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ListerNH	Posted - 2006.09.20 00:40:00 - [1] Well i will throw this out there and maybe the snowball will gather or roll into someones campfire and melt. 1. How about CCP get rid of gates in 0.0 and reduce then in low sec 2. Introduce a smaller version of the Jump Drive, maybe a delay and distance based on skills no cyn field needed (1 - 2 systems max). Position based on where u are jumping from in nearby system 3. Better System Scanning to allow for detection of inbound jumps, maybe equipment that can allow for detection of inbound jumps b4 they arrive. POS anchorable or such 4. Instas still good for tatical reasons but not for reg travel. Thoughts? Lister
Imechal Ravpeim Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.20 00:48:00 - [2] I kinda like the idea of it. Maybe some new technology was discovered and they could impliment it someday... Eve IS a universe of it's own after all, not everything is gonna be the same as it always was... but at it's current state it would just change too much and make many people mad :[
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.20 00:57:00 - [3] Originally by: ListerNH Thoughts? Lister No. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath For 50, you can have my goat:P- Tirg
Tokka Konnair Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:04:00 - [4] I think Tuxford has it right in this blog. It's not so much that we should change the way we travel ... more the way we conduct combat. If we could somehow decrease the need to gate camp the insta jump would no longer be important. Many solutions have been thrown around ... what we realy need is some lateral thinking.
Sphit Ker	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:09:00 - [5] me likes.. Let me brainstorm a bit. 1. 0.0 Gates should be an anchorable asset. Uber expensive and difficult to install (alignement, sovereinghty, minimal distance to a planet like 10,000km, restricted to the same constellation) and maintain (fuel usage/ISK fee per jumps, can be destroyed) An activation Key? 2. Yes!!! So we have a Capacitor, which fuel all our ship equipement, now we need a hyperdrive which use some other kind of batteries. The player can halt shield and/or capacitor recharging to boost the hyperdrive charging rate. This energy can be dumped into the capacitor much like Cap Booster. I think this hyperdrive should be able to jump anywhere within, at least, the same constellation. Perhaps make use of the "unflatened" map to visualize jump range, much like our weapons optimal range sphere with the "tactical". 3. Yes! As the player 'punch it' for a jump and wait while charging the hyperdrive, something (an object, I think a growing light should do it.) appear in the target system. "Signature Analisis" can be used to extrapolate the destination system from the traces left behind. I would like a passive scanner and an active one. The overview being passive and the Scanner itself being active... so we can get all sneaky.. sheesh! es for a POS piece to detect inbounds. 4. Exactly.
Tokka Konnair Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:14:00 - [6] Still not seeing anything that hasn't been said before. There was a sticky not so long ago saying to keep these threads off General and in the Idea forum ... wonder where that went.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:23:00 - [7] outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Miss Overlord outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee. You fecking kidding right? I hope so cause alliance only jump gates would suck and further skew CCPs alliance ass kissing stance to new levels of ridiculousness. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Karl Shade FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.20 01:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Miss Overlord outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee. You fecking kidding right? I hope so cause alliance only jump gates would suck and further skew CCPs alliance ass kissing stance to new levels of ridiculousness. You really need to lay off the bitter grapes. I¦d argue with you but I cba. You¦re mostly trolling anyways so meh. -
Razin	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:01:00 - [10] Originally by: ListerNH Well i will throw this out there and maybe the snowball will gather or roll into someones campfire and melt. 1. How about CCP get rid of gates in 0.0 and reduce then in low sec ... Thoughts? Lister An idea like that has been presented in these forums before in varying degree of scope and detail. The problem isnÆt with the idea; the problem is with those with an irrational fear of shifting paradigms.

Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Karl Shade Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Miss Overlord outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee. You fecking kidding right? I hope so cause alliance only jump gates would suck and further skew CCPs alliance ass kissing stance to new levels of ridiculousness. You really need to lay off the bitter grapes. I¦d argue with you but I cba. You¦re mostly trolling anyways so meh. Its not bitter grapes at all. I find it disturbing that CCP takes money from the majority of players and use it to add content that is available to a small minority. If you add content then it should be equally spread amongst your subscribers. Apart from that, gates able to jump you multiple systems are going to make the universe even smaller then it already is with instas and jump clones. But mostly its yet another bit of content that is available to a small portion of the playerbase paid for by the entire playerbase. In my part of the world, thats probably called a misappropriation of funds, or more aptly, a rippoff. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Auraurious Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Auraurious on 20/09/2006 02:38:45 Originally by: ListerNH Well i will throw this out there and maybe the snowball will gather or roll into someones campfire and melt. 1. How about CCP get rid of gates in 0.0 and reduce then in low sec 2. Introduce a smaller version of the Jump Drive, maybe a delay and distance based on skills no cyn field needed (1 - 2 systems max). Position based on where u are jumping from in nearby system 3. Better System Scanning to allow for detection of inbound jumps, maybe equipment that can allow for detection of inbound jumps b4 they arrive. POS anchorable or such 4. Instas still good for tatical reasons but not for reg travel. Thoughts? Lister Some obvious problems I see here is that territorial control becomes considerably harder, and it will be much easier to avoid combat. This system would essentially eliminate chokepoints, and make it much harder to catch an inbound fleet (a pos module is a good partial solution, but it seems to me like it would be clunky, and most likely easily counterable). Also, for this to work CCP will need to implement far more places where people interact from. Right now, gates are where an overwhelming percentage of pvp happens, should the be removed I predict that the number of killmails will plummet drasticaly. If this were to be combined with the idea of a previous poster: that combat be somehow coaxed from gates/stations into different areas of engagement (something that eve has very little variety in), this might work. Of course, if CCP do things right, I am hoping that this change won't be needed. _____________________________________________
Khemul Zula Amarr Sharan Order	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:39:00 - [13] Content that only a few can use? You mean like a new BC and BS? Or like the contracts sytem? Or like exploration? Or salvage? Yes CCP is so biased towards alliances. Damn them and their constantly adding new content for POSes and outposts. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/09/2006 02:29:59 Originally by: Karl Shade Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Miss Overlord outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee. You fecking kidding right? I hope so cause alliance only jump gates would suck and further skew CCPs alliance ass kissing stance to new levels of ridiculousness. You really need to lay off the bitter grapes. I¦d argue with you but I cba. You¦re mostly trolling anyways so meh. Edit: Let me put in simple terms: You have 130,000 subscribers. You take their money and add content for 30,000 subscribers. If your one of the 100,000 that gets ripped off and no content, then you wont be happy either. But your not, your 1 of the 30,000. Which just makes you biased. Well the same arguement can be used for you and the rest of the mission runners; the game was intended as a pvp game and the content (you) is hiding away in Empire thumbing your nose at one of the basic principles of the game - risk vs reward. Anyhow, the mission runner changes couldn't come soon enough and we will see how many actually do quit or suck it up and play the game properly. As for the outpost enhancements, it has been a long time coming. In regards to jumping to different systems, i.e. adjacent ones, that would be good too. Hate to bring it back, but maybe jump gates should be revamped ala old highway style.... Actually, looking at what the devs had said previously, they might be going down that path and if so, great can't wait.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:52:00 - [15] Originally by: DropZone 187 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/09/2006 02:29:59 Originally by: Karl Shade Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Miss Overlord outposts are going to be getting jump gates between them (maintence and fuel fee for those alliances and only between outposts owned by the same alliances (tho what about NAP parties is CCP looking at this as well) But basically u could jump between the 2 ISS outposts perhaps ice fuel or a fairly substantial fee. You fecking kidding right? I hope so cause alliance only jump gates would suck and further skew CCPs alliance ass kissing stance to new levels of ridiculousness. You really need to lay off the bitter grapes. I¦d argue with you but I cba. You¦re mostly trolling anyways so meh. Edit: Let me put in simple terms: You have 130,000 subscribers. You take their money and add content for 30,000 subscribers. If your one of the 100,000 that gets ripped off and no content, then you