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No more carriers in Lv 4 Missions?

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Science Ant	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:32:00 - [1] Riiiiiight... so i put all this training into a carrier to solo mission now be told they can no longer access the gates? Anyone else 'slightly enraged' at this?!? (& yes i am a carebear mission wh**re/ whatever u wanna call me to those flamers.. not every1 plays eve for pvp) Serious replies only plz
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:34:00 - [2] Missions are already easy enough in, say, a raven. Taking a carrier in is overkill to the point of stupidity. Originally by: ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy... ...and ijust reached it ahaha... this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer [limegreen]I a
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:49:00 - [3] yea, rigth, try to do one of the Amar LS mission on a bs :)
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.27 17:47:00 - [4] im disapointed at it but i didnt do missions in mine so no great loss to me , i thought they stopped carriers going in deadspace ages ago or i might have tried a few just for a laugh ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 18:06:00 - [5] Last mission of the amar ls has 2 stages with 40 galente and minmatar ceptors and cruisers that insta webb and ws you, plus 15 elite bs that do more than avg damage, last stage even has some added sentry guns an missile towers, theres no way a bs can take that much damage, when you actually have to turn on a second repairer on a carrier. Many people complain on how easy it is for people on a carrier to make money. EASY ? After all the isk and time invested just to fly a carrier it only seems fair that you can make money with it. Or how are we supose to buy a Mothership ?
Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:43:00 - [6] Edited by: Macmuelli on 27/09/2006 20:44:36 Another Step of CCP making this game more "teambased"... a realy Kick for all thoose ppls who had invest a lot of time flying a carrier or dread in missions to earn isks easier... loosing a carrier to pirates in a deadspace mission who had scan u is hard... feeling wasting the time in skilling into it is harder.... ( as a solo player..) cause u have no alternative if u are not interest in Pvp and have no corp mates around to help u in a lev 4 kill mission ...( some are non tankable in a bs and solo them.... ) Stop: u have the chance to run lev 4 courier missions..... but shipping a " cow" some "small seeled cargos", " refugeees" ,"Sience graduates", "Pistols", "small Arms" or at least " exotic Dancers " ( if u cannot see them Dancing) is boring... ....using it in future is sitting on a pos and delegate the drones to this ppls who making a lev 4 then to give him more dmg.... using gang mods to sopport them... ( personaly i think it will be also nerfed in future....( this mods working in a complete solar system with au`s in range.... ) dreads are now 100 % in his personal " Role"...... motherships ... Titans in missions are to expensive and worthfull in using it.... i personal hope CCP create some missions for ppls who had invest skilltime into carriers / dreads or all thoose rich ppls having ms/ titan ?. The last 100+ days i had invest to max this skills out( carrier skill + fighters).. ... at least another " toy" will getting " Dusty" in my " shiphangar" i personal think "flying a carrier in Missions is no garanty to earn isks" cause to much are destroeyd by scanning pirates... ( a lot of ppls are specialised in it) anyway .. a fact we had to accept best regard mac <- *looks into his shiphangar to find a new way
Taco Perez	Posted - 2006.09.27 20:47:00 - [7] Originally by: goldarkC Last mission of the amar ls has 2 stages with 40 galente and minmatar ceptors and cruisers that insta webb and ws you, plus 15 elite bs that do more than avg damage, last stage even has some added sentry guns an missile towers, theres no way a bs can take that much damage, when you actually have to turn on a second repairer on a carrier. Many people complain on how easy it is for people on a carrier to make money. EASY ? After all the isk and time invested just to fly a carrier it only seems fair that you can make money with it. Or how are we supose to buy a Mothership ? Its very similar doing the minmatar version of those cosmos missions. The last mission popped my faction tanked domi in about 7 seconds the first time I tried it. I didn't even have enough time to begin aligning - the ENTIRE SPAWN aggroes instantly. For reference, when we've brought in the dread as a tank, the combat log for _JUST_THIS_MISSION_ flying the nag is 6-8MB. Its an insane amount of damage. It is so much damage that it crashed the combat log analyser when I tried plugging the log in to it. So, uh, now what? I'm hard pressed to believe a heavy tank + logistics cruiser would rep enough hp to keep the tank alive against that onslaught. Hell, just the lag coming out of warp could prevent the logistics cruiser from locking the tank and getting some damage repped before the tank pops, at which time the logistics will pop too.
