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Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2015.01.06 19:03:51 -
[1] - Quote
Why can I not pull abandoned wrecks out of the clutches of these AFK-friendly, bot-aspirant mechanical demons?
This game should reward players who are at their keyboards, you know, actually playing it. It's a real pain and an annoyance warping through a gate in a Noctis or other salvaging fit ship and seeing tons of blue wrecks being chain pulled by a bunch of Mobile Tractor Units someone has carelessly left sitting in space abandoned.
It is an incredible eyesore. It can be at times incredibly frustrating and time consuming chasing down wrecks in a salvaging ship when several of these monstrosities are strewn about around a gate or asteroid belt.
My idea is simple: Make ship-mounted Tractor Beams override the tractor beam used by Mobile Tractor Units.
There isn't any reason why a deployable structure that small and easy to set up and forget about should be more powerful than a ship who's sole purpose is to clean up space. Especially since the Mobile Tractor Unit doesn't even clean up space. It just scoops the good stuff and then plays catch with the heap of charred and mangled metal.
Also: The fact this monstrosity can lock and pull wrecks and cans farther than a Noctis is also somewhat of an insult. |
Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 19:35:45 -
[2] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Just kill the MTU.......
I do when I'm in a ship fit for it.
But, flying around in a Noctis what in the world would compel me to attack one of these when I instantly become a free meal to everyone in the area? Am I expected to fly all the way back to a station I have stuff in just to grab a combat ship, fly all the way back, blow up the Mobile Tractor Unit, hopefully don't get aggressed by everyone and their mother on the gate, then hop back into my salvaging ship, wait for my suspect timer to clear and FINALLY finish the job.
Better yet: Make it so the attacker is only suspect flagged to the Mobile Tractor Unit's owner / fleet / corporation. Why should people get to just leave this trash floating around in space, un-guarded? Why should they also be able to rely on the public at large to protect their stuff when they log out? Why can something that doesn't even require you to be there be so annoying to people who are only trying to do their civic duty to keep space clean and junk free?
Meanwhile I have to fly around in a MWD fit frigate with Salvagers, Salvager drones or something to chase down every wreck. Something like a Noctis should be king of the hill in regards to a mobile tractor and salvage platform. |
Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 20:42:18 -
[3] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Let's see:
3. If you're worried at all about competing directly with an MTU, it means that the wrecks in question must be valid targets for both you and the MTU. This means that the MTU belongs to someone else in your corp (a situation which I'll ignore for a moment) or that the wrecks in question are abandoned (i.e. "blue") wrecks. These wrecks are already free game for anyone. This also means most likely that you're at a station, gate, or other reasonably public area and are competing for the loot of killed suicide gankers so you should have no reasonable expectation of "dibs". If that's the case...fit more sensor boosters and lock that wreck first, or kill the MTU and scoop the loot.
tl;dr: MTUs are fine. The only wrecks you can directly compete with them for are already fair game for everybody.
EDIT: Typos....
Loot is one thing, but watching MTUs play frisbee with an empty wreck is another thing entirely.
I have no qualms with blowing up the MTU, but under the current suspect mechanics and how many of them you can come across at once it's simply an unreasonable expectation. Therefore make it so the attacker is only suspect flagged to the MTU's owner / fleet / corporation. Not everyone else in the area. I'd happily whittle down an abandoned MTU with my Noctis if it meant I'm not going to turn myself into a pinata for all those watching.
After a MTU grabs a wreck it's basically gone. MTUs are automated and as such have perfect activation of their tractor beams. What does this mean? If you miss the initial grab it's going to be chain grabbed if there's a group of them set up. I've sat at a MTU pulling in a wreck waiting to snatch it with my own Tractor Beam after it was finished only to have it instantly tractored by another MTU with inhuman speed. The instant the first MTU deactivates its tractor beam a second MTU instantly activates its own. If nothing else this mechanic should be looked at as well.
And while I am not a suicide ganker myself I am adamantly against AFK playstyles in general. I should have dibs over someone who isn't in system or who isn't online. If they want to beat me they should have to be there at the keyboard manually targeting wrecks and salvaging them like I am.
