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No more carriers in Lv 4 Missions?

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Science Ant	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:32:00 - [1] Riiiiiight... so i put all this training into a carrier to solo mission now be told they can no longer access the gates? Anyone else 'slightly enraged' at this?!? (& yes i am a carebear mission wh**re/ whatever u wanna call me to those flamers.. not every1 plays eve for pvp) Serious replies only plz
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:34:00 - [2] Missions are already easy enough in, say, a raven. Taking a carrier in is overkill to the point of stupidity. Originally by: ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy... ...and ijust reached it ahaha... this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer [limegreen]I a
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:49:00 - [3] yea, rigth, try to do one of the Amar LS mission on a bs :)
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:47:00 - [4] im disapointed at it but i didnt do missions in mine so no great loss to me , i thought they stopped carriers going in deadspace ages ago or i might have tried a few just for a laugh ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 18:06:00 - [5] Last mission of the amar ls has 2 stages with 40 galente and minmatar ceptors and cruisers that insta webb and ws you, plus 15 elite bs that do more than avg damage, last stage even has some added sentry guns an missile towers, theres no way a bs can take that much damage, when you actually have to turn on a second repairer on a carrier. Many people complain on how easy it is for people on a carrier to make money. EASY ? After all the isk and time invested just to fly a carrier it only seems fair that you can make money with it. Or how are we supose to buy a Mothership ?
Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:43:00 - [6] Edited by: Macmuelli on 27/09/2006 20:44:36 Another Step of CCP making this game more "teambased"... a realy Kick for all thoose ppls who had invest a lot of time flying a carrier or dread in missions to earn isks easier... loosing a carrier to pirates in a deadspace mission who had scan u is hard... feeling wasting the time in skilling into it is harder.... ( as a solo player..) cause u have no alternative if u are not interest in Pvp and have no corp mates around to help u in a lev 4 kill mission ...( some are non tankable in a bs and solo them.... ) Stop: u have the chance to run lev 4 courier missions..... but shipping a " cow" some "small seeled cargos", " refugeees" ,"Sience graduates", "Pistols", "small Arms" or at least " exotic Dancers " ( if u cannot see them Dancing) is boring... ....using it in future is sitting on a pos and delegate the drones to this ppls who making a lev 4 then to give him more dmg.... using gang mods to sopport them... ( personaly i think it will be also nerfed in future....( this mods working in a complete solar system with au`s in range.... ) dreads are now 100 % in his personal " Role"...... motherships ... Titans in missions are to expensive and worthfull in using it.... i personal hope CCP create some missions for ppls who had invest skilltime into carriers / dreads or all thoose rich ppls having ms/ titan ?. The last 100+ days i had invest to max this skills out( carrier skill + fighters).. ... at least another " toy" will getting " Dusty" in my " shiphangar" i personal think "flying a carrier in Missions is no garanty to earn isks" cause to much are destroeyd by scanning pirates... ( a lot of ppls are specialised in it) anyway .. a fact we had to accept best regard mac <- *looks into his shiphangar to find a new way
Taco Perez	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:47:00 - [7] Originally by: goldarkC Last mission of the amar ls has 2 stages with 40 galente and minmatar ceptors and cruisers that insta webb and ws you, plus 15 elite bs that do more than avg damage, last stage even has some added sentry guns an missile towers, theres no way a bs can take that much damage, when you actually have to turn on a second repairer on a carrier. Many people complain on how easy it is for people on a carrier to make money. EASY ? After all the isk and time invested just to fly a carrier it only seems fair that you can make money with it. Or how are we supose to buy a Mothership ? Its very similar doing the minmatar version of those cosmos missions. The last mission popped my faction tanked domi in about 7 seconds the first time I tried it. I didn't even have enough time to begin aligning - the ENTIRE SPAWN aggroes instantly. For reference, when we've brought in the dread as a tank, the combat log for _JUST_THIS_MISSION_ flying the nag is 6-8MB. Its an insane amount of damage. It is so much damage that it crashed the combat log analyser when I tried plugging the log in to it. So, uh, now what? I'm hard pressed to believe a heavy tank + logistics cruiser would rep enough hp to keep the tank alive against that onslaught. Hell, just the lag coming out of warp could prevent the logistics cruiser from locking the tank and getting some damage repped before the tank pops, at which time the logistics will pop too.
