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Ryoken McKeon
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Posted - 2006.09.17 18:49:00 -
[1]
Can someone here remind me what the point of it is again?
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Pille Dufrais
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Posted - 2006.09.17 18:51:00 -
[2]
sure - to kill targets - whatever those targets may be. Then, maybe, to keep their loot.
more point to an average gatecamp than to your post tbh
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Clone Delta
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Posted - 2006.09.17 18:52:00 -
[3]
to pick off one or two ships that you greatly outnumber and out class?, to block off a chock point except to a corp?
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Ryoken McKeon
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Posted - 2006.09.17 18:53:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Clone Delta
to pick off one or two ships that you greatly outnumber and out class?, to block off a chock point except to a corp?
Fine, so put up a secured can on the other side saying "X-corp's territory, enter at your own risk."
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Ryoken McKeon
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Posted - 2006.09.17 18:53:00 -
[5]
I've been playing a month and a half, what worthwhile loot could i possibly be carrying in my cruiser...?
And I never claimed there was a point to this post----just made it out of frustration.
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Serious Bob
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:11:00 -
[6]
Losing a ship can hurt. Yes. 
Posting on the forum whilst "under the influence" is a bad idea though. Next time, scan the gate.
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Dupac
Corsets and Carebears
Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
I've been playing a month and a half, what worthwhile loot could i possibly be carrying in my cruiser...?
And I never claimed there was a point to this post----just made it out of frustration.
Most (all?) pirates at gatecamps do not have time to check your age, do not have the spare slots to cargo scan you and aware that you are going to warp off if you can. If you are part of a larger gang, coordinating everyone to stop shooting at the one time is difficult enough.
All of these factors combined make it very difficult to ransom people in anything smaller than a BC. Even then you have to sit tanking the sentries while they go through their purse :) and try and edge closer to the gate and freedom..........
Who knows if you are an alt, if you're carrying something nice on an escrow mission, if you have lots of named gear from running missions?
Much easier to kill them all and let the loot alt sort them out.
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
I've been playing a month and a half, what worthwhile loot could i possibly be carrying in my cruiser...?
And I never claimed there was a point to this post----just made it out of frustration.
No one usally checks how old you are. Hell I use to carry stuff in a shuttle so :P
-=====-
Xorus is teh nub :D
I heard that *beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar  - Xorus |
deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
Can someone here remind me what the point of it is again?
To create forum whining.
Seriously, nobody cares who you are, how old you are, or how crappy your ship is. I use alts to ferry my spoils of war (er, ganking, as it were) to market all the time. And I'm not alone in doing so, so the pirates (or whatever label for them makes you feel better about the situation) will gank anything they can lock, because you just don't know what's inside until you shoot it open and check 
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D2O HeavyWater
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:35:00 -
[10]
Try it asd see for yourself. Ya never know you might like it.
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.17 19:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
Can someone here remind me what the point of it is again?
Obviously you are new to eve so i shall explain it to you the various reasons why people gatecamp.
One reason is just to kill people just for ****s and gigles.
Another is to try and 'Claim' the system by gatecamping the gates and aptrolling the various locations such as belts planets stations etc.
another reason is to test out your combat setup.
Another is to be the gate PIRATE and take the loot [sometimes it does pay off or so im told].
ou see there are reasons to do gate camping and bear in mind this has been going opn for years now so its ahrdly going to go away. My advice is learn how t avoid such things in future and one day when you can destroy a gate camp or two for revenge [with some friends of course  ]
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Shiboline M'Ress
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Posted - 2006.09.17 20:25:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Shiboline M''Ress on 17/09/2006 20:27:09
Edited by: Shiboline M''Ress on 17/09/2006 20:26:58
So you found the hard way, one of the less pleasant features of EVE... Gatecampers...
Gatecamper : A player 'rat' unable or unwilling to fight in traditional pvp (either 1on1 or group). A gatecamper/s prefers when the odds are grossly in their favour, example: BS's camping a gate, sniping n00b ships, or ships unable to put much of a fight - industrial ships...
While there are Pirates (more traditional pvp, pk'r type player) scouting out belts and hunting pray, these are are going the way of the Dodo.
Advice: make your own gate to gate bookmarks (since buying and copying them is nearfed), and when you here people complaining about the use of said BM's you know they are Gatecampers, complaining that they actually have to work for a kill...
So when they complain, SMILE and show them the middle finger =]
Seiri na no? Napukin aru wa yo.
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.17 20:29:00 -
[13]
Why let your enemy cross the bridge and hide/move around, when you can catch them at the bottleneck and execute them there?
*shrug*
Izo Azlion.
---
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Necrosmith
Gallente
Wife lets me play corp
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:29:00 -
[14]
Killing you is the point.
Doing it with a little risk to yourself is the priority.
There is no honor, just blowing up or not. Gatecamping and attacking in numbers is the best way to make sure they blow up and not you.
When death hurts, people do what it takes to minimize the chance of it happening.
Best Regards,
--Necro
-------------
"Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." |
Jastra
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:40:00 -
[15]
it's cat and mouse, it's a game, and you're not alone in getting annoyed the first time or two, the best advice is to laugh it off, learn a little each time how to avoid it next time, it's a vital if annoying game dynamic that keeps everyone on their toes and provides a career path for PvP'ers, Anti Pirates, traders and manufacturers of WCS |
Scoundrelus
The Black Fleet
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:49:00 -
[16]
I wish to impart upon all of you a comparative note. Gatecamping is the pirates version of mining. How? Well Mining is boring, you sit in a belt and wait while your cargo fills with ore. Gatecamping, you sit on a gate and wait for people to come through so you can shoot and take their stuff. Both are done for profit purposes. Gatecamping is can be very profitable, yet it is boring. Pirates do it typically when they need money. So thus its something similar to pirate mining.