Make no mistake, I'm not suggesting that somehow I can pull a can or wreck out of the grip of someone else using a ship-mounted Tractor Beam, but allowing someone to set and forget an object like that with the current suspect mechanics involved and the instant tractor activation is unreasonable. |
Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.06 22:22:51 -
[4] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:
You are being beaten by someone at there keyboard. They where there first dropped an MTU and moved on to drop more before coming back to collect things in the first one. The MTU's might not be abandoned.
That's assuming they're not AFK in a station. That's assuming they're logged in.
I'm there now. In EVE as a player I should be able to beat a machine at its own game. I have no problem with people using MTUs to collect their own legally owned wrecks, cans or those of their fleet and corp mates.
However, you shouldn't be able to drop and go in this game unless what you leave behind is subject to being tampered with by anyone. A player's AFK machine shouldn't have any kind of upperhand over a player being at their keyboard. As it stands other than capital ships the Mobile Tractor Unit has the longest Tractor Beam in the game. It locks in 10 seconds and with multiple MTUs out once a wreck or can gets pulled you cannot grab it even once the first MTU lets it go. A second MTU (which already has the object locked and has been attempting to tractor it the entire time) instantly, with inhuman speed grabs it and forces you to chase it down again.
So, as already stated before two things should happen:
1. Ship-mounted, player controlled Tractor Beams should override Mobile Tractor Units on abandoned wrecks and cans. If you want to beat a player at their keyboard you should have to be there directly competing with them, not competing through a proxy.
OR
2. Someone attacking a Mobile Tractor Unit should only be suspect flagged to the unit's owner, fleet and corporation. If you leave junk lying around clogging up the space lanes then there should be a downside. As it stands right now anyone can come to the aid of these AFK devices. This might also clean up places like trade hubs as less people will be setting and forgeting their trash in space. |
Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 00:41:58 -
[5] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:make MTU's lootable by anyone :)
but you still go suspect. scaredy cat.
This is also fine, but I figured the outcries from mission runners would be too great.
However, the main concern I have is with the fact MTU ping pong makes it an absolute pain to chase down abandoned wrecks that the MTU owners most likely don't have any intention of actually salvaging. |
Posting With Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 01:40:41 -
[6] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:
If you know in advance that you're competing against MTUs for abandoned wrecks, fly an appropriate ship. Or, shoot the MTU for a chance at the loot it's already taken.
Here's where the problem lies.
I'm not after the loot in the wreck; I'm after the wreck itself. I want to harvest it and clean space. That's what a salvager does.
MTU gangs make this seemingly simple task arduous, time consuming and for what you get out of it simply not worth it. When multiple people throw up gangs of MTUs on a gate or something, they're going after loot in the wreck. They know full well they aren't going to come back to a big heap of wrecks all packed together when there's 5 other MTUs in the area. In fact by the time they come back the wrecks have probably all disappeared. They don't care about the remains of the wreck at all.
The problem I'm attempting to address is MTU ping pong and the effect it has on salvagers.
-Make MTUs 'shut off' a certain period of time after the owner leaves system.
-Make ship-mounted Tractor Beams be able to rip empty abandoned wrecks from MTU tractor beams.
-Make the attacker's suspect flag only visible when the MTU's owner is out of system.
-Make MTUs emit some sort of "anti-MTU" sensor field that prevents MTUs from pulling wrecks from other MTUs.
I shouldn't have to lead the league in interceptions just to salvage a wreck while the MTU's owner is asleep, watching Netflix docked up in station, etc. or simply doesn't care about the salvage.
MTU ping pong is a menace and serves no actual purpose. The only way to stop it once it has started is to blow up all of the MTUs in the area, which takes forever (especially if white knights are abound). I've tried. Or much less time consuming option, but for what you get out of it still far too time consuming is to fit a MWD frigate and pretty much run the wrecks down or try to get in range with drones. With distances in excess of 50km, with multiple MTUs and factor in them all pulling different directions.... this also feels like it takes forever.
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