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Lillith Blackheart
True Core
   |
Posted - 2006.09.13 01:00:00 -
[1]
One hundred years.
It has been almost a century since the Sansha Kuvakei's utopian dream for the future of humanity was realized and the nation on which it was founded sprang to life around him. The Promised Land was a haven of technological progress and peaceful development for billions of people who were tired of the social injustice and political corruption in their homelands. People of all races and nationalities prospered in the fruits of His guidance and contributed as equals towards the common good. Sansha's dream was personified in all within the Promised Land, and though it seemed as though the future was bright for His loyal subjects, forces conspired against them and plotted their destruction.
Led by the meddlesome Federation, the four great nations; jealous of His dream and fearful of losing control of their people, led an invasion force to erradicate the Promised Land and the nation on which it was built. Even in His death, Sansha Kuvakei managed to unite humanity with a common purpose, though His legacy will always be remembered by His loyal followers as a catalyst for visionary thinking and purposeful creation. While the jealous nation destroyers continue to spread lies and horrific fairy tales to frighten troublesome adolescents to this day, the remnants of His dream continue to fight the heinous injustice stricken upon its people. Do not be fooled by the propaganda of these dogmatic tyrants, fear is their instrument of control and a carefully constructed web of lies designed to propogate this injustice in how they defame His legacy.
Yet the dream lives on.
In Sansha's name, corporations thrive where His utopian dream had once flourished and faithful followers unite to rebuild the Nation's former glory. Much to the chagrin of the jealous nation states, servants of Kuvakei have sought to rebuild the Promised Land and restore what was once a prosperous region of space, now left desolate at the hands of envious detractors and corrupt opportunists. True Core stands proudly as one of His defenders, sympathetic to the dream of Sansha and loyal to the Nation its employees seek to rebuild.
However, the path to restoration and vindication is a long and arduous route with many obstacles yet to be overcome. To those who realize His vision and sympathize with the cause of the Nation, we ask you to stand and be recognized and help rebuild the Promised Land to its former grandeur. To those who live dissatisfied with your lives and unhappy with the corruption of the Conclave of jealous nation-states that conspire against their own, join us and realize His vision to help build something greater. Give new meaning to your lives by helping Sansha Kuvakei's dream for a utopian state and prosper in a region destined for His chosen. Be a part of the progression of humanity and a vision for future nations to aspire to, and help defend its peaceful citizens from the jealous detractors it is destined to attract.
As for those who conspire against the Nation, be prepared to suffer a reckoning long overdue for past and present transgressions against His chosen. The crimes against the Nation committed against its people almost a century ago have and will not be forgotten, and there will come a day when His people will triumph in vindication as the dream of the Promised Land is reborn. Consider yourself warned criminals of the Angel Cartel, you are not welcome in the Promised Land and you will be removed at the first available opportunity.
Sansha be praised, and in Kuvakei's name we arise.
Lillith "Blackheart",
True Core
Sansha's Nation
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IzzyChan
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 01:03:00 -
[2]
Finally! It's go time! \o/
--------------------
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Dust Angel
True Core
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Posted - 2006.09.13 01:13:00 -
[3]
For too long we have stood silently protecting the Remanents! To Arms my bretheren!
_____________________________________
Stressed out with empire politics?
Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
|
Krychton
Amarr
Blood Inquisition
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Posted - 2006.09.13 03:21:00 -
[4]
Good Luck!
----
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 04:13:00 -
[5]
I thought the drones of Sansha did not speak, yet you are all so very loud. You preach about Sansha like the Amarr would their God, only Sansha was quite mortal, and is quite dead.
Besides, aren't the remains of the Nation busy fighting with the Angel Cartel?
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus
I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour  - Immy
Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath |
Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 04:51:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
I thought the drones of Sansha did not speak, yet you are all so very loud.
Maybe your ideas about the Nation aren't particularly well founded?
I mean seriously, what do you really KNOW about it? Have you ever been there? I certainly haven't...
--------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans
Nik = win. Period.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy |
Dust Angel
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 04:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
I thought the drones of Sansha did not speak, yet you are all so very loud. You preach about Sansha like the Amarr would their God, only Sansha was quite mortal, and is quite dead.
Besides, aren't the remains of the Nation busy fighting with the Angel Cartel?
_____________________________________
Stressed out with empire politics?
Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
|
Daryl Xero
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 05:12:00 -
[8]
*sigh* Do you have any idea how much paperwork this is going to create?
*starts sifting through today's intelligence reports*
...
...
...damn it, couldn't Sansha send in the clones next month when I'd be on vacation and someone else could handle this nonsense...
What doesn't kill you defines you. |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 05:33:00 -
[9]
You all make the common misunderstanding brought to you exactly by the propaganda of which I previously spoke by suspecting that all those who live within the Promised Lands are mindless zombies. The Trues are few and far between. Not all combatants that work in and for the Nation are Trues. No more than everyone in the Empire is a slave.
At least Commander Nuvolari is open-minded and wise enough in the way of life to understand that he is not one to speak of how life in the Promised Lands truly is.
Come. Visit and see for yourself. You may well understand why Sansha Kuvakei's dream is more than your governments are willing to allow you to hear.
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 06:34:00 -
[10]
I've seen the decayed stations where the busiest are still less active than even the least-used Stations of the state.
I've seen the zombified slaveships, patrolling an empire that was wiped out decades ago, attacking all they see.
The most active parts of 'the nation', are infrastructure created by pod-pilot organizations, or attempts at resettlement of the areas. The 'promised land' I've seen, in dozens of systems, looked quite barren of intelligent life. Just lots of drones, working for a master who has long been dead.
Perhaps your 'promised land' is something you see in settlements that are hidden so that they do not draw too much attention from forces that could wipe them out. However the last time I flew through those areas, I saw nothing to suggest Sansha's Nation was more than a decaying thing of the past.
Pardon me for not seeing you as a drone, Dust Angel, tell me, how have you 'advanced' compared to all the other pod pilots? Other than having your free will replaced with your 'devotion'.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus
I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy
Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Terra Incognita
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 07:31:00 -
[11]
Well written! I'll give you that.
How true? Well, guess each of us has to find that out by ourselves.
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Sansha's Speaker
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Posted - 2006.09.13 13:35:00 -
[12]
We are watching.
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IzzyChan
True Core
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Posted - 2006.09.13 13:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: IzzyChan on 13/09/2006 13:58:39
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
However the last time I flew through those areas, I saw nothing to suggest Sansha's Nation was more than a decaying thing of the past.