Asgaurd Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:41:00 - [8] I think stopping carriers in Lev 4 mission is wrong in so many ways, next they will be stopping you use a cruiser in a lev1, or a bc in a lev2, etc. CCP have made a mistake in stopping people using whatever ship they have to do what ever level mission they want, there is still risks in doing lev 4 mission, pirates, gank squads, ect, carriers are a big investment, and take a very long time to train and save for, so it is just fair that your investment can make some sort of return, I do my lev 4 mission in my raven, and unless you tank specific for each part, or use faction mods(very very expensive) you can lose your ship. I think ccp will find a lot of people will not be buying carriers so much, as they are just for one use now (PVP) which is fine but what individual who earns there isk, can afford to fly carriers in pvp on a regular basis, 10 mins pvp, 4 months mining to replace the mods and drones, this sucks, and i think it will keep more and more people in empire, because the harder things are to replace, the less people will buy them in the first place. those who say lev 4 are easy try doing 3 different missions without fitting specific tanking and try it then. I am losing my joy of this game with all these nerfs. Life is Short, Space is Big, So the Moral of the Story is: Go as Fast as you Bloody Can ;)
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:51:00 - [9] Originally by: goldarkC Last mission of the amar ls .. no way a bs can take that much damage .. a carrier to make money .. EASY ? IMHO it is too easy for a carrier (which can solo it without any problems). The rewards (500-2000M) might even exceed the ship value in one run; sounds more feasible as group reward. And it is not that impossible; a basilisk and rather pimped Raven can do it. With less elite mods will just need more supports. And being biased; I did net multiple billions from that lowsec with carrier, and was looking to get more. But it was far too easy source :( Don't think CCP has ever advertised or indicated carrier would be a solo ship; can't realy blame them if you feel you wasted training time. -Lasse
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:52:00 - [10] Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones.

Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 21:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Macmuelli on 27/09/2006 21:54:47 Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. so everyone has to invest now into another account to play this part of the game ? + invest in more skilltime before it works good ? .....
Generatorn Amarr The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:03:00 - [12] that you cant do all lvl 4 missions in a battleship is bull**** you people clearly have no idea what you are talking about
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Macmuelli so everyone has to invest now into another account to play this part of the game Are you implying that the game may not have any group-oriented missions? If you can do lv4 / lowsec missions in solo BS, good for you. If not, do a bit easier missions, or get friends? What actually went wrong here was that capital ships were allowed to enter complexes/deadspaces in the first place. That should never had happened, and is rather painful to fix. So to summarise this thread: CCP, please use pre-nerfs more heavily, so you don't have to post-nerf things. -Lasse
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:08:00 - [14] My heart breaks for the 10 carebears who used carriers (?!?!?) to solo L4 missions. Make a friend (or two!) and split the loots ya greedy bastards. _____________________
Macmuelli	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:18:00 - [15] with a good fitted ship and knowing how the mission works u can solo them... with gang support it is easy... that ccp make it possible for carriers to enter mission deadspaces let ppls invest into it to earn fast isks etc... set this "back" lets ppls feel getting kicked by them saying " invest into an alt skilling it" is a joke ....
testamonial	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:36:00 - [16] I mission in low sec and this makes me sad. Now I have to worry about the pirates hunting for me in my bs instead of the carriers.
