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**Punisher Analysis, CCP READ**

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Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:24:00 - [31] Originally by: Antodias Stacking penalty was needed, stopping the blobbing in fleet battles is not 'nerfing'. Where you even around when Tomb had the nerfbat? Yes ofcorse, after RMR blobs dissapeared didnt they? Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Kye Kenshin Oh yeh it was amazing when the only BS worth using was the 8 HSII gankageddon and only npcers fitted tanks. You're an idiot. TomB nerfed the gankageddon, how exactly am I an idiot? Silly fool. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Nebuli Stacking penalty and tanking changes were GOOD, and how is not nerfing NOS the final nail in Amarrs coffin? You make no sense. 1. Stacking penatly = end of amarrs options to either tank or gank. 2. Nos = cap warfare. Cap = Amarr advantage, or should I say 'should be'? Recruitment
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Nebuli Stacking penalty and tanking changes were GOOD, and how is not nerfing NOS the final nail in Amarrs coffin? You make no sense. 1. Stacking penatly = end of amarrs options to either tank or gank. 2. Nos = cap warfare. Cap = Amarr advantage, or should I say 'should be'? the only real nos boats that amarr have is the pilgrim and curse. If anything the nos nerf is going to hurt gallente drone boats more than amarr ships. In rust we trust!!!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Murukan the only real nos boats that amarr have is the pilgrim and curse. Yes, the ONLY Amarr ships that are top dogs. Quote: If anything the nos nerf is going to hurt gallente drone boats more than amarr ships. You mean nos/ecm domi? About time! Recruitment
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:38:00 - [36] in my eyes, the problem isnt any specific ship, but lasers themselves. The performance per fitting req is way off from the other guns right now, especially true after blaster changes and projectile no cap changes. so the punisher can fit the largest AC for same price as smallest lasers, put a damage mod on in place of fitting mod for larger lasers, and get similar damage from the ACs as the larger lasers, and use no cap so it can tank like a beast. Its no wonder the punisher in that vid posted above can take on 2 taranises and still kill 1 of them. Curse and pilgrim are really good, but they dont use lasers..... zealot is good, but thankfully only fits 4 lasers...so grid isnt as much of a problem, and good bonuses help alot arma is still decent, but can cap out just by firing its lasers... dont even get me started on the tech1 cruisers. best is probably the arbi...since it doesnt need to use lasers.... sigh small beam lasers are completely borked fitting wise. I once got one 3 of the best named tech1 beam lasers on my vengenace, and still needed to use a fitting mod. tech2? useless essentially, would need 2 fiting mods on a frig. And this is a tech2 frig that is not short on PG. turning into a long post, but essentially it boils down into this: Armarr dont have med slots, so they specilize in tank and gank. Right now, the other races have a ship in EVERY class that can outgank or outtank, sometimes both. So what do Amarr bring to the table exactly, other than easy ecm targets? Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:41:00 - [37] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn dont even get me started on the tech1 cruisers. best is probably the arbi...~~since it doesnt need to use lasers~~ since its gallente. sigh Recruitment
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:43:00 - [38] Meh. Im afraid to get involved in these amarr threads, because I know that the amarr people will never agree with me, and the thread will go on for 78 pages...so I guess I will try to be silent. But... gah, its hard. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Icek Villawrov Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:52:00 - [39] The punisher is my favorite tech 1 frig. It has never lost to another frigate with the exception of a dual web fitted (name of the ship the ishkur is based on evades me at the moment). And YOU USE LASERS on this BBQ fit. The key, is this little module called a micro auxilary power core. 3x MEDIUM pulse lasers 1x small nos (if you can fit) AB, scram/web/recharger small rep, 200mm plate, EANM, MAPC Pie > Cake Now that depends on the pie, if its apple then pie > cake - Xorus French Silk, of course-Icek eeehehehheheheh - Immy
Yakov Krasnov Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.13 20:24:00 - [40] One big problem in the OP is that he is comparing the lightest pulse laser with the heaviest autocannon. I did some damage calculations on my own, and the DPS's I got were very different. Bear in mind I am including no skills at all, just raw numbers, and using the shortest-ranged ammo. 30.96 - 3x Med pulse 25.56 - 3x Gatling pulse 25.41 - 3x 200mm AC 22.77 - 3x 125mm AC Still, the lasers come out ahead on damage, 12-21% better, with the bigger advantage on the bigger guns. On the other hand, the AC's have much lower fitting requirements, but can't have their range stretched much with different ammo, while the lasers can quickly increase their range significantly for situations where they can control the range to the target. ... like that ever happens. I agree that Amarr need some help, but at least compare apples and apples, okay? Personally, I am in favor of ditching the cap use bonuses to Amarr ships, replacing them with damage, tracking, ROF, or range bonuses, and cutting laser's cap usage in half across the board. ----------------------------------------------- Mercenary minded - I'll fly whatever works best.
