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Keno Skir
729
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:09:03 -
[61] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Your wrong sense of superiority against trolls
There is no such thing as a "wrong" sense of superiority OVER trolls, but you are entitled to your opinion
And Solops it just seems you are continually shoving forward a game breaking idea despite having had it explained 20 ways by as many people all the ways it won't be good for the game you claim to love.
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
44
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:09:05 -
[62] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sahas post takes the wind out of his thread, leaving the remaining respondents to be either thick as pig shite or trolling.
Whos Sahas is he or she part of the Playerbase? Is he a troll or trying to derails OPs Thread. Theres something wrong when a New player Has to say "I know I will get flamed by the old salty crusty veterans for posting this but I do not care." at least he dosnt care maybe some old bitter folk should resign and step down just like Mittani did Remember Trolls and flamingin forums is Prohibited so please lets keep this civil and to point of the thread maybe i should volunteer for CCL and swing the Baton on these forums.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1201
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:13:13 -
[63] - Quote
Someone ganked your punctuation. If I were you I'd go find them and get that stuff back. Stop badtouching English.
It is dark here. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
251
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:15:24 -
[64] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sahas post takes the wind out of his thread, leaving the remaining respondents to be either thick as pig shite or trolling.
Whos Sahas is he or she part of the Playerbase? Is he a troll or trying to derails OPs Thread. ShahFluffers,
Solops Crendravenp wrote:I assumeTheres something wrong when a New player Has to say "I know I will get flamed by the old salty crusty veterans for posting this but I do not care." at least he dosnt care maybe some old bitter folk should resign and step down just like Mittani did Remember Trolls and flamingin forums is Prohibited so please lets keep this civil and to point of the thread maybe i should volunteer for CCL and swing the Baton on these forums.
It's not trolling, or flaming, it's feedback. Negative feedback is neither trolling nor flaming because it's constructive. He said it himself (as you said), he'll probably get alot of flak from 'older players' but the truth is, we don't have to be bitter-vets to post on this thread (amazing, right?), in fact, I'd bet a lot of players who have only played for one year would disagree.
After all, we're entitled to our opinions just so much as you and the OP are. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8384
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:21:08 -
[65] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sahas post takes the wind out of his thread, leaving the remaining respondents to be either thick as pig shite or trolling.
Whos Sahas is he or she part of the Playerbase? Is he a troll or trying to derails OPs Thread. Theres something wrong when a New player Has to say "I know I will get flamed by the old salty crusty veterans for posting this but I do not care." at least he dosnt care maybe some old bitter folk should resign and step down just like Mittani did Remember Trolls and flamingin forums is Prohibited so please lets keep this civil and to point of the thread maybe i should volunteer for CCL and swing the Baton on these forums. 2013-06-05, thats only a couple of months younger than me, or you for that matter.
not a new player, just a misinformed one.
if you cant compete with the vets that really is just your problem.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Solecist Project
All Glory to the HypnoBoobs
14536
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:28:51 -
[66] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Your wrong sense of superiority against trolls There is no such thing as a "wrong" sense of superiority OVER trolls, but you are entitled to your opinion And Solops it just seems you are continually shoving forward a game breaking idea despite having had it explained 20 ways by as many people all the ways it won't be good for the game you claim to love. You don't even realise how this post underlines my words.
Opinions... lol ... your insecurity shows. Not only are you easy to manipulate ... ... you are too full of yourself to realise.
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
"I like the idea of them being spread out" - Mike Azariah, no context. ;)
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Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
252
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:39:41 -
[67] - Quote
'Solecist used Off-Topic Posting! Ferni became confused.'
'Ferni is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!' |
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
111
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Posted - 2015.01.10 10:53:42 -
[68] - Quote
The OP link of a graph showing the actual age of players, not the time they have been playing or even their skill points has nothing to do with his arguement. Eve is a complex game. Failure to understand the game machanics leads to failure in game. His woolly headed thinking in this arguement explains why he will never 'win' at EVE.
