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CB Cyrix GeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:44:00 - [1] Edited by: CB Cyrix on 13/09/2006 11:48:09 Punisher Analysis I was looking for a disposible pvp frig and being amarr I thought only fitting to try to use the punisher. Seen as it only has two medium slots, ab + scram so no webber, I really need high tracking, so beams are out of the question. Nos is a must really seens as im that close I might aswell boost my cap, and a armour plate of some kind is usefull to soak up high alpha-strikes while my repairer tops it back up. So I ended up with this setup: 3x Gatlin Pulse II 1x Small Nos 1x 1mn AB II 1x Warp Scram 1x Small Rep II 1x 200mm Rolled Plate 1x Heatsink II 1x Cap Power Relay It will ALMOST runs forever, so some clever cycles on the repairer and all is good. Its stats are: 85 DPS (RAW with multifreq) Range = 3km + 0.6km Tracking = 0.308 I thought as a joke I would swap the Heatsink for a gyro, and the Gatlin Pulses for 200mm Autocannon II's. So small pulses switched for the biggest SMALL autocannon. Its new stats are: 84 DPS (RAW with EMP) Range = 0.75km + 4.8km Tracking = 0.394 Conclusion: Weirdly enough by loosing 1DPS you gain not only 10-12.5% increase in range, but you gain 28% more tracking AND the cap needs have dropped so it now all runs forever. How weird is this, that an amarr ship atually works ALOT better with its rivals guns, I think that the punisher needs another bonus like a tracking boost or something coz this REALLY sucks. AND its other quirk is that its now causing EXP damage too so its alot better in PVP. Now MR CCP ive giving you stats and stuff, so post. What are you going to do about amarr?
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.13 11:57:00 - [2] All Amarr Frigates and most Cruisers lack Powergrid. Thats why you end up using ACs, they are superior in Fitting/Performance, even without Bonus. Now imagine same ritting on Rifter. Welcome to amarr world of being the punching bag of Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar
Laythun Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:06:00 - [3] Erm hello! am i the only amarr he seeing sense?? wtf u want the setup to run forever for?? Sig Removed. Some contents are not appropriate for Eve. -ReverendM ([email protected]) Remember to include a copy of your image.See You In Space Cowboy[/url]
CB Cyrix GeoTech	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Laythun Erm hello! am i the only amarr he seeing sense?? wtf u want the setup to run forever for?? Well it means that I could take a nos hit and not be dead in the water. But the main bonus is the tracking+range+ choosing your damage type. That FAR out does the conns of 1 DPS.
Hoshi Masurao	Posted - 2006.09.13 12:36:00 - [5] From what you've put, you're taking falloff into consideration. Also, I'm assuming that your calculation isn't taking into account that falloff = -50% in DPS. If you ignore falloff and take it from a 100% DPS point of view (i.e. at opitmal), then the two weapon systems start to have a larger void between them than you would think. But that doesn't change the fact that even at optimal of the longer ranged guns, you're still only 3km from your target, which is a small margin for a quick ship.
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:24:00 - [6] against default armour resists a punisher with 150mm ac + barrage does more damage than gatling pulse + conflagration it does more damage out to a longer range too basically against base armour resists you'd be mad to use lasers over autos on a punisher
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:36:00 - [7] i'm going with laythun here, don't fit to run forever Maybe not herpes, but I'll give ya goat!-Tirg
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.13 13:47:00 - [8] Edited by: Andreask14 on 13/09/2006 13:48:02 The punisher, eh ? Its the most useless frigate in the game. I mean, come on, a frigate that has two PASSIV boni. Cant get worth tbh.
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.13 14:17:00 - [9] Yes it can get worse. Inquisitor +10% EM dmg for small Missiles
CB LoKi	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:04:00 - [10] Edited by: CB LoKi on 13/09/2006 15:04:41 Im also supprised that you can say anal-ya-sis without getting moaded at lol, what you and your sis do in your own time lol Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques
Antodias Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 13/09/2006 13:48:02 The punisher, eh ? Its the most useless frigate in the game. I mean, come on, a frigate that has two PASSIV boni. Cant get worth tbh. Wow, have you ever actually flown the thing? It's one of the best t1 pirating friggies in the game. Aside, I agree with the OP about having to fit ACs on Amarr; it should be changed.
