I apologize profusely for so transparently thinking myself the smartest man in the room by far (though to be fair, the competition is not very robust).

Cloaks are very OP. I sold 40k nanite repair paste last week. Producing them in null-sec was about as risky as station trading in Jiita.

But the thread topic is afk cloaky camping. Which should simply be removed. Perhaps in a manner that does not inconvenience you personally more than slightly. But I could live with you being considerably inconvenienced.

Lugz
afk cloaky camping is a problem because it targets newer players (the idiots who actually depend on ratting and mining to fund peak time pew-pew fun); done free of cost by established, optimizing pilots

Actual carebears like me want cloaks protected so pesky pilots don't interfere with our rolling in PI and moon goo bling.

This is in other words one of my anti elitist prick (as in needle point collateral damage) rampages. You have heard them before in game.

Privileges to which they have become accustomed. Screw (as in rotate to tighten or loosen things. for example a lid or a bolt) that :D.

Another Local Vote CCP?? First local removal was really close. or was it the 2nd.

Its an issue. Specifically the AFK bit. Or to put it another way. The cloaky camping risk should be explicit. Someone doing it should be actively looking to blop someone (or otherwise engage). Or otherwise get hunted down for stupidly being afk while in space in null-sec.

We have been over the list of options to people being camped and it is never enough.

Having to rat in a group...OMG no!!! Having to mine in a group, OMG no. Get on comms? Are you crazy?!?! Standing fleet? That is completely outrageous. Move over as system? My ISK/hour!!!!!

Nullsec is a carebear paradise. Or to put it another way. Have you caught any blockade runners recently?

I am not against a dangerous null-sec (you caught the afk cloaky camping drone thought?). I am just against a dangerous null-sec for some like it is now.

Jerghul,

If you are running a reaction POS set up and making ferrogel...how much ferrogel will you make in an hour? If you run it for a week, 168 hours, how much ferrogel will you have? How much of your output can you fit in your blockade runner, assuming it is fit for max cargo space? How many trips will you have to make each month to get your ferrogel to market in Jita?

Please explain how removing local makes cloaks less invulnerable to detection than they are now? Seems they get stronger in wormholes, not weaker.

Unless you mean that's the trade-off you are willing to consider? I mean... How would you deal with the fallout. The local roster was put in for good reasons, and is vital for many things. Surely you have a plan that does not turn all of EvE into wormholes only worse?

Considering how much of your contribution to the topic has been extreme mental gymnastics involving how cloaks *must* stay invulnerable to all detection lest we break titans, fleet ops, wormholes, and God knows what else, I would have thought an inane 'remove local' response that implies it would balance something would be pure poison for your agenda.

Well, you are partially right, but not in a significant way. The cloaked pilot still gets to wander up and take a look at the ratter he wants to tackle while risking very little himself- assuming his goal was to tackle anyone. The cloaker is also still immune to being probed, while the others in local are not, so he can drop his cloak once an hour or so to launch probes, and then just scan whenever he wants.

End result is that he is at an even greater advantage as before, as no one will be able to detect him, while he knows who and what is in system from his invulnerable safe spot. If he's not caught on the gate, he won't be caught unless he chooses to involve himself personally in the fight. Unless the system is cynojammed he can bring in any friends he wants after assuring himself no one else is in system, have them log off, and be perfectly capable of risk free kills practically at will having completely circumvented all defensive measures of the system.

Kinda the fallout I was alluding to. If by delayed local you mean the gate cloak keeps you out of local, or perhaps a 10-15 second lag, that's workable. If you mean the delayed local of wormholes, that's not a good idea.

His risk goes up if he is an idiot. I mean, I suppose he could warp around and look on grid at everything, but he could also just launch some probes and cloak back up, know right where everything was. I mean, no one ever manages to warp at range while cloaked so as to not bump into their target or anything. Ships with cloaks die all the time. Cloaked ships only die to extreme bad luck and pilot error once once in a long while. Citing the vulnerability of a ship that cannot use the cloak it has equipped is no where near proving the vulnerability of a cloaked ship.

The point of the cloak is stealth enabled game play.

There is a pretty wide gulf between enabling stealth and providing 100% unbreakable stealth.

But just to be clear, Lugburz, you see cloaks as they are currently as being in some way underpowered? I mean, removing Local is a pretty huge buff to stealth gameplay as a whole--- not just to people with cloaks turned on. No Local with a Cloak is one of the reasons Wormholes are so unpopular, almost as much as the PITA that navigating them are.. You want that across the whole game?

Everyone, everywhere, pressing Dscan every 5 seconds unless they are in a fleet with one unfortunate soul cursed with the duty? I suppose it would highlight the value of a good scanner, and create a whole new realm of awful with those Scan Inhibitors.

So you really do think those hiding under a cloak should be immune to outside interference until they choose otherwise.

Care to justify that?

Teckos... sometimes you are engaging to discuss things with, and sometimes you are just hammering away at the same tired, debunked, and fatally flawed drivel that has plagued this discussion since before this thread was a thing.