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ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 302	Posted - 2015.01.28 03:24:07 - [1] - Quote I don't think that anyone should be rushing into Battleships. They have very long skill training. Most ships that you would fly in level 4 missions have a drone bay and the drone dps is nothing to be ignored. Not to mention that if any scramming frigs manage to get under your guns you could be asking in local or asking a friend to come get you out of your mission space. If you can't use any drones and have no drone skills I think that you might want to consider getting your support skills up before jumping into a BS. Probably the fastest route into a level 4 mission ship is going with a T3 cruiser. The medium weapon skills and Tech 3 skills train pretty fast. I can't speak for all of them but I know plenty of people that have flown Tengus in level 4's and sworn that they are better than any battleship for running level 4 missions. I realize that's a missile boat I'm just saying that I know it works so maybe the proteus might be something to look into if you want to stick with hybrids. Or stick with turrets and cross train into projectiles or lazors and go the legion or loki route. I just think that cross training into a different medium weapon system will be a faster training time than getting competently skilled in a BS. Going tech 2 and sticking with medium ships might be an option as well but the only experience I have with that is the Ishtar which is an awesome ship definitely capable of level 4s but it's drone boat which you do not want. I can't speak from personally experience for any of the other HACs but I have to assume that there are others nearly as good as the Ishtar. Just for a general overview Minmatar are mostly a projectile race and Amarr mostly lazors. They both have a few exceptions to this and both races BSs all have drone bays but their ships are predominantly based around their racial turret. Galentte and Caldari both share hybrids which would make one think that it opens up 2 races with one weapon system. However the Galentte have a lot of drone boats and Caldari have a lot of missile boats so if you want to make effective use of either of those race's ship skills you will need to train a secondary weapon system. So to make use of the weapon system sharing you would essentially have to train 3 weapon systems and 2 racial ship lines. Minmatar and Amarr share a lot more weapons skills in common due to the common turret support skills. However Minmatar mostly shield tank and Amarr mostly armor tank so you split your training that way. However I think you can get compotent in a second tanking skill much faster than a second weapons system. Another major consideration is that the hybrids only do kinetic / thermal damage so if you are going up against guristas and serpentis on a regular basis then that is a good thing however if you local rats have a high kinetic damage resist then you will have a much lower delivered DPS due to much of your damage being resisted. In the end you'll wind up needing to train it all anyway so none of it will be wasted training. Further there is no wrong way to do it. I'm just giving you information here. Things for you to consider. If you do decide to stick with the Rokh I would imagine you'll want to fit a MJD and range tank mostly. However my seat time in a Rokh is minimal and all of it prior to the introduction of MJDs to the game. So there is all of my advice / disclaimers. Hope at least some of it was helpful.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 302	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:29:56 - [2] - Quote I just want to reinforce here that focusing on Caldari and hybrids is a dead end and probably your least optimal combo in game. If you go this route the next best option for you to crosstrain when you realize you are out of options is Minmatar as your shield and generic gunnery skill will transfer over. If you intend to stick with caldari be prepared to train missiles. If you intend to stick with turrets go any other race than Caldari, but Minmatar or Amarr are more focused on turrets in general than Gallente. Amarr is probably the most turret focused race. Another thing to take into consideration is look through the faction ships and see which seem to appeal to you and what skills they require you to crosstrain into. For example a Gallente Minmatar combo gets you access to Machariels and Vindicators which are both excellent incursion ships and the Machariel is probably one of the if not the best level 4 mission ship in game. One paper the Vindi looks good for level 4's also. Along those lines the Vargur and Kronos are both great level 4 mission running marauders.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 302	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:41:24 - [3] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Just some misconceptions i want to clear up. I want to back up what Rex said here and agree with him. What ever route you go will have use for the skills that you train in the future. No matter what you do you will almost certainly be needing it all and none of it will go to waste. If you want to focus on the level 4 Rokh go right ahead. If you decide you want to fly other ships in the future which you will then you will crosstrain which you will as everyone does.