| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Solairen
Matsuko Holding
10
   |
Posted - 2015.01.12 17:07:30 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
So I'm about to remap for Gunnery and Starship skills. I've maxed most of my fitting, tanking, nag, targeting skills. I'm thinking of adding T3 cruisers to my training, but want to train the Int/Mem subsystems now while I'm still mapped that way.
I have no missile skills, and most of my starship skills are Gallente and Amarr, same with weapon systems; though adding Minmatar wouldn't be too much hassle (Vindi is sexy).
So I see most people seem to use Tengu, and a few Legion. But I rarely if ever see Loki or Proteus. Are they just not that great, or is it more a matter of Tengu is the T3 version of an Ishtar and flavor of the month (year?).
So I'm looking for advice on which T3 subsystems to add, or if it's even worth (without going Tengu).
I spend most of my time doing exploration in HS, with some LS but more WH. The rest of my time is mission running. I'd love to be able to solo some of the WH sites, but I'm not sure if thats just too ambitious.
Thanks for your advice. |
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 19:14:01 -
[2] - Quote
Proteus if you want a straight up facemelting brawler, or if you want the best covert T3.
Tengu for supreme PVE. Also a capable PVP'er from what i've seen but with your lack of Caldari skills, maybe not the best option.
Legion for all-round utility. Okay for PVE. HAM Legion is really good and is also beastly in the neut config but covert Legion sucks.
Not really sure about Loki.
Edit: Contrary to what you've said, I'd say that Proteus is immensely popular but due to mostly being used in WH space that's probably where most of them hang out, therefore you aren't seeing many of them. Everybody and their grandmother uses them for undock games because blasters. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
385
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 19:24:11 -
[3] - Quote
best one for PVE is the tengu, if you dont want to train that best 2nd choice is the proteus, said that T3 are due for a rebalance to happen soon, so things might change. |
Orlacc
710
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 19:34:32 -
[4] - Quote
I have used Loki for exploration with great success. I like projectiles. Less gimped when set up for covert than a Tengu.
As mentioned Proteus is best for brawling PvP. Not flown legion a lot but some major PvPers use the HAM fit.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
|
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 20:19:15 -
[5] - Quote
To mare wrote:best one for PVE is the tengu, if you dont want to train that best 2nd choice is the proteus, said that T3 are due for a rebalance to happen soon, so things might change.
I would say that second best for PVE is laser Legion. I've flown a PVE Proteus and you either have bad dps with rails or bad range with blasters, which means you have to slowboat all over the damn place to get within a few kms of the rats. Personal preference maybe. |
Adam Zalonis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 20:35:11 -
[6] - Quote
Solairen wrote:Hi,
So I'm about to remap for Gunnery and Starship skills. I've maxed most of my fitting, tanking, nag, targeting skills. I'm thinking of adding T3 cruisers to my training, but want to train the Int/Mem subsystems now while I'm still mapped that way.
You do know that subsystems are all only 1x skills, right? They train super fast no matter what mapping or implants you have. I only care about remapping when I have a block of 4x+ skills in my way, personally. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
386
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 22:05:51 -
[7] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:To mare wrote:best one for PVE is the tengu, if you dont want to train that best 2nd choice is the proteus, said that T3 are due for a rebalance to happen soon, so things might change. I would say that second best for PVE is laser Legion. I've flown a PVE Proteus and you either have bad dps with rails or bad range with blasters, which means you have to slowboat all over the damn place to get within a few kms of the rats. Personal preference maybe.
bad dps with rails? maybe you missed the long range medium weapon buff? |
Iyokus Patrouette
No Vacancies
267
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 22:59:47 -
[8] - Quote
Train them all while you're mapped? the subsystem skills aren't long trains anyway.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
|
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 23:21:15 -
[9] - Quote
To mare wrote:Justin Zaine wrote:To mare wrote:best one for PVE is the tengu, if you dont want to train that best 2nd choice is the proteus, said that T3 are due for a rebalance to happen soon, so things might change. I would say that second best for PVE is laser Legion. I've flown a PVE Proteus and you either have bad dps with rails or bad range with blasters, which means you have to slowboat all over the damn place to get within a few kms of the rats. Personal preference maybe. bad dps with rails? maybe you missed the long range medium weapon buff?
No, don't think so. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter
Absolute Zero.
