Caldari are missile based. Not Gallente based. If I wanted a hybrid boat I'd go for the Talos, which by the way is almost exactly the same. Why release a beam ship, an artillery boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced. That basically gives all missile users the finger, a caldari player have to skill up in Hybrid turrets just to use it. ((To clarify, I already have all the skills for large hybrid but alot of my corpies don't. They teched up to Ravens and scorps, so they cant use a ship of their own race because they don't have the weapons for it.))

Simply put, we don't need a hybrid ship, there were no missile ships released in this patch and there should have been. It's not fair for caldari players that you release two gallente ships in one patch.

-Hellz

But all of those give you the option of doing a hybrid/ missile boat. They give you the option of adding in missiles should you so desire, the Naga doesn't give you the same freedom. Therefore, not working as intended.

Yeah I'm a big fan of my blaster/torp rokh.

Well the thread's not about your sarcastic replies about whether or not you think a torp/blaster rokh is effective. The threads about the fact that we got 4 new ships released and 2 of them were almost identical, using the same weapon class, and missiles didn't get any sorta love this patch.

You mean the jewcrew did not get any love from the new ships...am I right?

I'm glad to see another Caldari hybrid boat, especially in the form of a battlecruiser. I'd also like to see the Tengu's hybrid sub get some improvements. Saying Caldari are missile-only is like saying Amarr are laser only: you have to ignore several good ships to make that claim.

True, but when you think of Amarr, you think of lasers, Minimatar is projectile weapons, Gallente is hybrids, and Caldari are missiles. Every other race got a ship in line with their primary weapons system, which ensures that a majority of the people that fly that race are able to effectively use the ship.

True, but when you think of Amarr, you think of lasers, Minimatar is projectile weapons, Gallente is hybrids, and Caldari are missiles. Every other race got a ship in line with their primary weapons system, which ensures that a majority of the people that fly that race are able to effectively use the ship.

Every race has a primary and secondary weapon system.

Gallente: Hybrids and drones.
Caldari: Hybrids and missiles.
Amarr: Lasers and missiles/drones.
Minmitar: Projectiles and missiles.

The only reason people THINK "Gallente's primary weapons are drones" and "Caldari's primary weapons are missiles" is because of the poor state that hybrid weapons have been in for so long. With the recent buff this is less the case.

Every race has a primary and secondary weapon system.

Gallente: Hybrids and drones.
Caldari: Hybrids and missiles.
Amarr: Lasers and missiles/drones.
Minmitar: Projectiles and missiles.

The only reason people THINK "Gallente's primary weapons are drones" and "Caldari's primary weapons are missiles" is because of the poor state that hybrid weapons have been in for so long. With the recent buff this is less the case.

Caldari are missile based. Not Gallente based. If I wanted a hybrid boat I'd go for the Talos, which by the way is almost exactly the same. Why release a beam ship, an artillery boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced. That basically gives all missile users the finger, a caldari player have to skill up in Hybrid turrets just to use it. ((To clarify, I already have all the skills for large hybrid but alot of my corpies don't. They teched up to Ravens and scorps, so they cant use a ship of their own race because they don't have the weapons for it.))

Simply put, we don't need a hybrid ship, there were no missile ships released in this patch and there should have been. It's not fair for caldari players that you release two gallente ships in one patch.

-Hellz

Not the other way around mate. Other wise you'd have two races with the same primary weapons systems which would be awkward and unbalanced.

Caldari are missile based. Not Gallente based. If I wanted a hybrid boat I'd go for the Talos, which by the way is almost exactly the same. Why release a beam ship, an artillery boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced. That basically gives all missile users the finger, a caldari player have to skill up in Hybrid turrets just to use it. ((To clarify, I already have all the skills for large hybrid but alot of my corpies don't. They teched up to Ravens and scorps, so they cant use a ship of their own race because they don't have the weapons for it.))

Simply put, we don't need a hybrid ship, there were no missile ships released in this patch and there should have been. It's not fair for caldari players that you release two gallente ships in one patch.

-Hellz

Every race uses multiple weapons systems. Some even use both armor and shield tanking. Caldari have plenty of very VERY good missile ships and now they have a viable hybrid boat, stop crying and train for the rest of your race's weapons, its your (or your corpies') fault for putting yourselves in a limited number of ships.


Also I like how you say the oracle is meant to use BEAMS

Caldari tears best tears.

Actually if you really want to get technical Caldrai were fighter based.

Proof or it didn't happen :P

The Caldari hoped their small, fast one-man fighters would run circles around the Gallente ships. From
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=aug01

Amarr have missile ships. Why wasn't their Tier 3 battlecruiser missile based. CCP I demand missiles for this!

Gallente are known for drones. CCP DRONES FOR TIER 3 BC!

Seriously dude, stop crying about this. Its not that big a deal. Hybrid Naga is a pretty cool boat, tell your friends to stop being useless carebears and train something other than missile boats.

stuff

No, you specifically said beams. And if you actually did have a good understanding of racial weapons systems then you wouldn't have made this topic. Caldari have 2 primary weapons so you can't only train one and expect to fly every new Caldari ship right when it comes out. Sure hybrids suck(ed?), so its understandable that people wouldn't be inclined to train them over missiles, but CCP stated that they would be getting some love, even after Crucible's initial launch. That anyone didn't train them in anticipation of that (especially if it is their own race's weapons) is their own fault.