This is my signature, there are many like it , but this one is mine
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Andrea Portaro
Paxton Industries Tactical Narcotics Team
31
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:14:15 -
[69] - Quote
The thing you don't understand that EVE is about specialization mostly. If say you want to specialize in Assault Frigates and you get everything to 5 (assault frigates V *racial* frigate V, support skills etc) then you will be on par or even better with a decade veteran that maybe even hasn't still bothered in specializing there, and it won't take 10 years but some months. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1848
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:23:43 -
[70] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Ok so it indicates that the people who played from the start stay with it. What it also shows is that the people who weren't around for the launch of the game 11 years ago leave. In the final graph, if everyone who plays now played at launch, the difference between the median/mean values would be 11. If everyone who plays now started yesterday, the difference would be 0. The actual difference is 3. Given that we know a good portion of the playerbase has been around longer than that, a substantial number must also have been around for less than that.
To draw your conclusion you'd need numbers on change-in-age vs density anyway, which is not what we have.
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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Solecist Project
All Glory to the HypnoBoobs
14537
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:36:26 -
[71] - Quote
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:'Solecist used Off-Topic Posting! Ferni became confused.'
'Ferni is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!' *hugs* Please don't be hurt! :/
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
"I like the idea of them being spread out" - Mike Azariah, no context. ;)
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Keno Skir
729
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:37:52 -
[72] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Keno Skir wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Your wrong sense of superiority against trolls There is no such thing as a "wrong" sense of superiority OVER trolls, but you are entitled to your opinion And Solops it just seems you are continually shoving forward a game breaking idea despite having had it explained 20 ways by as many people all the ways it won't be good for the game you claim to love. You don't even realise how this post underlines my words. Opinions... lol ... your insecurity shows. Not only are you easy to manipulate ... ... you are too full of yourself to realise.
You're projecting a little bit now Sol. Secondly a bit of proper punctuation would make you sound a bit closer to how clever you'd like to be. It doesn't show insecurity to say someone can have an opinion, everyone has one, i merely disagree with yours.
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Hairtrigger
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2015.01.10 11:49:34 -
[73] - Quote
the only real advantage to havin over 200m sp is your ccp nerf proof as much as you can be.
they nerf your fave ship, you move over to another maxed out ship/style.
in terms of pvp a specialised 10m sp pvp'er would hand me my ass now |
Mashie Saldana
Lock'n'Point Warp to Cyno.
1509
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Posted - 2015.01.10 12:03:05 -
[74] - Quote
No, you're the problem. People like you are the problem. Bunch of whiners with no dedication.
I loved playing this game when I was a total noob. So much to learn, explore...
I have a friend who's got 7m sp and he's never complained about the fact that he doesn't have as much sp as me and right now he's blobbing with brave collective down in null, killing all kind of ships with his shitfit cruisers.
Eve is not for everyone I guess.
How to win EVE
Shiny eveboard
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1204
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Posted - 2015.01.10 12:05:50 -
[75] - Quote
But... this one goes up to 11!
It is dark here. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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Justice Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.01.10 12:50:57 -
[76] - Quote
OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. It's just a fact of this game. Someone who's been playing longer than you can do more than you, and out of the things you can both do, the player with more skill points in the relevant areas has the technical advantage. Again, just a fact of this game, despite what the forum warriors and try-hard comedians of General Discussion like to tell you.
