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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.09.20 06:23:00 -
[1]
Have anyone suggested that what if upcoming Tech2 Battleships could actually be Heavy Command Ships (Like Heavy Assault Ships vs. Assault Ships) ? Skill HCS (Heavy Command Ships) would require Command Ships lvl5 and Tech2 BS's would require BS lvl5. This way those BS's could be "support BS's" what CCP wants and not everyone could use them anyway.
Unnerf Amarr!
"Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
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Shiraz Merlot
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.20 10:12:00 -
[2]
Since a BS with HAC damage boni would be pwnmobile, I never liked the idea of just giving it HAC-like bonuses.
I always imagined that "Tech 2 Battleships" would be called "Flagships", have huge resists and tank, gang bonus mods, covops cloaking, but absolutely lousy DPS. And require racial Battleship 5, plus Recon 5 and Command Ships 5.
Titans are oddly close to that ship description, of course. But I imagined the Flagships would be incredibly expensive in rare minerals whilst being based on the Tier 2 BS hull, not cap ship components.
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Ruze
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.09.20 12:58:00 -
[3]
Give these 'flagships' the ability to create warp tunnels for an entire fleet to pass through. Again, it is the figurehead of the Fleet Command Ship line. However, for a flagship to equip the Jump Drive system, it would have to sacrifice any weapon systems in it's upper slots. It's bonuses would be the command module and logistic bonuses.
And yes, I also believe there needs to be a BS that is the evolution of the Field Command Ship line, with enormous base resists and DPS. Something needs to bring BS's back into the fleet equation.
Oh, and one final thing ... don't allow anything larger than a cruiser to use a cloak. Capital ships and BS's? Un-unh. When you bring a capital ship to the fray, it shouldn't be something that has to hide. And maybe, just maybe, this would help smaller ships have favor in 0.0.
-->Proud Member of The Shadow Ascension<--
Visit the channel 'TSA' to contact a recruiter. |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.09.20 14:03:00 -
[4]
I do like the idea of Flagships as tech 2 battleships (excellent name), and massive gang bonus would then make sense.
Command ships on steroids basically...
I don't like the idea of them opening jump fields for other ships etc though, that's a titan thing :)
Their special bonus could be something to disrupt focus fire - special shielding/armour that actually absorbs energy from incoming attacks and uses it to repair or something...
Zarch AlDain
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Shiraz Merlot
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.20 14:50:00 -
[5]
just fyi I envisaged such ships as having crappy (REALLY crappy) dps, great tank, great gang bonuses, and covops cloak capability, because I imagine them being used by fleet commanders.
The needs of a large-scale FC are unusual. He needs very high survivability; he needs to not attract attention. He's not a damage dealer at the sharp end, but he may well warp in to watch a battle from a great distance. All of this says mega tank (i.e. BS with HAC resists), + covops. Everything else seriously gimped (e.g. give him really bad CPU, and just enough grid to run reppers/boosters, and maybe 2/3 hislots).
Also hence the name "flagships" - in the traditional sense, literally where the admiral flew his flag.
I can also see it being a main tank for high-end plex runners, or the aggro draw for mining crews. Again, a great role niche.
But a straightforward BS with HAC-like tank *and* damage bonuses? Forget it. Too unbalancing imo.
/sm
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Cyberus
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Posted - 2006.09.20 15:10:00 -
[6]
i think its stupid ideas. My opinion. Did you ever seen any flagships what cant figth? To be true usual bs's is are silly ships now since overpowerfull HAC in game. Wtf 2 hac's kill bs easely you call that great balansing??? Ccp did fuc...d up with this t2 ships thats what i think. Realy battleship can realy manage multipele cruisers and dont need speak about frigats because they simple must run if they Bs without own b's support. All this balansing did make simple way big fat frigat from battleship noting more. So please can you for once just shut up about that stupid balansing thing and defenetly one about DPS
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.09.20 15:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Zarch AlDain on 20/09/2006 15:21:57
*Edit as missed out the boost to gang module effectiveness*
He also needs to be able to lock targets and see how and where focus fire is working...so I still say not cloaking, but instead something that makes him hard to take down even with focus fire. It could also have a bonus to max targets.
Let's look at caldari (since that's the race I know best):
Name: Vulture
Hull: Ferox
Role: Fleet Command Ship
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Siege Warfare Links per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
Now lets look at the battleship equivelant:
Name: Artichoke
Hull: Scorpion
Role: Flagship
Flagship Skill Bonus: 2 additional locked targets per level
Flagship Skill Bonus: 20% per level increase in the effectiveness and 10% increase in the range of Misdirection Fields
Flagship Skill Bonus: 1 additional warfare link module can be fitted per level and 5% bonus to warfare link effectiveness.
Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% increase in all shield resistances per level
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 warfare link modules simultaneously.
This would also have a new gang module added 'Misdirection Field' and skill 'Misdirection Field Operation'. The misdirection field would say:
10% chance per level of Misdirection Field Operation that incoming fire is redirected to a randomly selected gang member within 30km.
So this means that with both skills on 4 a Flagship would have 10*4*(1+.2*4) = 40*1.8 = 86.4% chance for each piece of damage coming in that it gets redirected to a random gang member.
By making this a gang support module it limits which ships can fit it (battlecruisers, command ships, flagships, maybe carriers and some other capital ships) and also makes focus fire on those ships much less effective (although your gang is still taking damage).
Zarch AlDain
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2006.09.21 07:42:00 -
[8]
So basicly we agree that upcoming Tech2 BS's should be "Heavy" version of Command Ships aka. Flagships? I love my Absolution with skill lvl5 and 20 days and medium pulse spec lvl5 will bring more mayhem to my carebearing
Unnerf Amarr!
"Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.21 08:05:00 -
[9]
Not that I'd object per se, but note that currently we have 4 ships already with command ship bonuses: BC, CBC, Carrier, Mothership. Maybe 5 if you include titans, but those have never been used yet.
Adding another type command ship might be a bit overkill for 1 role.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.21 09:29:00 -
[10]
There was a long thread about options for T2 BS somewhere on this forum.
Ideas I remember/ave in mind;
-BS with jumpdroves
-uber logistics
-"assault" version (Uberpower).
-Slightly beefed BS (better cap, much more hp but not much better resists or grid - fleet alpha strike tanker ;)) with well available BPOs but great material costs (not overpowered T2 material sink - this one I support)
-platform for temporary anchoring and onlining a single POS module (turret or EW)
-platform for aerial fleet combat effects (fleet shields and focused fire counters are main proposals here, but web, vampire effect/cap recharge bonus, remote tracking enchancing, slow armor rep or slow damage effect, for everyone in range of 60km wuld be cool too).
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Vaslav Tchitcherine
Swag Co.
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:10:00 -
[11]
I always thought of capital ships as filling the T2 niche for battleships, but I know that's not technically correct. (Comparatively insane skill requirements, 10-20x the cost, not as uber as you'd think, etc.)
But if we get a gang-module-bonus BS, can we pelase also have a gang-module-bonus frig? Wolfpacks should be able to have a wingleader with skirmish mods, and you can't drag around a BC all the time.
A bit off-topic, sorry. 
v.
swag
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:22:00 -
[12]
Capitals are totally diffrent to T2 BS, in production, in usage, in logistics. in weapon sizes and so on.
T2 ships are same sized, same model, diffrent texture and are made of T2 components + T1 ship. Lets keep it, its ok :) (with exception of BPO issues)
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Vaslav Tchitcherine
Swag Co.
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:29:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaslav Tchitcherine on 21/09/2006 10:29:17
 Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
Capitals are totally diffrent to T2 BS, in production, in usage, in logistics. in weapon sizes and so on.
Production has some similarities, in that the ships are made using player-created secondary-industry components, rather than raw minerals. Yeah, I know, it's just in my head. 
I was more rambling than being serious.
I was being serious about wanting a T2 gang-module-bonus 'wingleader' frig though. Yum.
v.
swag
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:30:00 -
[14]
A "command" AF wuld be bad :)
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Vaslav Tchitcherine
Swag Co.
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:32:00 -
[15]
Why?
v.
swag
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:34:00 -
[16]
Gee, I forgot "'nt". ;)
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Vaslav Tchitcherine
Swag Co.
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Posted - 2006.09.21 10:36:00 -
[17]
Woot!
And to Kuolematon: Sorry for stealing your thread, man. 
v.
swag
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Matrim Acoma
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Posted - 2006.10.06 03:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Have anyone suggested that what if upcoming Tech2 Battleships could actually be Heavy Command Ships (Like Heavy Assault Ships vs. Assault Ships) ? Skill HCS (Heavy Command Ships) would require Command Ships lvl5 and Tech2 BS's would require BS lvl5. This way those BS's could be "support BS's" what CCP wants and not everyone could use them anyway.
Or just take the current BS's, add an additional slot like the faction BS's, increase agility and speed to be on par w/ a BC. Would be around a base increase in speed of about 25m/s or so.
- Mat
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.06 04:22:00 -
[19]
Requiring Command Ships V would be a big break from the norm. All other higher-tier ship command skills require only level 4 in the lower level. Interdictors requires Interceptors 4, HAC requires AF 4, etc.
A battleship with T2 resists, lame DPS, a blanket gang bonus and the abilitiy to open jump gates for gang mates is exactly the same role as a Titan, with reduced skill and construction requirements, no hangar array/clone vat, and the ability to use stargates. No way.