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:29:00 - [12] Worse frig? Linkage Think not, also it realy makes me laugh when I hear people saying things like "problem with this fit is according to quickfit its cap runs dry after 2mins" I mean wtf lol. CEO - Art of War
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Udyr Vulpayne on 13/09/2006 15:33:44 punisher is actually a pretty nice frig if you go for autocannons and a heavy tank. if you want to go for the highest damage potential then maybe a med pulse + heatsink setup would be the way to go. what really makes the punisher great however is its durability/tank potential. if you want to maximize that tank you will not want to use med pulses due to their fitting requirements and cap need. dual light/gatling pulses on the other hand dont offer enough of an increase in raw damage over autocannons to make up for their capneed. add to that the poor damage lasers get on armor and small autocannons start to look real good on a punisher. if you go for tanking you want to fit a nos and 1 or 2 cpr because your setup will not do all that much damage and you will need to survive for a long time. that means keeping your ab+repper active while you are being nossed by the enemy. beam setups have other problems besides tracking that make then less desireable: - dual light beams will do crappy damage - medium beams will gimp your setup with fitting mods - hard to keep the enemy at range with a punisher not really sure how one would be able to make lasers more useful on a punisher without lots of changes. if you want to give the punisher a laser dmg/rof/range/tracking bonus under the current system that would mean losing one of the other 2 bonuses: - if you remove the laser cap need bonus: people who want to make good use of the punishers tanking power will still fit autocannons because laser cap need is now ever higher. in case the new bonus is a damage/rof bonus the punisher could become a short duration gank ship like the proposed abaddon. - if you remove the resistance bonus: punisher will no longer have its unique role as a tanking frig. in order to give the punisher (or our other tankers) a more useful bonus you would have to change the way laser cap use reduction is done completly by moving the 50% laser cap use reduction bonus from the ship bonus to lasers themself/a skill/a 3rd ship bonus like on the pirate faction ships. then you could go and do sth like this with the free bonus slot: - gank ships (coercer, omen, geddon, ...) get a 2nd damage bonus - tank ships (punisher, maller, prophecy, apoc, ...) get a 2nd tank bonus...maybe hitpoints, cap recahrge, nos/neut bonus, repair amount, repair time or repper cap use - others: if you want no change at all just stick a laser dmg bonus in place of the cap use one or give up one some damage for another type of bonus (range for example) important: as lasers have a higher default damage you would need to reduced their damage mod to bring it back in line on with the other weapon types. what you get with doing this: - gankships: same damage as before, same capuse as before aka no change at all - tankships: lasers do less damage on these now, use the same cap and you have a 2nd bonus that actually gets used. now i realize you could still save more cap by using projectile weapons on our tankers but at least you would have a better chance at utilizing both ship bonuses. or you could just kick the laser-cap bonus from our tank ships completly and give us a projectile bonus instead and forget about the idea of mixing tanks and heavy cap use weapons.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 16:02:00 - [14] Amarr ships are better with Minnie guns.....in other words Tux is a n00b. Recruitment
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.13 16:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Death Kill Amarr ships are better with Minnie guns.....in other words Tux is a n00b. All due respect, but it's been this way for a very long time. Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. - Three years old
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:53:00 - [16] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Death Kill Amarr ships are better with Minnie guns.....in other words Tux is a n00b. All due respect, but it's been this way for a very long time. Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. All it takes for suckiness to prevail is for good men to do nothing
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.13 17:54:00 - [17] Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:55:27 Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:54:36 Originally by: Ithildin Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. Did I say that he changed turrets? He did introduce the rubbish stacking penalty and the rubbish tank boost didnt he? And hes about not not only nerf nos witch will be the final nail in the coffin for Amarr but hes also going to nerf fleet battles. Come back TomB....come back. Recruitment
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:55:27 Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:54:36 Originally by: Ithildin Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. Did I say that he changed turrets? He did introduce the rubbish stacking penalty and the rubbish tank boost didnt he? And hes about not not only nerf nos witch will be the final nail in the coffin for Amarr but hes also going to nerf fleet battles. Come back TomB....come back. Was the best change to happen in a long while. Meant that balanced setups were actually worth looking at... ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:55:27 Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:54:36 Originally by: Ithildin Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. Did I say that he changed turrets? He did introduce the rubbish stacking penalty and the rubbish tank boost didnt he? And hes about not not only nerf nos witch will be the final nail in the coffin for Amarr but hes also going to nerf fleet battles. Come back TomB....come back. Stacking penalty and tanking changes were GOOD, and how is not nerfing NOS the final nail in Amarrs coffin? You make no sense. CEO - Art of War
Antodias Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:55:27 Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:54:36 Originally by: Ithildin Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. Did I say that he changed turrets? He did introduce the rubbish stacking penalty and the rubbish tank boost didnt he? And hes about not not only nerf nos witch will be the final nail in the coffin for Amarr but hes also going to nerf fleet battles. Come back TomB....come back. Stacking penalty was needed, stopping the blobbing in fleet battles is not 'nerfing'. Where you even around when Tomb had the nerfbat?
