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Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:02:38 - [1] - Quote Hi I warped to a gate at 0, the warp took me to 2550 and then I was podded by a thrasher with sensor boosters. Really seems weird that you can't even rely on the basic navigation functions of a ship? Is that really the case or did something else happen? Might aswell throw your money into a slot machine if its RNG where you warp to.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5749	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:04:58 - [2] - Quote There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:06:20 - [3] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone.
Concord Guy's Cousin State War Academy Caldari State 151	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:13:55 - [4] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. More like margin of error than RNG. ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries" NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5750	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:15:16 - [5] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. Imagine 50 ships warping to the same point. With the deviation you have a small sphere of ships. Without it you have all ships on top of each other exploding like a shrapnel bomb when they bump each other with maximum force. There is a reason this exists and I told you how you can compensate for it. Also specific bookmarks for stations that assure you are always within the docking range on warp in are really helpful if you are being a target. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics
Posting With Alt Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:15:53 - [6] - Quote This is why I don't install the latest version of WarpOS on my ships until all of the initial bugs are worked out and patched.
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:16:10 - [7] - Quote Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land?
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3192	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:20:12 - [8] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. It isn't. Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression. You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points. Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp). There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds. Fly fun Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1734	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:20:41 - [9] - Quote I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG. Makes a change. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:22:14 - [10] - Quote Crumplecorn wrote: I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG. Makes a change. I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system.
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:29:46 - [11] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. It isn't. Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression. You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points. Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp). There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds. Fly fun The smartbombing is fine, as its an aoe that hits as you land, landing outside of jump range then being targetted and killed is totally different. Quote: You almost always land in jump range. If you press jump or warp to 0 and almost always instead of always land within jump range its RNG as there is no player skill involved.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7010	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:34:31 - [12] - Quote You do not have to bookmark much, if anything (only gates/stations you frequent and/or have "special concerns" for). For the most part, you'll land well within docking/jumping distance. The times you do not can be easily corrected with a quick AB/MWD burn into range for a second or two. The situation you decribed above OP is more or less a fluke. It happens, but not that often. And only with small ships. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Velicitia XS Tech 2681	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:36:45 - [13] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? it's not "some random distance" from 0. For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large. This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3192	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:36:46 - [14] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: If you press jump or warp to 0 and almost always instead of always land within jump range its RNG as there is no player skill involved. Yes, I agree, you should definitely quit EVE because of this. The only reason I'm still playing is because I've never lost a pod to that very small possibility. If/when it ever happens to me, I promise I'll post on GD and let you know if I've decided to quit too. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:41:05 - [15] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? it's not "some random distance" from 0. For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large. This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000. So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random.
Claud Tiberius Fidelas Constans 90	Posted - 2015.01.03 14:58:29 - [16] - Quote Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. Thats not really relevant unless you are warping to an object such as a station, gate, POS - If the pilot is using a bookmark and it's placed within the station (or other safe area), it nulls all the effort in randomness and risk that CCP has tried to add with warping-in. Since the bookmark will place you comfortably within 0km. For that reason, bookmarks can be OP, as the defender, even the oldest ones, don't have their own bookmark to use. imo this isn't how bookmarks should be used in the game. Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Milan Nantucket New Eden Misfits 210	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:03:27 - [17] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Crumplecorn wrote: I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG. Makes a change. I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system. It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it.
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 7425	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:03:36 - [18] - Quote I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here. Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right. Bounce...off the gate. At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Yourmoney Mywallet Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation 278	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:29:33 - [19] - Quote Back in the day of any TruVet there was no warp-to-zero. There is no pipe big enoug to smoke that.
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 709	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:34:54 - [20] - Quote They can make a gate's " 0 " into a bigger volume, same with landing on stations ... but CCP wants to serve up victims. CSM Ten movement for change. EVE - the only MMO that not so subtly serves up victims. Status: Rabid carebear Blog
Equinnox Dethahal Black Anvil Industries SpaceMonkey's Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:44:09 - [21] - Quote If everyone warped to the gate at the exact same spot, everyone would camp that spot and just ram you off the gate. the "RNG" as you so spastically dub it, is protection for you against gate campers knowing the exact location youll arrive.