The last time? Must have been some time ago. Obviously you need to take another trip. The nation is reviving. It's back, we're back.
--------------------
|
Idaeus
Gallente
Earned In Blood
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 14:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
I've seen the decayed stations where the busiest are still less active than even the least-used Stations of the state.
I've seen the zombified slaveships, patrolling an empire that was wiped out decades ago, attacking all they see.
The most active parts of 'the nation', are infrastructure created by pod-pilot organizations, or attempts at resettlement of the areas. The 'promised land' I've seen, in dozens of systems, looked quite barren of intelligent life. Just lots of drones, working for a master who has long been dead.
Perhaps your 'promised land' is something you see in settlements that are hidden so that they do not draw too much attention from forces that could wipe them out. However the last time I flew through those areas, I saw nothing to suggest Sansha's Nation was more than a decaying thing of the past.
Pardon me for not seeing you as a drone, Dust Angel, tell me, how have you 'advanced' compared to all the other pod pilots? Other than having your free will replaced with your 'devotion'.
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.
I don't support the Nation, but neither do I oppose it. For what right do I have to oppose another man's idea, another man's dream? I will simply live and let live.
+IOI? |
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Minmatar
Blood Inquisition
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 14:41:00 -
[15]
I've never been a big fan of True Power - They're kinda freeky, even the high-ups. True Creations are fairly nice, once you speak to the PR staff. The lower tiers of staff appear to be same-old-same-old...
True Core will always be friends of Blood Inquisition, however. As the Nation works alongside the Covenant, we too honour this friendship and return it with True Core.
Good luck, girls.
~~~~~
|
Grifter Treysik
Caldari
Caldar Mercenary Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.13 16:55:00 -
[16]
Well Ms Blackheart, it's been awhile since I've seen you. I have been away on extended planetside duties. However, I am returning very shortly.
I would like to wish you and your comrades the best of luck. Perhaps I'll take a venture there, just to see how things are progressing within the Promised Land.
Be well and fly safe.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Vendrin
Caldari
APEX Unlimited
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 18:01:00 -
[17]
I pity you Lillith.
_____________________________________
Need help in Caldari Space? Join channel CCDF to give or recieve it. |
Kara Ineshi
Caldari
Ineshi Express Delivery
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 18:01:00 -
[18]
Those Sansha people give me the creeps. Well, the one or two that I've encountered so far, anyway. It also puzzles me how a Caldari citizen could join them - it seems so disloyal. I'm guessing that they have been ostracised by friends and family for committing some kind of disgusting perversion and have nowhere to go. Then they get sucked into the first cult that gives them a sense of belonging. I should feel some kind of pity I suppose, but I'm sorry to say that all I can feel is disgust.
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Lillith Blackheart
True Core
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Posted - 2006.09.13 18:38:00 -
[19]
Decayed stations? Zombified slaveships? Barren of intelligent life? How much time have you spent in the Promised Land, Mr. Zenobia? Flying through? Passing by? You miss, apparently, the multitude of stations throughout Catch, and Stain, and even further south. You miss the strength of True Power and the research stations of True Creations. You miss the people... the citizens of the lands that populate those stations and our regions.
Apparently, Mr. Zenobia, you either do not pay attention or have not spent much time here.
Mr. Valka, it is all True. I only speak Truth. You are always welcome to take a look and see what truly is within our borders. Judge for yourself whether you feel my words are Truth or fiction.
Disloyal, Ms. Ineshi? What do you know of loyalty? What do you know of the State you have so long grown to follow? Are you aware that there are various entities within the State itself that have ties with our work? That still continue to fund and research within our borders? Are you aware that we came from the State and moved to the Promised Land as it upheld the Truth and Ideals that the State only claims to? You speak of loyalty, yet show no wisdom or understanding of the fact that your viewpoint may not be correct. You have fallen prety to the propaganda of the masses without even bothering to think about what it is I, and others here, have said.
I do not need your pity. It is all of you that are in need. War is blooming on the horizon. Not just betwixt the Nation and the Cartel, but betwixt the Empires themselves. Over what? Do any of you truly know or care? Or are you just happen to shoot at each other for no reason other than access to a few more rocks?
That is deserving of pity. Not the want and hope to make more out of the galaxy than it is.
|
Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2006.09.13 18:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 13/09/2006 18:38:54
Recruitment works better when you proposes something other than vuage "we will rise and be almighty!"
What is it you plan to do to rebuild and strengthen the nation? what can you offer pilots who would join you? Besides a mind wipe.
Do you have free access to Stain? Who are your enemies, will you be warring them? Trying to take over their territory? what is it you actually do?
also numbers, is your movement new and thus small? do you have the numbers to actually do more than just pirate here and there? Are you planning to build up to that? Can you challenge the supporters of the Cartel?
Is there advancement possibilities with in your organization? Do you have organization or is your corp just a club for people to hang out and wait for the mind wipe?
nice bit of rhetoric you posted but Pod Pilots are a high caliber commodity in this cluster. They are powerful and can command massive vessels and make huge volumes of isk. These captains of industry need something to call to them. Maybe even just a quick history of Sansha would help. I know almost nothing about them except my Munin is really good at blowing them up, and when they invade Khanid space it can almost nap while i kill their zombie ships.
Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think.
|
Takitoo
Ebon Phoenix
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 19:25:00 -
[21]
Come on Bliss, even you can figure out what these "Sanshas" do.
Sit in stain, NAP'd with everyone around them and run missions for their little entity until they have iskies to burn. Then they make short little stints around the outlying zero zero space breaking the laws there, "pirating". (Can you really be a "pirate" in lawless space ?)
Then they go fix their security ratings and their wallets by either running more missions or shooting any legitimate pirate ships, maybe even their own.
No big difference from any other deepspace alliance. They just have a catchy name and a few people who are good with PR.
___________________________
*snip* Inappropriate link removed- Tirg
Aww. No more funny. |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 19:44:00 -
[22]
Not surprising that you shoot your mouth off but know absolutely nothing, Helena. We aren't NAP'd to anyone around us. The closest people we have a NAP to, save for when the Blooders are in town, live three constellations away.
Nice try though, I'm glad that you still haven't learned when to keep your mouth shut.
Mr. Bliss. Who is to say that this was intended for recruitment? That is all that I need to reply to you with.
|
Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 19:54:00 -
[23]
Do you true core people live in stain? See more ASCN and AAA pilots then you lot.
In rust we trust!!! |
Leon 026
Caldari
Blood Inquisition
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 20:04:00 -
[24]
I wish our neighbors luck in their endeavors and future conflict.