I personally have never gate camped and won't do so in the near future. There is nothing like the rush of finding someone at a belt at 5 degrees and warping in praying you'll land near him and he won't have stabs.
===============================================
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Locutus ofBorg
Caldari
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2006.09.17 22:37:00 -
[17]
I gate camp to get the poor SOB's loot and to recieve hate mail. Call me an ass but i live to ruin somebodies day.
Need a sig? Contact me ingame
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Brutus Julius
TEK Inc.
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.17 22:49:00 -
[18]
To keep enemies out of a system while a gang destroys the enemies POS
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Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.09.17 22:52:00 -
[19]
I was in the US Army, and we had a pretty hard and fast rule about 'If you don't outnumber them *at least* 3 to 1 and don't outgun them, then run away until you do'.
Bottom line is that gate camping/ganking = standard method by which humans fight.
If you think it is any other way, well your just wrong.
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Sepherim
Amarr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2006.09.18 01:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Sepherim on 18/09/2006 01:16:00
Originally by: Serious Bob
Losing a ship can hurt. Yes.
Posting on the forum whilst "under the influence" is a bad idea though. Next time, scan the gate.
How can you scan a gate before going? Can you do it from another system before crossing?
As for the military reference, I must correct it. That may be how the american army works, but not all armies work the same way. Spain defeated Napoleon's troops with small guerrilla warfare, which isn't based in that asumption but on surprise. Alexander the Great conquered empires with far more troops than his own. Germany had less troops in the Second World War than the sum of all their enemies, and still were victorious for several years. Strategy, hability, cunning, bravery, technology. This all adds up, not only sheer numbers.
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One Empire, One Emperor, One Faith, One Amarr... A Whole Universe Under One rule. |
Liegus
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Posted - 2006.09.18 01:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Karl Mord
I was in the US Army, and we had a pretty hard and fast rule about 'If you don't outnumber them *at least* 3 to 1 and don't outgun them, then run away until you do'.
What unit were you with? The 704th Weenie Corps? That'd make a great war movie.
Sgt. America: "OK men, we need to hold this hill at all costs. You hear me? We hold this ground or die trying. Unless they have guns or there are more than two of them. THEN we run away."
Men: *cheer* Good plan, Sir!
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ReePeR McAllem
Amarr
Caldari Deep Space Navy
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.09.18 01:53:00 -
[22]
Gate camping in 0.0 is to stop enemies invading your space. Gate camping in empire is for the same when war dec is on. Now though gate ganking in empire is where noobs slap on tachyon beam lasers and sit 150km from gates shooting at frigs and badgers etc. My gate gank consists of tanking the sents and engaging ships in combat.. alotta fun
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of Amarr qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others |
Ridley Tree
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Posted - 2006.09.18 01:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
Can someone here remind me what the point of it is again?
Why did bandits/theives hide along major travel routes and roads in the ancient world? Because thats where the people to rob are.
Why do pirates gate game? Because thats where the people to rob are.
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Ryoken McKeon
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Posted - 2006.09.18 02:11:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ryoken McKeon on 18/09/2006 02:12:20
Quote:
One reason is just to kill people just for ****s and gigles.
Ding ding ding, tell him what he wins alex.....
They had a warp bubble set up, they didn't engage me for about 30 seconds (i was hauling ass to try and get into an area where i could warp, and i'm assuming that during those 30 seconds they were looking at my info and at my ship) I even asked one of them and he said that it was just because he got a kick out of it.....
I can understand gatecamping for loot, or even for territorial reasons (but honestly, there you can give some ******* warning, especially when you have a goddamn bubble up), but wasting other people's time and money just for the hell of it is what most people call 'perverted' or 'sociopathic'. I should be used to this **** by now, i've been playing MMO's for 3 or 4 years now and I focus mostly on PvP, but I have never understood what people get out of this kind of thing. I guess it all goes back to what happens to people irl and taking out your frustrations on complete strangers...
This would **** me off less if it weren't for the time lag between us, it's going to be a year before I can even think about taking on any of these guys---and that's a *****.
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Ryoken McKeon
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Posted - 2006.09.18 02:30:00 -
[25]
Quote:
There is nothing like the rush of finding someone at a belt at 5 degrees and warping in praying you'll land near him and he won't have stabs.
That's rather amusing. You're basically saying "There's nothing like waiting to find out whether you'll get a kill with your lame gank or whether they'll escape your lame gank." While there is certainly more to that then there is to gatecamping, and while I have done that myself, it still isn't real pvp. There, all your doing is hoping your enemy (who will be engaged in other business, either ratting or mining) isn't ready to haul ass at the first sight of another player.
What should really be the exilherating question in this game is "Will there be 1 of them....or 5, and what will they be flying? Will they have the advantage or will I?"
Another thing I want to throw in here, is that it's a lot easier for people who have been playing for 1-3 years to tell me to "QQ more nub", when you can come back in 5-10 minutes in an HAC being backed up by a pair or three of battleships. Also, you know more about what gates are suicide to go through and which aren't, as such, you won't be in this situation as often, and when you are, you won't have any trouble getting some vengeance.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.09.18 03:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sepherim
Edited by: Sepherim on 18/09/2006 01:16:00
Originally by: Serious Bob
Losing a ship can hurt. Yes.
Posting on the forum whilst "under the influence" is a bad idea though. Next time, scan the gate.
How can you scan a gate before going? Can you do it from another system before crossing?
