they've almost guaranteed a CRIUS II patch coming to fix this mess

I doubt they fix this guys.. I doubt they even discuss it at fan fest.

I haven't seen any sign of CCP acknowledging the issues, let alone preparing patches to correct them.

It will probably come up at industry related round tables and maybe we'll get a question or two asked, but I doubt it'll get much exposure beyond that.

Things getting discussed on the main stage at fanfest isn't really any indication of progress or priority anyway. If you recall CCP Seagull said she wanted to relive the glory of the last really good expansion (Apocrypha - March 2009) by making expansions that hit many areas of the game simultaneously while being linked by an over-arching theme. We haven't seen any sign of that since, not a peep has been heard on the subject and the nature of expansions since that speech was made have been the opposite of that intention. In fact what we've been seeing in each release is a small collection of patches, tweaks and revamps, maybe an actual feature if we're lucky and nothing to link them other than a release name.

So here I am, unfortunately an ex-industrialist because some bright spark decided that one of his last acts before exiting the company was to destroy everything that made EVE industry engaging.

We shouldn't complain though, because at least industry is still in a better state that PvE. Apparently in 2015, clicking red crosses is still the best PvE content CCP is willing to deliver.

What exactly did you consider engaging that is no longer there?

the indu framework has a lot of room coded in for improvements and future changes

But this time, we have a team working on structures and another team working on Corp roles.

... And traveling around with BPCs and datacores, despite their volume reduction, is a pita, you have to get back to fetch the invented bpcs and bring them to your production facility...

I agree there's many simple things that could be done to correct the actual situation, but first it should be some kind of signal of CCP recognizing there's a problem. So far I haven't seen one.

And the guy apparently responsible for this isn't even in the company anymore.

Also CCP has a very distorted view of the production situation. Eve market had a severe problem of overproduction before Crius and they add a TE bonus for almost every science related skill? WTF

I agree there's many simple things that could be done to correct the actual situation, but first it should be some kind of signal of CCP recognizing there's a problem. So far I haven't seen one.

And the guy apparently responsible for this isn't even in the company anymore.

Also CCP has a very distorted view of the production situation. Eve market had a severe problem of overproduction before Crius and they add a TE bonus for almost every science related skill? WTF

I tell ya, its like the dude responsible almost did it on purpose to ruin it.

Coincidentally the same was responsible for dominion sov, alchemy, super buffs, technetium and the T2 overhaul.

As someone just starting up research / manufacturing (coming from a station trader), this is a fascinating thread, thanks especially to Bad Bobby and Gilbaron (edit: Also Sabriz).

Question: Comments were made about the lack of higher end content available for this avenue of gameplay in EvE - aside from the previous industry iteration that allowed Bad Bobby to operate on such an impressive scale, what currently would you define as the higher end content? Supercaps / Titans? T3 Cruisers?

Comments were made about the lack of higher end content available for this avenue of gameplay in EvE - aside from the previous industry iteration that allowed Bad Bobby to operate on such an impressive scale, what currently would you define as the higher end content? Supercaps / Titans? T3 Cruisers?

High end industry content can just be a matter of scaling it up

Thin, yes. But some were still profitable. The problem is the huge decrease in production time of modules and ammo, resulting in a much larger supply, while the demand has not increased significantly. Drones, rigs and ships were not affected by this, their production time has not changed that drastically.

The only elements of EVE industry that count as high end industrial content in my mind, are supercapital production and production from T2 BPOs. Both are only high end due to the high barriers to entry, as the actual content represented by either option is rather simplistic, but the road taken to gain access to either option is often rather complex. In both cases it's the nature of the sandbox surrounding them that makes them interesting.

supercap manufacturing is so ******* boring, the only effort is freightering

That's just not correct. I have produced Rigs, T1 and T2 before Crius a lot (as I do exploration a lot) and it was well worth the time and effort. Nowadays it's not even close to be worthwile to think about. It's more efficient to just sell the Salvage to buy orders.

Crius and especially the reprocessing patch ****** up industry in most areas. I am happy they took at least the teams out again.

The problems really are the "mined minerals are free" people and those who may not have recognised, that material requirements for some stuff have changed. But I don't want to cry about that. It's just a conclusion from what I have seen and recognised on the market. While before Crius you could produce stuff without doing trading, this is nowadays very hard to do / in most cases impossible.

So you only use nowadays production to maximise your trading profit, whilst it was before Crius vice versa. You traded to maximise your production profit.

T2 production is a complete mess, don't try it or run your own figures, it's a guaranteed loss.

I'm making a fortune.

I haven't built anything since Crius. I still run my fingers over those spreadsheets occasionally, but the margins I see on most things make it not worth my time to bother. It seems "the minerals I mine are free" is the only way to make a good solid profit building things in Eve these days. If you want to run your operation as a business, you're better off doing it for love, not margin.

Thank you all contributors to this informative, yet depressing thread. I was hoping to start making some ISK manufacturing rather than mining, apparently my dreams will never come true...