Clone runner	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. there not balanced to have command ships in them either
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.27 22:55:00 - [18] Edited by: goldarkC on 27/09/2006 23:01:03 Edited by: goldarkC on 27/09/2006 22:59:55 Originally by: Generatorn that you cant do all lvl 4 missions in a battleship is bull**** you people clearly have no idea what you are talking about Totally agree, but i wasnt talking about regular lvl 4 missions wich i usually do on a Sac without problems, i was taking about Cosmos faction War missions wich are actually given by a lvl 2 agent and you go vs combined Minmatar and Galente or Amar and Caldari elite fleets. Belive me those cant be done with a regular bs. And i dont belive theres time enought for a feew support ships to help. By the time they enter and try to help the bs will be dead, and seconds later they will die too. I think the smart aproach for those missions should have beed to add a dread or something like that, instead or taking the carriers out.
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.28 01:52:00 - [19] The fact that you could rake in ****loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it.
Mhostly Bait	Posted - 2006.09.28 02:05:00 - [20] Edited by: Mhostly Bait on 28/09/2006 02:07:09 I agree. To take care of this riskless isk, they also need to: -Remove asteriods from empire space (to fix the macro miners good) -Make all t2 bpo sold by npcs (Damnable research *****s!) -Fix the gist boosters so that they aren't stupidly powerfull compared to all other officer boosters/reps (mission runners still make isk, fix this!) -Move all non-tutorial agents to 0.0 space (Eve is a pvp game noobs, adapt or die.) Man that would make eve perfect!

shal song	Posted - 2006.09.28 02:31:00 - [21] Deadspace acceleration gates no longer permit the entry of carriers, freighters, dreadnoughts, motherships and titans. Shur ya what's next... CCP will always give us toys then take them away. next lv1 deadspace gates no longer accept crusers btcrusers etc. and lv3's no longer take bs
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Bill Shankly The fact that you could rake in ****loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it. Then they should ban the people that sell TCs, they get lots of riskless isk, they should not alow mining barges in empire space too, specially not those elite ones, and so on ...to get isk when you dont have the money to spend in Time Codes you need to work to get it, nothing is easy here in eve. And im not saying that those missions are risk free, i have known of people loosing their carriers there, besides why does that bother you? if you work hard enought to get about 2.5 bill wich is more or less what you need for carrier, skills, mods, figthers and insurance and have the patience to train all relevant skills for 60/90 days one day you may get one carrier too, and if it cost you that much, you will want to get something out of it.
tarin adur	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:02:00 - [23] if you trained for carriers just to solo missions then i pity you,and you should've seen this coming. carriers in missions? seems like way beyond overkill.
Cocyte Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:11:00 - [24] I'm sure mission scanning pirates will be very glad to get more tasty faction fitted BS instead of the carriers... The loots will be far more lucrative for them All your booze are belong to me.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Tunajuice Missions are not balanced to have capitol ships taken in them. The game is based on risk vs reward, if you have no risk, why should you get a decent reward? If you want to solo it, train an alt logistics ship for a lot less then a carrier.. and you should at least be closer to soloing the hard ones. Needed some digging but found it. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=157329&page=3 Originally by: Zrakor There are a few misconceptions here. First of all, the level 4 missions aren't intended for a group. At first we planned having them group oriented (during the earlier stages of exodus) but we quickly realized that this would be a mistake, as it was too much of a jump from level 3 missions and the neccessary features couldn't make it in. Of course, this is all relative to the player. Some players need a group to complete level 4 missions, others don't. But until features are in place to make grouping in missions practical (such as the sharing of reward and standing) we won't be 'forcing' anyone to group in missions. The reward being too high in level 4 missions is debatable, but something we are taking a good look at. The bounties on npcs used in missions aren't