wont be happy either. But your not, your 1 of the 30,000. Which just makes you biased. Well the same arguement can be used for you and the rest of the mission runners; the game was intended as a pvp game and the content (you) is hiding away in Empire thumbing your nose at one of the basic principles of the game - risk vs reward. Anyhow, the mission runner changes couldn't come soon enough and we will see how many actually do quit or suck it up and play the game properly. As for the outpost enhancements, it has been a long time coming. In regards to jumping to different systems, i.e. adjacent ones, that would be good too. Hate to bring it back, but maybe jump gates should be revamped ala old highway style.... Actually, looking at what the devs had said previously, they might be going down that path and if so, great can't wait. You need to train reading comprehension. Then go and read the dev posts regarding EvE. The game was intended as a online space roleplaying game with a large element of PvP. Not as a PvP game only. Regarding the BC, BS, Factional Warefare stuff, thats available to the alliances as well since the alliances get no sec loss pvp and can access empire whenever they like. The issue is that the alliances are consistantly getting uber pwnage content not available to empire while gaining all the benefits of empire as well. And yet are not risking any more then the average veldspar miner. Its as I said, a ripoff of the entire playerbase, for a small fraction of the playerbases benefit. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.20 02:52:00 - [16] Can this plz get moved to the ideas forum? Ship lovers click here
Khemul Zula Amarr Sharan Order	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:13:00 - [17] Quote: You need to train reading comprehension. Then go and read the dev posts regarding EvE. The game was intended as a online space roleplaying game with a large element of PvP. Not as a PvP game only. Regarding the BC, BS, Factional Warefare stuff, thats available to the alliances as well since the alliances get no sec loss pvp and can access empire whenever they like. The issue is that the alliances are consistantly getting uber pwnage content not available to empire while gaining all the benefits of empire as well. And yet are not risking any more then the average veldspar miner. Its as I said, a ripoff of the entire playerbase, for a small fraction of the playerbases benefit. So basically what you are saying is if alliances can use it it doesn't count as content for anyone else? Explain to me how even half the new content in Kali is biased towards alliances. All you seem to be saying is CCP should do nothing for alliances because it isn't fair to everyone else, yet it is okay for them to add empire content because the alliances could give up their space and come to empire to use it. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:21:00 - [18] one side u have dropzone 127 that basically is trolling all mission and PVe content on the other are the carebears who have PVP To be honest i do it all and then some - so id like to see enhancements in a lot of areas if u want ppl to goto 0.0 u need to improve the mission runners access out there (ie more regular jump clones etc) once they are out there D127 u can scan and blow em up - the market will imrpove attracting haulers the whole thing is inderdepandant if u want PVP go play um counter strike eve has a balance and that is why it works Why are u not in empire in jita scanning the mission runners with scan probes dropping in on em while they are jammed with level 4 rats and target the rats and go boost the NPCs so that the mission runner goes pop (ok thats just plain evil but it works)
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Infinity Ziona You need to train reading comprehension. Then go and read the dev posts regarding EvE. The game was intended as a online space roleplaying game with a large element of PvP. Not as a PvP game only. Regarding the BC, BS, Factional Warefare stuff, thats available to the alliances as well since the alliances get no sec loss pvp and can access empire whenever they like. The issue is that the alliances are consistantly getting uber pwnage content not available to empire while gaining all the benefits of empire as well. And yet are not risking any more then the average veldspar miner. Its as I said, a ripoff of the entire playerbase, for a small fraction of the playerbases benefit. Would you please get off your high horse, mission runners are nothing but a blackmark to the game. As stated many times before, this is a PvP style game, one that CCP prides itself with the promotion of an environment where non-consensual PvP is a principle. Mission runners have just found a way around that, and normally CCP would fix such a 'bug' but unfortunately they are busy with other things. As for claiming to be the majority - take a look at alliance populations and factor in the newbie players. Most likely the 'veteran' mission runners factor in maybe a couple thousand at the most. Too bad those couple thousand consume much more system resources than all the other users combined. CCP is taking a reputation hit not just from the lack of PvP but on the performance of the game when you actually try to PvP. Anyhow, quite simple, just move the level 4 agents out to 0.0. In fact, let alliances/corps with outposts bid on them. You could make a great storyline to go along with it: ' <insert level 4 agent name> has become tired of all the high traffic in <insert system name> and has decided to walk the universe.... ' And of course if you don't like it, WoW is the first door on the left. You can go wack worms or gnomes all day long to your heart's content.