As for the military reference, I must correct it. That may be how the american army works, but not all armies work the same way. Spain defeated Napoleon's troops with small guerrilla warfare, which isn't based in that asumption but on surprise. Alexander the Great conquered empires with far more troops than his own. Germany had less troops in the Second World War than the sum of all their enemies, and still were victorious for several years. Strategy, hability, cunning, bravery, technology. This all adds up, not only sheer numbers.
erm.
Spanish troops defeated Napolean with guerilla tactics true. They used superior mobility however to force a local superiority in numbers fot the most part.
Germany didn't have as many troops true, but remeber, they all had uniforms, and weapons, which can't be said of the russians in the beginning of the war.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.09.18 03:44:00 -
[27]
The point of most gate camps is to momentarily empower the 30 year old geek doing the camping.
The point of the second most gate camps is to keep you out of soverien space.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Sosus Red
Caldari
Thunderbolts
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.09.18 03:55:00 -
[28]
Ive camped in 0.0 more than once. My thinking on 0.0 is if you go there you should always be prepared for a fight.
Low sec gate camping is lame though, imo.
Maybe those campers are bored or just cant hack it out in syndicate.
Listen to this cool stationwhile you play |
Zosimos Sabina
Amarr
Loot
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Posted - 2006.09.18 04:31:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Zosimos Sabina on 18/09/2006 04:31:55
You know what CCP needs to implement? Ship salvaging aka salvage corvette from Homeworld, not just wrecks.
1) Remove cans dropping from ships.
2) Implement a short-range, high slot module that allows you to force eject a pilot from their ship. It uses really expensive charges sold only by NPCs, thus making people ganking noobs and people in t1 cheap stuff not worth the bother. Using the module puts "points" on the ship, and once you reach a certain number of points (depending on ship class), the pilot is ejected from their ship. While you are doing this, the pirated guy is free to shoot back.
3) Everyone wins! No more - oh god all the t2/named was destroyed from the ship. Pirates learn to use ship/cargo scanner on the fly to determine profitability of taking over a ship. Brings low-sec piracy back to belts or under gate gun range. Maybe make logistics ships useful, to remote rep the salvager.
4) To prevent insurance fraud, make such ships unable to be insured in the future, and confiscated if they ever enter high-sec (trafficking in stolen goods mkay). Only way to prevent people trading ships and exploiting insurance money.
I'd vote for this tbh.
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Benglada
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.09.18 04:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
I've been playing a month and a half, what worthwhile loot could i possibly be carrying in my cruiser...?
And I never claimed there was a point to this post----just made it out of frustration.
i have about 25m worth of stuff on my thorax right now... answer your question?
---------------------------
Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.09.18 04:55:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Liegus
Originally by: Karl Mord
I was in the US Army, and we had a pretty hard and fast rule about 'If you don't outnumber them *at least* 3 to 1 and don't outgun them, then run away until you do'.
What unit were you with? The 704th Weenie Corps? That'd make a great war movie.
Sgt. America: "OK men, we need to hold this hill at all costs. You hear me? We hold this ground or die trying. Unless they have guns or there are more than two of them. THEN we run away."
Men: *cheer* Good plan, Sir!
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you watched some war movies. Did you watch the histroy channel and maybe some CNN too? Consume some propaganda targeted at making you feel like a tough guy for sitting their on your couch just one television screen away?
Yall just dumb. Really. The only thing your doing is whining about getting caught in an ambush and waxed.
Sit there all you want and call people all the names you want. Won't change the fact that you lost, and your gonna lose agian next time because your whining instead of figuring out what you did wrong.
They could change the game mechanics to dis-allow gate camping and it STILL wouldn't matter. People will just catch you out in some other unfair way and kill you just the same. Then you would whine about that too.
Its how humans fight. If you can't handle getting beat in an unfair manner, stop playing compeatitive games with other people. Thats your problem.
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Maria Ravenwind
Gallente
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.09.18 04:56:00 -
[32]
Ryoken, I understand your frustration. But as the rhetoric that is uttered in so many of the threads of this type goes: that's EVE. Thats what makes this game what it is.
Just remember you are never safe. Read the thread titled "secure Space" that's going on right now. He was in 0.9 and got fully baited into attacking someone and lost everything he had (supposedly).
Learn from him and learn how to get over it. It totally sucks, especially when you start out, but thats EVE. And if it doesn't suit your style, then you need to leave sooner than later to save yourself some trouble.
Now get out there! Insure your ship, make your clone up to date, and earn some isk! You will lose ships, everyone does. You just have to pick yourself up where you lost it, and start again. And do all that without whining of the forums and bringing out the flamers!
I hate my Exclamation mark!
I Am No Alt. |
tiller
Beer and Kebabs
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.18 05:37:00 -
[33]
Edited by: tiller on 18/09/2006 05:38:53
Originally by: Shiboline M'Ress
Advice: make your own gate to gate bookmarks (since buying and copying them is nearfed), and when you here people complaining about the use of said BM's you know they are Gatecampers, complaining that they actually have to work for a kill...
So when they complain, SMILE and show them the middle finger =]
Seiri na no? Napukin aru wa yo.
Could everyone please follow this advice, yes use instas they will save you 
hint: the camp is on the other side of the gate, well at least mine are. Only nub campers are on the insta side.
Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage |
F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.18 05:55:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
Can someone here remind me what the point of it is again?
To kill people and take their stuff.
It's all a statistics game. If you gank enough people in a high-traffic system, eventually you'll get "The Big Score." Unfortunately, you weren't that score, but you can never be sure who's carrying around officer loot or s T2 BPO in a shuttle/noob ship. If you just kill enough people, you'll eventually find the guy who does.
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
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Rick Dentill
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.18 08:40:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Rick Dentill on 18/09/2006 08:41:57
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Originally by: Sepherim
Edited by: Sepherim on 18/09/2006 01:16:00
Originally by: Serious Bob
Losing a ship can hurt. Yes.