Asgaurd Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:41:00 - [8] I think stopping carriers in Lev 4 mission is wrong in so many ways, next they will be stopping you use a cruiser in a lev1, or a bc in a lev2, etc. CCP have made a mistake in stopping people using whatever ship they have to do what ever level mission they want, there is still risks in doing lev 4 mission, pirates, gank squads, ect, carriers are a big investment, and take a very long time to train and save for, so it is just fair that your investment can make some sort of return, I do my lev 4 mission in my raven, and unless you tank specific for each part, or use faction mods(very very expensive) you can lose your ship. I think ccp will find a lot of people will not be buying carriers so much, as they are just for one use now (PVP) which is fine but what individual who earns there isk, can afford to fly carriers in pvp on a regular basis, 10 mins pvp, 4 months mining to replace the mods and drones, this sucks, and i think it will keep more and more people in empire, because the harder things are to replace, the less people will buy them in the first place. those who say lev 4 are easy try doing 3 different missions without fitting specific tanking and try it then. I am losing my joy of this game with all these nerfs. Life is Short, Space is Big, So the Moral of the Story is: Go as Fast as you Bloody Can ;)
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:51:00 - [9] Originally by: goldarkC Last mission of the amar ls .. no way a bs can take that much damage .. a carrier to make money .. EASY ? IMHO it is too easy for a carrier (which can solo it without any problems). The rewards (500-2000M) might even exceed the ship value in one run; sounds more feasible as group reward. And it is not that impossible; a basilisk and rather pimped Raven can do it. With less elite mods will just need more supports. And being biased; I did net multiple billions from that lowsec with carrier, and was looking to get more. But it was far too easy source :( Don't think CCP has ever advertised or indicated carrier would be a solo ship; can't realy blame them if you feel you wasted training time. -Lasse
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:52:00 - [10] Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones.

Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Macmuelli on 27/09/2006 21:54:47 Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. so everyone has to invest now into another account to play this part of the game ? + invest in more skilltime before it works good ? .....
Generatorn Amarr The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:03:00 - [12] that you cant do all lvl 4 missions in a battleship is bull**** you people clearly have no idea what you are talking about
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Macmuelli so everyone has to invest now into another account to play this part of the game Are you implying that the game may not have any group-oriented missions? If you can do lv4 / lowsec missions in solo BS, good for you. If not, do a bit easier missions, or get friends? What actually went wrong here was that capital ships were allowed to enter complexes/deadspaces in the first place. That should never had happened, and is rather painful to fix. So to summarise this thread: CCP, please use pre-nerfs more heavily, so you don't have to post-nerf things. -Lasse
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:08:00 - [14] My heart breaks for the 10 carebears who used carriers (?!?!?) to solo L4 missions. Make a friend (or two!) and split the loots ya greedy bastards. _____________________
Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:18:00 - [15] with a good fitted ship and knowing how the mission works u can solo them... with gang support it is easy... that ccp make it possible for carriers to enter mission deadspaces let ppls invest into it to earn fast isks etc... set this "back" lets ppls feel getting kicked by them saying " invest into an alt skilling it" is a joke ....
testamonial	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:36:00 - [16] I mission in low sec and this makes me sad. Now I have to worry about the pirates hunting for me in my bs instead of the carriers.
Clone runner	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. there not balanced to have command ships in them either
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:55:00 - [18] Edited by: goldarkC on 27/09/2006 23:01:03 Edited by: goldarkC on 27/09/2006 22:59:55 Originally by: Generatorn that you cant do all lvl 4 missions in a battleship is bull**** you people clearly have no idea what you are talking about Totally agree, but i wasnt talking about regular lvl 4 missions wich i usually do on a Sac without problems, i was taking about Cosmos faction War missions wich are actually given by a lvl 2 agent and you go vs combined Minmatar and Galente or Amar and Caldari elite fleets. Belive me those cant be done with a regular bs. And i dont belive theres time enought for a feew support ships to help. By the time they enter and try to help the bs will be dead, and seconds later they will die too. I think the smart aproach for those missions should have beed to add a dread or something like that, instead or taking the carriers out.