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:26:00 - [20] Originally by: DropZone 187 Originally by: Infinity Ziona You need to train reading comprehension. Then go and read the dev posts regarding EvE. The game was intended as a online space roleplaying game with a large element of PvP. Not as a PvP game only. Regarding the BC, BS, Factional Warefare stuff, thats available to the alliances as well since the alliances get no sec loss pvp and can access empire whenever they like. The issue is that the alliances are consistantly getting uber pwnage content not available to empire while gaining all the benefits of empire as well. And yet are not risking any more then the average veldspar miner. Its as I said, a ripoff of the entire playerbase, for a small fraction of the playerbases benefit. Would you please get off your high horse, mission runners are nothing but a blackmark to the game. As stated many times before, this is a PvP style game, one that CCP prides itself with the promotion of an environment where non-consensual PvP is a principle. Mission runners have just found a way around that, and normally CCP would fix such a 'bug' but unfortunately they are busy with other things. As for claiming to be the majority - take a look at alliance populations and factor in the newbie players. Most likely the 'veteran' mission runners factor in maybe a couple thousand at the most. Too bad those couple thousand consume much more system resources than all the other users combined. CCP is taking a reputation hit not just from the lack of PvP but on the performance of the game when you actually try to PvP. Anyhow, quite simple, just move the level 4 agents out to 0.0. In fact, let alliances/corps with outposts bid on them. You could make a great storyline to go along with it: ' <insert level 4 agent name> has become tired of all the high traffic in <insert system name> and has decided to walk the universe.... ' And of course if you don't like it, WoW is the first door on the left. You can go wack worms or gnomes all day long to your heart's content. u fail to see the improtance PVE has on the economy and providing PVP targets - why not play counterstrike dropzone 127 but i guess being a flaming trolling alt youre just hre to stir things up Anyway the game is balanced so its good as is

ListerNH	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:27:00 - [21] Moved to idea forum http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=397892
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Miss Overlord one side u have dropzone 127 that basically is trolling all mission and PVe content on the other are the carebears who have PVP To be honest i do it all and then some - so id like to see enhancements in a lot of areas if u want ppl to goto 0.0 u need to improve the mission runners access out there (ie more regular jump clones etc) once they are out there D127 u can scan and blow em up - the market will imrpove attracting haulers the whole thing is inderdepandant if u want PVP go play um counter strike eve has a balance and that is why it works Why are u not in empire in jita scanning the mission runners with scan probes dropping in on em while they are jammed with level 4 rats and target the rats and go boost the NPCs so that the mission runner goes pop (ok thats just plain evil but it works) Actually I have nothing against PvE if it was used as it was intended. Unfortunately the abuse of it has led to a severe degredation of playability to the rest of the game. The cluster resources used to provide this 'instancing' (and that is all it is) is most likely the prime reason for the massive performace drop over the past several months. You can't even get any decent sized fleet battles anymore as a result. As well, I don't want to see Eve turned into another mmo destroyed by the legions of PvE players. They get away with it with the likes of Blizzard and SoE which ends up turning the game into a boring wack-a-mole contest with nothing to lose. Most players started playing Eve because CCP said they were creating an environment that is hostile by nature and mission runners are adamantly opposed to that ideal. So opposed are they that they claim that it is their 'right' to not participate in non-consensual pvp. CCP needs to right this so that it is only true if they stay docked in station.
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.09.20 03:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Miss Overlord u fail to see the improtance PVE has on the economy and providing PVP targets - why not play counterstrike dropzone 127 but i guess being a flaming trolling alt youre just hre to stir things up Anyway the game is balanced so its good as is Mission running does nothing but negatively impact the economy. It introduces a faucet that has no risk. An ibis in 1.0 mining veld experiences more risk than one running missions....