How you feel about it is up to you. Personally I'm not bothered by it, and I don't feel like I'm owed some sort of catch-up mechanic. The way I see it is the skill system rewards you for keeping an active subscription, if not for actual time invested in the game. The rewards for that come in the form of ISK, relationships, and fun. |
Kestrix
Industrial Renaissance MinTek Conglomerate
154
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:17:18 -
[77] - Quote
OP is wrong. I've introduced players to this game who have now over taken me in SP. Skill points are not everything in eve, if all you want to do is mine then all you probably need is 10 - 15 million skill points. It's not a race. I have three races of battleships trained to 5 but i don't fly them, I have two races carriers trained to 5 but I don't fly these ether. Once you have achieved everything you want to do in eve skill wise training further skill points becomes meaning less. I guess I'll just keep on training skill points until I quit eve or their are no more skills left to train, it does not make me a better player than the OP.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8384
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:21:24 -
[78] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. each skill only goes to 5, every time you get a skill to 5 you just caught up to a vet.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
181
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:27:51 -
[79] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Justice Zeta wrote:OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. each skill only goes to 5, every time you get a skill to 5 you just caught up to a vet. Exactly. All that SP advantage does is allow the vet to change roles more easily, since he probably has the skills for his new job already at least partially trained. A newbro who specializes well will catch up to those lvl 5's in a single role fast enough, and in time will be able to train for other roles as well. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
554
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:31:40 -
[80] - Quote
Considering the core to PvP is 'blow stuff up because tears', I often wonder what the demographic of EVE is as well. It's one of those interesting contradictions in EVE Online. On the one hand, take painfully long times to plan and execute projects, then on the other **** it all away in a 30 second giggle moment.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1855
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Posted - 2015.01.10 13:36:48 -
[81] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. To think this, as someone who has actually used the skill system, requires you to not be able to count.
That's impressive.
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Jdsaf
Aliastra Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.01.10 14:39:34 -
[82] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:
Ok so what is my point? People flame me for it but I have said it time and time again that being new in this game is a joke.
People that start now feel worthless because they are. They will NEVER be on the same level as the vets because they weren't playing the game 11 years ago. Make it possible for people to catch up. EVERY game has a level cap, eve need something too. I understand that it wont be a lvl cap but I have no idea what the solution to this unhealthy trend. Level caps or other mechanics ALLOW people to catch up, this game lacks that. I realize implants exist but why should somebody have to pay that crazy, unrealistic amount of isk for them? Forcing the noobs to buy implants that cost as much as 2-3 navy or pirate faction cruisers makes no sense at all. It is that simple. Flame me if you will but this game needs an intervention on this topic or it will shrivel up and fade away. This graph proves my point.
It is not possible to catch up in all skills, but in 12 months I could get as good as possible in gallente cruisers for example. If I am then flying a gallente cruiser, I have caught up. So yes new players can catch up in their chosen specialization. |
Justice Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.01.10 14:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Justice Zeta wrote:OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. each skill only goes to 5, every time you get a skill to 5 you just caught up to a vet.
I obviously meant total skill points, please don't deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. |
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
295
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:22:03 -
[84] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Justice Zeta wrote:OP is correct in that you can't catch up with players who started training their skills years before you did. each skill only goes to 5, every time you get a skill to 5 you just caught up to a vet. I obviously meant total skill points, please don't deliberately misinterpret what I wrote. Total SP is irrelevant, it's what you do with what you have that matters. My 50M SP main is no better in a frigate than someone who has specialised in frigates by training the appropriate skills, probably worse tbh.
The only thing that more SP gives is choice.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Justice Zeta
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:32:51 -
[85] - Quote
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Total SP is irrelevant, it's what you do with what you have that matters. My 50M SP main is no better in a frigate than someone who has specialised in frigates by training the appropriate skills, probably worse tbh.
The only advantage that more SP gives is choice.
Having more choice in a sandbox MMO is quite a big deal, which is why total skillpoints is not irrelevant at all. People always like to reduce this argument to the 1v1 PvP scenario, or point to the newbie tackler who tips the balance in a large fight. I don't think anyone is saying someone with a few SP can't contribute in a meaningful way, but having a lot of SP allows you to do so much more, and that is what a new player has to accept when they start to play EVE. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
693
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:49:28 -
[86] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:People that start now feel worthless because they are. They will NEVER be on the same level as the vets because they weren't playing the game 11 years ago. Make it possible for people to catch up. EVERY game has a level cap, eve need something too. I understand that it wont be a lvl cap but I have no idea what the solution to this unhealthy trend. Level caps or other mechanics ALLOW people to catch up, this game lacks that. I realize implants exist but why should somebody have to pay that crazy, unrealistic amount of isk for them? Forcing the noobs to buy implants that cost as much as 2-3 navy or pirate faction cruisers makes no sense at all. It is that simple. Flame me if you will but this game needs an intervention on this topic or it will shrivel up and fade away. This graph proves my point.