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 303	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:35:53 - [4] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Missiles are probably the most widespread in how their bonus/turret slot cross over to other races, followed by hybrids. I wanted to write something similar to this about drones but I thought more on it and could not come up with a clear answer. Every race has ships that are turret based. No race has every ship using turrets as the primary weapon system. Every race use drones on almost every ship however only the Galentte specialize in it and outside Gallente off the top of my head I can only think of the Amarr cruiser the Arbitrator that has a drone bonus (excluding pirate factions which use 2 racial bonuses ) Only Caldari specialize in missile boats however both Amarr and Minmatar have some missile boats in their line ups and Minmatar has many ships which use both and I can't think of any Gallente ship that use missiles aside from the stealth bomber called the Nemesis. I'm not disagreeing with Rex on what he said. I'm only saying that I tried to come up with a similar recommendation and myself could not come up with a clear answer. Clearly drones are used on the highest percentage of ships however are the primary weapon system on the least number of ships. Turrets are the most common but each race has it's own turret type so turrets are by far the most common in general but if you look at the different types ( projectiles, hybrids, lazors ) it becomes the most racial specific weapon system. Caldari are the missile specialists but Minmatar and Amarr both have ships in their line up that specialize and are bonused for missiles so in that sense of specific weapon types that are the primary weapon system on the most races clearly missiles are it.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 306	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:11:24 - [5] - Quote Typhoid Mary wrote: Thanks to everyone who has put forward their advice! One of the really great things (and also most daunting to a new player) is the sheer amount of options out there for every role that you could imagine. I am slowly learning though, and based on the stuff I have read here, and the rest of the forums I am starting to get a grasp on the ships, their roles and how the skills you train for a ship translates to the ships of other races. If you play this game with any kind of regularity after a year of playing you should have a decent idea of what you like to do and what kind of direction you'd like to go in. It's pretty easy to come up with enough skills to fill up a year worth of training that are generic / support skills that will be used by nearly any ship that you pilot. You really should not be trying to beeline into any one specific BS in that time anyway. I tell most new guys that they should focus on small and medium ships early on and if you do that and wait to fly a BS until you have sufficient support skills then there really should be no problem. You can train most stuff to level 2 or 3 in no time so you can train various things just to try them out and if you like them train them higher and if not you haven't lost much. By the time you are ready to fly a BS you should know enough about the game to know which one you want to fly. Eventually you are probably going to want to have frig 5 and cruiser 5 in all 4 races just because of the shear number of tech 2 and faction ships that opens up to you. 6 or 7 years into this game and just today I finished training some skill that I know I'll probably never use but I'm remapped for it now and just in case I might want to use it in the future. I'm pretty sure this is the first skill that I've trained on this toon that I think might not be of use to me. After a year skills train slower and in most cases don't even notice the difference. I just finished repair systems 5 on my main a couple months ago and my main ship is armor tanked and have not noticed the difference. What I'm saying is that after a year you will be roughly equivalent to older players as far as ship skills they will just have more options. It will easily be 3 years before you are wondering what to train. Not what to train first but what to train next as in you can't think of any skills that you need and have to stretch to find something. That 1 - 3 year time frame is when I think most guys branch out and cross train. TL;DR Don't stress out on your skill plan you'll use it all anyway.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 306	Posted - 2015.01.29 19:21:18 - [6] - Quote Marsan wrote: Sorry folks both the Hyperion and the Rohk suck as missioning ships. Don't use Rails/Blasters for mission running. They are subpar in dps, and can't switch damage types. Being able to switch damage types to the weak spot of a given mission is extremely important. If you use rails and lasers you are restricting yourself to a very limit set of areas you can rat and mission. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/NPC_Damage_Types What you should do is either go missiles starting with a and going to a Drake then a Tengu or Raven. Or stay with rails, but skill up GÇÄGallente and drones with an eye towards sentry drones. All of the above said the Hyperion and the Rohk are fine in Incursions as the Sasha in them omni-tank like the sleepers. Missiles are not well liked as they take time to reach target, which is a major issue in large fleets. If incursions are your end goal I'd look at either going Gallente and projectiles or Minmatar, rails, and drones. With an eye to end up in a Maelstrom, Tempest Fleet Issue, or Megathron Navy Issue. Just keep in mind Incursions are a long way away, and you'll be doing L4 and rat for a long time before you can join an Incursion fleet. I mostly kill Sansha rats in a Domi with Curator IIs and used to use rails. I recently switched to beams which I did not do for the longest time since due to the higher fitting requirement I had to go with the smallest of the large beams and on paper it was a dps drop and increased load on my capacitor. So when I did go from the higher DPS kinetic / therm based rails to the lower dps EM / based lazors I noticed about a 3 million isk increase in my bounty ticks. So if you are shooting at the same rats all the time and they have a high kinetic resists I would agree with you. As you have already pointed out when running level 4 mission you don't always get the same rats. However you do know which rats you will mostly get. So when I used to run missions in Caldari space most of my missions were against either Guristas or Serpentis both of which Hybrids are ideal weapons to use. So if you were flying a lazor based platform in Caldari space that would suck but flying a railgun ship in caldari space is probably ideal. If we look at projectiles while they do have ammo that deals primarily kinetic damage it's longer range lower dps so essentially you only have the 3 main damage types: therm with phased plasma, explosive with fusion and EM with the EMP rounds. So if you are in minmatar space and shooting at angels all day long the projectiles ships are best however projectile dps usually lags behind lazors and hybrids so anywhere that you'd be doing EM I found lazors to typically be better and both lazors and rails have therm for a secondary so the phased plasma is not a clear winner on those NPCs. When we talk about missiles they typically lag behind turrets in dps and with the wasted volleys unless you are hyper vigilant on switching targets before they die you waste a lot of potential dps and the drake has a kinetic damage bonus without which it's damage is **** poor. So essentially the drake is pretty much kinetic damage only unless you don't have Caldari battlecruiser up very high then the drake just sucks period. I've heard the tengu is an awesome level 4 mission boat but I'd have to imagine all the T3 cruisers would be great for that. The Raven is a good level 4 boat (kind of hard to fit a decent tank last I flew one before the tiericide), the CNR and the Golem are awesome level 4 boats but so are most faction battleships and Marauders. So I would say that if the OP is going to be missioning in Caldari space he'd likely do well to stick with a Caldari ship. Galentte with their hybrids and drones will do fine as well. He already said he was going to focus on the dominix for now which is probably the most versatile BS. The only problem you have with the Domi is the huge explosive hole that it has when you armor tank it. Any way that you look at it I don't think that you can claim that there is any racial ship line nor any weapon system that is clearly better than any of the others at running missions in general. It seems mostly dependent on the space you are flying in and in null sec even more so. P.S. As far as the "you can't stop the Rokh" videos I like the one where the Rokh jumps into the belt and starts minning at the end but since minning BSs aren't a thing anymore I don't think new players would get the joke but iirc the Rokh used to be the best minning BS in game which is kind of relevant here because the joke back then was that it wasn't good for much else. From the discussion on this topic here it seems the only thing that has changed is that no one mines in BSs since the tiericide.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2015.01.30 21:02:34 - [7] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Solonius Rex wrote: Stuff - relying on a 3 minute gimmick as your main tactic means you're wasting time because the chances of MJD being ready at the exact moment that you need it is fairly low. So the tactic in itself is slow and wasteful, especially because not relying on it means you will probably get to gates and mission items quicker. The tactic also forces a lot of range ammo use, which lowers dps and thus wastes time (hence my "lol range and damage" remark) - whether or not the Nmega is out of reach price wise, for now, is not the point. The POINT is "why bother with a caldari turret ship if it's a dead end as they're no upgraded versions of it and you'll want to switch to Gallente anyway due to Nmega and Kronos". This is not difficult to understand logic - the ranges and numbers you quote seem to suggest that you don't fit your ships correctly There is no reason to use a Rokh for lvl 4 other than "I want to use one because cool" or "I