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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
907
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:16:26 -
[1] - Quote
This has been proposed before as a 'Why don't we...?' but I thought I'd put more flesh to the idea:
Running through a COSMOS mission and receiving a BPC for a storyline module got me thinking.
To make the module requires artifacts and components gathered from the mission sites with relic analyzer and hacking.
Faction items should be produced in a similar way. Instead of dropping the entire module though a BPC should be dropped instead.
Along with the mineral requirements there would be faction specific items and PI items required in the build that are gathered from relic sites along with standard salvage etc (would give a reason to hack relic sites in hisec too).
As an example:
Low grade armour repairer:
moderate low grade minerals
low mid grade minerals
very low/no high grade minerals
low faction components
one faction armour relic
moderate Nanites
Industry level I
Faction construction skill level II
Medium grade armour repairer:
High low grade minerals
Moderate mid grade minerals
Low/no high grade minerals
Moderate faction components
Several faction armour/robotics relic
Moderate Nanites
Low Robotics
Industry level III
Faction construction skill level IV
High grade armour repairer:
High low grade minerals
Moderate mid grade minerals
Low/no high grade minerals
High faction components
Many faction armour/robotics relic
Moderate Nanites
Low/moderate Robotics
Low Gel-Matrix Biopaste
Industry level V
Faction construction skill level V
I would see faction BPC's dropping in combat sites/escalations rather than the complete item.
With this a manufacture player could make profit by buying all components and building them,
an explorer can make isk finding and selling the components, a combat pilot can make isk from the BPC's,
a PI player has new uses for their goods and a skilled player/corp can make money by gathering and
building end to end.
Throw in exploration escalations where players can gain more component/relics/BPC's and this could be
a good boost to many areas of play whilst hopefully encouraging more players to explore lower sec areas
for better loot. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
526
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:36:16 -
[2] - Quote
faction modules do have BPCs that are dropped or bought from LP shops unless i'm not understanding you
Fuel block colors
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
907
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:40:04 -
[3] - Quote
I was thinking more for the Pirate factions, so Serpentis, Angel, Sans, Guristas. I'll amend the OP
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Foxicity
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
109
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:41:46 -
[4] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:faction modules do have BPCs that are dropped or bought from LP shops unless i'm not understanding you
I think he is proposing a "main cost is exotic materials" approach to faction items. How he chooses to alter the rarity of the BPCs (and the inherent value of that) will need to be explained in more depth.
I got ninja'd it's pirate items  |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
907
|
Posted - 2015.01.18 13:49:37 -
[5] - Quote
Foxicity wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:faction modules do have BPCs that are dropped or bought from LP shops unless i'm not understanding you
I think he is proposing a "main cost is exotic materials" approach to faction items. How he chooses to alter the rarity of the BPCs (and the inherent value of that) will need to be explained in more depth. I got ninja'd it's pirate items
A BPC would drop instead of a pirate faction module and have requirements for items other then 'Push button build bacon'
This could be something from exploration sites only though rather than changing the drops from combat sites. They would still drop modules as any ship would. However relic sites/data sites could drop the BPC's from escalations along with materials for construction.
Explo escalations would re-use the mechanics from the new cache sites to a degree. Things to avoid, things to do to activeate / de-activete areas of the pocket, with each of the first 3 steps yielding a set of details that lead to the next site. The sites would drop (potentally) the BPC at the same chance as the combat sites and when a BPC is dropped the item is handled in the loot tables as if the full module dropped. to maintain the current level of Faction modules entering the market |
Lugh Crow-Slave
527
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:00:13 -
[6] - Quote
I would like this done with named items as well meta 1-4 (some drop as items some as BPCs)
Fuel block colors
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
907
|
Posted - 2015.01.18 14:16:59 -
[7] - Quote
With this method it could be tested on a subset to see how well it works. Boosting the number of pilots exploring would boost the number of pilots wiling to try new areas I think and potetnially increase the number of people in lower sec areas. Once exploriing those regions it is more likely that a % of those players would also choose to move there. |
Krodes Thara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.01.20 13:58:10 -
[8] - Quote
How about an escalation to a faction site if all containers in site are hacked successfully.
New escalation site can't be scanned and might contain pirate items bpc. Escalation site will vanish in 24 hours like combat escalation.