-------------------------------
[ 2006.06.22 04:28:01 ] Leon 026 > My Crow dances like she's on ecstasy |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 21:05:00 -
[25]
Yes, we live within Stain. I do not see as many AAA vessels as you in my neck of the woods, as most of them live throughout Catch that I am aware of, save for small pieces that pass our skies. I also see a great deal of ASCN, much to my chagrin, and we do our best to keep them out, with varying levels of success.
We are there, we are not as large as many others, but what we do not have in numbers we do tend to make up for in tenacity.
|
Cmdr Baxter
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 21:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cmdr Baxter on 13/09/2006 21:56:03
.... Right .... Interesting.
So you claim to be peacefully engaged in the restoration of the nation built by Sansha Kuvakei, eh? Pray tell, then, why your drones are illegally present within the borders of the Caldari State.
I was shot at, I might add, by no less than eleven of those drones in an incident last week. Based on their overtly hostile action, plus the imminent danger that they posed to neighboring commerce and State infrastructure, I felt the need to exercise an appropriate response, which is why there are a number of frigates now missing from True Power's roster.
A word of advice, if I may. Double-talk may be fine for political circles, but it's the equivalent of playing with a Havoc missile: you'll get burned in the end.
Commanding Officer
S.W.V. Aurora
S.W.S. Syrene |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 22:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Mr. Valka, it is all True. I only speak Truth. You are always welcome to take a look and see what truly is within our borders. Judge for yourself whether you feel my words are Truth or fiction.
Disloyal, Ms. Ineshi? What do you know of loyalty?
I do not need your pity. It is all of you that are in need. War is blooming on the horizon. Not just betwixt the Nation and the Cartel, but betwixt the Empires themselves. Over what? Do any of you truly know or care? Or are you just happen to shoot at each other for no reason other than access to a few more rocks?
That is deserving of pity. Not the want and hope to make more out of the galaxy than it is.
Truth is like a light within a well cut diamond. We see only a limited number at best of these different surfaces reflecting varying harmonic frequencies of this light, and frankly you and noone else (including me that is) has not the slightest clue of what TRUTH really is. So before you come here proclaiming the TRUTH is within your nation, i think it should be wise to think first of the choices you have made too. And how these choices limit your vision too.
Your Promised Land sounds to my ears like a big torture room where free will and human soul is sacrificed to the appetites of a madman long gone. That is my TRUTH.
As for loyalty i think you should not speak, since right now you have no choice but to stay loyal to your illusion of freedom, since if you ever dare to leave it then you will find yourself unable to sustain your life without the illegal substances and techniques that your people depend upon. Loyalty is about a choice that is being made everyday and you have lost that choice.
I have no grudge against you or your nation. The space is big enough for all of us to live within. Just stay in your side and don't come to ours to materialize your dubious plans (as i have lately witnessed twice, and i put a stop to that).
As for the wars either you know nothing and throw arrows in the dark hoping to hit something or you know something that noone does. Since the future is still dark and hidden from us and war is still not a reality.
And pity is something you don't deserve since you made your choices and i hope you are feeling ok with them. If you don't then i pity you, if you do i don't care about you.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 22:33:00 -
[28]
What the devil are you talking about? I think you have Sansha's Nation confused with the Amarr Empire and Vitoc, as the only thing holding me to Sansha's Nation is the fact that I feel that Kuvakei's dream is worth fighting for.
If I so chose to leave, I could, though that would make me no better than any Federation or State ninny who comes and goes where the winds blow them.
Perhaps you are confused? Mayhap you want another go at outpouring your ideas as to what Truth is? For it is fairly obviously you have minced nations together and confuse what the Amarrians do and what those of us within the Promised Lands of Sansha's Nation do.
As for the State. . . when the State stops meddling in the affairs of the Nation, the Nation will do likewise. Not all vessels you find in State space are there with violent intent.
...but that is a story for a later date, I think.
|
Cmdr Baxter
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.09.13 23:44:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cmdr Baxter on 13/09/2006 23:49:47
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
As for the State. . . when the State stops meddling in the affairs of the Nation, the Nation will do likewise. Not all vessels you find in State space are there with violent intent.
...but that is a story for a later date, I think.
The Caldari State does not "meddle" in the affairs of its neighbors, let alone go yammering about our failures across all of GalNet. When we do something, we do it right. We don't wait for 100+ years to fix it.
Stop confusing us for True Power. Maybe your programming needs a tune-up?
Commanding Officer
S.W.V. Aurora
S.W.S. Syrene |
Tomahawk Bliss
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 04:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Mr. Bliss. Who is to say that this was intended for recruitment? That is all that I need to reply to you with.
fair enough, but IÆm not the only one who would have these questions. Learning about what you do and offer would be part of a growing movement, or any movement.
not knowing anything about Sansha all I can assume is what is seen.
You say you live in my old homeland and that the nation is alive there? It has been years since I lived in Stain allied with the Ministry of Amarr Secret Service and in that time a lot would have had to happen to make it a populous region full of Sansha "life". Maybe the Nation has awakened but when i was there it was stone cold dead.
So if you don't seek recruits then why croon here at all? is Sansha given to seeking attention? I think not. So I assumed you had a purpose here.
pray enlighten me oh mistress of the wastelands, I will listen if for no more than the nostalgia of my old haunts.
Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think.
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 05:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
What the devil are you talking about? I think you have Sansha's Nation confused with the Amarr Empire and Vitoc, as the only thing holding me to Sansha's Nation is the fact that I feel that Kuvakei's dream is worth fighting for.
I haven't confused anything. You i think is confusing the dreams of Kuvakei with the ideals of Federation. Your people are subjects to illegal testing and even though you might have escaped that horrible state of cyborgs, you tend to forget the rest of your nations people.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
If I so chose to leave, I could, though that would make me no better than any Federation or State ninny who comes and goes where the winds blow them.
You generalize things again too much. And still you don't take into account the fact that you forget the rest of your nations people that have been canibilized, by your hero dreams.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Perhaps you are confused? Mayhap you want another go at outpouring your ideas as to what Truth is? For it is fairly obviously you have minced nations together and confuse what the Amarrians do and what those of us within the Promised Lands of Sansha's Nation do.
Perhaps i burned your processor?
I was talking in general. You spoke of the TRUTH, i just informed your binary brain that truth is a very relative fact and depends entirelly on the point of view. I hope this one is easier to process. And yes that goes for everyone in every faction for every situation.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
As for the State. . . when the State stops meddling in the affairs of the Nation, the Nation will do likewise. Not all vessels you find in State space are there with violent intent.