want to sit at massive ranges from everything (because I'm scared of getting in closer) and pewpew stuff with Lead ammo doing super low dps" MJD is a very effective tool for mission boats. It's not the ideal tool for every situation or every play style but it can be very helpful in a lot of play styles. With the optimal bonus and the eventual ability to use T2 ammo I have a hard time accepting the argument that sniping in general is a bad tactic for a level 4 mission boat. When NPCs are burning strait at you bringing their transversal to nearly zero you get good solid hits for good damage. If you manage your spawns properly you can make very effective use of using most of the range to one shot frigs and cruisers that are coming strait at you and hitting the BSs when they are at a range where you do more damage. Also with the lower need for tank at range you can fit more damage and tracking mods. None of the gunnery nor support skills needed for flying a Rokh would go to waste really only the Caldari BS skills and if he only trains that to 3 or 4 that is just not that much time and it's only a waste if he never again fly a Caldari BS or any pirate faction that uses Caldari BS at any point for any other reason. I mean the Nightmare and Rattlesnake each on their own is enough of a reason to train Caldari BS. I believe the OP already stated he was probably going to work towards a Domi for now and I'm not arguing that the Rokh would make a great level 4 ship. All that I am saying is that in WoW you can go to a website and find out what the best toon for a given role is or the best spec for you class or the best gear for your toon or read up or watch videos on the strats for various bosses. This is Eve. There is not one way to do anything. The only real way to know anything is through experience and means doing or trial and error or better worded trial and refinement. So that being said if the OP wants to use a Rokh in level 4 missions then in the process he would learn a lot about gunnery, a lot about sniping and when he did try a different ship he would then know: how, why and if it was better and be a better more experienced player than if he just came on here and was told that the domi was best and flew it and never flew anything else.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2015.01.30 21:18:59 - [8] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: We did missions before MJD, even low SP newbies. Using MJD as an extra option can make good sense, using it as a crutch resulting in wasting lots of time running away makes no sense, unless you WANT it to make sense. But if that were the case the OP wouldn't ask for help/opinions. This is a video game. It's whole point is to waste time. Well waste time and have fun. If you really hate PvE so much that you are trying to trim off any extra second of time doing it then why not just work an hour or two of overtime at work or get a second part time job and then buy a PLEX? I mean if PvE is a job for you then might as well just work IRL and use money to buy isk and then have money left over. As long as the OP is having fun then he's doing it right. If he learns how to better play the game in the process all the better.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 307	Posted - 2015.01.30 21:24:41 - [9] - Quote Solonius Rex wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: For someone who doesn't even understand basic missile mechanics, you sure keep telling others about how they "lost". And when i was corrected, i retracted my claim and admitted i was wrong. Big surprise, no one is perfect, people can be mistaken, people can be wrong. Like you. Only difference between you and me, is i was actually honest enough to admit i was wrong and retract my claim. So, are you gonna admit you didnt read/forgot about how i said i didnt claim the Rokh was "better" than the mega/hyper?(Or the dozen other things i demonstrated you were wrong about) Or are you going to keep failing to argue how the Rokh is such a bad ship for no good reason? Rex take it easy on the guy. Maybe his girlfriend left him for a level 4 mission running Rokh pilot. You need to learn a little couth and be respectful of people's sensitivities.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 309	Posted - 2015.01.31 03:31:28 - [10] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: ergherhdfgh wrote: MJD is a very effective tool for mission boats........ - never disputed that - The ROKH MJD's away and starts shooting the targets from far away using low dps ammo (but with low transversal as well), in the mean time a "normal" AB Mega slowboats to the next gate while doing more dps versus bigger targets due to higher base damage (8.75 turrets) and using antimatter instead of range ammo with enough tracking (hull bonus and TC), while ALSO using his drones. In total it just does more dps to the targets. Would the gate be too far away the Mega uses its own MJD past the gate, turns around and works his way back to it. It's just more efficient, doing more dps wasting less time So using MJD as a tactic to traverse long range or to get out of big trouble makes really good sense, but in a "MJD first, ask questions later" it just isn't. Especially so with MJD being on a timer First with an