Make faction containers harder to hack (null level) or make 3 sites like sleepers cache.
And maybe it would be possible to solve something else... Make those BPCs use in production some of the things from exploration that have almost no use and no value right now. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
913
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Posted - 2015.01.20 14:29:29 -
[9] - Quote
Krodes Thara wrote:How about an escalation to a faction site if all containers in site are hacked successfully.
New escalation site can't be scanned and might contain pirate items bpc. Escalation site will vanish in 24 hours like combat escalation.
Make faction containers harder to hack (null level) or make 3 sites like sleepers cache.
And maybe it would be possible to solve something else... Make those BPCs use in production some of the things from exploration that have almost no use and no value right now.
I like the idea of cracking all cans leading to the escalation chance, I'll put that in the OP. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality
DARKNESS.
917
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Posted - 2015.01.20 18:15:49 -
[10] - Quote
Given the mass of people who do exploration, I'm very very leery of a system like this crashing the market for the pirate items they produce. Kind of like what happened to t2 salvage prices. (although I love that)
I'm going to propose limiting the BPC drops from explorations it to each of the "Home" regions of each of the pirate factions. The material sites could drop everywhere, but the limit on the BPC's would prevent market flood.
So only in Delve would you have a chance of Blood Raider sites escalation, only in Fountain for Serp, only in Curse for Angels, Venal for Guristas, etc, etc, etc. Note that all of these have areas where there are NPC sov sections and NPC stations.
If all sites had a chance everywhere to escalate, we would rapidly see the price of faction items currently only available as drops or LP stores drop like a rock from the sheer mass of thousands of scanners doing 10's of thousands of sites.
I'd also say that the drops from rats should remain in completed mod format. The faction ships are not carrying around BPC's for their items after all, they have them fitted to their ships, we are simply looting them from their wreckage. |
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Grezh
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
21
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Posted - 2015.01.20 19:27:59 -
[11] - Quote
This idea could also be extended to deadspace mods only if the bpc dropped from the same rats that the mods did or some special can/rat in the region (lower mod drop rate, add a bpc drop rate, increase total drop rate a smidgen to keep the income the same) . In general i support any suggestion that increases the amount of the mods and ships that the players produce (as opposed to getting them as drops).
Crazy idea: replace meta mod drops from rats to 'meta' mats, add meta mod bpcs to data sites that are made from meta mats and the t1 mod or some other mats? |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality
DARKNESS.
917
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Posted - 2015.01.20 19:47:34 -
[12] - Quote
Grezh wrote:This idea could also be extended to deadspace mods only if the bpc dropped from the same rats that the mods did or some special can/rat in the region (lower mod drop rate, add a bpc drop rate, increase total drop rate a smidgen to keep the income the same) . In general i support any suggestion that increases the amount of the mods and ships that the players produce (as opposed to getting them as drops).
Crazy idea: replace meta mod drops from rats to 'meta' mats, add meta mod bpcs to data sites that are made from meta mats and the t1 mod or some other mats?
Problem is that of the meta mods, only meta 4 mods are worth anything. And of the meta 4's, even most of them are near worthless because there are no real reason to fit the meta 4 if you can fit t2.
So if you had to make the meta mods, none of the meta 1-3 would be made, because typically 95% of the value of said mods are the minerals they can be reprocessed into.
So the materials would be worthless since they are in abundance of dozens of times more than required to make the meta 4 items, and non faction rat loot wouldn't even be worth picking up. The BPC's from the few types of meta 4 that are commonly used would be the only things in the entire process worth cargo space.
A major nerf to ratting, missioning, and salvaging in the process. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
922
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Posted - 2015.01.25 14:22:15 -
[13] - Quote
This would only be a nerf to ratting and missioning if a player is too lazy to make the effort to place buy orders and build the things. In that case the maufacturers, PI people etc would benefit and the process of providing pirate faction goods to the market would become a more rounded process. Navy faction stuff should probably still be provided pre-built as it is a reward for loyalty , though perhaps the BPC should be available too for extra profit to those willing to make the effort. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions
Poopstain Removal Team
544
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Posted - 2015.01.25 15:50:25 -
[14] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would only be a nerf to ratting and missioning if a player is too lazy to make the effort to place buy orders and build the things. In that case the maufacturers, PI people etc would benefit and the process of providing pirate faction goods to the market would become a more rounded process. Navy faction stuff should probably still be provided pre-built as it is a reward for loyalty , though perhaps the BPC should be available too for extra profit to those willing to make the effort.