Posting on the forum whilst "under the influence" is a bad idea though. Next time, scan the gate.
How can you scan a gate before going? Can you do it from another system before crossing?
As for the military reference, I must correct it. That may be how the american army works, but not all armies work the same way. Spain defeated Napoleon's troops with small guerrilla warfare, which isn't based in that asumption but on surprise. Alexander the Great conquered empires with far more troops than his own. Germany had less troops in the Second World War than the sum of all their enemies, and still were victorious for several years. Strategy, hability, cunning, bravery, technology. This all adds up, not only sheer numbers.
erm.
Spanish troops defeated Napolean with guerilla tactics true. They used superior mobility however to force a local superiority in numbers fot the most part.
Germany didn't have as many troops true, but remeber, they all had uniforms, and weapons, which can't be said of the russians in the beginning of the war.
They (the Spanish) also had Wellington and the British Army helping too, oh and the Portuguese.
The 3 to 1 thing is the preferred odds when attacking.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.18 08:43:00 -
[36]
whine whine winge whine whine whinge - have u joined a anti pirate corp to take down some of the issues.
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Estelle Matsuko
Caldari
The Beiatch Corp Inc
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Posted - 2006.09.18 09:22:00 -
[37]
The modern notion of "a fair fight" is one where you can bring the maximum number of your own forces to bear on the target whilst minimising the targets ability to fight back, thereby limiting your own potential casualties.
That rule is followed whenever and wherever possible by modern western field armies. Why should eve be any different?
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Bill Shankly
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Posted - 2006.09.18 10:05:00 -
[38]
to feel big when really the actual people doing it are *****s
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gfldex
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Posted - 2006.09.18 10:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
(but honestly, there you can give some ******* warning, especially when you have a goddamn bubble up)
warning
Savety is provided by proper scouting. That means you have to play with friends. But with your attitude I doubt you will find any.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.09.18 11:33:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Too Kind on 18/09/2006 11:34:45
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Why let your enemy cross the bridge and hide/move around, when you can catch them at the bottleneck and execute them there?
*shrug*
I like this explanation the most for 0.0.
Just to add: Anyone who thinks that he has CCP given travel rights in 0.0, just because he's a newbie, alone or whatever has a wrong idea about 0.0. If some people don't want to have another guy in the same system or going through, they are free to try to kill him. It's reason enough.
So all this talk about 'This is space with npc sovereignty !, we have a right to be here or to travel through' is worth nothing. You have the right to try to negotiate, speak with your guns or stay away in 0.0. That's all. Your skillpoints or that you are alone are no excuse. If someone says, he wants no neutrals in an area, he means it this way and doesn't care, if you are alone, a carebear or whatever.
--------------------------
Post with your main !!!111 |
Jack Creme
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Posted - 2006.09.18 12:42:00 -
[41]
Ryoken, you have to take a philosophical line with gate camps. They are as much a part of Eve as any other activity. They are operated by players doing what they want to do - just like everyone else - hence they are no more 'perverted' or 'sociopathic' than anyone else.
Don't think because I'm a nobody; my ship is worthless and I've nothing of value in my hold, that nobody will bother me. They sure will.
I hate gate camps. I've lost ships and cargo in them when I thought, "I'll be alright", and all you can do is grind your teeth and think, "Bah! "Now I got 3 weeks of missioning, mining or whatever to recover back the losses" They are a pain in the arse of your progress, chaotic and disruptive, but you have to deal with them. Learn how to; and when you do you get a small kick from it. Maybe a bit of smack on the way out - just for fun! But watch out for the next gate!
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Blitzkrieg
The Older Gamers
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.18 13:06:00 -
[42]
I do hate to gate camp and yet I do it too often as it is an efficient way of controling traffic in 0.0. What is annoying about it is the uncreative aspect of it, not to mention the lack of skills involved (ganking FTW :().
Most people, when they start to pvp, join gate camp, very few move on to the next level: roaming, solo skirmish ect...
That's a great shame as roaming pvp is the most fun and challenging type of pvp.
Imo CCP shld reinstal the random spawn point after jumping in a system like it used to be.
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Bernadett
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Posted - 2006.09.18 13:08:00 -
[43]
To have Black Nova Corp smear Reikoku's reputation |
Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.09.18 21:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Blitzkrieg
I do hate to gate camp and yet I do it too often as it is an efficient way of controling traffic in 0.0. What is annoying about it is the uncreative aspect of it, not to mention the lack of skills involved (ganking FTW :().
Most people, when they start to pvp, join gate camp, very few move on to the next level: roaming, solo skirmish ect...
That's a great shame as roaming pvp is the most fun and challenging type of pvp.
Imo CCP shld reinstal the random spawn point after jumping in a system like it used to be.
Problem is, they would have to be huge changes to the scanning and warping mechanics along with it to make it work.
Currently, gates are the ONLY point at which someone is somewhat vulnearable. If I'm in a system, I can just start warping between 3 points in system. I don't even need the points ahead of time. I just warp to a planet or asteroid belt and drop one or two BMs on the way, then warp to another planet and drop another BM, and then just start constantly jumping between them.
Look at that. I'm now invulnerable. I might as well log off at this point because it makes no practical diffrence.
If you could actually FIND someone who knows your looking for them, then yes, they could do something about gate camping. As it is, I look in local, I see somebody on the naughty list, and I pop my 100% invulnerability mode until they get bored and leave.
The only people you can hunt down aginst their will are people that are just plain stupid, ignorant or afk.
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Liegus
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Posted - 2006.09.19 01:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Karl Mord
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you watched some war movies. Did you watch the histroy channel and maybe some CNN too? Consume some propaganda targeted at making you feel like a tough guy for sitting their on your couch just one television screen away?