Kye Kenshin Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.13 20:43:00 - [41] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kye Kenshin Oh yeh it was amazing when the only BS worth using was the 8 HSII gankageddon and only npcers fitted tanks. You're an idiot. TomB nerfed the gankageddon, how exactly am I an idiot? Silly fool. Because you think the stacking penalty is a bad thing. www.beaglecorp.com \| Join "BEAGLEPUBLIC" channel ingame.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 20:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Kye Kenshin Because you think the stacking penalty is a bad thing. amarr has only 2 things to rely on....max damage and max tank. stacking = less of both. Those that cant see that are the true idiots. Recruitment
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.13 21:22:00 - [43] since i actually have decent skills for amarr... boost amarr guns! less grid and more thermal damage! also, give amarr ships natural armor regeneration. half of the natural shield regeneration speed will be enough. thanks.
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.13 22:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Yakov Krasnov One big problem in the OP is that he is comparing the lightest pulse laser with the heaviest autocannon. as was said earlier thats doable due to the extreme ease of fitting autocannons. as you propably dont want to just waste the pg you have available after fitting weak autocannons thats not a weakness in the op but rather common sense. of course those light fitting requirements are what makes our tanking ships perform better (sometimes) with heavy autocannons than with weak lasers when going for a heavy tank. you cant really use the heavier lasers as a comparison because you will not be able to fit them with an equally powerful tank (which is the whole idea behind the setup). the setup from Icek Villawrov can fit if you use mostly named stuff instead of t2: 3x MEDIUM pulse lasers 1x small nos (if you can fit) AB, scram/web/recharger small rep, 200mm plate, EANM, MAPC assuming you dont want the enemy to warp off you may want to fit a web or scrambler instead of the recharger. that leaves you with just a single small nos and your natural recharge rate to keep 3x med pulses, ab , scram, and repper going. the ac setup on the other hand has room for an additional cpr and the guns dont use any cap at all. considering how many setups use nos these days the med pulse setup will run dry pretty fast while the ac+cpr setup has a good chance to just keep on going while under nos.
Gorenaire	Posted - 2006.09.14 00:44:00 - [45] Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 13/09/2006 13:48:02 The punisher, eh ? Its the most useless frigate in the game. I mean, come on, a frigate that has two PASSIV boni. Cant get worth tbh. There is a thing worst than passiv boni, its people who dont know what they're talking about and so, look like a fool. Saying that the puni is the most useless frig in the game show that you never flew one.
CB Cyrix GeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.15 08:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Yakov Krasnov One big problem in the OP is that he is comparing the lightest pulse laser with the heaviest autocannon. The reason I did this was because with that setup ONLY gatlin pulses fit, plus without a webber I need the tracking.
Mjukisdjur	Posted - 2006.09.15 08:35:00 - [47] i think that is it a good setup but i use blasters on my punisher and even if you get a bonus from small lasers and not blasters the blasters are still going to do more dps:)
CB Cyrix GeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.15 11:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Mjukisdjur i think that is it a good setup but i use blasters on my punisher and even if you get a bonus from small lasers and not blasters the blasters are still going to do more dps:) Problem with that is you can only squeese on electrons with the above setup, and it uses twice the cap as the regen. And its DPS is only about 15% more. And its range is down to below 2km, so blasters are a no no cap/range/DPS wise.

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