Kye Kenshin Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:55:27 Edited by: Death Kill on 13/09/2006 17:54:36 Originally by: Ithildin Tuxford (or his team) has never changed turrets. Did I say that he changed turrets? He did introduce the rubbish stacking penalty and the rubbish tank boost didnt he? And hes about not not only nerf nos witch will be the final nail in the coffin for Amarr but hes also going to nerf fleet battles. Come back TomB....come back. Oh yeh it was amazing when the only BS worth using was the 8 HSII gankageddon and only npcers fitted tanks. You're an idiot. www.beaglecorp.com \| Join "BEAGLEPUBLIC" channel ingame.
Corinne Zidane	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:26:00 - [22] Take a look at this setup H: 3x 200mm AC II, Small named nos M: 1mn AB II, scrambler L: Small rep II, 200mm plate, Energized Adaptive I, cap relay Resists: 75.4/50.8/53.87/60.02 If it's about going against eg. a shield tanked caracal, a medium pulse setup works better (for me) even with t1 guns and it's truly a disposable setup.
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:34:00 - [23] Hang on, Am I the only one to have noticed that he's comparing gatling pulse to 200mm AC's ? Thats the lowest damaging pulse laser against the most damaging autocannon. And they still out damage the AC's at raw damage. Thats why the calcs look so much better for the autocannons, because your changing up two grades of gun, so OF COURSE the range and falloff will be better. It stands to reason. Yes, autocannons are easy to fit. Yes they track well. Yes they have good falloff. They also do pretty bad damage compared to most anything else, and aside from on the wolf and other dual damage bonus beasts , they aren't even vaguelly competitive damage wise. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Antodias Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 13/09/2006 13:48:02 The punisher, eh ? Its the most useless frigate in the game. I mean, come on, a frigate that has two PASSIV boni. Cant get worth tbh. Wow, have you ever actually flown the thing? It's one of the best t1 pirating friggies in the game. I'm quite sure that was sarcastic. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Jowhar Draghi	Posted - 2006.09.13 18:40:00 - [25] Personally, I love the punisher and enjoy ratting and PVP in it - great tank for T1 frig and decent damage over time. The ship is fine. Autocannons are great, but you have to get ammo, I can run forever (there is that word again) with Multi freq's and not worry about ammo, etc, and then switch out to long range ones as needed.
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Valea Silpha Hang on, Am I the only one to have noticed that he's comparing gatling pulse to 200mm AC's ? Thats the lowest damaging pulse laser against the most damaging autocannon. And they still out damage the AC's at raw damage. Thats why the calcs look so much better for the autocannons, because your changing up two grades of gun, so OF COURSE the range and falloff will be better. It stands to reason. I agree...yes hes using the highest damaging AC's and lowest lasers...youd know why if you flew amarr. Its because we CANT FIT ANY DAMAGING WEAPONS WITHOUT BORKING THE REST OF THE SHIP. People think we Amarr are just whining...too bad they never tried to fly them. Sadly its true- Originally by: Angus McLean Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr null
Benjamin Olson	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:08:00 - [27]
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 13/09/2006 19:11:23 OP is retarded. that 'increase' in range is actually falloff. So, whereas you were always hititng <3km, you'll be missing 50% of the from .75 - 4.8km That's a BIG DPS drop. Damn quickfit jockies. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Benjamin Olson	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:10:00 - [29] empty post? oh well. Yeah its because we're trying to get the MOST damage out of our Punisher. We cant fit Medium Pulse Lasers on the Punisher without running into grid problems so we fit Gatling Pulses. Funny thing is we CAN fit higher damaging AC's so why not? Were not debating which gun is better, were trying to get the most bang for our fitting.
korrey Level Five	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:12:00 - [30] Edited by: korrey on 13/09/2006 19:13:11 For me personally theres nothing wrong with the Punisher, but another mid slot would be kind of Tux. As for the rest of Amarr... Edit: Lol Angus, your quote is now my sig. Originally by: Angus McLean Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr

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