Yall just dumb. Really. The only thing your doing is whining about getting caught in an ambush and waxed.
Sit there all you want and call people all the names you want. Won't change the fact that you lost, and your gonna lose agian next time because your whining instead of figuring out what you did wrong.
I didn't *get* caught in an ambush. I taunted a troll back on the internet. (Which, arguably, *is* getting caught in an ambush, but oh, well.)
Flame all you want; I'm a veteran too and not so impressed by your 507th Weenie Corps background. (They seldom even *gave* us guns, but when they did, they taught us to dig in and shoot back and wait for the Marines, not to run away! ;) )
...and there I go again, taunting the dimwitted. I'll probably be punished in the afterlife ;)
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.19 02:42:00 -
[46]
Lazyness is why.
people wont goto the belts to pirate when they can just use overpowered T2 ammo and snipe you from 250km as you uncloak from the jump.
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Karl Mord
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Posted - 2006.09.19 03:02:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Liegus
Originally by: Karl Mord
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you watched some war movies. Did you watch the histroy channel and maybe some CNN too? Consume some propaganda targeted at making you feel like a tough guy for sitting their on your couch just one television screen away?
Yall just dumb. Really. The only thing your doing is whining about getting caught in an ambush and waxed.
Sit there all you want and call people all the names you want. Won't change the fact that you lost, and your gonna lose agian next time because your whining instead of figuring out what you did wrong.
I didn't *get* caught in an ambush. I taunted a troll back on the internet. (Which, arguably, *is* getting caught in an ambush, but oh, well.)
Flame all you want; I'm a veteran too and not so impressed by your 507th Weenie Corps background. (They seldom even *gave* us guns, but when they did, they taught us to dig in and shoot back and wait for the Marines, not to run away! ;) )
...and there I go again, taunting the dimwitted. I'll probably be punished in the afterlife ;)
'They' seldom even 'gave' you guns... Riiiiight.
The part that amuses me is your sitting there implying that I'm stupid for pointing out that *real tactics* operate on the exact same principal that gate camps do.
Your so busy trying to show me how clever you are by repeating tired implications about how I'm supposed to be stupid, that you totally failed to track the actual point.
The point being, that trial and error has hard coded the principal of 'zomgunfairgankygankgank' into human instincts, and thousands of years of social development has taught us how to do it really well, because it works *really* good.
So there we go. Human nature as it relates to fighting in a nutshell: Run away until you outnumber them, then kill them before they can run away until they outnumber you.
That is exactly how gate camps work.
Run away until you outnumber them: They hide and don't attack anyone until they have enough people or guns to easily over-power anyone they exect to come along, at which point they warp to the gate and set up shop.
Kill them before they can run away: Drop a bubble by a gate, and then quickly over-power anyone that gets stuck before they can flee.
The only people that seem to have a problem with this are the folks that simply fail at warfare on the most basic instinctual level.
So what we are really stuck with is the sad reality that human beings who fail right down to a genetic level, tend to whine about it a lot. Which as a side note, explains the whole 'emo' thing.
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Sadist empirealt
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Posted - 2006.09.19 03:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Locutus ofBorg
I gate camp to get the poor SOB's loot and to recieve hate mail. Call me an ass but i live to ruin somebodies day.
How often do you get hate mail? I know i've never once gotten a single mail, most was some awkward smack in local. Can you mail me some examples?
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Sadist empirealt
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Posted - 2006.09.19 03:12:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Sadist empirealt on 19/09/2006 03:12:12
del plz
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Kedar Lwmys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.19 03:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Karl Mord
[snip]
The part that amuses me is your sitting there implying that I'm stupid for pointing out that *real tactics* operate on the exact same principal that gate camps do.
Your so busy trying to show me how clever you are by repeating tired implications about how I'm supposed to be stupid, that you totally failed to track the actual point.
The point being, that trial and error has hard coded the principal of 'zomgunfairgankygankgank' into human instincts, and thousands of years of social development has taught us how to do it really well, because it works *really* good.
So there we go. Human nature as it relates to fighting in a nutshell: Run away until you outnumber them, then kill them before they can run away until they outnumber you.
That is exactly how gate camps work.
Run away until you outnumber them: They hide and don't attack anyone until they have enough people or guns to easily over-power anyone they exect to come along, at which point they warp to the gate and set up shop.
Kill them before they can run away: Drop a bubble by a gate, and then quickly over-power anyone that gets stuck before they can flee.
The only people that seem to have a problem with this are the folks that simply fail at warfare on the most basic instinctual level.
So what we are really stuck with is the sad reality that human beings who fail right down to a genetic level, tend to whine about it a lot. Which as a side note, explains the whole 'emo' thing.
The part that amuses me is that people even consider (losec) gate camping as being even similar to a military operation, when what it is is a bunch of thugs waiting to rob and murder anyone who passes by, it's not about tactics or militarism, it's about criminals trying to make as much as they can off the helpless.
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c0rn1
Seraphin Technologies
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.19 03:42:00 -
[51]
gatecamps are the simplest form of PvP. I personally hate them pretty much because it's boring and less challenging but for territorial purposes very important. Even I do think that those wannabe PvPer aka gatecamper in 0.1-0.4 actually do not deserve those kills and vastly p1ss off newbs.
But Eve is a competetive game so you have to learn and adapt or you will be killed over and over and over until you quit.
95% of eve involves thinking about what you are doing right now and if you do it efficiently. This is not some game like WoW were you basically reduce your brain power into a standby mode and just do mission after mission after mission with no PLAYER enforcing you to face hism/her.
