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Alli Ginthur
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
21
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Posted - 2015.01.10 21:46:01 -
[31] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Doesn't like change.
Wants it different.
"All that needs to be done is", meaning that he knows better than all of CCP combined.
Has no clue if his idea actually has any merit and rather wants CCP to figure it out themselves.
Excuses himself with "just my 2c".
So.... *checks card* Bingo? |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
9
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Posted - 2015.01.10 22:53:56 -
[32] - Quote
Cynos have ever been more of a problematic disengagement mechanic than one for engagement. In theory, a group could cast their forces far and wide to prevent capitals from escaping from a given area, but how often have you seen that actually take place? It's very impractical considering that most cynos only need to be up for a few seconds to fulfill their core function.
I'll accept the ability for capitals to rip holes in space to go whereever they wish.. so long as I can follow them. To this end, give the capital ships the ability to create K-K wormholes. Whatever the mass limit, they should have a minimum threshold time for being open, and an access range big enough to allow heavy ships to pursue.
Here's a new caveat this would introduce: No more precision cynos. That means no one step hotdrops, and no cynoing next to an engaged POS or other asset. The cyno exit would pretty much be a random point in the target solar system. Would it be broadcast system wide? I leave that as exercise for the developer.
For jump freighters, the need for precision cynos can only be addressed by jump bridges along the traditional highways. Jumping in within docking range of stations wouldn't be possible.
At the risk of digression, I'd prefer to see these difficulties revamped in a way that makes station or jump bridge environments more nuanced. I'd put them inside of deadspaces, but without acceleration gates. In this context, everyone has to slowboat. It should look rather majestic in my estimation.
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Altirius Saldiaro
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
264
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Posted - 2015.01.11 00:04:44 -
[33] - Quote
Ill say it again......if it has a jump drive or portal generator then it should be able to lock onto the Sun of the system it plans to jump to. |
Solecist Project
All Glory to the HypnoBoobs
14673
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alli Ginthur wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Doesn't like change.
Wants it different.
"All that needs to be done is", meaning that he knows better than all of CCP combined.
Has no clue if his idea actually has any merit and rather wants CCP to figure it out themselves.
Excuses himself with "just my 2c". So.... *checks card* Bingo? Looking at you, I can only agree! :D
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
"I like the idea of them being spread out" - Mike Azariah, no context. ;)
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5805
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:27:43 -
[35] - Quote
Capital ship locks on to target system's star and jumps into the system. Destination is randomly generated close to the star pretty much like a planetary launch. Star-jumping is a lot rougher on the systems than a cyno and incurs a higher jump fatigue. Also everybody gets their own destination spot, so a fleet is scattered around the star.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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EvilDoomer
Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union
1
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:32:13 -
[36] - Quote
Pyrasanth wrote:The changes in Jump travel distance mean that my Cyno toons have to travel with me. It is impracticable to have 30 cyno toons in station along the route I need to jump.
Is it time to consider if the cyno character & the beacon type jump is outdated and belongs to a previous age.
IMO Cap ships should just have the ability to jump to any system within range and not be tied to a character projecting a beacon. True freedom of movement should be possible with a ship of this class.
All that is required is to decide where the ships land in a system- perhaps random & off grid so it takes time to pull all the cap ships together & get into the action. I don't know about this issue. Needs exploring if the idea is valid.
This would offer flexibility & compensation for jump fatigue. The argument that CCP would loose revenue due to cyno alts unsubscribing is not really valid as I'm sure these alts could be put to better use in the game. I think most serious players would train up there cyno characters to have new functionality.
I think it would be much more exciting to be in a fight & have the risk of cap ships land than having a beacon lit which tells you where they are about to land.
It is just a thought to ponder on so don't flame me for thinking out aloud.
I dont think we should get rid of cyno alts. OR if so I want to setup Cyno mobile units that I can jump too.
But jump fatique is dumb and making owning and using caps no fun.
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
47
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:38:05 -
[37] - Quote
Pyrasanth wrote:The changes in Jump travel distance mean that my Cyno toons have to travel with me. It is impracticable to have 30 cyno toons in station along the route I need to jump.