...but that is a story for a later date, I think.
You don't speak anything though for your nations activities in the Federation space, which lead us to assume that all vessels of Sansha in the Federation have violent intents. And these intents will be met with the fitting response.
As i said before you are not that welcomed in Federation space due to the beliefs and practices your nation follows, so i suggest stay out of it.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 06:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Your people are subjects to illegal testing
Illegal? Under whose laws, the Federation?
When will you people learn that snaileater laws don't apply to the whole galaxy?
--------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans
Nik = win. Period.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Terra Incognita
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 10:20:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Victor Valka on 14/09/2006 10:20:07
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Mr. Valka, it is all True. I only speak Truth. You are always welcome to take a look and see what truly is within our borders. Judge for yourself whether you feel my words are Truth or fiction.
Easy on the Truth, Ms. Blackheart.
Truth and Reality are highly subjective things, governed by images painted onto our sub- and consciousness by the surrounding superstructure that is the Universe. Each image is unique.
Contemplate this. Everyone who pleases and not Ms. Blackheart exclusively.
That said.
Your invitation is welcome and accepted. I plan to make use of it. Time and conditions permitting. 
|
Evelyn Lavi
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 10:59:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Evelyn Lavi on 14/09/2006 10:59:27
I am unsure I am going the right way about this, but I have some scholarly interest in True Core. How might an open-minded and industrious Deteis go about seeing the Promised Land, and what Sansha's Nation has become a century later?
In other words, how might I join True Core?
Yes, I'm very serious.
If discretion is necessary, my EVEmail is open.
|
IzzyChan
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 13:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Evelyn Lavi
Edited by: Evelyn Lavi on 14/09/2006 10:59:27
I am unsure I am going the right way about this, but I have some scholarly interest in True Core. How might an open-minded and industrious Deteis go about seeing the Promised Land, and what Sansha's Nation has become a century later?
In other words, how might I join True Core?
Yes, I'm very serious.
If discretion is necessary, my EVEmail is open.
If you want to know more about the Core, you wanna talk to Pale Scale or Lillith.
--------------------
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 21:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Your people are subjects to illegal testing
Illegal? Under whose laws, the Federation?
When will you people learn that snaileater laws don't apply to the whole galaxy?
Well i don't hold myself to that illusion Mr Nikolai. I know that each nation has its own laws very well.
But the experiments of Kuvakei were banned from all the the major nations (that is Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr) if you recall, due to the danger they imposed on the subjects and the outcomes of certain experiments.
I don't care if these still happen in the Sanshas nation, it's their nation and they can do as they please within it. But it should remain there and not spread outside their borders.
As for snail i despise them myself and i don't touch the damn things. In fact i barely stand the sight of them on the table i eat. So you will find me agree there with you that thankfully this custom (and not law) is not that widespread in other nations.
I hope i have clarified this.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.14 23:47:00 -
[37]
I am confusing nothing. What you are confused on is what the Nation stands for and what it does. There is no illegal testing done on the populace. Think of this. What do you do with your criminals? Your less desireables that can not exist within society as a whole? You stick them in cages? Force the populace as a whole to pay for the existance of these people that will never contribute to your societies and will never see the light of day again? Force them to spend their own money on keeping this people well fed, with entertainment and exercise? I have seen the interior of your prisons. I have seen the education that your criminals can get that many of your citizens can't afford, in part for paying for these less desireables to continue living and have access to that which they do not.
We simply find a better use for them.
I have not generalized at all, I have been forthcoming with what happens within our borders. I have been clear as to what it is we do. You are the one throwing about generalizations as to what the Nation stands for, the common generalizations that your very government puts forth constantly to discredit the dream that guides and builds the Promised Land, and continues to draw people to our fold.
The relativity of one's reality is not the topic that is being discussed. What I am telling you is that your truth is incorrect and uninformed. Though Truth is relative, the one with the more factual information is the one with the more factual Truth.
You speak based entirely on heresy.
I speak based entirely on experience and observation.
You are also correct, I spoke nothing of the Nation's presence in the Federation.
That said, do look me up Mr. Valka, I will be more than happy to address any concerns you may have, and Ms. Lavi, either we will be in touch personally or I shall make a point to have one of my most trusted employees contact you if I am unable at the time.
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 03:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
I am confusing nothing. What you are confused on is what the Nation stands for and what it does. There is no illegal testing done on the populace. Think of this. What do you do with your criminals? Your less desireables that can not exist within society as a whole? You stick them in cages? Force the populace as a whole to pay for the existance of these people that will never contribute to your societies and will never see the light of day again? Force them to spend their own money on keeping this people well fed, with entertainment and exercise? I have seen the interior of your prisons. I have seen the education that your criminals can get that many of your citizens can't afford, in part for paying for these less desireables to continue living and have access to that which they do not.
We simply find a better use for them.
So how this corresponds to your initial communication Ms Blackheart?
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
The Promised Land was a haven of technological progress and peaceful development for billions of people who were tired of the social injustice and political corruption in their homelands. People of all races and nationalities prospered in the fruits of His guidance and contributed as equals towards the common good.
The social injustice that you claim that is vanished from your nation, suddenly reappears giving the criminals a cruel fate instead of a second chance?
I prefer our way, where our money are spent on keeping them in check and providing an education that will at least provide a chance no matter how slim to better themselves. You speak of these people like they are animals. And treat them like expendable equipment. And i suppose you would expect from the rest of your nation to treat you likewise should you take a wrong step by mistake?
As i see you have experienced our system and you have lived to tell the tale. Too bad this expensive education was not put to good use, but at least you got one and did not die or worse, live like a zombie in the process. Something you can't claim for the prisoners of your nation i see.
Free will and clearly redemption is not existant in your nation and you know it very well despite the effort you put to hide it.
As for the illegal part, you are partly right. The experiments your scientists conduct on these poor souls are legal within your nation AND illegal in the rest of the universe.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
I have not generalized at all, I have been forthcoming with what happens within our borders. I have been clear as to what it is we do. You are the one throwing about generalizations as to what the Nation stands for, the common generalizations that your very government puts forth constantly to discredit the dream that guides and builds the Promised Land, and continues to draw people to our fold.
What happens in your nation? Apart from you the pod pilot community, who were spared the dreadfull fate of becoming mindless cyborgs blindly following orders, what of the rest population?
You haven't answered this and you continued speaking about you. So is the nation consisting only of pod pilots? I think not. But then again the mindless cyborgs aren't counted as population by your standards i see.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
The relativity of one's reality is not the topic that is being discussed. What I am telling you is that your truth is incorrect and uninformed. Though Truth is relative, the one with the more factual information is the one with the more factual Truth.