Hmm.. So you could make some Gurista Railguns or Guristas Cruiser missile launchers that cannot use tech2 ammo for example just for the sake of bling?
I would like it a little more if the Rogue Drones across nullsec would drop some sentient drone modules (the faction one with the green tag) in the belts and some blue tag deadspace modules they currently lack.
signature
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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality
DARKNESS.
927
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Posted - 2015.01.25 16:47:05 -
[15] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would only be a nerf to ratting and missioning if a player is too lazy to make the effort to place buy orders and build the things. In that case the maufacturers, PI people etc would benefit and the process of providing pirate faction goods to the market would become a more rounded process. Navy faction stuff should probably still be provided pre-built as it is a reward for loyalty , though perhaps the BPC should be available too for extra profit to those willing to make the effort.
You really don't understand, let me lay it out for you.
Meta 1-3 is trash, most meta 4's are trash, and their value derives only from the fact that they can be broken down into minerals.
Nearly all meta 1-3 items are bought purely for the purpose of turning around and melting them down into minerals.
This means that there is no point in building them, because there is no demand for them to be bought for fitting on ships, because their value was tied to their reprocessing mineral value.
Do you understand now? |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Quantum Distributions
1377
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Posted - 2015.01.26 01:08:37 -
[16] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would only be a nerf to ratting and missioning if a player is too lazy to make the effort to place buy orders and build the things. In that case the maufacturers, PI people etc would benefit and the process of providing pirate faction goods to the market would become a more rounded process. Navy faction stuff should probably still be provided pre-built as it is a reward for loyalty , though perhaps the BPC should be available too for extra profit to those willing to make the effort. You really don't understand, let me lay it out for you. Meta 1-3 is trash, most meta 4's are trash, and their value derives only from the fact that they can be broken down into minerals. Nearly all meta 1-3 items are bought purely for the purpose of turning around and melting them down into minerals. This means that there is no point in building them, because there is no demand for them to be bought for fitting on ships, because their value was tied to their reprocessing mineral value. Do you understand now?
uh, what? Meta 3 is often more cost effective than t2, and meta4 is great when fitting is an issue. You might be able to make that claim for meta1-2 items, but meta 3-4 see extensive use in lower end pvp ships.
New player resources:
Uni Wiki - General Info
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Belligerent Undesirables - High Sec Pvp
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
925
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Posted - 2015.01.26 11:06:36 -
[17] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:This would only be a nerf to ratting and missioning if a player is too lazy to make the effort to place buy orders and build the things. In that case the maufacturers, PI people etc would benefit and the process of providing pirate faction goods to the market would become a more rounded process. Navy faction stuff should probably still be provided pre-built as it is a reward for loyalty , though perhaps the BPC should be available too for extra profit to those willing to make the effort. You really don't understand, let me lay it out for you. Meta 1-3 is trash, most meta 4's are trash, and their value derives only from the fact that they can be broken down into minerals. Nearly all meta 1-3 items are bought purely for the purpose of turning around and melting them down into minerals. This means that there is no point in building them, because there is no demand for them to be bought for fitting on ships, because their value was tied to their reprocessing mineral value. Do you understand now?
I understood the first time. I also just checked the low grade Pirate faction stuff I have in my sell warehouse and the lowest meta level there is 8.
In response to your point though (Note I was talking about Pirate faction items, not standard low meta loot drops) I see no issue with eventually making everything player built and dropping BPC's instead. Consider if we did this:
Before patch any player would melt down the low meta modules (cleaning up some DB entries in the process).
After patch any module bought would be player built or left over stock. The price would settle at its own point and players would only build enough items to supply the current demand.
Other things such as higher grade loot/scrap metal etc can have mineral refine amounts amended to account for any change expected in the mineral market by removing low grade items and replacing with BPC's.
Miners get a boost in their career
Manufacturers get a boost in their career with low grade meta items becoming the standard 'trainer' items for budding industrialists.
Also you may want to train 'Patronize' higher than level II and perhaps fit a Pirate Experimental 'Partonizer' module (that's meta level 13 btw)  |
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