MJD and a AB you are eating 2 slots for prop mods which I would say is less than ideal. Second if you draw an imaginary line perpendicular to the line that goes from gate to gate in a mission pocket at a point roughly half way then jump to a point on that who's hypotenuse would be about 100km then you can jump out kill everything and then jump to the next gate. Makes for very fast travel. Additionally with T2 ammo your dps would not be as low as you make it seem. Not to mention that if the mega is going to be close enough to use antimatter it will need to fit a good tank as it is taking the brunt of the dps where the sniping Rokh is taking almost none. not to mention the fact that with 2 tracking computers the Rokh can get anti matter out to 70 + 49 or 71 + 51 with faction. Gregor Parud wrote: - if the OP states already knowing about the "upgrade options" (which I mentioned in my first posts to just sum up all the pros and cons) the question is "knowing about the Nmega and Kronos, is there a reason to train up caldari BS if you're going to switch to Gallente turret BS anyway?" And the answer to that is "factually, no. The Rokh isn't any better at all than a normal Mega so you might as well stick to Gallente and keep it simple and focussed towards Nmega/Kronos" First thing OP said was "I was looking at the level 4 mission ships as well as into Incursion ships and I was hoping someone could help me." Caldari BS gets him access to the Nightmare which is an awesome incursion ship and the Rattlesanke which is an awesome level 4 mission ship. Not sure where you think 6 days of caldari BS is going to ruin his life? Gregor Parud wrote: - completely agree with that, but the OP is asking for help with his choices and while people venting their personal preference is fine and all it ultimately doesn't help the OP, unless he states he has a similar preference. With that being absent the only honest, unbiased and neutral replies can only be "this does more dps, that will be slower" and vice versa. - OP never stated he WANTED to use the Rokh, he stated "hmm, Rokh seems underused. Why is that? Can it still be good?". So it's a question asking for performance differences, and thus my answers are... based on performance. Not on a personal tactics preference. Here's what the OP said: Typhoid Mary wrote: tl;dr: I am hoping someone can convince me that the Rokh is not just a white elephant for PvE the "tl;dr" means this is what he is really looking to get answered when you cut to the chase. Many of us have shown him how the Rokh is not just a white elephant. There are no DPS meters in this game the only way you can say things like "more dps" is when you are talking paper dps. In this game to compare apples to apples we use things like bounty ticks or mission completion times but even given that I did not get the impression from him looking for it to be more than "just a white elephant" that he was looking to min / max. The min / maxing will come later when he gets into incursions at which point in time Galentte and Caldari BS help to open access for him to the: Vindi, Nightmare and Machariel which are some of the best most in demand incursion ships around.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 309	Posted - 2015.01.31 03:57:20 - [11] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Uhm. Can't apply DPS when you are death... A ship that survives and applies 1 DPS, will still outclasa a 1000 DPS ship that dies in a second. And, you do know that some people run missions for fun. Hell, last time I ran L4 missions, I used my Blarpy. Was it efficient? HELL NO. Was it easy? No, but that was intended. If I want easy mode, I would have picked a missile ship. Was it fun? Hell yeah, not only did I completed the mission eventually. It was a nice challange. Did I make much money? Nope, but I did achieve a very high fun/hour income doing it. Would I do if for ISK / advice new player to do it for ISK income? Nope Would I do it again for fun / advice new players to "think outside the box" and have fun doing something slightly challanging? Yeah. Long ago before the tiericide I read a blog from a guy who was trying to solo every level 4 in a rifter. At the time of my reading it he had successfully done a little over half of them. Sometimes loosing 50 or more rifters trying to get one mission done and taking several days. That sounded like a lot of fun to me. Also I can recall once looking at a corp that ran level 5's in low sec in all SB fleets. Would 5 SBs finish a level 5 as fast as 5 Marauders? Probably not but Gregor what do you think will happen when someone warping through a low sec system sees 5 marauders on dscan? If you don't know I'm sure J'Poll can tell you.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 309	Posted - 2015.01.31 04:00:18 - [12] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: So the whole special snowflake logic and rage is based on "perhaps the OP doesn't like income" and "ships that do dps can't survive because having to tank means you're going to die". Still waiting for a decent Megathron fit for missions that doesn't assume super SP. So I am guessing that your strategy here is to keep saying more and more ridiculous stuff until we get tired of correcting you and then you can claim victory?