Making it a command ship with HAC resists but no hardpoints, so it can only use gang and support modules (maybe nos, too) would be pretty good. Almost invincible, but totally unable to kick butts. Lame little drone bay, too, like 25 cubic meters, to keep it from being the Dominix of Horror.
No matter what, if you make a battleship-sized ship that tanks harder than a current battleship does, it'll be the PvE superstar, managing all the aggro in all the 10/10 complexes.
Civis Ascendant Sum |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.10.06 06:26:00 -
[20]
I would like to see tech 2 battleships as some type of prime defensive ship, with massive resists itself, and the ability to soak up damage from its gangmembers or something like that...
Like an "Escort" - it has the ability to link itself with other ships to shield them from damage untill it is destroyed itself, since in Eve defensive strategies simply don't work because there is no way to intercept warping people before they are in range of their primary target regardless of how many people try to protect it.
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.06 07:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 06/10/2006 07:40:21
I would like to see NO T2 BS's.
If they do HAC damage they are overpowered, if the get Command ship tanks they are even more overpowered.
Face it, the pve content in Eve would never be able to deal with even stronger BS's out there. Insofar as it isn't already, pve-ing solo would become a snoozefest.
Old blog |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.10.06 10:20:00 -
[22]
PVE-ing is a snoozefest...
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Otellus
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Posted - 2006.10.06 11:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 06/10/2006 07:40:21
I would like to see NO T2 BS's.
If they do HAC damage they are overpowered, if the get Command ship tanks they are even more overpowered.
Face it, the pve content in Eve would never be able to deal with even stronger BS's out there. Insofar as it isn't already, pve-ing solo would become a snoozefest.
PvE is hardly a reason not to introduce T2 BS. Pve-ing is about as dangerous as mining. In fact ratting is little more than mining a different kind of asteroids for resources.
Not that I'd demand T2 BS, but I don't see much of a problem with them, as long as they are slow and cumbersome.
At a baseprice of what? 200m-300m, with limited supply you're talking about a billion isk+ per ship probably once profits are taken into account. Seems reasonable enough for me.
Slow, cumbersome monsters, sortof mini dreads. Why not?
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.06 12:27:00 -
[24]
Pve may be a secondary concern when it comes to making balancing decisions, but it's a concern nonetheless.
If you ignore it you get fun stuff like the exodus screwup with lvl 4's.
Old blog |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.10.06 19:13:00 -
[25]
While I generally agree with that, I don't believe PvE can be more broken. A single person with 3 accounts can run a 10/10 complex successfully in Eves present state of PvE, tech 2 battleships wouldn't really make it any worse.
I think at least one Tech 2 Battleship should be an escort that has very few weapons and instead gets some kind of damage transfer mod that allows it to absorb the damage another ship recieves into its massive tank.
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Ruze
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Posted - 2006.10.06 20:53:00 -
[26]
I've had the idea of a jump-portal making ship in my head well before Eve, and it seems perfect in this current setting.
Problem is, it's one of the major reserves of the Titan, a ship that I personally feel has lost all of it's practicality. No, I don't think Titan's will ever number more than a dozen, and will NEVER be a common sight in Eve. Plain and simple, they are (as someone else put it) 'e-peen displayes.'
So yes, I believe a flagship with heavy resists and no weapon slots would be a great tool to fill this 'Flagship' line. A ship which can help a fleet move between systems, by creating a one-way jump portal that is open for a defined length of time.
That being said, I'm also a supporter of removing jump gates from 0.0 (it ain't fricking Empire, so who the heck keeps them running), and providing players with a way to move between systems, in the shape of a jump module. Range would be extremely limited, but players would also be left responsible for creating their own paths and roadways.
Oh, then there's the idea of giving players the ability to create AND use deadspace complexes, or setup jump gates between POS's. Or allowing capital ships to jump between systems on their own, and only needing the CYNO field for extended, long range jumps.
Bleh, it'll never happen. But it's a style of gameplay I wish for.
-->Proud Member of The Shadow Ascension<--
Visit the channel 'TSA' to contact a recruiter. |
Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.10.07 11:57:00 -
[27]
My ideas:
1. Low damage output, but extreme high range (-50% rof always, but +15% optimal per level - also for NOS and tractor beams), 5 highslots, 2 turrets / launchers, the rest for nos / cloaking / tractor beams
2. Remote repper / shield booster / gang assist bonuses at a very high level
3. Able to fit covert ops cloak
4. Extreme tanking capability, immune to all forms of electronic warfare
5. Skill requirements: flagship skill, level 5 bs, recon ships, covert ops)
6. Should be able to create cynosural fields
Hm, I guess THAT would be far too uber, forget it. 
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