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Isodoros Immobiliares	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:30:00 - [31] Originally by: xenorx Well that pretty much sums it up nicely. No it doesn't. Thats bul***t normal JF propaganda hidden whit a twist. There is a reason why ppl have NBSI rules. It's not a freak of nature. The need for people to protect themself from foreign elements is paramount in 0.0. Same goes for this forum. You can't expect an alliance who have it's own protection at heart to not instruct it's members to disregard posting on this section. Thats why you see so few people posting here. And it doesn't help restricting alts either. You whould think by jasmine's statement that there ain't any deversity in eve when it comes to ideaology. Nothing is futher from the truth. JF's one example of that, goon another. Fact is. These ideologies fall on their own fundamental problems and they can't compete whit the NBSI policy. So that can't be the problem. Beside. We get tired of JF's bitcing about the same ideology over and over. Thats why it's not making such a fuss that it used to. What can you then do about this section to make it more intresting? Allow alts for one. But more than that is hard to say something solid. Maybe NBSI is to deep rooted in the gamemachanics? Maybe change in the client is needed? Maybe less moderation? Hard to say really. Maybe alliance leaders need to lose the strangle on members more. Who knows.
Manfred Sideous Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:31:00 - [32] Good post Nez! Some people wake up and look at the stock market some wake up and look at the comics. Im tend to choose the latter. The forums were entertaining bottom line. Now they arent if Kali is gonna breathe life back into them then I say Hooray. Nothing like watching Asshat X post and then read the replies of people pummeling his/her slanted/incorrect/flamebatish statement. It makes for a good laugh. Isnt that why we all play Eve ? Entertainment ah yes thats the word of the day childrens hehe. Unless someone is degrading another person IRL I dont see the harm. I often delve deep into charecter and find myself hating those AAA guys. But hey its entertainment.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Nez Perces Jasmine is a very eleoquent and intelligent poster, however, she has an agenda and no matter what she posts the agenda is always in there somewhere. If NBSI for territorial alliances is such a boring concept and such a game killer, how come it has been adopted by pretty much any entity that wishes to be successful? Because sometimes the illusion success can be a one-way street that drives people down an evolutionary dead-end. What is success in Eve? ISK, ships, territory, stations? Well partially. But fame, noteriety also. And beyond that, keeping your players interested and your veterans motivated. If vets in Eve are jaded and bored that does rather suggest that something is going wrong. Whats that something? Is it for CCP to impose and provide? Or is it a case that the leaders organisations have gotten into a rut of samey lookalike politics with no differentiation. I think the latter, hence this post. Quote: No matter how boring you think NBSI is due to some ideological crusade against territorial claiming entities, it pales into comparison with the boredom accompanying the effective policing of non-NBSI territorial claims. For the entity claiming territory, neutrals become a massive headache and security concern.. the natural consequence is to make things simpler via NBSI. Simpler = dumbing down. Erosion of diversity = boring politics. The easy road is not the most entertaining road. Quote: There is no ideology behind NBSI, its simply a matter of expediency and practicality. Thats the problem. Lack of ideology = lack of ideas, lack of passion, lack of conviction. Lack of entertainment value. If everyone is the same where is the point of conflict. Or rather, why should anyone outside of the immediate conflict care about it? Quote: In a game where time is limited i.e a lot of people have a RL to tend to also, trying to play Concord in 0.0 gets old pretty fast; massive standings lists, neutrals whining about getting shot by mistake, a magnet for pirates looking to get easy kills. Yet these are the things that make politics in Eve interesting. Diplomatic incidents, differentiation in political systems and organisational ideology - variety is the spice of life - remove variety and you have boredom. Quote: show me an alliance in 0.0 and I'll show you an entity that is striving to become more efficient (if it isn't its days are numbered). Access for neutrals flies in the face of making the territorial alliance's life simpler and more streamline. You are making my argument for me really Nez. Simpler and more streamlined politics is the problem not the solution. The simpler things are the less reason to talk about them. The less point to this forum. _________________
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Isodoros You whould think by jasmine's statement that there ain't any deversity in eve when it comes to ideaology. Nothing is futher from the truth. JF's one example of that, goon another. Fact is. These ideologies fall on their own fundamental problems and they can't compete whit the NBSI policy. So that can't be the problem. The NBSI route is the easy way Isodoros, you are correct, its definately the case that alternatives are more challenging and much more difficult to establish absolutely. But thats the point. Because more or less everyone has chosen the easy road its left no politics or ideological discussion for this forum. Goons were just another NBSI lookalike. JF is a tiny voice in the wilderness. 99% of 0.0 is uniform. Quote: What can you then do about this section to make it more intresting? Allow alts for one. But more than that is hard to say something solid. Maybe NBSI is to deep rooted in the gamemachanics? Maybe change in the client is needed? Maybe less moderation? Hard to say really. Maybe alliance leaders need to lose the strangle on members more. Who knows. Its ironic that you disagree with me in the opening sentence yet end up posting this Isodoros. You want ALT posting allowed because of the iron grip of alliance leaders? You want changes in the game mechanics to loosen the grip of NBSI? Maybe so. But it does rather speak of precisely what I wrote - the current situation is an all NBSI wilderness of political uniformity. There is no diversity hence no useful discussion on this forum. _________________
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The less point to this forum. I'll just answer to this piece here... The only real point to this section of the forums is its use in psychological warfare... i.e kicking your enemy in the face when he is down. e.g You announce your war here... you tell the community how you are kicking the other guy in the nuts.. you tell the community that your enemy is dead or your enemy says you are dead etc... E-congratulations all-round... next target and so on.. Ofc as EVE is such a multi-dimensional game, even the industrial kind of pvp can be celebrated, i.e putting up outposts etc.. etc... This is the e-peenforum, everybody's e-peen is pretty flacid these days, hence its a bit dull..lets hope Kali will inject EVE with some much needed Viagra.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.22 14:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Nez Perces The only real point to this section of the forums is its use in psychological warfare... i.e kicking your enemy in the face when he is down. You announce your war here... you tell the community how you are kicking the other guy in the nuts.. you tell the community that your enemy is dead or your enemy says you are dead etc... E-congratulations all-round... next target and so on.. Ofc as EVE is such a multi-dimensional game, even the industrial kind of pvp can be celebrated, i.e putting up outposts etc.. etc... This is the e-peenforum, everybody's e-peen is pretty flacid these days, hence its a bit dull..lets hope Kali will inject EVE with some much needed Viagra. Well thats the way its become. It didn't used to be that way. And psychological warfare is not just about glorying about putting the boot in. Once upon a time it used to be about trying to change people's minds, trying to appeal to the imagination, trying to sell differing philosophies and ideological approaches to the game. It was about the clash of ideas not just killboard ratios. Back then the forum meant something and propaganda ment something. At the moment its all a numbing grind of background noise. Nobody cares. One NBSI outfit smashes another NBSI outfit and nothing changes, its just infighting amongst tribal warlords with no differentiation in politics, no character, no personality and nothing at stake for the wider community. That is the critical point. I'd say people's e-peen's are "flacid" because there is no way for them to influence other people beyond their feuding with identikit foes. Nobody expects anything other than endless NBSI gangsterism from the frontier thus nobody cares about the rationale and reasons given by the NBSI warlords for fighting. Everyone has enough money, nothing is changed by fighting - nobody has an intellectual stake in the conflicts being fought. Eventually the awareness of tedium and pointlessness will get to anyone. If you don't have ideas and vision then you have nothing but dust. _________________
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:04:00 - [37] A nice 3rd party forum might be good. Extreme Censorship is almost as bad as alts.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:27:00 - [38] I'd love it! The problem is getting a set of forums that everyone will know about and use. On the other hand, I like how you have to think hard about what you say here so as to insult people to the max without getting banned. Its more difficult to flame people, but ultimately more rewarding! Hook me up with a link if anyone makes such forums.
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Nez Perces No matter how boring you think NBSI is due to some ideological crusade against territorial claiming entities, it pales into comparison with the boredom accompanying the effective policing of non-NBSI territorial claims. Policing non-NBSI territorial claims is a lot more fun, IMO. Quote: Non-NBSI territory = pirate haven. Which means more targets on your doorstep instead of having to go 20 jumps for them. Targets ready to fight instead of NPCers who are easy ganks. All good stuff if you actualy like to PvP. Honestly I can't imagine how it can be fun to be in deep 0.0 and not see enemies for weeks because the borders are so secure. The main barrier to someting other than NSBI being practical is the limited number of standing slots, and the way standings need to be set towards individual corps for docking righs.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:44:00 - [40] Edited by: Nez Perces on 22/09/2006 15:45:54 Originally by: Shin Ra On the other hand, I like how you have to think hard about what you say here so as to insult people to the max without getting banned. Its more difficult to flame people, but ultimately more rewarding! Exactly.. you can insult people pretty good on these forums, you just have to be subtle... Originally by: Clavius XIV Policing non-NBSI territorial claims is a lot more fun, IMO. Fun is a such subjective word... not knowing wether a neutral is hostile or not is not my idea of fun. Interminable standings list is not my idea of fun. Territorial policing for the benefit of neutrals is not my idea of fun. Originally by: Clavius XIV Honestly I can't imagine how it can be fun to be in deep 0.0 and not see enemies for weeks because the borders are so secure. The main barrier to someting other than NSBI being practical is the limited number of standing slots, and the way standings need to be set towards individual corps for docking righs. If your borders become so secure that you are bored, it means your alliance has come of age... and its probably time to start attacking other alliances to get your pvp. It is the way of EVE. The way standings work in EVE is the only reasoning required behind NBSI, its not going to change anytime soon. For an alliance that has conquerable stations, not having NBSI, is effectively tying one hand behind your back with your ideology, an ideology that breaks down completely when your back is against the wall and you have something to lose.
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.22 15:51:00 - [41] IOI: -1 Earned In Blood, the rightful owners of all 0.0 space declare all sovreignty claims of the various alliances null and void, and is hereby opening up all space to all pilots. All alliances are required to take down all structures, get into their combat craft, form small fleets and engage in oldschool warfare. Failure to comply will result in a mildly worded EVEmail. That is all. +IOI?
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Nez Perces If your borders become so secure that you are bored, it means your alliance has come of age... and its probably time to start attacking other alliances to get your pvp. It is the way of EVE. And then those that most enjoy PvP for its own sake get tired of blob and pos wars and leave the alliance to form/join corps such as 0utbreak. This too seems to be the way of EVE. Quote: For an alliance that has conquerable stations, not having NBSI, is effectively tying one hand behind your back with your ideology, an ideology that breaks down completely when your back is against the wall and you have something to lose. Fair enough, especially if you are playing to "win" at all costs. As a roleplayer I have some experience with playing with a hand tied behind my back, and really while it can limit your capabilities, it is a lot of fun
Robet Katrix Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:34:00 - [43] there is definetly a lot that does not get said on these forums. escpecially with the advent of no-alt posting its suprising what you DONT hear about now. as to NBSI... people do what they have to do.
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:43:00 - [44] Alright, I've got a plan. I'll set up another forum with in-game authentication et al, and on occasion we can have Abdalion be a guest moderator just for s&%ts and giggles. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Alright, I've got a plan. I'll set up another forum with in-game authentication et al, and on occasion we can have Abdalion be a guest moderator just for s&%ts and giggles. Sounds good, wouldn't be the same without Abdalion.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:57:00 - [46] Edited by: Nez Perces on 22/09/2006 17:02:13 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Simpler = dumbing down. Erosion of diversity = boring politics. The easy road is not the most entertaining road. ... I have some spare time so I can continue this very interesting discussion I assure you there is nothing easy about holding 0.0 space. Infact going into 0.0 and testing your entity's framework against the harshness and lawlessness of 0.0 conquerable space is just about the most interesting thing one can do in EVE. Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Thats the problem. Lack of ideology = lack of ideas, lack of passion, lack of conviction. Whilst NBSI is propelled by practicality and the need to keep things simple, this does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that the entities enforcing it do not have ideologies. Every entity in EVE is different. BoB is not identical to LV or ASCN or D2, infact no alliance in EVE is a replica of another... it is a fallacy to say so. NBSI is simply the default setting for any competent alliance in conquerable space. Its common sense nothing more nothing less. Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Yet these are the things that make politics in Eve interesting. Diplomatic incidents, differentiation in political systems and organisational ideology - variety is the spice of life - remove variety and you have boredom. Your definition of interesting is subjective, much like the CVA poster's definition of fun. I find alliances fighting eachtother to bitter death interesting, irrespective of ideologies. I find nothing more interesting than to watch alliances tear the living hearts out of another, and the consequent pain felt when all efforts and work are spent on the battlefield. Originally by: Jasmine Constantine You are making my argument for me really Nez. Simpler and more streamlined politics is the problem not the solution. The simpler things are the less reason to talk about them. The less point to this forum. This forum is not an end in itself, this forum is the EVE's version of the Times or some other world affairs newspaper. Its a place for alliances and corporations to wave their e-peens around (making for fun reading). When Sir Molle makes a post for BoB everybody knows its gonna be a good read... why? Its simple.. Sir Molle gets BoB's massive throbbing e-peen out in full view and then thrusts it in our collective faces. We can't help but pay attention... If the forums are boring then it just means that most alliances are taking care of internal business, i.e bulking up for Kali. Wether Kali is a success or not is very much down to CCP and very little do with this forum or any ideological revolution. [edit: Typos]
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.09.22 16:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Alright, I've got a plan. I'll set up another forum with in-game authentication et al, and on occasion we can have Abdalion be a guest moderator just for s&%ts and giggles. As long as one can post from out of game after being authenticated in-game. For those of us that get pwnd by the firewalls at work. +IOI?
Isodoros Immobiliares	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:03:00 - [48] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine .. Look. JF is a force and have been a force for a long time. You've worked the shadows since day one. The reason why nobody uses an open space policy is becus it simply doesn't cut it in the long term conflicts of 0.0 The ideaology is there. There is deversity. It's just that it can't cut it in the day to day buisness of 0.0, simple. Face the fact. NBSI is the stance ppl take to insure their own security. You can't expect a place that trives on conflict to turn carebear and goddy two shoes becus it's a good idealogie. It doesn't work like that. Face up to it allready. You can talk all you want about ideaology on this forum. But ones you step into the void of eve it doesn't carry jack sh*t if you can't carry it out. Hench it's useless. Yes I do think ppl whould be more lose if commanders didn't restrict them. Yes it whould be messy. But it whould be a hell of a blast I think. But it's currently seen as not professional to post here and to some extent I fully support that. Unfortunatly it's going to restrict the ammount of information, tactics, ideaology, bragging, flaming, flavor, etc etc etc. Becus ones you look past the "common" NBSI stance. The diffrent ideaology of the each factions are quite broad. Most often command ideaology is a binder between the corps who is actually in the faction and people tend to find eachoter. But I don't expect the commanders to do that. I don't expect them to just give it up in a day. Motivation for doing that is change the machanics so it's easier to do so. How that can be achived I got no clue about. The action you often take to fix one problem have a prefound impact on another totally unexpected issue. So I don't think we'll see that. Also. There are several points in this tread that mods could have locked it if they have followed the current standard they have adopted lately. They haven't, result as far as I can see, it's a more openminded discussion and not so much focus on what not to say. I think this tread alone showes that it can be constructive if you let it run it's course. If you just limit the moderation to extreme profanity.
Torshin Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:13:00 - [49] I think you forum *****s over estimate your impact on EVE itself. While I will admit having a solid diplomat posting victories and making strong agruements about their alliance will help the way the rest of the EVE universe veiws them I don't see how it can effect your allaince's moral. TBH most eve players don't post on these forums. I enjoy the fact that I don't have to bother with thousands of alts posting in every thread. If you think you have a story and don't want to reveal yourself take your alt and join an actual corp then post with that char. If you think its stupid that the mods are locking "5 WORST CORPS" thread because they might turn into flame fests you don't deserve to be posting here in the first place. Those threads can turn into nothing else besides flamefests. See you at KRIN.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:40:00 - [50] Edited by: Plutoinum on 22/09/2006 17:44:42 Originally by: Clavius XIV Honestly I can't imagine how it can be fun to be in deep 0.0 and not see enemies for weeks because the borders are so secure. The south-east is at war for a long time now. I think a clear friend/hostile rating makes things easier. Less people, you have to care about, less spies. My alliance also prefers to sell mining and hunting passes and give access to stations for money instead of giving it for free. I also prefer an empty system, if I need to make money with ratting. Some other guy in system usually cuts my income down to 10mil/isk per hour, and I don't like that, because I have to rat a lot longer then (I don't enjoy ratting much.) So in the current situation, were there are only two objectives, warfare and making money for warfare, I don't see how a neutrals would make our 0.0 life better. ( Besides that there a psycological reasons: People form gangs to kill stuff. If they can't catch some hostiles, a neutral is still better than nothing . Most 0.0 alliances aren't RP alliances. They play a strategy game or/and a tactical combat game I think and some players just want to kill stuff. )
Torshin Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:48:00 - [51] While it is true that almost all of 0.0 is NBSI some alliances do try to work without it it just becomes to difficult. For example Ratel had a open space policy around their outpost. Then Roadkill betrayed them and now we have SmashKill V Ratel and friends seige going on for i think 6 weeks now. See you at KRIN.
Sable Schroedinger Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.22 19:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Torshin While it is true that almost all of 0.0 is NBSI some alliances do try to work without it it just becomes to difficult. For example Ratel had a open space policy around their outpost. Then Roadkill betrayed them and now we have SmashKill V Ratel and friends seige going on for i think 6 weeks now. to be fair, chances are it would have happened anyway, NBSI or not. There may have just been more sucking up before the betrayal first (become allies then betray). Reading this thread only convinces me more that Jas is right. Justifying NBSI by saying its simpler and more secure than its alternatives confirms the very point that it is less interesting. It, as with many things, is interesting in the short term, but lacks the legs for the long term. Gimping yourself in the short term makes things harder, but it also engages interest for the long haul. e-peens. For e-peens to remain interesting, you need to have one people are interested in. To engage the viewer in who is getting kicked by whom, the viewer must care about those who are involved in some way. Therefore you need to impact on their lives on some level. A right royal kick in the nuts for some unfortunated group may be fun for a while, but as with anything repeats of the same old same old will eventually become boring. If you want the wider world to care about who pwns who, you need to stand out more. And the clammer of killboard stats isn't cutting it anymore, so you need to find something new. p.s. remember when calling for less moderation, CCP is liable for anything posted here... -------------------------------------------- Nothing is as cruel as the righteousness of innocents
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.09.22 20:53:00 - [53] Originally by: Nebba Kenezzer Alright, I've got a plan. I'll set up another forum with in-game authentication et al, and on occasion we can have Abdalion be a guest moderator just for s&%ts and giggles. Drop me link when you open such one, then invite Abdalion, and we could all lock every topic he starts, with a nice, jumpy locker! Revenge, is 4tw! ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.22 20:59:00 - [54] Edited by: Murukan on 22/09/2006 20:59:32 The main thing that annoys me is anytime you question the motive of an ISD decision you get your ** deleted and a warning. In rust we trust!!!**
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.22 22:50:00 - [55] Jade, the more I read your posts, the more I begin to realize that all your opinions simplify down to "blame imperialism!". Its not always so obvious, but each post is basically you tailoring that line of argument to whatever the current discussion seems to be. Maybe I'm reading between the lines way too much. But I have every reason to to consider it propaganda.. My personal theory is that you're too engrossed with the character to see it from unbiased OOC perspectives, because you've roleplayed this angle for so long that you've managed to convince yourself. I can see some logic in what you claim, but you've totally missed the fact that [insert free space theory] has been tried and has been found lacking. The spectacular fall of CFS put me off alliances for a good two years, and they were doing exactly that. You yourself haven't managed to succeed with this free space hoohah in any large capacity. If idealism is what JF has, and the imperials don't, why do they continue to capture the attention and loyalty of thousands? Where is the revolution? In its most basic form, EVE is a giant rat race for money, power, fear, respect, whatever.. (you can find it on the box somewhere). The installment of EVE-wide NBSI policies comes from a realization that riding the high horse makes you look more like a contriving jackass than anything else. People can only continue lying through their teeth for so long before they say "ah screw it, you're in my way, please die". The alliances which don't operate under NBSI only do it because they are following the path of least resistance to obtaining riches, and trying to avoid making as many enemies as possible. As stupid as it sounds, it ends up working on a grand scale. Every doe-eyed newbie who grows up to be a power wielding megalomaniac remembers such alliances as ASCN and ISS with affection for not making his newbie days as miserable and repays it by focusing on the ones that did even if its entirely unintentional. Self serving greed can easily be mistaken for idealism. The real problem is not imperialism, its the demand for it. The biggest alliances are a couple thousand players, mostly alts, inactives and grunts. Which leaves a few dozen people in each calling the shots on dozens of regions around EVE. Meanwhile theres ten times as many pilots sitting in Empire grinding for the almighty ISK at a slower pace. They do it because imperialism has such a ludicrously high entry cost. You could spend months mounting a campaign to steal the bistot of Branch with huge resources at your disposal, or you could simply apply to join an established alliance and be done with it. And there are enough resources in a single high end 0.0 region to satisfy thousands, so theres no real reason to stop them. So people turtle, and stockpile, and turtle, and stockpile. All the while hoping Kali will bring some kind of end to this cold war in space (an entirely ironic proposition as space is always cold). And even if it doesn't, only a matter of time before someone says "the hell with it" and fields the biggest nutc racker they can find. The ensing drama would cover this board in minutes, in ways that no amount of bickering over ideology can ever begin to. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.22 23:16:00 - [56] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 22/09/2006 22:56:50 Jade, the more I read your posts, the more I begin to realize that all your opinions simplify down to "blame imperialism!". Its not always so obvious, but each post is basically you tailoring that line of argument to whatever the current discussion seems to be. Maybe I'm reading between the lines way too much. But I have every reason to to consider it propaganda.. My personal theory is that you're too engrossed with the character to see it from unbiased OOC perspectives, because you've roleplayed this angle for so long that you've managed to convince yourself. I can see some logic in what you claim, but you've totally missed the fact that [insert free space theory] has been tried and has been found lacking. The spectacular fall of CFS put me off alliances for a good two years, and they were doing exactly that. You yourself haven't managed to succeed with this free space hoohah in any large capacity. If idealism is what JF has, and the imperials don't, why do they continue to capture the attention and loyalty of thousands? Where is the revolution? In its most basic form, EVE is a giant rat race for money, power, fear, respect, whatever.. (you can find it on the box somewhere). The installment of EVE-wide NBSI policies comes from a realization that riding the high horse makes you look more like a contriving jackass than anything else. People can only continue lying through their teeth for so long before they say "ah screw it, you're in my way, please die". The alliances which don't operate under NBSI only do it because they are following the path of least resistance to obtaining riches, and trying to avoid making as many enemies as possible. As stupid as it sounds, it ends up working on a grand scale. Every doe-eyed newbie who grows up to be a power wielding megalomaniac remembers such alliances as ASCN and ISS with affection for not making his newbie days as miserable and repays it by focusing on the ones that did even if its entirely unintentional. Self serving greed can easily be mistaken for idealism. The real problem is not imperialism, its the demand for it. The biggest alliances are a couple thousand players, mostly alts, inactives and grunts. Which leaves a few dozen people in each calling the shots on dozens of regions around EVE. Meanwhile theres ten times as many pilots sitting in Empire grinding for the almighty ISK at a slower pace. They do it because imperialism has such a ludicrously high entry cost. You could spend months mounting a campaign to steal the bistot of Branch with huge resources at your disposal, or you could simply apply to join an established alliance and be done with it. And there are enough resources in a single high end 0.0 region to satisfy thousands, so theres no real reason to stop them. So people turtle, and stockpile, and turtle, and stockpile. All the while hoping Kali will bring some kind of end to this cold war in space (an entirely ironic proposition as space is always cold). And even if it doesn't, only a matter of time before someone says "the hell with it" and fields the biggest nutc racker they can find. The ensuing drama would cover this board in minutes as it has with every major BoB operation this year, in ways that no amount of bickering over ideology can ever begin to. I dunno about you Jade, I see no point in a space game without the conquest of said space. We'd essentially be fighting a war of words backed by random spasms of ingame violence. And I'm pretty sure that CCP doesn't want to hand their game over to the same five people That seems complicated for a Friday night. Where's the nearest pub. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.22 23:31:00 - [57] You'll have to forgive me for whoring at this time, I am down with the flu. Still debating whether I've made it worse.. :< Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.22 23:47:00 - [58] I hope you feel better Digital; I highly recommend washing your hands more regularly with anti-bacterial soap and also using Airborne. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2006.09.23 00:16:00 - [59] Originally by: Luthien Firefoot Also there are young people who probably shouldn't be exposed to some of the filth that would ensue. If you're on the Internet playing a game, trust me, you've seen and read a lot worse than anyone could dish out here.
Wierd Beard Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.23 06:58:00 - [60] Heh. No kidding. Spend 10 minutes on any first person shooter server and listen to what the teens (supposedly those who should be saved from naughty content) have to say. Back to the OP. I do tend to agree that this forum has become boring as heck. It's not hard for someone to put their alt into a corp so they can post whatever tinfoil-hattery they feel like posting. Just so long as they list what alt corp they're in. I personally haven't really felt the cold, harsh hand of moderation. But I have noticed that the 30 page epic war posts have gone the way of the dinosaur and the dual MWD. Whether thats from moderation or a Cold War-like stagnation in game, I dunno. One thing I do agree with, is that these forums used to be like the Sunday funnies. I never liked reading B.C., but I was always looking forward to reading the Far Side. Nowadays, the forums are just a poor resource for intel. Check and see who made a public war dec on who, see who's flaming who and move on. While that is still somewhat useful, they are rarely entertaining anymore. And isn't that what we're here for in the long run? To be entertained?

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