any higher on average than the ones used in complexes for example, and the loot drops are worse due to the lack of 'bosses' with the loot that entails. There are also module drops in 0.0 which you cannot acquire through missions in empire space. However the high quality agents being located in high secure space is an issue which we may deal with later. There is currently a multiplier in place which makes the rewards in low sec space higher than high sec space, so as long as you can find a fairly high quality agent in 0.0 space, you will be getting quite a bit higher rewards on average than your empire agent runner counterparts. We discussed having higher level agents only in non-empire space long ago, and came to the conclusion that this would not be good for the game. We do not want to force people to go into the pvp areas. This does not mean we will not reconsider this decision sometime down the line, but right now there are no plans of moving the high level agents down into pvp space. Grouping, however, is a vital part of any mmorg and something that we will be working on improving in the future. Those who keep say that level 4 missions is intended for groups, you are wrong. However, since this post was made by Zrakor, missions been nerfed in rewards, loot drops are worse. However the missions increased in danger since this to, more or less forces people into team work and grouping for something that wasnt intended in the first place. Less rewards for higher risk and then have to share them with no propper system of doing so? Bad. Yes working for agents in low sec and 0.0 gives greater rewards, but also bring a much higher risk. You just dont have to worry about getting blow up in a mission, but you risk fall vicitm by other players too. PVE VS PVP setups fails miserabley most of the time. Skilled scanners can locate you while you do missions quite easy too. CCP introduce new toys to the game with capital ships. Actually with a recent post of Kieron in this thread; http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=400970&page=2 Originally by: Kieron I do not believe the original design intention for Carriers, Motherships and Titans included the ability to enter complexes, but rather for them to be the flagship of PvP fleet battles. Nerf? Maybe. A return to the original design intention? Certainly. So if someone field a dozen carriers in a fleet battle all is flagships? Its like if Admiral Nelson had 20 HMS Victory's at the battle of Trafalgar. For many capital ships was a way into low sec, congratulations CCP you nerfed them back to empire, way to go. Think CCP got dedicated nerfbats for mission runners. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Cocyte I'm sure mission scanning pirates will be very glad to get more tasty faction fitted BS instead of the carriers... The loots will be far more lucrative for them Oh really? most mission runners wouldn't use such fitted ships in low sec. If a player doesnt feel "safe enough" he stays away. Maybe a Carrier lulled people into a false sense of security so they took the steps to work more in low sec. Heck you even got pirates running around in Capital ships in low sec, but a mission runner cant use the same tool for their line of work. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
kthnxbye	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:36:00 - [27] no more carriers in missions!! aww, BOOHOO!.. my heart goes out to those crippled by this. it makes me wonder tho, how on earth did you do lvl 4 missions before carriers?... or was spamming level 3 missions enough of an earner to afford and fully fit/insure a carrier.. if so.. nerf level 3 missions too.. riskless isk 4tl.. it ruins eve
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:39:00 - [28] Originally by: kthnxbye no more carriers in missions!! aww, BOOHOO!.. my heart goes out to those crippled by this. it makes me wonder tho, how on earth did you do lvl 4 missions before carriers?... or was spamming level 3 missions enough of an earner to afford and fully fit/insure a carrier.. if so.. nerf level 3 missions too.. riskless isk 4tl.. it ruins eve sigh, return of the troll alts.... If you want to combat risk free isk, why not take up a crusade vs GTC sales? There is a difference in doing level 4's in high sec vs do them in low sec which is more dangerous. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:27:00 - [29] I soloed every mission given by minmatar agents in a shield tanked artillery tempest (or armour tanked autocannon variant for some cases like elite amarr navy battleships). You can run level 4s afk in a carrier to be honest. They were never meant to access dead space anyway. If you need help, how hard is it to find a mission running corp?