And yet, people keep playing starcraft, counterstrike, league of legends, despite others having had years of experience...
If you think EVE skills is measurable in skill points, this is not the game for you.
You are basically saying that someone who only ever logs in for 10 years to put some skills in the skillqueue but never actually plays will be a better player than someone who actually played the game for a year. In what universe is this true?
I've been logging in for skills for 10 of the 12 years i've been here (including the last few), but when i log in i see people from 2012 and newer calling the shots and owning me in PvE, PvP and everything else. According to you, i should be absolutely crushing them 'because of stats', but i am not.
Skillpoints are not a measure of progress. Skill points are a measure of the time you've subscribed to the game, nothing more. You actually have to play the game, get experience and understand the game systems in order to progress.
If you don't understand that, EVE is not the game for you, plain and simple. In fact, no game is for you - Even if you get to level 100 in WoW, you will get absolutely CRUSHED by other level 100's in every single way unless you have the skill and experience to play at an equal level.
According to your logic, games without levels, in other words, games where everyone is at equal footing should mean that everyone plays at an equal level. I would love for you to prove that by winning a GSL or WCS in StarCraft 2 some time this year. And if you use the excuse 'but other players are more skilled and have had more practice' - The exact same is true in EVE.
So, instead of whining about skillpoints and stats, play EVE exactly as it was meant to be played. You are not going to be a great player on day 1, but you might be on day 100, or maybe 1000 - When you reach that point, you will know how silly your statements in this thread are.
[center]If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...[/center]
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
297
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Posted - 2015.01.10 15:51:23 -
[87] - Quote
Justice Zeta wrote:Having more choice in a sandbox MMO is quite a big deal, which is why total skillpoints is not irrelevant at all. Of course it is, there are only so many relevant SP to each ship class, any extra SP you may or may not have are irrelevant as they have no effect.
Quote:People always like to reduce this argument to the 1v1 PvP scenario, or point to the newbie tackler who tips the balance in a large fight. That's because those things are relevant to the discussion at hand, in a 1v1 the actual players skills and knowledge matter as much if not more than the characters SP.
Quote:I don't think anyone is saying someone with a few SP can't contribute in a meaningful way Agreed, someone with a small amount of SP can contribute in a manner disproportionate to the amount of SP they have.
Quote: but having a lot of SP allows you to do so much more A lot of SP opens up choices, not an "I win" button.
Quote:which is why it's understandable for a new player to feel somewhat behind the curve. The same is true in real life, most people leave school and start a career at the bottom, then work their way up. Passing a driving test doesn't mean you can instantly drive a supercar, or a bus, or an articulated truck, you work your way up to those things.
Life is unfair, Eve reflects that.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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Odeva Pawen
Aideron Robotics
15
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:05:36 -
[88] - Quote
So everyone is talking about how long people have been in the game, but...
That graph shows how old he actual people are who play, not how long they have been playing. Furthermore, I do not see how the median age of the player base means hat new players are not joining the game. It could just mean that older people are joining the game. |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
917
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:10:25 -
[89] - Quote
A silence sp boost post. To Be honest its not that sp is good or bad. It depends on how you play. To be correct a easy well fit noob ship can kill me even if iam allot older then new players. Because iam a noob in pvp and I don't know how to fight only some basic stuff like all non pvp players are. So you need to think it a little over. Eve is not always pvp only. And if I need to fight agains you I will lose even if I have way more sp than you. Catch my drift here?
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Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy Caldari State
297
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Posted - 2015.01.10 16:11:13 -
[90] - Quote
Odeva Pawen wrote:So everyone is talking about how long people have been in the game, but...
That graph shows how old he actual people are who play, not how long they have been playing. Furthermore, I do not see how the median age of the player base means hat new players are not joining the game. It could just mean that older people are joining the game. The whole thread was started by a misunderstanding, which turned into a "people have more SP than me, it's so unfair" fest
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
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