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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.01.31 21:45:03 -
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J'Poll wrote:And don't need to resort to ad hominem replies.
I call em as I see em, make spergy mouth breathing replies and guess what, I'll expect you to be/have become a spergy mouth breather. Like you do so often in threads. |

Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.01.31 22:23:53 -
[152] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote: So what you're meaning to say is that we shouldn't add your drone dps to the total, duly noted.
Since i added drone DPS to both the hyperion and rokh, no.
Quote: In case of the hype it'll use its drones vs frigates while the rails take care of the bigger targets, so IS added, and in cases when you don't have/want to move and there's long range targets you have the option of launching the wardens.
So, your Rokh fit is not what I would have done but we'll use yours for the comparison.
yours does 481 dps while not making use of drones most of the time, mine does 541 on turrets alone, which it will apply just fine due to two tracking comps. On top of that it WILL use its drones more often, but even without that the dps increase is about 12% (which is massive given how people will commit murder for 5% implants). Even more so because the lower your dps becomes the closer you get to a BS NPC's tank, making it take WAY longer. So 12% increase right away, and on top of that possibly WAY more due to lights/sentries.
Im not even sure why you would use all level 5 skills to compare this. Were talking about this in terms of low-skilled characters. No low skilled new player is going to max out battleship to 5. 3, maybe 4 max. At level 4, the damage difference on rails alone is only 22 dps.
This seems to be more evidence of how you are discussing this from an experienced, high skill level player, as opposed to what weve been discussing, which is a low skilled, inexperienced player.
Quote: And that all assumes you're using antimatter the whole time, which you're not.
52km optimal at level 3 Caldari BS, 58 at level 4. Yeah, youre gonna be using antimatter the whole time on ships that actually count.
Again, i shall repeat this the 4th time to you. The only time you would use high range low damage ammo is when you are killing the frigates from 80km away.
Quote: On top of that there's the possibly that you waste time due to MJD cycle or not being able to angle your MJDs to get to the next mission target. The Hype in this case can choose, he can AB to the gate if it's close enough (Hype will travel 25-60km in the time it takes MJD to cycle) OR it can use its own MJD if the situation favours it.
And then theres the possibility that you run out of light drones, having to MJD out, and then align and dock to station, wasting far more time and far more isk than having to MJD back to your original position, or close tot he gate, and slowboating. Whats your point? We can both create scenarios where we waste a massive amount of time.
The only difference between yours and mine, is that mine puts the least risk, doesnt cost 150 million isk more, and has a lower chance of wasting time, because the chances that your MJD wont get you in decent range to the gate, is far lower than the chances that your drones are getting hammered because you waited till the half a dozen frigs circled your ship before releasing drones with poor drone skills.
Quote: And when the mission favours it you switch to blasters and deal a ton more dps, what's the Rokh going to do in that case?
Oh right, i forgot, rokhs cant use blasters. Rokhs cant use active sheild tanks or ancillary sheild boosters. Wait, no, they can. Well thats a relief, i thought i was in trouble there for a sec.
BTW, i cant think of any mission that would be done with blasters that i couldnt run in good time with a railgun. Only situation i could think of is if they spawned a bunch of battleships right next to you, and im not aware of any mission that does that. |

Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.01.31 22:50:10 -
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You keep saying how you lose drones all the time, which is just not the case. |

Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.01.31 23:11:20 -
[154] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:You keep saying how you lose drones all the time, which is just not the case.
Half a dozen frigates, webbing and killing drones.
Drone recall lag/delay around 2 seconds.
Hob 2's 60 sheild 100 armor 300 hull with poor skills. Thats it.
Each frig deals atleast 20 dps(Lower end of the DPS meter).
60 DPS on a drone(lets say only half go on a single drone, cause youre lucky). 1 second and sheild is gone. another 3 seconds armor gone. By the time you react and recall drones, its already down to armor, if youre lucky and react quickly enough.
Rince and repeat for the other 4 drones left on grid. |

Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.01.31 23:19:10 -
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That or just wait till they red box you and keep an eye on them so the second they yellow box, meaning they're switching, you'll have enough time to pull them in. It's not difficult.
However I will concede an important point, one that you kinda missed :P, that the Rokh's dps isn't affected by BS skill lvl |

Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.01.31 23:49:34 -
[156] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:That or just wait till they red box you and keep an eye on them so the second they yellow box, meaning they're switching, you'll have enough time to pull them in. It's not difficult.
Sure, so you just keep recalling all drones every time the frigate changes to yellowboxing, then releasing them when they switch. And how much damage are you gonna do to the frigs that way? Id say nearly 0.
Quote: However I will concede an important point, one that you kinda missed :P, that the Rokh's dps isn't affected by BS skill lvl
I didnt miss it. You did, when you used an All level 5 skill set as a reference for how much damage a hyperion does vs a rokh. |

Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.01.31 23:53:26 -
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Don't exaggerate. And no, if you had you'd have said so :) |

Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.02.01 00:07:52 -
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Gregor Parud wrote:Don't exaggerate. And no, if you had you'd have said so :) Exaggerate... what? Are you out of arguments that you have to rely on vague random words that make no sense, hoping that atleast one of them might confound me enough to say "Sorry, youre right, i lost"?
And yes, i did say so. You really need to learn to read, man. This is worrying me. One day youre going to ram into a car and injure yourself because you thought it said "Speed limit 120 km/h" instead of "Speed limit 20 km/h". |

Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.01 00:24:01 -
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That. |

Solonius Rex
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Posted - 2015.02.01 00:34:09 -
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Youre recalling ALL your drones every time you get yellowboxed by a frig. Every time. And youre still talking about min/max. Lol.
But i love how you keep winding down and only respond to 1 or 2 points, as if you know that youve lost on all the other points but dont want to admit you lost. |

Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.01 01:01:53 -
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No, because you're simply exaggerating and regurgitating the same points over and over. I can just do the "read back this post" thing but it doesn't lead anywhere.
And there you do the exaggerating thing again: if it's just 1 or 2 yellow boxing you kill them, if it's a whole bunch THEN you pull them back. it sounds as if you never used this pretty basic tactic, otherwise you wouldn't make dumb remarks about it.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2015.02.01 04:56:11 -
[162] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote: p.s. you still haven't shown me where I stated the Rokh ought to beat a marauder.
You had made the point that since you could find a ship that did more dps than the Rokh that no one should ever fly the Rokh under any circumstances. I was simply pointing out that by that logic no one should ever fly anything but a Marauder for level 4's to show how asinine your point was.
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.01 08:05:14 -
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ergherhdfgh wrote:Gregor Parud wrote: p.s. you still haven't shown me where I stated the Rokh ought to beat a marauder.
You had made the point that since you could find a ship that did more dps than the Rokh that no one should ever fly the Rokh under any circumstances. I was simply pointing out that by that logic no one should ever fly anything but a Marauder for level 4's to show how asinine your point was.
No. I made the point that since the OP was skilling Gallente anyway there's no reason to sidegrade to Caldari as it has, in the long run, nothing to offer for hybrid users compared to Gallente. And that he might as well NOT waste time getting caldari BS to 4 and stick to his initial choice being Gallente.
Would the OP have said "I fly Caldari turret ships for :reasons:" then the answer would have been "well, if you enjoy that go for it" but that wasn't the case: OP has been skilling Gallente and thus there is "no point" in going for the Rokh. That doesn't mean the Rokh is "useless", it means that a Rokh doesn't add anything for someone who's focus already is, and again will be, Gallente.
Big difference.
Hence in my first post summing up all the pros and cons (even the ones the OP himself mentioned, on purpose) and then coming to the "all things considered you might as well stick to Gallente". |

J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
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Posted - 2015.02.01 08:55:07 -
[164] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:No, because you're simply exaggerating and regurgitating the same points over and over.
Sounds oddly familiar, doesn't it?
It's the exact same thing you did from the start of the thread.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
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J'Poll
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Posted - 2015.02.01 08:57:09 -
[165] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Gregor Parud wrote: p.s. you still haven't shown me where I stated the Rokh ought to beat a marauder.
You had made the point that since you could find a ship that did more dps than the Rokh that no one should ever fly the Rokh under any circumstances. I was simply pointing out that by that logic no one should ever fly anything but a Marauder for level 4's to show how asinine your point was. No. I made the point that since the OP was skilling Gallente anyway there's no reason to sidegrade to Caldari as it has, in the long run, nothing to offer for hybrid users compared to Gallente.
YOUR OPINION, not a fact (as you claim it to be).
Maybe the OP wants to try the Rokh. Maybe the OP wants to crosstrain anyway.
You voiced your opinion and claimed it as an actual fact.
ANd...no point training Caldari BS to 4.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*cough* Pirate ships, NM
OP ALSO said he wanted incursions eventually, guess what they love to take one...
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
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Gregor Parud
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Posted - 2015.02.01 09:09:05 -
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Show me a pirate ship that's Hybrids based requiring Caldari BS. |

ISD Decoy
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Posted - 2015.02.01 16:56:26 -
[167] - Quote
I attempted to clean this thread, but realized the OP's questions have been answered and this thread has dived head first into a troll-fest.
Next time, please keep it on topic, respectful, and show our newer pilots that we can have meaningful discussions without getting personal.
Thread locked.
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