851
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 05:32:06 -
[10] - Quote
Obligatory reminder that T3s are going to be rebalanced at one point, and possibly rather soon(ish). |
Maeltstome
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
629
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 10:13:37 -
[11] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Obligatory reminder that T3s are going to be rebalanced at one point, and possibly rather soon(ish).
Fingers crossed they get absolutely donkey punched. |
atomic killer
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 10:42:59 -
[12] - Quote
Some alliance (down south) use only proteus / legion combo, some alliance use only tengu's. My corp uses legions. So it all depends who you are flying with.
For Pve the best T3 is the one which can choose damage types. |
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
121
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:25:46 -
[13] - Quote
PVE Tengu
PVE - ammo niceties and armour - Legion
PVP Armour:
Prot is armour best by far - cloaky good
Legion good armour
Loki - meh - poor tank
PVP Shield:
Tengu - 100MN or thick tank.
Loki - meh - poor tank
For now - Tengu and Prot best. But as noted, rebalance coming so train them all. |
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
125
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 15:59:02 -
[14] - Quote
For PVP the Loki is an excellent support ship with its long range webs. |
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:06:28 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:rebalance coming so train them all.
Yup, cause training 4 T3's in light of probable impending attack from the nerfbat is a great use of your time... |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
157
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:53:10 -
[16] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:rebalance coming so train them all. Yup, cause training 4 T3's given the impending nerfbat is a great use of your time...
If you believe that there wont be one goto T3 after the rebalance that is still very good.... Just look at the ishtar that things has been rebalanced already and then nerfed once and still FOTM. |
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 00:53:59 -
[17] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:rebalance coming so train them all. Yup, cause training 4 T3's given the impending nerfbat is a great use of your time... If you believe that there wont be one goto T3 after the rebalance that is still very good.... Just look at the ishtar that things has been rebalanced already and then nerfed once and still FOTM.
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I understood it the original intent of T3's was to introduce a ship that was only marginally better than it's racial T2 Cruiser counterparts for a significant increase in cost, much the same way that faction mods work -- Not to create ships that are as strong as what we currently have, with Legions running 400k ehp tanks or Prots getting 1200 dps. If dev responses are any accurate indication, once this T3 rebalance hits we're in for a lot more generalization and utility, and less top-of-it's-class-by-a-long-shot performance in one or two specific areas.
Right now, I'd say the Legion is probably the T3 that best fits the original intent of being a high-utility, jack-of-all-trades ship, despite the fact that it's still capable of beastly tank and top of it's class neuting power. Then again, I have no experience with the Loki. I don't want T3's changed any more than the next T3 loving dude, but all i'm saying is that the way things have been going...well, you better not be getting your hopes up for buffs.
It always annoys me to see that people whine and complain about ship changes. Eve is a game. We don't own it, we just pay the price of a daily coffee to play it. I can't speak for the rest of the community but I sure as hell don't invest enough of my time or money into the game that if something were to drastically change i'd get all bent out of shape over it.
Adapt and overcome, but certainly don't spend 80+ days training 4 T3's when we're on the cusp of a potentially highly controversial T3 rebalance  |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
158
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 15:12:27 -
[18] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:rebalance coming so train them all. Yup, cause training 4 T3's given the impending nerfbat is a great use of your time... If you believe that there wont be one goto T3 after the rebalance that is still very good.... Just look at the ishtar that things has been rebalanced already and then nerfed once and still FOTM. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I understood it the original intent of T3's was to introduce a ship that was only marginally better than it's racial T2 Cruiser counterparts for a significant increase in cost, much the same way that faction mods work -- Not to create ships that are as strong as what we currently have, with Legions running 400k ehp tanks or Prots getting 1200 dps. If dev responses are any accurate indication, once this T3 rebalance hits we're in for a lot more generalization and utility, and less top-of-it's-class-by-a-long-shot performance in one or two specific areas. Right now, I'd say the Legion is probably the T3 that best fits the original intent of being a high-utility, jack-of-all-trades ship, despite the fact that it's still capable of beastly tank and neuting power. Then again, I have no experience with the Loki. I don't want T3's changed any more than the next T3 loving dude, but all i'm saying is that the way things have been going...well, you better not be getting your hopes up for buffs. It always annoys me to see that people whine and complain about ship changes. Eve is a game. We don't own it, we just pay the price of a daily coffee to play it. I can't speak for the rest of the community but I sure as hell don't invest enough of my time or money into the game that if something were to drastically change i'd get all bent out of shape over it. Adapt and overcome, but certainly don't spend 80+ days training 4 T3's when we're on the cusp of a potentially highly controversial T3 rebalance
Its only 108 days (88 with remap and good implants). to fully train all subs to 5. To be able still use the FOTM one after they try to rebalance. Or don't train any of them and see which one is use used all the time after there change sometime in the future(might be 2015 but could be 2016 or further) then train it.