Miss Overlord Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.09.20 05:49:00 - [24] Originally by: DropZone 187 Originally by: Miss Overlord u fail to see the improtance PVE has on the economy and providing PVP targets - why not play counterstrike dropzone 127 but i guess being a flaming trolling alt youre just hre to stir things up Anyway the game is balanced so its good as is Mission running does nothing but negatively impact the economy. It introduces a faucet that has no risk. An ibis in 1.0 mining veld experiences more risk than one running missions.... PVPers need to get into high sec get the scan probes and interrupt the mission runners (this doesnt really happen why i dont know - well i do it and get lots of kills but i guess others arent that smart)
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.20 05:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Khemul Zula Quote: You need to train reading comprehension. Then go and read the dev posts regarding EvE. The game was intended as a online space roleplaying game with a large element of PvP. Not as a PvP game only. Regarding the BC, BS, Factional Warefare stuff, thats available to the alliances as well since the alliances get no sec loss pvp and can access empire whenever they like. The issue is that the alliances are consistantly getting uber pwnage content not available to empire while gaining all the benefits of empire as well. And yet are not risking any more then the average veldspar miner. Its as I said, a ripoff of the entire playerbase, for a small fraction of the playerbases benefit. So basically what you are saying is if alliances can use it it doesn't count as content for anyone else? Explain to me how even half the new content in Kali is biased towards alliances. All you seem to be saying is CCP should do nothing for alliances because it isn't fair to everyone else, yet it is okay for them to add empire content because the alliances could give up their space and come to empire to use it. Well I looked around and I couldnt find anything about this feature being put into the game. What I am saying is this (jump gates connecting outposts) is probably one of the biggest changes in the history of EvE. You could potentially put a outpost in the furthest reaches of space and one in the closest 0.0 system near empire and you remove the need to any significant travel for your entire alliance. Apart from being completely stupid since EvE travel is already too easy, giving it only to a tiny percentage of the playerbase, who think incorrectly that they are the End Game, looks very much like CCP giving the finger to the rest of us, after ofc, taking our money and giving us a few crappy things that the alliances also get. If this is indeed what is going to happen, I hope that someone whos invested in CCP, see this before it does happen, and takes steps to preserve the EvE that has become so popular, because if this rumour is true, EvE is turning into the same whiner elite, super fast travel, buy your way into the game with RL mony / character sales, same old crap that you can get from any third rate games company. I'll just cross my fingers and hope your full of bull****. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Dannek	Posted - 2006.09.20 05:56:00 - [26] I'm new to the game. I'm in a Corp, but we're pretty new too. I don't want to mine and I'm still trying to figure out how everything works. Why is running missions bad? They're kinda boring, but I don't know what else I can reasonably tackle.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.20 05:59:00 - [27] The solution to instas is to make gates, moons, stations, planets, and asteroid belts, all move 1 grid every downtime. This will simulate orbit, and make instas only good for short-term use. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath For 50, you can have my goat:P- Tirg
Gyn Seng	Posted - 2006.09.20 06:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edit: Let me put in simple terms: You have 130,000 subscribers. You take their money and add content for 30,000 subscribers. If your one of the 100,000 that gets ripped off and no content, then you wont be happy either. But your not, your 1 of the 30,000. Which just makes you biased. Let me put it in even simpler terms: 30-40k mains, 100+ k alts.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.20 06:13:00 - [29] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/09/2006 06:13:57 Originally by: Gyn Seng Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edit: Let me put in simple terms: You have 130,000 subscribers. You take their money and add content for 30,000 subscribers. If your one of the 100,000 that gets ripped off and no content, then you wont be happy either. But your not, your 1 of the 30,000. Which just makes you biased. Let me put it in even simpler terms: 30-40k mains, 100+ k alts. That is quite simple. But lets get back to reality. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.09.20 07:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Dannek I'm new to the game. I'm in a Corp, but we're pretty new too. I don't want to mine and I'm still trying to figure out how everything works. Why is running missions bad? They're kinda boring, but I don't know what else I can reasonably tackle. Some people think it's bad because it's NPC-driven content, and to a larger degree than some other activities it can be played in isolation from interaction with other players. They'd say that player-driven content and player interaction is what makes EVE special, and that mission running is an aberration. They might also say in regard to Empire, that it's an unfairly easy way to make money without the risks of lowsec or the politics and sacrifices of 0.0. There are counter-arguments to most of those things. Regardless of any of that, it's certainly not "bad". Whether it's good or bad for the game is more debatable; as is whether it should be nerfed, tweaked, boosted, or all of the above. Overall, most people seem to accept it as part of EVE. Certainly most of us do it at one time or another, even if it's not our primary focus. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE



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