Besides 8 torps would have either been totally useless or stupidly overpowered

They have a primary and a secondary. All their combat ships have missile slots, Except the Naga, however, not all of their ships have hybrid slots. Which makes Hybrids the secondary weapon system, due to missiles being the more prominent weapon system on Caldari ships.

I'm not even taking that reply seriously. If you can't see why then there is no point wasting time here any longer.

Of course not. It makes sense so I'm not going to reply to it. Good choice mate.

Your point is negated by the fact that Amarr's primary weapon is lasers, therefore that's what their t3 bc was. Seeing a trend here? Now quit throwing out stupid points that have nothing to do with the subject, please.

Oh and Drones are also Gallente's secondary weapon. Point negated yet again, and useless carebears? Hardly. I have at least three times your kills mate. Kinda negates your carebear argument there.

But you are wrong, caldari do use hybrids, look at the ferox, rokh, cormorant and assorted frigates.

If they can't use a ship of their own race because don't have the skill for it, it means that they are poorly skilled and should realise that theres more to caldari than just missiles.

Three times my kills???????????????

Guess that makes my opinion useless.

Or it makes you a moron for thinking that matters.

You decide!

Hint: you're a moron.

Confirming the merlin, harpy, moa, eagle, ferox, vulture and rokh have missile bonuses instead of hybrid bonuses.

Seriously, get over it. Half the caldari ships are hybrid boats, specifically favoring railguns rather than blasters. The naga fits in perfectly with that line of ships. A corp mate has one and it's one hell of a sniper BC. In fact it's a hell of a sniper overall. It boasts very impressive DPS at 60-100km and I don't think the other tier 3's will be able to compete with it at those ranges. You can't blame anyone but yourself for failing to realize that caldari are NOT just a missile race and never have been.

I clearly said several times that Hybrids are the SECONDARY weapons system*. Learn to read

As stated multiple times before, I am not saying Caldari do not use hybrids, but all of those hybrids have missile slots. The Naga doesn't. Second point, every other race got a new bc geared towards their main weapons system. Caldari did not.

I appreciate the bumps guys, but at least try to throw out an argument that holds water rather then some half ass paraphrased excuse for an argument.

Caldari are missile based. Not Hybrid based. If I wanted a hybrid boat I'd go for the Talos, which by the way is almost exactly the same. Why release a laser ship, a projectile boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced. That basically gives all missile users the finger, a caldari player have to skill up in Hybrid turrets just to use it. ((To clarify, I already have all the skills for large hybrid but alot of my corpies don't. They teched up to Ravens and scorps, so they cant use a ship of their own race because they don't have the weapons for it.))

Simply put, we don't need a hybrid ship, there were no missile ships released in this patch and there should have been. It's not fair for caldari players that you release two gallente ships in one patch.

-Hellz

[quote=Hellz Hitman]Last time I was on the test server I could fit a whole rack of torps on the Naga.

You do realize that you called me a carebear. So I responded with the fact that I'm sitting around 800 kills where as you're sitting around 200 which would make you a care bear as well.

Also you do realize how stupid you are right? You call me a carebear and I defend myself stating the amount of kills I have, and you turn around and say that I am somehow saying that means your opinion doesn't matter?
I said nothing of the sort and you for some reason can't comprehend that.




I clearly said several times that Hybrids are the SECONDARY weapons system. Learn to read before you come in here and try to troll like you're johnny bad ass or something. And it's not one hell of a sniper ship honestly, it rolls appx 600 dps with maxed out skills with decent tracking at 80km. Aint exactly amazing there.

As stated multiple times before, I am not saying Caldari do not use hybrids, but all of those hybrids have missile slots. The Naga doesn't. Second point, every other race got a new bc geared towards their main weapons system. Caldari did not.

I appreciate the bumps guys, but at least try to throw out an argument that holds water rather then some half ass paraphrased excuse for an argument.

First, none of the Tier 3 battlecruisers sport a second weapon system, so the Naga is in line with the rest of the Tier 3 Battlecruisers.

Second, the Naga, like the other Tier 3 Battlecruisers, was built for PVP combat. CCP also decided that it was a good idea to give the Caldari a serious PVP ship because the Ferox is woefully underpowered as both a railgun and blaster platform. On the other hand, the Caldari have what many consider to be the best Battlecruiser in the game, the Drake. The Drake is a solid performer as a missile launcher, and mounts substantial damage and tanking advantages. The big problem is that missile systems, at range, take too much time to reach their target. So, CCP gave Caldari a really good Railgun platform because it needed one. You should be giggling with joy over the fact that it makes a pretty decent blaster platform too.

So, if you are upset that CCP actually gave you some real, substantial PVP ship choices.. be my guest.

Every race has a primary and secondary weapon system.