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1734	Posted - 2015.01.03 15:56:10 - [22] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: They can make a gate's " 0 " into a bigger volume, same with landing on stations ... but CCP wants to serve up victims. Yes, they changed the landing distance from 15km to ~0km to 'serve up victims'. Witty Image - Stream Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Quanah Comanche Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 59	Posted - 2015.01.03 16:26:28 - [23] - Quote Milan Nantucket wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Crumplecorn wrote: I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG. Makes a change. I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system. It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it. This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not. I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG.
Alec Arbosa The Meme Factory 0	Posted - 2015.01.03 16:29:43 - [24] - Quote Quanah Comanche wrote: Milan Nantucket wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Crumplecorn wrote: I like how the complaint isn't about getting podded, but about RNG. Makes a change. I don't mind losing stuff, just annoying to lose it to randomness, it really annoys me that its out of my control. I guess now I know about it its within my control to a degree but tbh I don't play this game to bookmark gates at 0 before I enter a system. It is under your control. You just fail at controlling it. Maybe read the posts of what not to do and learn from it. This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not. I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG. It is RNG, the way around it is removing the rng with bookmarks or with a ship that negates the tolerances within the RNG. Its literally the definition of RNG. Quit trying to make it not random.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 563	Posted - 2015.01.03 17:15:06 - [25] - Quote Flying naked, though fun and frisky, is not recommended. Vote Sabriz!
Serene Repose 1993	Posted - 2015.01.03 17:19:37 - [26] - Quote No. Don't quit EVE because of this. Just stop posting. TYVM have a nice day! Treason never prospers. What is the reason? Why, if it prospers, none dare call it "treason."
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 265	Posted - 2015.01.03 17:46:02 - [27] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: I warped to a gate at 0, the warp took me to 2550 and then I was podded by a thrasher with sensor boosters. Really seems weird that you can't even rely on the basic navigation functions of a ship? Is that really the case or did something else happen? Might aswell throw your money into a slot machine if its RNG where you warp to. If this rare of the rarest occasions is reason for you to quit I am certain this is indeed not the game for you. Can I have your stuff?
Ioci Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 541	Posted - 2015.01.03 17:55:14 - [28] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here. Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right. Bounce...off the gate. At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Mr Epeen I know you are making this up. 'Back in our day' we didn't have WTZ. We warped to 15, tried to warp through the gate to 15 on the other side, made a bookmark and then tested each bookmark to see if it landed us close to the gate, repeat and rinsed entire routes. Back to the OP, it has always been like this. Stations are even worse. Perimeter, Warp to Jita IV 4 will land you 2500 away every time. It's why I have Insta and on true 0 warp bookmarks for Jita. Most wrecks there are on the slow boat to true 0. R.I.P. Vile Rat
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 12477	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:01:54 - [29] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. Troll. Ladies of New Eden YC 117 Calendar by Indahmawar Fazmarai Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear! If you are reading this while being naked ... me too!!
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 4633	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:04:22 - [30] - Quote It should be noted: The same thing can happen with warping to stations. The way to avoid it, on route you travel regularly, is drop a bookmark within jump/dock range. So even if you're 2.5km behind the point, you're still in range. Woo! CSM 9! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 885	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:38:27 - [31] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: It isn't. Either Lug got lucky, or you tried to jump with aggression. You almost always land in jump range. Use 'jump' to warp to out-gate, not 'warp to' then 'jump'. Spam jump when you land for bonus paranoia points. Anyways, even in lowsec it's advisable not to warp directly to gate (especially in Black Rise, if Santo Trafficante is around), but first to a 'pounce' 200-300km off gate. That's because smartbombers camp gates, too, and they don't need a lock to blap your pod. Actually, you don't even have to land (they balp you while you're still in warp). There's very little rng in EVE (ECM, and turret damage), but in both cases players have full control on the odds. Fly fun Not really true - on a route of say 20 jumps I will land outside of jump range atleast once often 2 and sometimes more times, hence I've built up a collection of BMs that place me on 0 while as far from the sweet spots for ganking as possible on the stations and gates around trade hubs.