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Asgaurd I think stopping carriers in Lev 4 mission is wrong in so many ways, next they will be stopping you use a cruiser in a lev1, or a bc in a lev2, etc. CCP have made a mistake in stopping people using whatever ship they have to do what ever level mission they want, there is still risks in doing lev 4 mission, pirates, gank squads, ect, carriers are a big investment, and take a very long time to train and save for, so it is just fair that your investment can make some sort of return, I do my lev 4 mission in my raven, and unless you tank specific for each part, or use faction mods(very very expensive) you can lose your ship. I think ccp will find a lot of people will not be buying carriers so much, as they are just for one use now (PVP) which is fine but what individual who earns there isk, can afford to fly carriers in pvp on a regular basis, 10 mins pvp, 4 months mining to replace the mods and drones, this sucks, and i think it will keep more and more people in empire, because the harder things are to replace, the less people will buy them in the first place. those who say lev 4 are easy try doing 3 different missions without fitting specific tanking and try it then. I am losing my joy of this game with all these nerfs. 1. There is nothing wrong with specific tanking. 2. There is a chance to lose your raven on a mission? Something has to be wrong with game mechanics then 3. Carriers in PvP are not ships you buy yourself. They are supplied and supported by the corp/alliance. 4. Level 4 missions already give so much money that in a lot of cases it makes no sense to take risks in low sec or 0.0. 5. While there are missions in EVE, it is not a PvE focused game.

Depko	Posted - 2006.09.28 10:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Mhostly Bait Edited by: Mhostly Bait on 28/09/2006 02:07:09 I agree. To take care of this riskless isk, they also need to: -Remove asteriods from empire space (to fix the macro miners good) -Make all t2 bpo sold by npcs (Damnable research *****s!) -Fix the gist boosters so that they aren't stupidly powerfull compared to all other officer boosters/reps (mission runners still make isk, fix this!) -Move all non-tutorial agents to 0.0 space (Eve is a pvp game noobs, adapt or die.) Man that would make eve perfect! You have forgotten to mention the benefit of having little lags in EVE after the changes you mentioned will be introduced. With at least 10x less people playing EVE low lag would be for sure.
Dou Intaki	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:20:00 - [32] Edited by: Dou Intaki on 28/09/2006 11:25:02 Edited by: Dou Intaki on 28/09/2006 11:24:28 As a mission runner of lvl4's in lowsec space and user of various capital ships for missions. Yeah am disappointed myself, i choose todo missions/build ships/BPc's to pay for other things i like doing in eve. And when i do something i like todo the correct way, so i orginally started with a thorax about 3yrs back.. upgraded the turrents, and my skills... over the years progressed to diff ship classes, then finally a capital ship. But buying a capital wasn't for the idea it might do missions faster than a CNR with 1.5Bs worth of equiptment, but fact at the time not many people had one and it was fun to fly such a large ship. With the patch news, means i got to hang up 9/10months of carrier training, the implants i bought especially and the carrier, and not forgetting the waste of 900M of skills i had to buy. I don't want to join an alliance i've been in many and never enjoyed it. So that i can use this PVP only machine. (PLUG anyone out there, needing highly exp cap pilot?) Instead go buy myself a CNR and boat load of officer equiptment, sit in high sec doing lvl4s risk free. And still receive the same amount of ISK, i was never into missions for JUST LP but the ENTIRE mission, so would be still similar ISK.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Science Ant Riiiiiight... so i put all this training into a carrier to solo mission now be told they can no longer access the gates? Anyone else 'slightly enraged' at this?!? (& yes i am a carebear mission wh**re/ whatever u wanna call me to those flamers.. not every1 plays eve for pvp) Serious replies only plz If you need a carrier to solo missions you suck. Sorry. There are no shortage of ways to solo missions without resorting to capital ships. Have you tried a tech-2 fitted battleship? Have you thought about a friend remote-shield/armour tanking you? Hve you thought about a 2nd account remote-shield/armour tanking you? If you do level 4 missions or complexes in a carrier or dread you are hitting the Easy Mode button. No risk, great rewards. Sorry but that breaks EVE. The best thing about this fix is all of the pathetic losers coming on the forums and basically admitting they suck