You speak based entirely on heresy.
I speak based entirely on experience and observation.
I speak on what i see too. I have seen footage of your society at work, then i destroyed it, because it was a hideous thing to see people like that. I have seen your outposts within the Federation and destroyed them and the people within it because i could live knowing that i let people (ex tbh) live like this
{cont.}
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 03:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
The relativity of one's reality is not the topic that is being discussed. What I am telling you is that your truth is incorrect and uninformed. Though Truth is relative, the one with the more factual information is the one with the more factual Truth.
You speak based entirely on heresy.
I speak based entirely on experience and observation.
You are also correct, I spoke nothing of the Nation's presence in the Federation.
As some people icluding me told you before TRUTH is relative to the subject witnessing and expressing it. So i can honestly tell you that my truth is more factual than yours in my eyes.
But i am not going to impose that on the others because that would mean social injustice with a touch of dictatorship from my part. Imagine what your nation is trying to become by the previous sentence.
So i also presumed correct on the purposes of your nations subjects within our borders? If yes then you are toying with the fire. We did it once and sure as hell we can do it again. So i think you should review your goals on that. Unless of course you are looking to self destruct.
That said i tell you again i totally respect your choice to live as you do. But that should not affect those that do not wish to live as you do. The moment you break this boundary, is the moment you become a threat, and as such you and Sanshas nation will be treated.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 04:25:00 -
[40]
Are you a fool or do you simply not listen to everything I say and instead form your own conclusions based on half-thoughts instead of the entire thing?
Did you completely neglect to notice I was specifically talking about those inmates that you imprison for the remainder of their natural lives. You are forced to pay for them to live as they please and contribute nothing to society. We simply give them the ability to repay society for that which society has given them.
No more, and no less.
You claim it is not giving them a second chance? I claim it is giving them the chance they would have, and had, dwindled on their own. The chance to provide for society, which is something anyone and everyone should strive for. Certainly, live for yourself, but in a way that you give back to society for the blessing society gives you in the allowance to do just that.
I do not find it surprising that a Gallente does not understand the concept of repaying society for what society offers you. That is something a Caldari would understand, and I suspect it will be well beyond your grasp.
Apart from the pod-pilot community the vast majority of citizens of the Nation are your average person. No implants, nothing strange. They go about their business doing as they please, a true Utopian state, where anyone can pursue their dreams as they see fit. The Drones are a very small portion of the denizens of the Promised Lands, and those who have achieved the level of the Speaker, amongst other Trues, have matched a level of a devotion to the Nation that is unheard of outside of our borders.
You may see it as sacrifice, many do not. A matter of perspective, I would say.
The point of fact is that the Drones are not citizens. They are drones. The Trues are the elite. They are a step above all others. For instance, the Speaker. When he speaks, those within the Promised Land listen.
You speak on what you are shown. What you are shown is heresay. You have not seen anything but what they have allowed you to see. I can not continue to repeat this sentiment any longer. You are, at this point, being purposefully obtuse.
As for our presence in the Federation's borders. I still have not addressed it, and I have no intention to.
It is not my place to do so.
|
Angel Vengen
Caldari
Caldar Mercenary Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 05:06:00 -
[41]
Well Lillith, I am glad to see you are still capable of using words as weapons to defend yourself. Good show, and as Grifter said, congratulations and good luck.
If you guys ever need any help look us up, allthough Im not to sure Dust Angel will allow it. See you around.
-Angel Vengen
Master Gunnery Sergeant
Originally by: Nyxus
Yes but the Apoc is kind of like a mullet - business in the front, party in the back.
|
Cmdr Baxter
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 05:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Cmdr Baxter on 15/09/2006 05:36:32
Anyone associated with Sansha's Nation always has been, and always will be, associated with that "misguided" individual named Sansha Kuvakei.
I find the revelation of the continued existence of his corrupted form of god-worship, through the machinery currently suspected to be present aboard True Core and True Power craft, to be distasteful.
However, if it promotes law, stability, and order, especially among hardened criminals in what is one of the sector's most dangerous regions, then so be it. I have no objections based on that assumption.
As far as the presence of Sansha's Nation craft inside the State, and now a report of them being inside the Federation borders, is concerned, I cannot quite overlook that. To me, it smacks of diplomatic and military irresponsibility of the highest degree.
Commanding Officer
S.W.V. Aurora
S.W.S. Syrene |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Terra Incognita
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 06:40:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
The Promised Land was a haven of technological progress and peaceful development for billions of people who were tired of the social injustice and political corruption in their homelands. People of all races and nationalities prospered in the fruits of His guidance and contributed as equals towards the common good.
The social injustice that you claim that is vanished from your nation, suddenly reappears giving the criminals a cruel fate instead of a second chance?
I prefer our way, where our money are spent on keeping them in check and providing an education that will at least provide a chance no matter how slim to better themselves. You speak of these people like they are animals. And treat them like expendable equipment. And i suppose you would expect from the rest of your nation to treat you likewise should you take a wrong step by mistake?
As i see you have experienced our system and you have lived to tell the tale. Too bad this expensive education was not put to good use, but at least you got one and did not die or worse, live like a zombie in the process. Something you can't claim for the prisoners of your nation i see.
Free will and clearly redemption is not existant in your nation and you know it very well despite the effort you put to hide it.
It is social injustice when the tax money of loyal citizens is spent on supporting the future of some criminal when there are millions of people in your beloved Federation who spend their lives in poverty.
Do you think that a criminal should be of higher priority then a loyal citizen? Do you honestly believe that your tax money should be spent on sponsoring the future of criminals instead of educational and health and welfare systems?
While solutions described by Ms. Blackheart are extreme, this, I believe, is the case where ends justify the means.
|
Wanoah
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 11:18:00 -
[44]
Do not be seduced by this woman's lies.
Sansha perpetrated terrible crimes against the Minmatar people and against humanity in general. Sansha and his followers disgusted people across the galaxy to such an extent, that the empires were united in their desire to crush the Nation. Something that binds Caldari with Gallente and Minmatar with Amarrain to a common goal has to be pretty persuasive, no?
|
Yuki Li
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Pure.
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 11:33:00 -
[45]
What i see is many words from many sides but as yet no action.
I'll be watching for the fireworks, should they ever arrive.
Website / Forums / Recruiting |
Idaeus
Gallente
Earned In Blood
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 13:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wanoah
Do not be seduced by this woman's lies.