Conclusion:
Don't take it as something personal against you or grieve. Take it as a (wo)man, don't whine and most of all as a brain starter.
regards
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
-V- Diplomat
-V- High Council Member
Life's a waste of time ... |
nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.19 04:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kedar Lwmys
Originally by: Karl Mord
[snip]
The part that amuses me is your sitting there implying that I'm stupid for pointing out that *real tactics* operate on the exact same principal that gate camps do.
Your so busy trying to show me how clever you are by repeating tired implications about how I'm supposed to be stupid, that you totally failed to track the actual point.
The point being, that trial and error has hard coded the principal of 'zomgunfairgankygankgank' into human instincts, and thousands of years of social development has taught us how to do it really well, because it works *really* good.
So there we go. Human nature as it relates to fighting in a nutshell: Run away until you outnumber them, then kill them before they can run away until they outnumber you.
That is exactly how gate camps work.
Run away until you outnumber them: They hide and don't attack anyone until they have enough people or guns to easily over-power anyone they exect to come along, at which point they warp to the gate and set up shop.
Kill them before they can run away: Drop a bubble by a gate, and then quickly over-power anyone that gets stuck before they can flee.
The only people that seem to have a problem with this are the folks that simply fail at warfare on the most basic instinctual level.
So what we are really stuck with is the sad reality that human beings who fail right down to a genetic level, tend to whine about it a lot. Which as a side note, explains the whole 'emo' thing.
The part that amuses me is that people even consider (losec) gate camping as being even similar to a military operation, when what it is is a bunch of thugs waiting to rob and murder anyone who passes by, it's not about tactics or militarism, it's about criminals trying to make as much as they can off the helpless.
Well I remember the coment from my Sgt being "the best place to shoot some one is in the back from cover before he knows you are there" and before youask no I am not american.
I would take a guess the 3 to 1 ratio is about attacking a prepaired postion or dug in troops.
I would guess from your comments you were/are navy?
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Liegus
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Posted - 2006.09.19 05:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Karl Mord
'They' seldom even 'gave' you guns... Riiiiight.
Yes, Real Military People(tm) do not, in fact, walk around armed all day, unless they have a need to carry weapons.
Originally by: Karl Mord
The part that amuses me is your sitting there implying that I'm stupid for pointing out that *real tactics* operate on the exact same principal that gate camps do.
Actually, that's the least stupid bit of your multiple postings. Waving the Captain America flag to show how great gate camping, or mushroom picking, or gold farming, or whatever other kind of insane thing goes on in an online game, is... is insane. It's great propaganda for anyone who thinks Americans are all kooks, but otherwise it's just insane.
Originally by: Karl Mord
Your so busy trying to show me how clever you are by repeating tired implications about how I'm supposed to be stupid, that you totally failed to track the actual point.
The point being, that trial and error has hard coded the principal of 'zomgunfairgankygankgank' into human instincts, and thousands of years of social development has taught us how to do it really well, because it works *really* good.
Well, I must admit to having a 'zomgunfairgankygankgank' deficiency. I had to copy and paste that word because it's so deranged. Perhaps this means I'm a member of an inferior species, bereft of the many benefits of 'thousands of years of social development'. Time will tell, I suppose.
Originally by: Karl Mord
So there we go. Human nature as it relates to fighting in a nutshell: Run away until you outnumber them, then kill them before they can run away until they outnumber you.
Works for monkeys. Why not for us? Of course, as abovementioned, I'm under-evolved.
Originally by: Karl Mord
That is exactly how gate camps work.
Run away until you outnumber them: They hide and don't attack anyone until they have enough people or guns to easily over-power anyone they exect to come along, at which point they warp to the gate and set up shop.
Kill them before they can run away: Drop a bubble by a gate, and then quickly over-power anyone that gets stuck before they can flee.
So they're easily amused? And they like killing one virtual person every few hours or so? Who cares? Maybe associating yourself with monkeys-who-have-sticks is not exactly the image you're looking for?
Originally by: Karl Mord
The only people that seem to have a problem with this are the folks that simply fail at warfare on the most basic instinctual level.
I guess I fail at warfare. Funny thing, what an easy thing it is to shoot back at folks who are already shooting at you. Perhaps you should go *be* in a war and see what happens when people get shot instead of comparing that unfortunate situation with the silliness of an online game.
Originally by: Karl Mord
So what we are really stuck with is the sad reality that human beings who fail right down to a genetic level, tend to whine about it a lot. Which as a side note, explains the whole 'emo' thing.
While I look forward to being your correctional officer someday, I still feel obligated to warn you that 'failure to want to kill people' is only a serious failure when two groups of people are already actively trying to kill each other. Aaaaaaand I do still feel obligated to mention once again that this is an online game which is played by people of all nationalites, many of whom are not crazy, and you are poisoning their perception of what Americans are.
And that annoys me, because I believe my country still contains some people who aren't ********s.
Bottom Line: Dragging your country and military into your fricking online game is inappropriate and offensive. Especially to people who are citizens of your country and veterans of your wars.
I appreciate your point that people like to kill each other without getting killed themselves... it makes sense at its most basic level, but you're really digging a hole for yourself with the whole US Army angle :P
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Guildless Gwynn
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Posted - 2006.09.19 12:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Karl Mord
I was in the US Army, and we had a pretty hard and fast rule about 'If you don't outnumber them *at least* 3 to 1 and don't outgun them, then run away until you do'.
Bottom line is that gate camping/ganking = standard method by which humans fight.
If you think it is any other way, well your just wrong.
If that had been the rules back when; the Germans would've run away from the overwhelming pitchfork weilding army of russia.
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The Colonel
Caldari
Fallschirmjager
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.09.19 13:11:00 -
[55]
the 3 to 1 ratio is common military doctrine for consideration when planning attacks on prepared positions. Of course it doesn't apply it defending, as you rarely know the composition of an attacking force.