Gallente: Hybrids and drones.
Caldari: Hybrids and missiles.
Amarr: Lasers and missiles/drones.
Minmitar: Projectiles and missiles.

The only reason people THINK "Gallente's primary weapons are drones" and "Caldari's primary weapons are missiles" is because of the poor state that hybrid weapons have been in for so long. With the recent buff this is less the case.

Less the case ya.

But by the way have you read the lore? Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.

Though CCP hates on drones normaly more then missiles though both got poked in the eye this time.

But ya Hybirds are still crap. Drones and Missiles are the best thing going for Gallente and Caldari ships.

Why release a laser ship, a projectile boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced?

Simple. If Caldari had too many missle boats already, and not enough rail boats.
These new BCs are supposed to be the baby brothers to the associated t3 Battleship class. You're giving Rokh pilots the finger.

The rail Naga owns. Learn to love it.

Saying Caldari are missile-only is like saying Amarr are laser only: you have to ignore several good ships to make that claim.

Naglaf - Projectile (auto's or artillery)Eva

WHY did someone revive this long dead horse? There was another thread about this recently as well. On the test server before Crucible was released there were people using Naga's to flat out obliterate Battleships using torps. There are even a few vids on YouTube of this. It was far too overpowered and had to be neutered. I would love a cruise Naga though...but the Naga is fine as is with Rails honestly.

Caldari are missile based. Not Hybrid based. If I wanted a hybrid boat I'd go for the Talos, which by the way is almost exactly the same. Why release a laser ship, a projectile boat, and then 2 hybrid boats. How is that even balanced. That basically gives all missile users the finger, a caldari player have to skill up in Hybrid turrets just to use it. ((To clarify, I already have all the skills for large hybrid but alot of my corpies don't. They teched up to Ravens and scorps, so they cant use a ship of their own race because they don't have the weapons for it.))

Simply put, we don't need a hybrid ship, there were no missile ships released in this patch and there should have been. It's not fair for caldari players that you release two gallente ships in one patch.

-Hellz

Caldari are missile based. Not Hybrid based.

A load of complete crap.

BUT THERE'S ALREADY A HYBRID TIER 3 OMFGWTFDERP

herp derp derp herp derp

It was a missile platform originally, but since the theme was "cheap'ish sniper" the only alternative was cruise which are quite frankly horrid hence the change to guns.

stuff

Heron - is a probing ship, the fact it has a missile bonus is purely incidental.
Manticore - is a stealth bomber. All the stealth bombers have missiles, regardless of race. I don't see many threads from Minmatar whining about how their Hounds can't fit artillery, do you?
Flycatcher - is a dictor, and the fact it's missile bonused makes no difference whatsoever to its role.
Onyx - is a hictor, and the fact it's missile bonused makes no difference whatsoever to its role.
Tengu - nice to see you listed this under both categories, missing the irony that if the Naga were made into dual missiles/hybrids, the missile variant would be worthless much like the hybrid Tengu is.
Widow - is an ECM/jump bridge monkey, the fact it's missile bonused makes no difference whatsoever to its role.

Caldari are missile based.

Flycatcher/Onyx - They do happen to be dictors, but I also believe that they need to fix dictors so they can be used with the weapon systems they have bonuses for.

Even if you remove the heron, manticore, and widow, my previous analysis stands unchanged.

Yes, I realize that the missile version would be useless in a gang/fleet, unless you were shooting structures with Torps... I would like to have both options available.

... Umm, what? Damage dealing isn't their job. They have only token weapon systems as they do just fine at bubbling/infinipointing. If they were doing decent DPS, they'd have to have compromised somewhere on the "interdictor" part of their description.

You have no shortage of structure bashers available. Including the blaster/rail Naga, in fact.

The only reason you dont see caldari dictors fitting missiles is due to using up all their powergrid on tank modules. I want to be able to fit the weapons systems those ships have bonuses for, while still being able to perform the role adequately. DPS doesnt even come into it, I dont really care about the DPS, I just want to be able to fit the weapons in the first place.

I am not arguing that, all I am saying is that I want to have the option of using torps on the naga.

Flycatcher - fitting weapons to it is a waste of money anyway.

Yeah, that's an awesome justification.

That is a matter of opinion.

• Amarr: Lasers
• Minmatar: Projectiles
• Gallente: Drones & Hybrids
• Caldari: Missiles & Hybrids.

amirite?

• Amarr: Lasers
• Minmatar: Projectiles
• Gallente: Drones & Hybrids
• Caldari: Missiles & Hybrids.

amirite?

In order to get the most out of their race, Caldari must train missiles and hybrids.

In order to get the most out of their race, Gallente must train drones and hybrids.

I don't see the problem here.

the Talos uses hybrids, and has a small drone bay.

the Naga cannot use missiles, but it used to, in the test server phase.

- it would make perfect sense to be able to use missiles, besides hybrids and it would add more interest to the ships and you would expect the caldari Tier 3 Battlecruiser to use the guns that made Caldari famous for, the missile launchers.

and wile you're at it, all New Tier 3 bc's should have a small drone bay, anyway, not just the Talos.

Caldari are missile based. Not Hybrid based.