Hal Morsh Icendus Corux 240	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:44:32 - [32] - Quote Quanah Comanche wrote: This. Quit trying to make it random. It's not. I have noticed that "RNG" is the new reason gamers fail in games. Not their fault. Ever. RNG. In world of tanks I got tired of losing specific things, like my gun. I would even make it my goal to break the enemies gun, but all that would get me was a ton of 0 damage critical hits and the enemies gun never broke. Then I found out people had modded the game to see specific weakpoints on many tanks (even against the rules). I also discovered, it's not shooting the gun that mattered, it's shooting a tiny section on the gun barrel different from gun to gun. Which is why me just shooting the barrel did nothing. The point? The game is better with RNG, but as always cheaters cheat. I also don't know what to say to the whole making gold stuff available for earnable credits, because then it came down to "pro" players loading ALL gold, negating anything with armor that wasn't a russian tank. They thought it would appease the pay to win whiners, when it just 100% buttfucked the games balance. CCP - Outpost code is scary.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6005	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:48:06 - [33] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: I'm going to play the 'Back in My Day' card here. Son, you got it easy. Why, back in my day you'd warp to zero with a freighter and it would bounce off the gate. That's right. Bounce...off the gate. At the keyboard. Paying attention. And you still end up 45kms away from the safety of that jumpgate. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Mr Epeen I was waiting for someone to bring up WTZ. Back in my day we had to burn to the gates. First thing noobs learned was afterburners. That 15KM was always uphill, both ways. (Of course that was also before "kill everything that moves for no reason" gate camping as a KB full of rookie ships and noob pods was a disgrace back when standards were higher) Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3252	Posted - 2015.01.03 18:53:07 - [34] - Quote Rroff wrote: Not really true - on a route of say 20 jumps I will land outside of jump range atleast once often 2 and sometimes more times, hence I've built up a collection of BMs that place me on 0 while as far from the sweet spots for ganking as possible on the stations and gates around trade hubs. Maybe 5-10% is the chance to land slightly out of jump range, as you say. But in order to also DIE: . You have to be in something squishy . The gate has to have gankers with high scan res and high alpha . They have to try to lock you (sometimes they won't even bother, for various reasons) . The whole server tick thing has to be in their favor (else by the time the server accepts their 'lock request', you'll have already travelled the 100m or so to jump range) So it's very rare to die that way. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Vorran Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.01.03 19:26:35 - [35] - Quote you should have seen the mess warp to 0 made when they first implemented it . getting bounced off gate doing 300,000 ms lol was a fun time till they corrected it and titan bowling was born :)
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 143	Posted - 2015.01.03 19:32:18 - [36] - Quote uhm, get a shuttle at least. Chalk it up as lesson learned and move on sheesh
Alex Grison Grison Industrial Group 905	Posted - 2015.01.03 19:56:56 - [37] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? You can control the margin as much as you can control the depth of your feelers into the unknown void that represents the Fessionical ether. Plunge deeper and uncover the worlds that await when you release the brakes and fly down the rails with disregard for fatalities. yes
Velicitia XS Tech 2684	Posted - 2015.01.03 20:53:32 - [38] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? it's not "some random distance" from 0. For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large. This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000. So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random. No. You ALWAYS land 2,500 meters from the coordinate that you're intending to hit (be it bookmark, etc). Now, due to the dimensions of stations (and stargates), and their repsective "WTZ" points, this does mean that you slide around a bit on them. However, this is not the game choosing a random distance, just a function of you always landing a set distance from a static point that is not in the same XYZ location as the true "centerpoint" of the object. You can actually see this happen with stations -- you can be 5-10 KM (or more!) away from touching the central axis (whatever it is) and still be "at zero" on the station. If you want to see the sphere bit in action ... grab 5-10 friends with the same skills (or as close as possible) ... align to a BM, and then fleet warp them to zero. When you get there, just let the ships coast to a stop. You'll all be approximately 2500 meters from each other, even if you started closer (or farther apart). Now, this is affected by skills, so pilots who can stop faster (or don't stop as fast) will be farther away than 2500 meters. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Concord Guy's Cousin State War Academy Caldari State 152	Posted - 2015.01.03 21:08:08 - [39] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? When you take into account the magnitude of the distances involved in warping from point a to point b, landing 2500m from your destination is pretty damn accurate. Warp distance in Eve is measured in astronomical units (AU), 1 AU is 149,597,870,700 metres. If you warp 1 AU and land 2500m from your target instead of at 0 then that's a miniscule, as in about 0.0000017%, margin of error. TL;DR suck it up buttercup, and give me your stuff. ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries" NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1309	Posted - 2015.01.03 21:43:36 - [40] - Quote On a slighly related note, there does seem a change on gate jumps recently as covops ships can now land close enough to the gate to decloak but not jump for a few seconds. Not everytime but often enough to be noticeable.