Why not? Indulge yourself in the role of seductee, it's good medicine.
Besides, I've always had a weakness for an articulate woman.
+IOI? |
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Minmatar
Blood Inquisition
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 14:30:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Yuki Li
What i see is many words from many sides but as yet no action.
I'll be watching for the fireworks, should they ever arrive.
You're a regular gun-bunny, Yuki. Doesn't the philosophical debate of the prodigal outcast vs. concept society strike you as exciting as the average battle?
This debate is incredibly interesting, however, my ethical standards are probably a lot more questionable than most, however both sides are proving particularly interesting and well argued.
Hmm, how to support lifetime imprisonment? The Amarr were probably the worst at life imprisonment, eh Wanoah?
~~~~~
|
Darina Rea
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 21:06:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Wanoah
Do not be seduced by this woman's lies.
Sansha perpetrated terrible crimes against the Minmatar people and against humanity in general. Sansha and his followers disgusted people across the galaxy to such an extent, that the empires were united in their desire to crush the Nation. Something that binds Caldari with Gallente and Minmatar with Amarrain to a common goal has to be pretty persuasive, no?
Hardly, what 'binded' the Epmires together was greed and fear. The Minmatar and Gallente feared what they couldn't understand and what was rapidly becoming a true Empire as powerfull as themselves. The Amarr and Caldari just jumped the bandwagon when the other 2 attacked for the Nations superior techonology.
|
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
Tsurokigaarai
Kimotoro Directive
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 21:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Darina Rea
Hardly, what 'binded' the Empires together was greed and fear. The Minmatar and Gallente feared what they couldn't understand and what was rapidly becoming a true Empire as powerfull as themselves. The Amarr and Caldari just jumped the bandwagon when the other 2 attacked for the Nations superior techonology.
You became a threat *and* had technology they wanted. Too bad even at the zenith of your might there was still nothing you could do.
------------------
CEO of TKI
|
Kodan Ajex
Gallente
Federal Ranger Corp
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 21:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Your people are subjects to illegal testing
Illegal? Under whose laws, the Federation?
When will you people learn that snaileater laws don't apply to the whole galaxy?
Nikolai
It took all 4 Empires to bring them down last time not just the so called snail-eaters.
The State also outlawed Sansha's Nation, and the Caldari Navy was involved in their defeat.
It's nice to see their sacrafice in the war taken so lightly by someone who calls himself a defender of the state, but then again your more intrested in Fed bashing.
"The truest measure of a society is how it treats its elderly, its pets, and its prisoners."
|
Lillith Blackheart
True Core
|
Posted - 2006.09.15 22:27:00 -
[51]
As the Gallente fellow stated, Mr. Wassenar, it took the combined might of four empires engaging in a rather protracted war against the Nation to take it down.
We will only return stronger from it, more heavily united in a singular purpose to make the 'verse better for all.
You saw us as a threat? We did not attack you. You attacked us. Who was truly the threat there?
Mr. Ajex, your history books are shadowed by the "rule of the victor". It neglects to mention that the State only joined in the war out of necessity, as the Federation threatened to boycott all Caldari goods, which would have been most detrimental to the Caldari economy. Therefore they made the only logical choice and turned their backs upon their long standing allies who shared our Technology with them due to research grants and agreements in order to save their fledgling nation from economic extinction.
The Amarrians, finding themselves ostracized from the other major powers, did what they must and also turned their backs upon their long standing allies to support their longstanding enemies in the war for political reasons.
Perhaps you would do well to read the entire history, and not just listen to the fables that your Federation tells of us.
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.16 00:00:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Are you a fool or do you simply not listen to everything I say and instead form your own conclusions based on half-thoughts instead of the entire thing?
Did you completely neglect to notice I was specifically talking about those inmates that you imprison for the remainder of their natural lives. You are forced to pay for them to live as they please and contribute nothing to society. We simply give them the ability to repay society for that which society has given them.
No more, and no less.
And you seem that you have not done your homework when you imply that sentence for life means untill death. The sentence ofr life is ranging from 25 years to 30+, and does not mean die in prison. But then again this comes from your foolishness to believe that everything is as in Sanshas Nation . Ahh i forgot you don't have sentence for life, you have torture for eternity. How fitting for this Utopia of yours.
I am choosing to pay for them being kept out of hurting someone, but i will not pay to have them used as subjects to horrid tests that will end in their torture for eternity or at best to their deaths. I am gladly paying for the slim chance that they will try and redeem themselves. I believe in the peoples capabilities and the power they have to suprise even themselves at the reforms they can put themselves. Obviously you and your people don't have faith in humans at all. Which makes you nothing more than a danger to the free will and choice.
You can hide it all you wish but your hero was nothing more than a powered hungered dictator, that would not have it any other way than his. That is why he chose the society of drones, because drones don't argue.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
You claim it is not giving them a second chance? I claim it is giving them the chance they would have, and had, dwindled on their own. The chance to provide for society, which is something anyone and everyone should strive for. Certainly, live for yourself, but in a way that you give back to society for the blessing society gives you in the allowance to do just that.
I do not find it surprising that a Gallente does not understand the concept of repaying society for what society offers you. That is something a Caldari would understand, and I suspect it will be well beyond your grasp.
You claim that you are giving them a second chance?
If that statement isn't at least laughable then i guess nothing is. You impose on them a solution that fits you, and you don't ask for their opinion. This is not a second chance since they don't have the chance to deny it either. It's pure dictatorship ways and that is what your, blinded by the lies of the speakers and the easy life you enjoy, brain (or should i say processor) fails to grasp.
That you are not the only one there. Truth has many aspects that depend upon the person. You fail to grasp the bigger picture of a society, by taking into account the parts that consist that society. How Kuvakei of you.
Gallente ways are not understood by you as i see. Repaying society for the benefits that are offered is a choice. Is a choice that is made conciously by every person. Not a forced upon decision. Even the Caldari know that. Their DNA is just better tuned to the positive answer of this calling due to their ethics, way of raising youth etc. Why haven't you seen Caldari pod pilots that do not serve their society? Haven't you seen Caldari prisoners? Haven't you seen Caldari misfits that do nothing for their society in the streets of their planets?
You fail to understand humans.
And you fail miserably to understand Gallente. Because if we did not try to make this society of ours better, thus repaying the benefits we reapped as youngs, we would not be here now. You again take specific examples and apply them to the general population.