Yes we all know what CCP says will happen when they change T3's. What I'm saying is that look at the ishtar that is a ship that has been changed and is now considered op by many and has even received a nerf afterwards my bet is there will be a T3 that ends up like the ishtar. |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
377
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 15:35:50 -
[19] - Quote
No-one knows when T3's are going to be rebalanced, I don't think it's going to be all that soon actually. What with incoming sov changes, it would logical for CCP to look at caps and supers first.
in my opinion you should definately train to fly a Tengu, just because it's good at everything. Missiles aren't essential as rails are very viable too.
Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
|
Justin Zaine
117
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 17:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quote:Its only 108 days (88 with remap and good implants). to fully train all subs to 5.
Yes, thats a long time, and it's only for the sub skills. Don't forget Cruiser V for each race, which is 20 days with implants if not already trained, and don't forget that OP said he has poor Caldari skills - He'd have to do a lot of shield and missile skills before even thinking about flying that Tengu.
That said, you're probably right about there being a FOTM for certain things, like the Prot is the FOTM for cov ops pvp etc etc...All i'm trying to say is that who knows. T3's could become a shadow of their former selves after this rebalance comes...whenever it comes...and they might be only half as good as they are now, regardless of which ones become the FOTM.
I personally doubt that will happen anyway. I think that they'll each continue to occupy their own racial niche, like they currently do, but won't be as OP at it. So Legion would still be the best neut ship, Prot would be the best drone boat, etc. They just wouldn't be as good at those things as they are now.
And then there's speculation that T3's will adopt the same mechanics that the current T3 dessies have...
I honestly don't know. I just don't think it's wise to do much T3 training for the next while until we can see how things pan out. |
Orlacc
727
|
Posted - 2015.01.14 18:16:26 -
[21] - Quote
Tengu is popular. Britney Spears is popular.
It depends on what you want to use the tool for. WHs.....probably Proteus as you have Gallente already. But Proteus is weaksauce for L4. Tengu is/was best before HML "adjustment." For efficiency a BS is best.
As far as the T3 changes.....way down the road. It would be silly to hesitate training based on speculation. I trained 'em all and am glad I did! But I would train for the one that you currently have the most racial skills already just to learn how to use one.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
|
KnightMaire kings
Brutor Tribe
15
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 06:12:20 -
[22] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Quote:Its only 108 days (88 with remap and good implants). to fully train all subs to 5. Yes, thats a long time, and it's only for the sub skills. Don't forget Cruiser V for each race, which is 20 days with implants if not already trained, and don't forget that OP said he has poor Caldari skills - He'd have to do a lot of shield and missile skills before even thinking about flying that Tengu. That said, you're probably right about there being a FOTM for certain things, like the Prot is the FOTM for cov ops pvp etc etc...All i'm trying to say is that who knows. T3's could become a shadow of their former selves after this rebalance comes...whenever it comes...and they might be only half as good as they are now, regardless of which ones become the FOTM. I personally doubt that will happen anyway. I think that they'll each continue to occupy their own racial niche, like they currently do, but won't be as OP at it. So Legion would still be the best neut ship, Prot would be the best drone boat, etc. They just wouldn't be as good at those things as they are now. And then there's speculation that T3's will adopt the same mechanics that the current T3 dessies have... I honestly don't know. I just don't think it's wise to do much T3 training for the next while until we can see how things pan out.
Ending newt legions will kill wh pvp wich is ware tec 3s are used most often
I think all the rebalance Ned's to do is give the prd a med for a low and a small pg/cpu for the Loki and giv all non cov subs 25drone bay/with
Then make them cost 2x as much and vola good hi end ship
The only major drawback is the crazed notion that the inventory would look so much better if merely rearranged ONE MORE TIME.
|
Valkin Mordirc
583
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 07:25:01 -
[23] - Quote
The Proteus is probably one of the better choice right now for PvP. It's a great brawer, can fit either a massive buffer or a strong active. The cloaky variant is also the best you can get. The Proteus in a Rail config works okay for Ratting and other PVE set ups, though it not the greatest. The drone Proteus is actually fairly decent though not used very much, it can fit a HUGE tank, while maintaining decent DPS. The Explosive resist hole is a slight knock back as it's an obvious choice, so make sure you plug it!