Lug Muad'Dib Wise Humans Sword 34	Posted - 2015.01.03 23:13:51 - [41] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: uhm, get a shuttle at least. Chalk it up as lesson learned and move on sheesh Already kill 2 lepoards in the same way D-Scan immunity is dumb.
Yarda Black Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 503	Posted - 2015.01.04 00:11:10 - [42] - Quote You never noticed that after jumping through a gate, you don't appear on the exact same spot every time? You appear at a random point around 12K off the gate. Massive RNG right there. You could have saved yourself all this trouble after the second time you jumped a gate.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3269	Posted - 2015.01.04 01:08:16 - [43] - Quote Yarda Black wrote: Massive RNG right there. lololol Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 421	Posted - 2015.01.04 02:46:32 - [44] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? it's not "some random distance" from 0. For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large. This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000. So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random. No. You ALWAYS land 2,500 meters from the coordinate that you're intending to hit (be it bookmark, etc). ...And the spot on this sphere of radius 2500 meters is still random. Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 421	Posted - 2015.01.04 02:48:32 - [45] - Quote It's interesting to me that there are so many people who don't even understand a concept as relatively simple as randomness. They think that because the generated position is subject to constraints means that there is no random element. You know what else has randomness? Turret damage. Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Velicitia XS Tech 2690	Posted - 2015.01.04 03:55:18 - [46] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Velicitia wrote: Alec Arbosa wrote: Its not a margin of error I can control, then what's the point of it existing except to be some random distance from 0 you will land? it's not "some random distance" from 0. For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. However, these two instances are pretty rare (as there is only one point based on the vector you're travelling that would get either of them), so you will typically land somewhere closer to 2,000 meters, and then coast in. On most gates, this is fine, as the activation radius is rather large. This is the same as cynoing, except that incoming caps land on a sphere of r=5000. So it is random, but within some limits? correct? That's still random. No. You ALWAYS land 2,500 meters from the coordinate that you're intending to hit (be it bookmark, etc). ...And the spot on this sphere of radius 2500 meters is still random. My point was that the landing distance is constant (i.e. 2500m). However, yes, due to the relationship of a landing target and nearby object, you may end up some other distance from that other object. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 568	Posted - 2015.01.04 04:30:34 - [47] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: On a slighly related note, there does seem a change on gate jumps recently as covops ships can now land close enough to the gate to decloak but not jump for a few seconds. Not everytime but often enough to be noticeable. I've noticed that and wondered if it was a new-ish thing. I've started decloaking once I'm within 100 km of the gate. Seems to help. Vote Sabriz!
Nexus Day Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau 1109	Posted - 2015.01.04 04:47:14 - [48] - Quote Hay, here is an idea. Give all ships jump drives and get rid of gates. Now you don't have to worry about gate camps and hunters have to actually hunt. Lazy developers are lazy. But not as lazy as gate campers. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
Kaarous Aldurald Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 11062	Posted - 2015.01.04 04:52:15 - [49] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: Hay, here is an idea. Give all ships jump drives and get rid of gates. Now you don't have to worry about gate camps and hunters have to actually hunt. Lazy developers are lazy. But not as lazy as gate campers. The game lacks enough ways to force a fight as is, gates are one of the very few chokepoints in the game. They are natural spots for predators. If they took gates away, people like you would just move on to crying about camping stations. Nevermind that this game is designed with a grid system for a reason, it's basically a roguelike like that. Gates are a major lag saving mechanism. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Tisiphone Dira New Order Logistics CODE. 78	Posted - 2015.01.04 07:13:21 - [50] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: (Of course that was also before "kill everything that moves for no reason" gate camping as a KB full of rookie ships and noob pods was a disgrace back when standards were higher) Don't forget shuttles! @ OP You are the one who took out a npc corp pod in jita yesterday using a thrasher, nice troll. This almost happened to me last week actually. Was running with crim flag and landed just short of the gate range, almost got done in. He got scram on me anyway and I took a few dents. Trying to kill my pod, I mean really, how rude. At gates, in 400+ thrasher ganks, I've seen the opportunity to do it maybe 5 times, I think it happened once without a sebo, but then I can't know what the other guy was doing, maybe he cancelled the jump or for some reason warped to zero instead of jumping. If I wanted to do it I'd just run smartbombs, forget sebo'ing a thrasher.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 861	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:25:50 - [51] - Quote one of my first losses was due to me landing in a drag bubble in my interceptor and then bouncing off the gate when I flew to it. Oh well, I didn't want that crow anyways. I'll join the chorus asking CCP, don't take my fancy names away from me! In the name of the Limos, the Malkuth, and the Arbalest, so help me pod - Mara Rinn
Xercodo Vector Galactic Did he say Jump 3967	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:40:55 - [52] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpLRs9tB5E#t=1840 The Drake is a Lie
Blake Lowe The Icarus Expedition The Daedalus Imperium 1	Posted - 2015.01.04 10:26:35 - [53] - Quote Primary This Rifter wrote: It's interesting to me that there are so many people who don't even understand a concept as relatively simple as randomness. They think that because the generated position is subject to constraints means that there is no random element. You know what else has randomness? Turret damage. Depending on how you intemperate "Method" (Quote, the definition of "Random") it could be said that it's not random at all.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 190	Posted - 2015.01.04 11:02:39 - [54] - Quote Nexus Day wrote: Hay, here is an idea. Give all ships jump drives and get rid of gates. Now you don't have to worry about gate camps and hunters have to actually hunt. Lazy developers are lazy. But not as lazy as gate campers. The most lazy are the people getting caught in gate camps who could have avoided it by scouting first. ~ Bookmarks in overview ~ Fleet improvements
JackknifedII The Congregation 62	Posted - 2015.01.04 11:15:52 - [55] - Quote You were lucky. Back in my day there was no warp to 0. Everything was always an extra 15km away. Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....
Koebmand Silverflames 8	Posted - 2015.01.04 11:26:41 - [56] - Quote You always land +-2500m from your warp target, that is why people make bookmarks 2500 inside everything to use it instantly up on arrival. Yes, you have to go there once, make a bookmark 2500m inside (can be a little hard one some gates), then when going through again you warp to the bookmark, and as soon as out of warp you issue the Jump/Dock etc command. Yes, it does feel rather stupid to need a bookmark for every gate and station in Eve.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 257	Posted - 2015.01.04 13:14:02 - [57] - Quote Your ship usually only lands short of the gate when there is someone there waiting to kill you. I never have it happen on an empty gate :)
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 422	Posted - 2015.01.04 14:02:54 - [58] - Quote Blake Lowe wrote: Primary This Rifter wrote: It's interesting to me that there are so many people who don't even understand a concept as relatively simple as randomness. They think that because the generated position is subject to constraints means that there is no random element. You know what else has randomness? Turret damage. Depending on how you intemperate "Method" (Quote, the definition of "Random") it could be said that it's not random at all. Well it uses a pseudorandom number generator (probably MT19937), so if your point is that the numbers aren't truly random then I suppose that's true. But otherwise I don't see what you're trying to say. Reminder: CCP thinks you have no right to your alliance logos.
Tear Jar New Order Logistics CODE. 268	Posted - 2015.01.04 14:20:28 - [59] - Quote Alec Arbosa wrote: Abrazzar wrote: There is always a certain deviation bubble from your warp target location. The smaller your ship, the more obvious the discrepancy, with pods being really small, thus more likely to end up at a distance to whatever you wanted to warp to. Fly a ship next time. So it is rng basically? Puts me off playing this game really, same reason I won't touch hearthstone. You can counter it by setting up bookmarks on top of where you want to go, which have no rng in them.