{cont.}
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.16 00:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Apart from the pod-pilot community the vast majority of citizens of the Nation are your average person. No implants, nothing strange. They go about their business doing as they please, a true Utopian state, where anyone can pursue their dreams as they see fit. The Drones are a very small portion of the denizens of the Promised Lands, and those who have achieved the level of the Speaker, amongst other Trues, have matched a level of a devotion to the Nation that is unheard of outside of our borders.
You may see it as sacrifice, many do not. A matter of perspective, I would say.
I doubt sincerely the vast majority part. You may say what you wish but the Federation is not unaware of your progress and in fact i had access to some data that imply that the cyborgs are a good portion fo your population. As for those that have achieved the level of Speaker, do they really have any other choice than total devotion to what keeps them alive? Can they sustain their <<life>> if they oppose? You better answer this honestly.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
The point of fact is that the Drones are not citizens. They are drones. The Trues are the elite. They are a step above all others. For instance, the Speaker. When he speaks, those within the Promised Land listen.
You speak on what you are shown. What you are shown is heresay. You have not seen anything but what they have allowed you to see. I can not continue to repeat this sentiment any longer. You are, at this point, being purposefully obtuse.
The point of fact is that the Drones you speak of were citizens that were forced to become what they are now. So among the Drones you rule but then again that does not take any real skill or charisma to achieve right? And the Trues you speak of are nothing more than muppets being controlled by your leader. Mindless still, incapable to do anything else other than blindly obey. Wow some elite i see. Sorry but my perception of Elite is quite different and quite free, not something enslaved and incapable of doing anything else than follow and obey.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
As for our presence in the Federation's borders. I still have not addressed it, and I have no intention to.
It is not my place to do so.
I don't need your addressing to that issue. I have told you via this public communication the worries that have risen among the Federation Officials. It is not my place to do so either, but i am a free will person unlike you, and i can speak my concerns. I also must express the concerns of the rest of my society peacefully here, since that goes to serving my society interests at best (strange for a Gallente eh? )
You have been warned by peacefull means. Should you continue to try and build more outposts within Federation space, they will be met with a destructive force.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.16 00:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
As the Gallente fellow stated, Mr. Wassenar, it took the combined might of four empires engaging in a rather protracted war against the Nation to take it down.
We will only return stronger from it, more heavily united in a singular purpose to make the 'verse better for all.
You saw us as a threat? We did not attack you. You attacked us. Who was truly the threat there?
No it did not as your fellow citizen has pointed out. Tell your leaders that you have a problem of consistency in your history files.
Originally by: Darina Rea
Hardly, what 'binded' the Epmires together was greed and fear. The Minmatar and Gallente feared what they couldn't understand and what was rapidly becoming a true Empire as powerfull as themselves. The Amarr and Caldari just jumped the bandwagon when the other 2 attacked for the Nations superior techonology.
Fact is that what was going on within your nation was very well understood since it started within the Empires if of course you can remember or find at the appropiate history files.
The dangers though of these experiments were too big to be ignored. The impact on the people was horryfying. Kuvakei was a stubborn fool that only wanted to have it his way. He went on with these experiments knowing fully that his test subjects were just doomed.
Even the Jovians who were way ahead of all the empires in that research understood their mistake and criminalized it. Only too late and now they are paying a heavy toll indeed.
As for your <<technological advancements>> that were so desired by the empires. I wonder why they were never adopted. maybe because they were never wanted in the first place? Just wondering.
And of course you forget the fact that your nation was (and still is i fear) kidnapping innocent citizens to conduct your experiments upon them. So i guess YOU attacked us first.
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
Mr. Ajex, your history books are shadowed by the "rule of the victor". It neglects to mention that the State only joined in the war out of necessity, as the Federation threatened to boycott all Caldari goods, which would have been most detrimental to the Caldari economy. Therefore they made the only logical choice and turned their backs upon their long standing allies who shared our Technology with them due to research grants and agreements in order to save their fledgling nation from economic extinction.
The Amarrians, finding themselves ostracized from the other major powers, did what they must and also turned their backs upon their long standing allies to support their longstanding enemies in the war for political reasons.
Perhaps you would do well to read the entire history, and not just listen to the fables that your Federation tells of us.
You also better read the history files that are not tainted by your dictator Ms Blackheart. The research that was conducted by Kuvakei was not a breakthrough technology that he only had discovered. The rest of the developers though were not power hungry like he was. They stopped once they realised that the research tey were conducting was a road to a dead end for all Humans.
As for the history files and the rule of the victor, i can't stop laughing when i see this comment from a follower of a dictator. WE have tainted the history files and your dictator is feeding you the truth (read his point of view).
I wonder who is being fed fables here.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2006.09.16 01:17:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 16/09/2006 01:22:21
Originally by: Victor Valka
It is social injustice when the tax money of loyal citizens is spent on supporting the future of some criminal when there are millions of people in your beloved Federation who spend their lives in poverty.
Do you think that a criminal should be of higher priority then a loyal citizen? Do you honestly believe that your tax money should be spent on sponsoring the future of criminals instead of educational and health and welfare systems?
While solutions described by Ms. Blackheart are extreme, this, I believe, is the case where ends justify the means.
To address your concerns mr Valka i would like to remind you that this kind of people (criminals) is a reality in every empire. Now imagine that you are one of them. Would you accept or endorse the kind of solution that Ms Blackheart nations uses for these poor souls?
I wouldn't and i am certain that noone would.
As for the poor people, they are everywhere in the empires too sadly. To say that we are putting the criminals in such a horrible ordeal, just to save the money that the prisons need to perform their tasks is not plausible. Because the said experiments are in need of funds too, which will be absorbed by the money that are now unused by the non-existant prisons. So the poor people will get nothing again.
While you say that the end justifies the means, i want to ask you and everyone here, is that really so? Would you feel really proud that you used these solutions (not) to solve another problem? Would you sleep without nightmares at night? I would not be proud and frankly my conscience would not accept such a burden. Criminals are citizens too, and they deserve a fair trial, and a second chance to redeem themselves, just like poor people deserve a chance to fix their situation.
The current system is trying to do that, maybe not entirelly successfull but is a try that gives anyone a chance. Not denying that to some.
I would never ever force upon people a decision that would be so devastating on them. A decision that would not wish for myself. Think on this.
-------
Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Terra Incognita
|
Posted - 2006.09.16 11:26:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Victor Valka on 16/09/2006 11:26:51
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
To address your concerns mr Valka i would like to remind you that this kind of people (criminals) is a reality in every empire. Now imagine that you are one of them. Would you accept or endorse the kind of solution that Ms Blackheart nations uses for these poor souls?
I wouldn't and i am certain that noone would.