Is it time to consider if the cyno character & the beacon type jump is outdated and belongs to a previous age.
IMO Cap ships should just have the ability to jump to any system within range and not be tied to a character projecting a beacon. True freedom of movement should be possible with a ship of this class.
All that is required is to decide where the ships land in a system- perhaps random & off grid so it takes time to pull all the cap ships together & get into the action. I don't know about this issue. Needs exploring if the idea is valid.
This would offer flexibility & compensation for jump fatigue. The argument that CCP would loose revenue due to cyno alts unsubscribing is not really valid as I'm sure these alts could be put to better use in the game. I think most serious players would train up there cyno characters to have new functionality.
I think it would be much more exciting to be in a fight & have the risk of cap ships land than having a beacon lit which tells you where they are about to land.
It is just a thought to ponder on so don't flame me for thinking out aloud. your Ideas arnt rubbish I gave up on cyno toons long ago. Because like you said it old and outdated like many other things in Eve however thats another thread. i dont knock CCP for trying to make changes so your opinion is valid it make more sense than the gibberish ive been reading on these forums.
Check Me Out!!! On Twitch Tv 24/7 enter link description here
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Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1950
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Posted - 2015.01.11 01:56:09 -
[38] - Quote
This idea keeps popping up but if your cap ends up somewhere in a random spot in a system, you still need an alt to scout.... So you might as well just have an alt with a cyno. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6050
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Posted - 2015.01.11 02:05:05 -
[39] - Quote
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Pyrasanth wrote: IMO Cap ships should just have the ability to jump to any system within range and not be tied to a character projecting a beacon. True freedom of movement should be possible with a ship of this class.
Were it up to me -ìall ships would be able to do this. Gates are a mechanic that only favors the play style of preventing others from playing the game. It's not helping to have a PVP game where everybody has to go through fatal funnels just to go anywhere (and then get told to pay for another sub to have a scout which is P2W and looks like a scam to new players). Or ..., you could try to work together with people and use the tools at your disposal to determine wether something's camped? Nah, who'd want to play together in a MMO, right?
Kaarus alt detected
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6052
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Posted - 2015.01.11 02:15:45 -
[40] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:Cynos have ever been more of a problematic disengagement mechanic than one for engagement. In theory, a group could cast their forces far and wide to prevent capitals from escaping from a given area, but how often have you seen that actually take place? It's very impractical considering that most cynos only need to be up for a few seconds to fulfill their core function.
I'll accept the ability for capitals to rip holes in space to go whereever they wish.. so long as I can follow them. To this end, give the capital ships the ability to create K-K wormholes. Whatever the mass limit, they should have a minimum threshold time for being open, and an access range big enough to allow heavy ships to pursue.
Here's a new caveat this would introduce: No more precision cynos. That means no one step hotdrops, and no cynoing next to an engaged POS or other asset. The cyno exit would pretty much be a random point in the target solar system. Would it be broadcast system wide? I leave that as exercise for the developer.
For jump freighters, the need for precision cynos can only be addressed by jump bridges along the traditional highways. Jumping in within docking range of stations wouldn't be possible.
At the risk of digression, I'd prefer to see these difficulties revamped in a way that makes station or jump bridge environments more nuanced. I'd put them inside of deadspaces, but without acceleration gates. In this context, everyone has to slowboat. It should look rather majestic in my estimation.
Lore-wise this sort of exists. The "Violent Wormholes" of the live event incursions were used by Sansha forces to raid systems. The wormholes were persistent during the events most of the time (though the players did mess with them). Nobody was able to use them except Sansha.
I think we will see a day when players will gain the ability to do that seeing that Sansha already can. It's only a matter of time, and the new sleeper content in known space (if we could go back to 2009 and tell people that sleepers would appear in highsec in 2014....) may lead up to that. Hit those sites and save that sleeper junk.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
1875
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Posted - 2015.01.11 02:47:02 -
[41] - Quote
Pyrasanth wrote:The changes in Jump travel distance mean that my Cyno toons have to travel with me. It is impracticable to have 30 cyno toons in station along the route I need to jump.