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.28 01:52:00 - [19] The fact that you could rake in ****loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it.
Mhostly Bait	Posted - 2006.09.28 02:05:00 - [20] Edited by: Mhostly Bait on 28/09/2006 02:07:09 I agree. To take care of this riskless isk, they also need to: -Remove asteriods from empire space (to fix the macro miners good) -Make all t2 bpo sold by npcs (Damnable research *****s!) -Fix the gist boosters so that they aren't stupidly powerfull compared to all other officer boosters/reps (mission runners still make isk, fix this!) -Move all non-tutorial agents to 0.0 space (Eve is a pvp game noobs, adapt or die.) Man that would make eve perfect!

shal song	Posted - 2006.09.28 02:31:00 - [21] Deadspace acceleration gates no longer permit the entry of carriers, freighters, dreadnoughts, motherships and titans. Shur ya what's next... CCP will always give us toys then take them away. next lv1 deadspace gates no longer accept crusers btcrusers etc. and lv3's no longer take bs
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Bill Shankly The fact that you could rake in ****loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it. Then they should ban the people that sell TCs, they get lots of riskless isk, they should not alow mining barges in empire space too, specially not those elite ones, and so on ...to get isk when you dont have the money to spend in Time Codes you need to work to get it, nothing is easy here in eve. And im not saying that those missions are risk free, i have known of people loosing their carriers there, besides why does that bother you? if you work hard enought to get about 2.5 bill wich is more or less what you need for carrier, skills, mods, figthers and insurance and have the patience to train all relevant skills for 60/90 days one day you may get one carrier too, and if it cost you that much, you will want to get something out of it.
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:02:00 - [23] if you trained for carriers just to solo missions then i pity you,and you should've seen this coming. carriers in missions? seems like way beyond overkill.
Cocyte Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:11:00 - [24] I'm sure mission scanning pirates will be very glad to get more tasty faction fitted BS instead of the carriers... The loots will be far more lucrative for them All your booze are belong to me.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. Needed some digging but found it. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=157329&page=3 Originally by: Zrakor There are a few misconceptions here. First of all, the level 4 missions aren't intended for a group. At first we planned having them group oriented (during the earlier stages of exodus) but we quickly realized that this would be a mistake, as it was too much of a jump from level 3 missions and the neccessary features couldn't make it in. Of course, this is all relative to the player. Some players need a group to complete level 4 missions, others don't. But until features are in place to make grouping in missions practical (such as the sharing of reward and standing) we won't be 'forcing' anyone to group in missions. The reward being too high in level 4 missions is debatable, but something we are taking a good look at. The bounties on npcs used in missions aren't any higher on average than the ones used in complexes for example, and the loot drops are worse due to the lack of 'bosses' with the loot that entails. There are also module drops in 0.0 which you cannot acquire through missions in empire space. However the high quality agents being located in high secure space is an issue which we may deal with later. There is currently a multiplier in place which makes the rewards in low sec space higher than high sec space, so as long as you can find a fairly high quality agent in 0.0 space, you will be getting quite a bit higher rewards on average than your empire agent runner counterparts. We discussed having higher level agents only in non-empire space long ago, and came to the conclusion that this would not be good for the game. We do not want to force people to go into the pvp areas. This does not mean we will not reconsider this decision sometime down the line, but right now there are no plans of moving the high level agents down into pvp space. Grouping, however, is a vital part of any mmorg and something that we will be working on improving in the future. Those who keep say that level 4 missions is intended for groups, you are wrong. However, since this post was made by Zrakor, missions been nerfed in rewards, loot drops are worse. However the missions increased in danger since this to, more or less forces people into team work and grouping for something that wasnt intended in the first place. Less rewards for higher risk and then have to share them with no propper system of doing so? Bad. Yes working for agents in