Equal justice for all.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
As for the poor people, they are everywhere in the empires too sadly. To say that we are putting the criminals in such a horrible ordeal, just to save the money that the prisons need to perform their tasks is not plausible. Because the said experiments are in need of funds too, which will be absorbed by the money that are now unused by the non-existant prisons. So the poor people will get nothing again.
What you say certainly has truth in it. However. I believe that long term beneficial effects would soon cancel out the short term difficulties.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
While you say that the end justifies the means, i want to ask you and everyone here, is that really so? Would you feel really proud that you used these solutions (not) to solve another problem? Would you sleep without nightmares at night? I would not be proud and frankly my conscience would not accept such a burden. Criminals are citizens too, and they deserve a fair trial, and a second chance to redeem themselves, just like poor people deserve a chance to fix their situation.
The current system is trying to do that, maybe not entirelly successfull but is a try that gives anyone a chance. Not denying that to some.
Difficult questions and moral grounds. A sweet allure in a deadly trap. I'll bite.
Since we are talking about justice here I think that giving someone a truly fair trial does require that the judge overlooks any and all moral grounds, considering only the facts with relevance to the case at hand. Criminals are not citizens. To be a citizen means to have rights through obligations and and one of those obligations is that one must allow for others to have the same rights. Criminals ignore this. Criminals take away the rights of others and with that lose their own. They should earn them back should the severity of the crime warrant it. Is it just when being a criminal in a prison is hundreds of times more pleasurable then being a citizen living in poverty?
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
I would never ever force upon people a decision that would be so devastating on them. A decision that would not wish for myself. Think on this.
It is unfair to all when the personal concern for self's well being of the one who writes the law comes first, before the concern for justice.
In conclusion, Ob'lontra, I would like to take a little step back and thank you for your time and agruments. This is interesting for me.
Thank you.
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Hekaton Keirez
Vindication Angels
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Posted - 2006.09.16 15:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Lillith Blackheart
CONCORD is likely one of the greatest entities holding you empire-bound persons back from your True potential.
A call to arms and not recruitment, yeah?
Good luck with that, Ms Blackheart. I'll keep my eyes on this little...debate.
Quote:
"There are two kinds of people in this world: those with loaded guns...and those who dig."
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Darina Rea
True Core
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Posted - 2006.09.16 22:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Gorion Wassenar
Originally by: Darina Rea
Hardly, what 'binded' the Empires together was greed and fear. The Minmatar and Gallente feared what they couldn't understand and what was rapidly becoming a true Empire as powerfull as themselves. The Amarr and Caldari just jumped the bandwagon when the other 2 attacked for the Nations superior techonology.
You became a threat *and* had technology they wanted. Too bad even at the zenith of your might there was still nothing you could do.
And so you serve an empire of greed and cowards. Truely a joy.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
No it did not as your fellow citizen has pointed out. Tell your leaders that you have a problem of consistency in your history files.
You should take your advice first. CONCORDs records itself state that it took all four empires to bring the Nation down on it's knees. Ofcourse those records also state that it was destroyed.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Fact is that what was going on within your nation was very well understood since it started within the Empires if of course you can remember or find at the appropiate history files.
The dangers though of these experiments were too big to be ignored. The impact on the people was horryfying. Kuvakei was a stubborn fool that only wanted to have it his way. He went on with these experiments knowing fully that his test subjects were just doomed.
Also fact is that all test subjects were provided by the Amarr and - unofficially - by the Caldari. And ofcourse I wouldn't be surprised if some 'corrupted' Gallente picked up and sold some of the thousands of poor in the Federation, nooone misses those anyway.
The empires feared the potental and only acted after the experiments produced a succesfull result. Which bring us to the next point.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
As for your <<technological advancements>> that were so desired by the empires. I wonder why they were never adopted. maybe because they were never wanted in the first place? Just wondering.
Maybe it was destroyed? Does your corporation let it top secret research laying out in the open for any smuck to come along and take it? Or do they have it laying secured in a safe with a self destruct on the content should the security be comprimized? I bet the latter.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
And of course you forget the fact that your nation was (and still is i fear) kidnapping innocent citizens to conduct your experiments upon them. So i guess YOU attacked us first.
Now this is some twisted logic. Let me help you out of this dream. As I already say, the test subjects were provided to the Nation. Then the Empires attacked. Ofcourse the Nation doesn't think to fondly of the aggressors as you would understand. Trespassing is on your own risk. As for raid into the Empires. They are getting what they deserve.
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Even the Jovians who were way ahead of all the empires in that research understood their mistake and criminalized it. Only too late and now they are paying a heavy toll indeed.
This bit puzzles me greatly. Jovians? What does the Jovian Disease have to do with this? It's a genetic disease.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.16 23:57:00 -
[59]
All this discussion of the opinions and desires of criminals is simply disgusting.
--------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans
Nik = win. Period.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.17 00:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
All this discussion of the opinions and desires of criminals is simply disgusting.
So is your pink hair...
Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com |
Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.17 02:13:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
All this discussion of the opinions and desires of criminals is simply disgusting.
So is your pink hair...
No worse than your giraffe neck.
--------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans
Nik = win. Period.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.17 02:36:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
All this discussion of the opinions and desires of criminals is simply disgusting.
So is your pink hair...
No worse than your giraffe neck.
I blame the photographer.
Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com |
Able Citizen
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.09.18 16:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Able Citizen on 18/09/2006 16:07:48
Ms. Blackheart,
I know that you and I have sparred on at least one other occasion on these very channels, but I must say that your words moved me.
The charge I accepted in joining Jericho Fraction was to free our pod-pilot brothers and sisters from the dogmatic memes of territorialism and imperialist squatters who believe that if they live within a sector of space that they may claim it as their own.
I, too, have seen the 'meddlesome Federation' for what it truly is; lip service to those of us that wish to transcend this present existence's inane and droning process. Our immortality brought to us by science will be a living death sentence if we are unable to transcend past the base human goals of generating income and fighting simply for conflict's sake.
I must admit that I had True Core and those supporters of the ideal of The Nation mis-characterized.
It appears to me that those who ape the policies of their chosen empire may never understand what you and I know from living on the frontier.
To me, the goal as stated in your initial communique is a noble one. Let these un-evolved mistfits continue deceiving themselves with terror tales told them in their youth.
I believe that our chosen paths are more alike than they are different, Lillith. I salute you.
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Nooey
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.19 04:11:00 -
[64]
It is the means at which you would both arrive to that same end Able, that is what seperates the two of you.
In any case, it was a nice bunch of words...
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