I don't care about the other issues here, it's a often duplicated whine thread straight out of May 2003, won't ever change. But that particular point was bugging me.
And you made me post on these god awful forums about it
(oh yeh I was in the 112th weenie corp, I win.)
Forum |
nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.19 15:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Guildless Gwynn
Originally by: Karl Mord
I was in the US Army, and we had a pretty hard and fast rule about 'If you don't outnumber them *at least* 3 to 1 and don't outgun them, then run away until you do'.
Bottom line is that gate camping/ganking = standard method by which humans fight.
If you think it is any other way, well your just wrong.
If that had been the rules back when; the Germans would've run away from the overwhelming pitchfork weilding army of russia.
Damm forums...
Well the germans did lose that war so your point is what exactly?
At the begging the germans had the advantge of better tactics/training/firepower but the russians hung on long enuff for the differance in equipment to be addressed thus the germans ended up facing a larger army with equipment that was as good (and in some cases better) as their own.
If they had won then your point would be a lot better. Granted the above is a pretty simple explination, but it is a fairly accurate one for what it addresses.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.09.19 17:23:00 -
[57]
Gate camps are a piece of **** to beat - you just need a n00b alt (preferably a second account) to jump through ahead. If he ends up in the clone bay, it isn't a good idea for your main to go through. Also have "turnaround" marks 1/2 way in each system, so your main can warp right there and wait for your alt to scout the next gate. Shame you need 2 characters to do it (gate scanning technology should be able to "tunnel" across to see the other side). I made many trips through D2 when Bob, Shinra and the Hobbitses were camping it using this method. There are always times when the camp is non-bubbled or minimal and easy to get through.
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Velsharoon
Gallente
Corsets and Carebears
Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.09.19 17:29:00 -
[58]
Pirate gate camps are like military operations, just with more mucking around and alcohol. Well maybe just on the same level. Point is while we are just thugs there to take your stuff, not fighting for some higher moral such as claiming a slice of 0.0 *laugh* and dont pretend to be otherwise. But to tar all pirates with the same brush is like me saying all agent runners or miners etc are noobs, some are and some arent.
Our gate camps will always fall back if an opposing force comes along, unless we think we have a decent chance to kill them then we engage. So karl isnt far off the mark.
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Paul Castrin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.09.19 17:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon
They had a warp bubble set up, they didn't engage me for about 30 seconds (i was hauling ass to try and get into an area where i could warp, and i'm assuming that during those 30 seconds they were looking at my info and at my ship) I even asked one of them and he said that it was just because he got a kick out of it.
Ok, so you went into .0 space and expected what? Free passage? Why?
How many posts here have said that going into .0 space is not for the weak or timid? It takes instas, and very often a lot of luck or friends near to make it safely through. Even then there is no promise of success.
Zero space is the wild west of EVE where alliances hold sway. And yes those on gates are there because they enjoy shooting people foolish enough to trespass. Some get a big kick out of it; others do it just because itĘs part of being in an alliance. The delay on shooting you however is probably more because those there were asking others if you were friend or foe so get over the thought of them "looking" at you and sizing you up. You were dead the minute you entered .0 with out a plan.
Prior planning prevents poor performance.
Next time try asking around. Check the alliance forums here on who is in control of what .0 space regions. Use your map and see how many ships have been destroyed along your path. Maybe next time you wonĘt get shot at or at least be warned off from something foolish like jumping into a gate camp.
Consider this a learning experience and move on.
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Olsen'Kra
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Posted - 2006.09.19 18:25:00 -
[60]
Gatecamping... how can you say no to near lag free "combat". I use the term combat loosely.
No POS ping pong, and no GM cease fires. Ahhhh pure bliss.
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Trem Sinval
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Posted - 2006.09.19 19:38:00 -
[61]
Originally by: nahtoh
At the begging the germans had the advantge of better tactics/training/firepower but the russians hung on long enuff for the differance in equipment to be addressed thus the germans ended up facing a larger army with equipment that was as good (and in some cases better) as their own.
Let's go WOT.
Germany had the manpower, the equipment, and the training to stomp the puny Russian army into the ground, and they did. In point of fact, elements of the German army were within literal stones-throw of Red Square before they received the withdrawl order.
Germany commited 2 mortal military sins. First, they tried to fight a 2-front war, when they clearly did not have to (this is the point at which ******'s insanity began costing the campaign dearly). Second, they severely underestimated the logistical capabilities of the German army through the Russian tundra. You see, Russia was saved in large measure by a particularly harsh winter storm, that made getting men and supplies to the front next to impossible.
Russian equipment was never equal to it's German counterpart. Never. Russia won on a policy of overwhelming force; they simply had more conscripts to throw into the meatgrinder than did Germany at that point. Rush a machinegun with enough pointy sticks, and someone's bound to make it through (see: Russian deathtolls).
Now, back to gatecamping:
Camps are for weenies. I say this with a temper, though, in that camping sometimes has valuable territorial benefits. So, an alliance camp for the purpose of locking a system down is alright (these are usually the camps that will ask you to leave before blowing you up). But by and large, most of the camping that goes on, especially in low-sec, is simple griefing, because everyone's looking for the 2.12879129378 x 10 ^ -42 cm E-Peen(tm) increase from another killmail they can post to their adolescent killboards.
A real solution: get rid of killmails (and killboards, by extension). Then we should see more meaningful usage of the tactic, instead of the CS awp crowd tittering away madly as they enter the nights' "kills".
- Trem
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Cailais
Amarr
THE SEFRIM INSTITUTE
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:12:00 -
[62]
Quote:
point at which ******'s insanity
A historical figure is censored? How bizarre.