low sec and 0.0 gives greater rewards, but also bring a much higher risk. You just dont have to worry about getting blow up in a mission, but you risk fall vicitm by other players too. PVE VS PVP setups fails miserabley most of the time. Skilled scanners can locate you while you do missions quite easy too. CCP introduce new toys to the game with capital ships. Actually with a recent post of Kieron in this thread; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=400970&page=2 Originally by: Kieron I do not believe the original design intention for Carriers, Motherships and Titans included the ability to enter complexes, but rather for them to be the flagship of PvP fleet battles. Nerf? Maybe. A return to the original design intention? Certainly. So if someone field a dozen carriers in a fleet battle all is flagships? Its like if Admiral Nelson had 20 HMS Victory's at the battle of Trafalgar. For many capital ships was a way into low sec, congratulations CCP you nerfed them back to empire, way to go. Think CCP got dedicated nerfbats for mission runners. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Cocyte I'm sure mission scanning pirates will be very glad to get more tasty faction fitted BS instead of the carriers... The loots will be far more lucrative for them Oh really? most mission runners wouldn't use such fitted ships in low sec. If a player doesnt feel "safe enough" he stays away. Maybe a Carrier lulled people into a false sense of security so they took the steps to work more in low sec. Heck you even got pirates running around in Capital ships in low sec, but a mission runner cant use the same tool for their line of work. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
kthnxbye	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:36:00 - [27] no more carriers in missions!! aww, BOOHOO!.. my heart goes out to those crippled by this. it makes me wonder tho, how on earth did you do lvl 4 missions before carriers?... or was spamming level 3 missions enough of an earner to afford and fully fit/insure a carrier.. if so.. nerf level 3 missions too.. riskless isk 4tl.. it ruins eve
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:39:00 - [28] Originally by: kthnxbye no more carriers in missions!! aww, BOOHOO!.. my heart goes out to those crippled by this. it makes me wonder tho, how on earth did you do lvl 4 missions before carriers?... or was spamming level 3 missions enough of an earner to afford and fully fit/insure a carrier.. if so.. nerf level 3 missions too.. riskless isk 4tl.. it ruins eve sigh, return of the troll alts.... If you want to combat risk free isk, why not take up a crusade vs GTC sales? There is a difference in doing level 4's in high sec vs do them in low sec which is more dangerous. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:27:00 - [29] I soloed every mission given by minmatar agents in a shield tanked artillery tempest (or armour tanked autocannon variant for some cases like elite amarr navy battleships). You can run level 4s afk in a carrier to be honest. They were never meant to access dead space anyway. If you need help, how hard is it to find a mission running corp?
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Asgaurd I think stopping carriers in Lev 4 mission is wrong in so many ways, next they will be stopping you use a cruiser in a lev1, or a bc in a lev2, etc. CCP have made a mistake in stopping people using whatever ship they have to do what ever level mission they want, there is still risks in doing lev 4 mission, pirates, gank squads, ect, carriers are a big investment, and take a very long time to train and save for, so it is just fair that your investment can make some sort of return, I do my lev 4 mission in my raven, and unless you tank specific for each part, or use faction mods(very very expensive) you can lose your ship. I think ccp will find a lot of people will not be buying carriers so much, as they are just for one use now (PVP) which is fine but what individual who earns there isk, can afford to fly carriers in pvp on a regular basis, 10 mins pvp, 4 months mining to replace the mods and drones, this sucks, and i think it will keep more and more people in empire, because the harder things are to replace, the less people will buy them in the first place. those who say lev 4 are easy try doing 3 different missions without fitting specific tanking and try it then. I am losing my joy of this game with all these nerfs. 1. There is nothing wrong with specific tanking. 2. There is a chance to lose your raven on a mission? Something has to be wrong with game mechanics then 3. Carriers in PvP are not ships you buy yourself. They are supplied and supported by the corp/alliance. 4. Level 4 missions already give so much money that in a lot of cases it makes no sense to take risks in low sec or 0.0. 5. While there are missions in EVE, it is not a PvE focused game.



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