The Tengu is probably the best PVE T3 out there. It's a decent PvP ship. The Blaster Tengu has some merits, but the Rail Tengu is absolutely fantastic it's actually a Standard Fleet Doctrine right now for move Nullbloc's I believe. The 100mn Tengu is also a fairly good choice, but it does come at a very steep price. Then Tengu however doesn't get a great tank, at least for PVP. PVE it's perfectly suited for, however a PVP tank you're usually either getting about 100k buffer, (That's Two LSE II and two Adaptive Invul II And only getting for the most part, A prop mod and a point) Or a Two Large-ASB or if you want to take a even bigger hit to DPS a XL-ASB. The Obvious EM resist hole for your tank also limits you as everybody is going to know what to shoot at you.
The Legion is another good choice. Again depending on what you want to uses it for. I use mine as a HAM/Neut boat, and it works fairly well. The most used version of the Legion I see is the Insta-Locking Gate/Station Camper. It's capable of blasting most smaller things like T1 Indys, Cepters and Frigs, very easily. The Legion gets an okay active tank, but the active tank only works well with a HAM set up. The Buffer tank on the ship however can yield stupid amounts of EHP, Also the Legion has the Resist hole of Therm, which if I'm correct if the least used Damage type in game. Though it always wise the plug it anyways. For the most part unless you're fighting competent people are most likely to explosive type damage at you. (Though my adventures anyways)
The Loki is the only T3 I have yet to fly. But it probably is the Tankiest of all the cloak T3s, and it also makes a very nice Insta-locker. It's main uses though seems to be as a Heavy Tackler. With it's bonus to Web Range. From word of mouth only I've heard The Medium projectiles however might need a buff however so you might want to keep away from those for right now, though it's possible I may be wrong.
My thoughts on them anyways.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Maeltstome
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
633
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 14:19:19 -
[24] - Quote
Lot's of random chatter, but find another ship that can come close to this:
[Tengu, Fleet]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
180k EHP
450 DPS
30-80km Combat range (in optimal)
0 faction mods or expensive fittings
Smaller Sig than a BC, fast enough to Sig Tank.
|
Brylan Grey
Scope Works
Psychotic Tendencies.
66
|
Posted - 2015.01.22 05:47:25 -
[25] - Quote
If you are looking for versatility, any T3 will do you fine.
In wormholes, there are affects you may need to consider. One wormhole hurts shield resists badly for example so a shield T3 might not do well.
A semi bling fit tengu (a faction shield booster that's all in the bling) will roflstomp all L4s despite resistances and damage types etc. But take it into the wrong wormhole, neuting enemies, or low and you'll regret it.
So, all depends on where you are going and what you like to do play style wise.
Your question should be "what sort of overkill is the most overkill for me?". |
Solairen
Matsuko Holding
12
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 19:25:41 -
[26] - Quote
After lots of reading I decide to split the two main forms of advice. I'm going to train both Amarr and Gallente. Mostly because I already have the Cruiser skills for both; this will save me over a month of training by skipping Min and Caldari cruisers, plus the time to train all those missile support and missile skills.
I should be able to fly (not just sit) a Proteus in about 60 days (finish my current map and then remap to pre/will). Once I'm wrapping up my Pre/will then i'll add on the Caldari and Minmatar, and basic missile skills.
I think the Proteus will be a nice fit for my WH excursions. And the Legion, kind of why not since as everyone mention the subsystems are fast training.
Thanks everyone for all the advice =D |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
214
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 20:09:18 -
[27] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:I have used Loki for exploration with great success. I like projectiles. Less gimped when set up for covert than a Tengu.
Confirmed. Covert tengu weapons (in non combat exploration setup) are just decorations, but tengu have huge advantage, fast warping.
"...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..."
The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
|
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
Low-Class
943
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 20:44:16 -
[28] - Quote
what makes a tengu warp faster than any other t3? |
Orlacc
768
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 21:41:22 -
[29] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:what makes a tengu warp faster than any other t3?
Me too! How?
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
214
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 21:43:05 -
[30] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:what makes a tengu warp faster than any other t3?
I was trying to build explo legion (EFT). I can use lows for nanofibers and inertia stabs with tengu. On legion i will have to sacrifice tank. We are talking about less than 1s here but still.
"...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..."
The Good, The Bad and The Bantam
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |