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The Module That Shant Be Mentioned

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Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:22:00 - [1] There was a time when this module was well used, when it was difficult getting ships webbed because everyone fitted this module instead. Then it got nerfed. Also it was hit by stacking penalty. Double hit uppercut - K.O. It is well time for an unnerf. Not that it'd make ships with bonuses to this module widely used (this could be done by boosting these ships up from their support role), but it'd make the module useful in other ship setups. Currently T1 is 25% base and T2 is 30% base. I believe that in the beginning they were 50% and 60% respectively. The stacking penalty is enough of a nerf, bring them back up to former levels, I say. Hint: PWNAGE - Three years old
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:30:00 - [2] paintUrZ? Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
Benco97 Gallente On Ravens Wings	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:32:00 - [3] if it's traget painters..well.. I use these fairly regularly and i'm fine with them. Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (F.A.G) and Registered Fedo breeder
Oriodus	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:39:00 - [4] Target painter on my minmatar ships are my best friend. I hardly use webbies on any of my gunships (generaly drone ships)... ...webifiers are very good for their use - i.e. slowing down targets - but target painters improve accuracy for guns, drones and some missiles...which in my view is the reason why they're a more viable module to use.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:45:00 - [5] Well, the thing is that accuracy for guns can be compensated for, the measly amount of extra hit chance a target painter offers is hardly noticable. My drones never have problems hitting in the first place, so fitting a painter just for my drones feels a bit... redundant. And last but not least, when it comes to close combat, a webbifier is somewhere around five times better for your hit chances than a target painter. I PvP all the time, I hardly PvE at all unless I need money. In PvE I can see some uses for a painter, but I find the target painters severely lacking in PvP to the point of them being useless. - Three years old
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:51:00 - [6] Ithildin they make sense with t2 ravens, to get the full damage off rages and javelins but thats about it :\ - Gob [IXC] Admiral Goberius
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Ithildin There was a time when this module was well used, when it was difficult getting ships webbed because everyone fitted this module instead. Then it got nerfed. Also it was hit by stacking penalty. Double hit uppercut - K.O. It is well time for an unnerf. Not that it'd make ships with bonuses to this module widely used (this could be done by boosting these ships up from their support role), but it'd make the module useful in other ship setups. Currently T1 is 25% base and T2 is 30% base. I believe that in the beginning they were 50% and 60% respectively. The stacking penalty is enough of a nerf, bring them back up to former levels, I say. Hint: PWNAGE with specialization skill, I think I get over 60% on it. putting it at 60% base and I would make that mwd'ing inty as big as 2 battleships. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Oriodus	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:57:00 - [8] Sorry - i should have phrased my words a little better - i agree with you on the effect of the webby for pvp, there's no doubting its abilities but in some cases involving artillaries, missiles and drones its better to use a painter in my opinion - but i must admit, in very rare instances. I use a webby on my Iskur, Vexor and also on my arty wolf and sometimes my vaga, but for missions i genrally use target painters (especially on my phoon and on my muninn). My pvp muninn i only use a tracking computer...so even on this ship at long distance i dont use a painter. Maybe painters have more use in pve than pvp?...they do in my case.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Grimpak with specialization skill, I think I get over 60% on it. putting it at 60% base and I would make that mwd'ing inty as big as 2 battleships. Oooh....boost them for that alone. I hate those little ships. ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:00:00 - [10] I've been 'working' on a target painters thread for a while, on and off, with numbers and such. I keep nearly finishing it, then missing something out, and so on and so forth. What I realised was that I really can't be bothered arguing for a painter buff because I don't think it'll ever come. If by some chance it ever did, it would be so far in the future that the game would have changed enough to make any arguments made now incorrect. So instead, here's my contribution: Originally by: Ithildin There was a time when this module was well used, when it was difficult getting ships webbed because everyone fitted this module instead. Then it got nerfed. Also it was hit by stacking penalty. Double hit uppercut - K.O. It is well time for an unnerf. Not that it'd make ships with bonuses to this module widely used (this could be done by boosting these ships up from their support role), but it'd make the module useful in other ship setups. Currently T1 is 25% base and T2 is 30% base. I believe that in the beginning they were 50% and 60% respectively. The stacking penalty is enough of a nerf, bring them back up to former levels, I say. Hint: PWNAGE QFT Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!

inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:01:00 - [11] The barrier to using a target painter in PvP, for me, is it's hard to see if there's a positive effect when tracking tends to dominate hit quality. There may well be one, but damned if I could tell without using one for ages and then trying again without. That said, I am a little curious since reading about an inty versus inty fight where someone made good use of a painter to gain the edge...
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:02:00 - [12] /signed
StarLite Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:05:00 - [13] I noticed hardly anyone actually uses them in battle these days, which is too bad cus they seem like a fine mod to me. ___________________________________________________ This sig is guarded by SigGuard(c) This sig was hijacked by SigBusterÖ - Wrangler Wrangler nerfed my HiJack and all I got was this gold colour :( -Capsicum I am a lawyer for SnigguardÖ, we will be in touch - Cortes
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:06:00 - [14] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Ithildin There was a time when this module was well used, when it was difficult getting ships webbed because everyone fitted this module instead. Then it got nerfed. Also it was hit by stacking penalty. Double hit uppercut - K.O. It is well time for an unnerf. Not that it'd make ships with bonuses to this module widely used (this could be done by boosting these ships up from their support role), but it'd make the module useful in other ship setups. Currently T1 is 25% base and T2 is 30% base. I believe that in the beginning they were 50% and 60% respectively. The stacking penalty is enough of a nerf, bring them back up to former levels, I say. Hint: PWNAGE with specialization skill, I think I get over 60% on it. putting it at 60% base and I would make that mwd'ing inty as big as 2 battleships. No, with a bellicose you can just about push a ship up past 100% increase. The specialization skills add at most 25% efficiency, meaning each terget painter ii will increase from 30% to 37.5%. The target painter base skill only reduces capacitor need. A Bellicose/Huginn/Rapier and max skills pushes the TP2 up to about 51%. Right now with a painter ship and max skills as well as several painters you can push a fat inty that's using a faction/deadspace MWD up to battleship radius, with double efficiency you can double that, certainly, but the question is whether that really matters given the the speeds we are talking about. Bottom line I think is that painters only work really well combined with a ship that can also webbify at extreme ranges. - Three years old
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:13:00 - [15] In my honest opinion, painters need a little buff. Dampeners need a little buff. Caldari Scorpion needs a little buff. --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:19:00 - [16] I dont really support this idea. I think it might bring the game back to the "biggest ship always wins" scenario. Paint that inty and throw missiles at it, and it dies in seconds. People really want that? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Cilppiz FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:22:00 - [17] /signed una salus victis nullam sperare salutem
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/09/2006 11:22:33 Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont really support this idea. I think it might bring the game back to the "biggest ship always wins" scenario. Paint that inty and throw missiles at it, and it dies in seconds. People really want that? If all T2 ammos are changed, why wont ppl want that? Dont think you can pop inty with torps. Need to check it. --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire In my honest opinion, painters need a little buff. Dampeners need a little buff. Caldari Scorpion needs a little buff. Painters could use a small buff. Dampeners need a nerf if anything (splitting them into two modules is a start). The Scorpion could need a buff when the ECM nerf comes. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire If all T2 ammos are changed, why wont ppl want that? Dont think you can pop inty with torps. Need to check it. There was a video on here recently of a Crusader being brought to half armour by a single volley of regular (non-Javelin) torps. How? He was using Gleam.

Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:47:00 - [21] For the people who are wondering, the actual stats on PWNAGE/T2 painters are: Sig Focusing 5: 37.25% increase Sig Focusing 5 + Minmatar Recon 5: 51.56% increase 3x Max skilled Minnie Recon target painters, stacking penalty factored in, gives a target roughly 288% of it's original signature radius. Which still makes almost f all difference to shooting targets with poor tracking weapons, but is fantastic for shooting your targets with rage torps. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Ithildin There was a time when this module was well used, when it was difficult getting ships webbed because everyone fitted this module instead. Then it got nerfed. Also it was hit by stacking penalty. Double hit uppercut - K.O. It is well time for an unnerf. Not that it'd make ships with bonuses to this module widely used (this could be done by boosting these ships up from their support role), but it'd make the module useful in other ship setups. Currently T1 is 25% base and T2 is 30% base. I believe that in the beginning they were 50% and 60% respectively. The stacking penalty is enough of a nerf, bring them back up to former levels, I say. Hint: PWNAGE with specialization skill, I think I get over 60% on it. putting it at 60% base and I would make that mwd'ing inty as big as 2 battleships. No, with a bellicose you can just about push a ship up past 100% increase. The specialization skills add at most 25% efficiency, meaning each terget painter ii will increase from 30% to 37.5%. The target painter base skill only reduces capacitor need. A Bellicose/Huginn/Rapier and max skills pushes the TP2 up to about 51%. Right now with a painter ship and max skills as well as several painters you can push a fat inty that's using a faction/deadspace MWD up to battleship radius, with double efficiency you can double that, certainly, but the question is whether that really matters given the the speeds we are talking about. Bottom line I think is that painters only work really well combined with a ship that can also webbify at extreme ranges. oh yah... my mistake. making posts before coffee = not good. that way I /signed this. but only if with specialization skill, the painter reaches 50% (60% in T2). ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:54:00 - [23] Edited by: Testy Mctest on 22/09/2006 11:56:13 Originally by: Grimpak putting it at 60% base and I would make that mwd'ing inty as big as 2 battleships. But because of the way the hit formula works, signature radius is irrelevent if the target is moving fast enough (unless sig radius hits truly massive levels, which is impossible currently). For example, neither turrets nor missiles (even precision lights) will hit a target doing 7.5km/s even with 3 max skilled recon painters on it, unless they do something stupid (like MWD toward the shooter). Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:57:00 - [24] target painter are ok, i dont think they are really ment for clsoe range guns! your average HAC, say a deimos goes from 160m to 220m. meaning that a cruise missile will do 98% of full dmg!! uping from 71% of a non painted deimos! or take a deimos painted by a ship with TP vonous and trip target painter. you get > 400sig. so t1 torps will do max damage. and without the painters they would be doing only 40% of max. they do work! also take into accout that target painters buff the whole gangs dmg!
Hectaire Glade Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.22 12:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/09/2006 11:22:33 Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont really support this idea. I think it might bring the game back to the "biggest ship always wins" scenario. Paint that inty and throw missiles at it, and it dies in seconds. People really want that? If all T2 ammos are changed, why wont ppl want that? Dont think you can pop inty with torps. Need to check it. Bit of a broken record there Jenny, all I've seen you post about lately is T2 ammo, adapt, imho.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.22 13:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Hectaire Glade Bit of a broken record there Jenny, all I've seen you post about lately is T2 ammo, adapt, imho. Adapted and not really bothered about it unless people are talking about balance. Think CCP might change them. Logically, they would eventually change them. FYI, I use Javelin and Rage rockets. --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.22 13:41:00 - [27] /signed. Even on a recon with max skills a TP is still only "meh" unless used with torps. I agree that with a stacking penalty, 60% with skills should be fine. It was overpowered prior to the stacking penalty because you could fly around and take stations in 20 min if you had about 30 BS equipped with TP. That doesn't apply any more. A Hughinn with a TP should get the Recon bonus on top of the 60% though. After all, a TP doesn't disable the enemy, nor does it damage them. On the recon it should be "zomggood" since it only helps other people kill things. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:06:00 - [28] Yeah, I'd love to be able to pop an approaching inty with my stealth, but if that means that any big ship with a painter can insta-pop any smaller ship, no thanks. I think battles are too bs based as is; I'd like to see more mixed fleets. If you want to boost TP's, I think boosting the bonus on the minnie recons is a way to make them more viable in PvP. Daisetsunamono, protect my balls! Boku ga warui, so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Suroki Inamita	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:25:00 - [29] I love my TP2 on my Cruise Raven for PvE...Single-volley killing the toughest NPC cruisers FTW I don't use one in PvP only because there's always a better mid-slot mod - webber, scram, tracking comp, another cap rech T2, another shield hardener, ECM, ECCM, on and on... IMO, there's only two things needed to buff TP (both would be good, only one of two is fine) 1. Change Signature Focusing from 5% to 10% boost - L4 would boost a TP2 to 44% increase 2. Release the Faction/Officer versions. WTB Estamel's Mofified TP w/ 50% sig increase base Just my $.02
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.09.22 17:28:00 - [30] Originally by: Nyxus /signed. Even on a recon with max skills a TP is still only "meh" unless used with torps. I agree that with a stacking penalty, 60% with skills should be fine. It was overpowered prior to the stacking penalty because you could fly around and take stations in 20 min if you had about 30 BS equipped with TP. That doesn't apply any more. A Hughinn with a TP should get the Recon bonus on top of the 60% though. After all, a TP doesn't disable the enemy, nor does it damage them. On the recon it should be "zomggood" since it only helps other people kill things. Nyxus No, but it gives benefits for your whole gang, not only yourself. As does a web, you'll tell me, but a Web has a strictly limited range. The problem with boosting target painters, is that they advantage missile boats a lot more than gunships. Imho, tracking issues that arise with high-sig + high-speed = immune to turret fire must be conrected before any boost to target painters can be considered. ------------------------------------------ Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward? Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy.



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