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 311	Posted - 2015.01.31 04:55:13 - [13] - Quote BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Keep in mind that Logistics are probably the fastest way into incursions. While this may technically be true you can't fly a logi in an incursion fleet without really high skills and there is no inbetween point and some of those skills don't cross over to anything else. you can get into incusrions with meta 4 mods and switch to faction and not miss a best as well as run missions with the same skill plan in the mean time if you go the BS route. For a new player to drop everything that he is doing to train: shield tranz, cap tranz, armor tranz, logi, cruiser 5, rep drones, link skills and fitting skills for tech II high slot mods is a bit much to ask. That is an alt thing or a year down the road thing.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 316	Posted - 2015.01.31 09:45:54 - [14] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Bingo. You know I was joking earlier about that strategy of yours but I'm starting to think that is what you are actually doing. Either that or you are trolling. Either way you win, I give. I can't keep correcting your strawman arguments and Orwelian logic. Your tenacity has proven to be greater than logic, truth or honesty.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 316	Posted - 2015.01.31 17:55:23 - [15] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that. before the tiericide I ran level 4s in a drake for a long long time before I could fly a BS. We had the learning skills back in those days so 6 months into this game I still could barely do anything but learn skills. I think that you need to learn to quit while you're behind. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 316	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:13:24 - [16] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: J'Poll wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that. If they would ask if a Drake can do Level 4's...answer is: Yes, slowly. Would you tell them it's a good ship for lvl 4? If it's where they are at skills wise yes I would say that they can and should and for them at this point it's a good ship for them to run level 4's in. You keep going back to this min / max thing and wanting to claim because you can find another ship that will do more dps on paper that some how everyone must stop flying Rokhs. You need to stop with this. This game is very complex. Players can have many goals and be at different places with thier skills. This is not WoW and you need to stop treating it like it is. You are misleading a lot of new players on this forum to think that this is like WoW where they just need to find the "best ship" and then bling it out with " Best in Slot" modules and then win Eve. That is just so not the case so please stop misleading them. It has been pointed out here several times the various circumstances and situations where the Rokh could be an excellent choice for a specific player given his / her skill points, goals and playstyle. Please stop trying to convince everyone that you know eve better than everyone else and that somehow your subjective opinion is provable fact when is just is not. Go back and reread this thread. You'll not see anyone suggesting that the Rokh is better than a Marauder for running level 4's. What you do see is several people point out how a newer player with low skill points might find the Rokh to be a good and quick path into level 4s and incursions. Oh and towards the end you'll see yourself linking a fit with a cap booster on it and claiming that it is cap stable.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 316	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:29:42 - [17] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: You would have been better off chaining lvl 3 than gnawing on lvl 4s in a Drake, also back then HML and the Drake itself were a lot better. So yeah, facts and all that. I'd agree that you could probably make more isk running level 3s in the drake but that's not what you said. You said "better off". Better is a word of comparison used to indicate one's opinion and here you use it as if it were a factual statement when there is no way that you could possibly know what is better for someone else. You could claim that for you it's better. You could claim that they could make more isk running level 3s but you can't say it's better for them. I could give examples of times when some one would want to run level 4's in a drake but it's pointless because you can't seem to think in anything but black and white. As far as your "facts and all that" comment the reason that I mentioned before the tiericide is to keep it factual and honest so people would know my comment was not given the current game mechanics. So yes facts and all that. Gregor Parud wrote: I'm not "behind" at all, as if discussions are to be won, we simply disagree on reasons to fly or recommend stuff. If you haven't noticed it really is clown Rex who does the sperging, I just react to it. Rex has put forth the best, most honest, most coherent, most informative info on this thread. The fact that you are now resorting to character assassinations shows that deep down inside somewhere you even realize that you've lost this argument. And blaming someone else for your reactions? what are you 3 years old?
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 316	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:41:54 - [18] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: So you use your drones... from MJD ranges. Nice. Care to link a fit? OP said she did not want to train drone at this point. Have you read any of this?
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 317	Posted - 2015.01.31 18:49:00 - [19] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: While true we're discussing fits as such. Mr. Parud I congratulate you. You have successfully trolled me. I honestly thought this was an actual debate. You've had me fooled for 7 pages. My hat's off to you sir, well done.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 319	Posted - 2015.02.01 04:56:11 - [20] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: p.s. you still haven't shown me where I stated the Rokh ought to beat a marauder. You had made the point that since you could find a ship that did more dps than the Rokh that no one should ever fly the Rokh under any circumstances. I was simply pointing out that by that logic no one should ever fly anything but a Marauder for level 4's to show how asinine your point was.

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