Is it time to consider if the cyno character & the beacon type jump is outdated and belongs to a previous age.
Stick cynos on your capital ships and leap-frog them. Win. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1674
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Posted - 2015.01.11 10:38:52 -
[42] - Quote
It is impracticable to have 30 cyno toons in station along the route you need to jump? Oh dear, poor little octopus... |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6129
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Posted - 2015.01.11 20:06:46 -
[43] - Quote
Pyrasanth wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:how about making friends with someone and sharing cyno alts? No problem with that but honestly- do you really like 20 cyno jumps & all the hassle behind it? Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you've missed the point.
Long distance travel for cap ships was changed precisely so it would become a hassle. Force projection had become a serious problem in EVE, with cap ship hot drops occurring halfway across EVE within a few minutes (or less).
Any long distance travel across EVE in a cap ship should be part of a larger effort, which means multiple cyno alts will be available... and even then progression won't be fast. The whole operation will need to be carefully planned, as large fleet operations should be.
For solo movement rely primarily on gate jumps and save your cyno hops for when you really need them.
View the latest EVE Online developments and War Thunder game play by visiting Ranger 1 Presents.
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Maeltstome
High Flyers The Kadeshi
627
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Posted - 2015.01.12 11:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
This raises a good point, since cyno's can be 'gamed' like many Mechanics. I'd like to see Capitals be a bit less reliant on the logistics that now hamper more then help them.
- You can drop a Cyno in docking range of a station, this makes jumping around very safe into hostile systems - You can activate self-destruct on your cyno ship, then with only a few seconds until it explodes light a cyno for a capital to jump to. This allows the cyno to appear and disappear almost instantly which doesn't make sense.
So with a few caveats, i'd say removing cyno's is a good idea.
*Caveats
- Cyno beacons can still exist, they will fuction as the currently do. - Jumping would involve picking a target system and then choosing to jump - When jump drive is activated, for 10 seconds prior to this, there is a beacon placed in system (RP it as a spacial disturbance or something, w/e). This beacon is visible on the star map like a cyno beacon and will remain for 5 minutes. - Once jump is pressed, there is a 10 second 'spooling-up' time before the jump happens. - When the jump completes, you are somewhere random in the target system* - The ship will land within 10KM of the beacon it creates. - Cloaking devices on the capital ship wont work for 30 seconds or so until after the jump is complete
*Fleet commanders can activate a 'Fleet jump' like a current fleet warp. All capitals will land withing 10KM of the beacon. If any individual pilot is out of range, the jump will fail for them.
Sounds much more interesting and easy for solo pilots without allowing large alliances to really abuse current cyno mechanics.
Titan Jump bridges would require serious discussion as to how best to use them, e.g. should they require a target in-system to create the bridge? |
Maeltstome
High Flyers The Kadeshi
627
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Posted - 2015.01.12 11:10:36 -
[45] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Pyrasanth wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:how about making friends with someone and sharing cyno alts? No problem with that but honestly- do you really like 20 cyno jumps & all the hassle behind it? Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you've missed the point. Long distance travel for cap ships was changed precisely so it would become a hassle. Force projection had become a serious problem in EVE, with cap ship hot drops occurring halfway across EVE within a few minutes (or less). Any long distance travel across EVE in a cap ship should be part of a larger effort, which means multiple cyno alts will be available... and even then progression won't be fast. The whole operation will need to be carefully planned, as large fleet operations should be. For solo movement rely primarily on gate jumps and save your cyno hops for when you really need them.
No, the changes where made to limit how quickly capital ships could move. Cyno characters logged off all over eve provided capital ships the ability to traverse the whole universe in minutes.
Making capitals a pain in the ass to move around normally was just a painful side effect. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
840
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Posted - 2015.01.12 18:48:36 -
[46] - Quote
People complained about being able to move across the game to quickly and being able to hot drop anything and everything anywhere. The result is the dev's took a big hammer to the cyno travel system. If you want someone to blame then start with the people that complained about power projection.
-edit
Just said the same thing Maeltstome did. |
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