Velicitia XS Tech 2691	Posted - 2015.01.04 16:00:58 - [60] - Quote McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: Velicitia wrote: For standard warping, you will land on a sphere of r=2500 meters from the "0-point" of your warp destination (be it a bookmark, station, POS, gate, whatever). It will be anywhere on the sphere, so assuming the "0 point" of a WTZ command for a gate is 2000 meters from the gate model (i.e. shows a distance of 2000 meters to the gate), you can land anywhere from "-500" to 4500 meters away. I had thought the WTZ points on a gate were always at the 0m border of the gate though. If so and the max deviation is truly 2,500m it's a bit odd that you can land further than 2,500m out from the gate's 0m sphere. Unless it's that you land 2,500m away max once your ship has coasted to 0 and that small window is when you can be caught? You're partially right - there is a sphere that contains all of the landing points for the gate or station. This "zero sphere" , as with the docking / activation radius for the station / gate is of sufficient size to encompass the entire model. Due to differing shapes, and odd protrusions on some of the models, and direction you're approaching from, your landing mark may or may not actually be within docking radius. This is why people will set up "true WTZ" bookmarks for stations. Gates are sufficiently large, and have a sufficiently large activation radius that you normally don't need to set a "true WTZ" bookmark for the gate. One of the guys from E-Uni (IIRC, might've been one of the other big alliances) gave a speech on the landing mechanics during either the 2014 (or was it 2013?) Fanfest. The reason a "zero sphere" is used, is because if you were actually to hit the zero point of the model (i.e. where the bracket is, more or less), you would ALWAYS bounce off in some random direction, going a bazillion m/sec. Think getting ejected from a POS shield when your CEO disallows corp usage (without the password), or getting rammed by a Mach while in something like a cruiser. Now, what I meant by "2000 meters away" was that the zero sphere will always land you around a point that is some distance from the actual zero coordinate of the station. However, this is VERY model dependent -- both for your warp target, and on what you're flying. From the station / gate side, if you're landing in/near a part of the model that extends outward (Like this one), you can still be "2000 meters away" from the station, though your distance shows "zero" in your overview still. On the other hand, a station like this will have a much tighter "zero sphere", so you're likely to have a closer relationship between the tactical overlay and your overview's zero. Because of these discrepancies in the landing sphere, the model's "true zero", and the activation sphere, you have some instances where you have to be closer, or can get away with being farther than normally. For exapmle, on Caldari inter-regional gates (the ones that look like a pair of pillars) and hitting from the "narrow end" -- I've been 3-4,000 meters away (per overview) and still gotten through. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6009	Posted - 2015.01.04 22:42:14 - [61] - Quote Tisiphone Dira wrote: Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: (Of course that was also before "kill everything that moves for no reason" gate camping as a KB full of rookie ships and noob pods was a disgrace back when standards were higher) Don't forget shuttles! @ OP You are the one who took out a npc corp pod in jita yesterday using a thrasher, nice troll. This almost happened to me last week actually. Was running with crim flag and landed just short of the gate range, almost got done in. He got scram on me anyway and I took a few dents. Trying to kill my pod, I mean really, how rude. At gates, in 400+ thrasher ganks, I've seen the opportunity to do it maybe 5 times, I think it happened once without a sebo, but then I can't know what the other guy was doing, maybe he cancelled the jump or for some reason warped to zero instead of jumping. If I wanted to do it I'd just run smartbombs, forget sebo'ing a thrasher. That kind of depended on who was in the shuttle. Generally speaking, players who "knew better" were fair game but I remember going through Amamake in a pod at 2 weeks and being told that's not a good idea to make a habit of it. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 5603	Posted - 2015.01.05 01:41:52 - [62] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: You do not have to bookmark much, if anything (only gates/stations you frequent and/or have "special concerns" for). For the most part, you'll land well within docking/jumping distance. The times you do not can be easily corrected with a quick AB/MWD burn into range for a second or two. The situation you decribed above OP is more or less a fluke. It happens, but not that often. And only with small ships. Happens on my freighters all the time. Maybe we have a different concept of "small ships"? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1309	Posted - 2015.01.05 03:46:51 - [63] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: On a slighly related note, there does seem a change on gate jumps recently as covops ships can now land close enough to the gate to decloak but not jump for a few seconds. Not everytime but often enough to be noticeable. I've noticed that and wondered if it was a new-ish thing. I've started decloaking once I'm within 100 km of the gate. Seems to help. I think its a new bug rather than "feature" as such. So you de-cloak while still in warp just before you reach the gate ? I will give that a try. Can't be worse then decloaking on the gate and then just sitting there.
Abrazzar Vardaugas Family 5758	Posted - 2015.01.05 04:18:34 - [64] - Quote Hasikan Miallok wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: Hasikan Miallok wrote: On a slighly related note, there does seem a change on gate jumps recently as covops ships can now land close enough to the gate to decloak but not jump for a few seconds. Not everytime but often enough to be noticeable. I've noticed that and wondered if it was a new-ish thing. I've started decloaking once I'm within 100 km of the gate. Seems to help. I think its a new bug rather than "feature" as such. So you de-cloak while still in warp just before you reach the gate ? I will give that a try. Can't be worse then decloaking on the gate and then just sitting there. I think it has to do with the decloaking and activation happening in the same tick. The action then gets refused, even if the decloak happened before and it approaches and tries the action again. It's similar with opening cans. I warp to a planetary launch container, land within access range but outside automatic decloaking, hit the cloak and then open the can, only to approach for a tick and then the can opens. Sometimes it works properly, same scenario, so it has to do with ticks and how actions are sorted in. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics

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