Drawing anologies between military historical precedence is likely to fail as there are to many variables accounted for in 'real world' conflicts. The 3 to 1 ratio for attacker vs defender is a typical quote, but not generally accepted as defined doctrine. By the application of manouver warfare (and thats not simply limted to 'moving around warfare') it is quite feasible for a numericaly inferior force to defeat a numericaly superior force with all thingS (equipment etc) being equal.
I would agree though that the ability to identify 'gate camps' at range (i.e beyond 1 system) without forward scouts is a problematic one atm. Gate Camps are to all extent and purposes ambushes, and they rely upon surprise and intense bursts of concentrated fire to achieve their aim.
The dificulty is that a large proportion of players see this 'ambush' as unfair, as they perceive that there is relatively little counter to it. Now I would also agree that there are counters (map interface, forward scouts) to the gate camp. I for one am intrigued to see how the 'seemless zoom map' proposed for kali will effect the frequency of Gate Camps: I believe that the map interface will become more intuitive and used more as a result of these changes and as a result gate camps will become proportionately less effective: Quite simply players will see the ambush coming.
C.
www.sefrim.com
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coldplasma
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:29:00 -
[63]
Cry more. Gatecamps are everywhere and they are a very useful game mechanic for securing bordors.
____________________________
See you in 0.0 kids... |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:41:00 -
[64]
"Cry more. Gatecamps are everywhere and they are a very useful game mechanic for securing bordors."
Heh, you actually provide a great reason why gate camping should be removed, and/or made much less effective. Last I heard 0.0 was supposed to be the furthest thing from secure, empire is for people who like secure. It should NOT be easy to secure the border of such a large area as 0.0 corps/alliances currently can. Gate camps are so effective that when ratting in alliance space i am more secure and safe than i am when doing stuff in empire as war targets can be anywhere and everywhere, as opposed to 0.0 alliance space where i am safely tucked away in carebearland as a gate camp or 2 prevent most any chance of a enemy making his way to me.
0.0 is currently the carebear mode in EVE, things need to change to make it the risky and dangerous contested area it was ment to be.
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Roulette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
0.0 is currently the carebear mode in EVE, things need to change to make it the risky and dangerous contested area it was ment to be.
QFT
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nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.19 21:15:00 -
[66]
Edited by: nahtoh on 19/09/2006 21:15:34
Originally by: Trem Sinval
Originally by: nahtoh
At the begging the germans had the advantge of better tactics/training/firepower but the russians hung on long enuff for the differance in equipment to be addressed thus the germans ended up facing a larger army with equipment that was as good (and in some cases better) as their own.
Let's go WOT.
Germany had the manpower, the equipment, and the training to stomp the puny Russian army into the ground, and they did. In point of fact, elements of the German army were within literal stones-throw of Red Square before they received the withdrawl order.
Germany commited 2 mortal military sins. First, they tried to fight a 2-front war, when they clearly did not have to (this is the point at which ******'s insanity began costing the campaign dearly). Second, they severely underestimated the logistical capabilities of the German army through the Russian tundra. You see, Russia was saved in large measure by a particularly harsh winter storm, that made getting men and supplies to the front next to impossible.
It also led to equipment failures as well. Quote:
Russian equipment was never equal to it's German counterpart. Never.
T34s might not have bettered the very top line in German tanks, but it did outclass/equal most german tanks till the Panther was brought into servce. Quote:
Russia won on a policy of overwhelming force; they simply had more conscripts to throw into the meatgrinder than did Germany at that point. Rush a machinegun with enough pointy sticks, and someone's bound to make it through (see: Russian deathtolls).
Stalins purge of the officer corps did not help...nor as you pointed out did Germanys over reaching themselves by attacking russia in the first place. Quote:
Now, back to gatecamping:
Camps are for weenies. I say this with a temper, though, in that camping sometimes has valuable territorial benefits. So, an alliance camp for the purpose of locking a system down is alright (these are usually the camps that will ask you to leave before blowing you up). But by and large, most of the camping that goes on, especially in low-sec, is simple griefing, because everyone's looking for the 2.12879129378 x 10 ^ -42 cm E-Peen(tm) increase from another killmail they can post to their adolescent killboards.
A real solution: get rid of killmails (and killboards, by extension). Then we should see more meaningful usage of the tactic, instead of the CS awp crowd tittering away madly as they enter the nights' "kills".
- Trem
Gates are the only real "terrain feauture" in Eve combat, so they are going to be defended and they will be main fearures of allaince warfare. Even when jump portals etc get in the game as you still need to get that first ship in the system or past the choke point.
NBSI policys are weapons loose...if its not allied kill it
if its red shoot it policy is weapons tight...if its not hostile don't kill it. Both are valid tactics NBSI is unfortunety easir to do than the other in eve.
As for pirates? its a pure predator vs prey ground, you may find them at roid fields/stations But you are pretty much sure to get them at gates eventually.
Predators tend to take the easy option 
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
GrumpyCat
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Posted - 2006.09.19 21:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Heh, you actually provide a great reason why gate camping should be removed, and/or made much less effective. Last I heard 0.0 was supposed to be the furthest thing from secure, empire is for people who like secure.
Risk vs Reward. If you want to pirate in 0.00 and get your guns on faction fitted t2 mining ships and other nice loot, you have to take a risk. If you could come and go to 0.00 with little or no risk, that would break the eve risk vs policy paradigm.
Want to pirate in 0.00 and get nice loot. Deal with risk of loosing your ship to a gate camp. Don't like it, stick to the empire with the rest of the noob pirates.
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Jack Creme
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Posted - 2006.09.20 07:51:00 -
[68]
Good point Nanobotter Mk2. Good point.
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