Taco Perez	Posted - 2006.09.28 11:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Tecam Hund 1. There is nothing wrong with specific tanking. 2. There is a chance to lose your raven on a mission? Something has to be wrong with game mechanics then 3. Carriers in PvP are not ships you buy yourself. They are supplied and supported by the corp/alliance. 4. Level 4 missions already give so much money that in a lot of cases it makes no sense to take risks in low sec or 0.0. 5. While there are missions in EVE, it is not a PvE focused game. 1) True 2) False - there are some cosmos missions (ask goldarkc, or I) that just lay out too much damage. 3) Again, false. Just like POS can be supported individually, capital ships can be as well 4) False, unless you really have a skewed sense of "..so much money.." Running level 4s solo in a domi will earn me some 10s of mil per hour in low sec space, including loot refines and sales, on average. Miners in low sec or 0.0 make LOTS more, and high sec mission runners can run crazier setups and earn a bit more by doing missions faster in high sec space, but its still 10s of mils per hour at best. 5) False. This game, in the words of the creators: "Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills. Others may elect to pursue a more dangerous path such as piracy, smuggling or bounty hunting." in other words, pve is a perfectly supported, viable and vital element of eve. It is what you as a pilot make of it. My only real problem with this restriction is that we were never told of the restriction and that using a capital ship in a cosmos mission or otherwise was an exploit or contrary to desired mechanics. When the fix was implemented we were given a day or so warning. Had I known this I wouldn't have trained 2 of my characters on 2 accounts in capital ships. I would have begun training up for the uber battlecruiser command ships and used those to tank the damage that I alone can't sustain in my mission running. This "fix" set me back 3 or 4 months with no warning, not to mention the billions of isk I spent to be able to purchase and fly the ships effectively. How did I get the billions of isk to buy the ships? It obviously wasn't shotgunning missions in a carrier :/
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.28 12:21:00 - [35] na dlast but not least, ccp has said right from the word go that carriers went ment for missions. so cry -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.28 13:51:00 - [36] Edited by: goldarkC on 28/09/2006 13:53:04 Edited by: goldarkC on 28/09/2006 13:52:21 Originally by: Tecam Hund 3. Carriers in PvP are not ships you buy yourself. They are supplied and supported by the corp/alliance. Lol, its Easy for people who get free ships to flame those who decide to work to get them. And Just to clarify about missions: If you have good skills Lvl 4 missions are almost risk free to do on a hac or a bs. Taco and I are talking about Faction War Missions wich are diferent than regular lvl 4 missions and are actually given by a lvl 2 agent. This missions cant be done on a bs, and i dont belive you will have time to use support ships to help the bs before it dies. A good tanking bs will only last about 10 seconds alive after he enters the gate, and 10 seconds is not enougth time for a couple of support ships to enter the gate after agro is on the bs, target the bs and start repairing it. Those support ships will die 5 seconds later. This missions are not cheap either. If you have the standings, you can only get 5 mission vouchers to do them 5 times. If you want to repeat you have 3 options: Steal mission vouchers from other players Buy mission vouchers from other players, and they are worth 100 mill Help other players to do the missions for a share IMO if CCP wants to promote their Faction Wars Project* they should be adding more content instead of pushing people away from it
Tecam Hund Minmatar The Buggers	Posted - 2006.09.28 14:04:00 - [37] Edited by: Tecam Hund on 28/09/2006 14:06:26 Hm... Its worse than I thought. I wouln't even bother. What you want is easy isk with no risk. I'll just leave you to your grief. And as far as making isk goes. Without alliance affiliation its a big gamble to make money in 0.0 through mining or ratting. For solo player missions provide a much more stable source of income. Its just nobody sees whats going on beyond their own nose. Edit about faction war missions: So you are saying that only because some missions are hard capital ships should be allowed into all dead space? sigh
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.28 14:19:00 - [38] Originally by: goldarkC Originally by: Bill Shankly The fact that you could rake in ****loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it. Then they should ban the people that sell TCs, they get lots of riskless isk, they should not alow mining barges in empire space too, specially not those elite ones, and so on ...to get isk when you dont have the money to spend in Time Codes you need to work to get it, nothing is easy here in eve. And im not saying that those missions are risk free, i have known of people loosing their carriers there, besides why does that bother you? if you work hard enought to get about 2.5 bill wich is more or less what you need for carrier, skills, mods, figthers and insurance and have the patience to train all relevant skills for 60/90 days one day you may get one carrier too, and if it cost you that much, you will want to get something out of it. 1, no GTC were always intended to be used by CCP, carriers were never meant to be allowed in, it has been documetned many times. 2,mining barges also wereintended. 3,someone that looses his carrier in a level 4shudnt be flying it. 4,yes i will want to do something with a carrier one day, PVP with it ! as it was meant to be.
Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.09.28 15:08:00 - [39] looks to me that many of you are missin a point here, those of you that says EVE is not focused on being a pve game Bull , EVE is focused on being a game that gives the player freedom to do what he/she feels like within some limits offcause. if a person who had used 3-4 months training for a surten ship and spend 1bil+ isk on it he/she should have the freedom to do with it as h/s likes. if i wanted to selfdetruct my carrier to teach it a leason for moving quick anough... hehehehe than by all the gods i do soo ! if i wants do missions with it i should be alowed to do sooo. although many ppl thinks soo I and everyone in the game does not play the game to optimice you'r game experience but my own,,, and my and others idea of what is fun/good experience is not nessesary the same as your's ITS A GAME PLAY AS YOU LIKE AND LEAVE OTHERS TO THEIR PART OF IT
Mesuno	Posted - 2006.09.28 15:21:00 - [40] My concern about this is that is a nerf penalising people who have trained and invested in these carriers, and the precedent it sets for mission running in general. My raven can solo all but a couple of the hardest L4 missions without being at the slightest risk from the mission rats. This is because I have invested in some faction gear and good skills (although not yet perfect!) for it. This sounds like a major problem for those who love to scream 'omg he is making isk with out any risk' but I do all my mission running in low sec. For me the risk running missions is PLAYER pirates either ganking me at a gate, scanning me down in a mission or messing with me crossing to empire for occassional shopping. Now think of the carrier - It can solo l4 missions with limited risk but by its very nature it is limited to low sec where it is at risk of being scanned down and busted by well equipped and well practiced pirates. The risk to the carrier is massively higher than the risk to my raven as with insurance a loss will cost me maybe 100m - carriers are more like 1bn isk to replace. With higher risk there should be higher reward, and for the carriers that reward is being able to do missions faster than someone in a raven worth 1/10th as much. Someone I know has being doing missions in a carrier and earns maybe twice as much as I do in bounties per hour but he faces way more than twice the risk. Oh, and he recently had a carrier busted by pirates who ripped him apart by spamming him with sensor dampners so he was totally unable to lock them. So my view is that risk/rewards is fairly balanced already as carriers are forced to expose themselves to nasty PvP pirates in low sec, where an empire BS runner need never have to.

Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.09.28 15:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Mesuno My concern about this is that is a nerf penalising people who have trained and invested in these carriers, and the precedent it sets for mission running in general. My raven can solo all but a couple of the hardest L4 missions without being at the slightest risk from the mission rats. This is because I have invested in some faction gear and good skills (although not yet perfect!) for it. This sounds like a major problem for those who love to scream 'omg he is making isk with out any risk' but I do all my mission running in low sec. For me the risk running missions is PLAYER pirates either ganking me at a gate, scanning me down in a mission or messing with me crossing to empire for occassional shopping. Now think of the carrier - It can solo l4 missions with limited risk but by its very nature it is limited to low sec where it is at risk of being scanned down and busted by well equipped and well practiced pirates. The risk to the carrier is massively higher than the risk to my raven as with insurance a loss will cost me maybe 100m - carriers are more like 1bn isk to replace. With higher risk there should be higher reward, and for the carriers that reward is being able to do missions faster than someone in a raven worth 1/10th as much. Someone I know has being doing missions in a carrier and earns maybe twice as much as I do in bounties per hour but he faces way more than twice the risk. Oh, and he recently had a carrier busted by pirates who ripped him apart by spamming him with sensor dampners so he was totally unable to lock them. So my view is that risk/rewards is fairly balanced already as carriers are forced to expose themselves to nasty PvP pirates in low sec, where an empire BS runner need never have to. agree
Mhostly Bait	Posted - 2006.09.28 15:37:00 - [42] Edited by: Mhostly Bait on 28/09/2006 15:39:13 Originally by: Mesuno My raven can solo all but a couple of the hardest L4 missions without being at the slightest risk from the mission rats. This is because I have invested in some faction gear and good skills (although not yet perfect!) for it. Yes exactly! We must nerf the raven too, more specificly the gist booster. A moros or thanatos with a capital rep gets about 320 rep/sec and 4 rep/cap. This is a godly tank, so of course capital ships had to be nerfed because it is riskless isk. A raven with a gist-x booster (well any gist is good, they all broken. Nobody uses pith boosters, please!), and a pair of good amps can reach 330 rep/sec at a rate of 7.2 rep/cap. That is without any crystal implants too. It can get far, far, stronger. This is a stronger tank than the Moros/Thanatos can pull off, and at a sustainable cap use rate. It costs less than a Moros or Thanatos+Fighters. Anybody flying a gist fited raven on missions is also guilty of exploiting the game by doing level 4 missions at no risk. You should all be banned, you horrible people. NERF GIST BOOSTERS TOO! The only acceptable way to make isk in eve is by selling GTC, by owning a t2 bpo (earned with the hard work and skill of the researcher, and not at all a random gift from on high), by piracy (YARR!), or by joining a respectable 0.0 alliance, such as Band of Brothers or Goonswarm (YARR again!). If they wont nerf Gist boosters, than you mission farmers who got screwed by this change should just shut up and spend another three months retraining to use missiles and fly a raven, like the smart mission runners. Quit yer *****in and be thankfull you haven't been banned yet for daring to make isk outside of mining or ratting in 0.0, you filthy exploiters. NERF GIST BOOSTERS!
Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.09.28 15:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Mhostly Bait Edited by: Mhostly Bait on 28/09/2006 15:39:13 Originally by: Mesuno My raven can solo all but a couple of the hardest L4 missions without being at the slightest risk from the mission rats. This is because I have invested in some faction gear and good skills (although not yet perfect!) for it. Yes exactly! We must nerf the raven too, more specificly the gist booster. A moros or thanatos with a capital rep gets about 320 rep/sec and 4 rep/cap. This is a godly tank, so of course capital ships had to be nerfed because it is riskless isk. A raven with a gist-x booster (well any gist is good, they all broken. Nobody uses pith boosters, please!), and a pair of good amps can reach 330 rep/sec at a rate of 7.2 rep/cap. That is without any crystal implants too. It can get far, far, stronger. This is a stronger tank than the Moros/Thanatos can pull off, and at a sustainable cap use rate. It costs less than a Moros or Thanatos+Fighters. Anybody flying a gist fited raven on missions is also guilty of exploiting the game by doing level 4 missions at no risk. You should all be banned, you horrible people. NERF GIST BOOSTERS TOO! The only acceptable way to make isk in eve is by selling GTC, by owning a t2 bpo (earned with the hard work and skill of the researcher, and not at all a random gift from on high), by piracy (YARR!), or by joining a respectable 0.0 alliance, such as Band of Brothers or Goonswarm (YARR again!). If they wont nerf Gist boosters, than you mission farmers who got screwed by this change should just shut up and spend another three months retraining to use missiles and fly a raven, like the smart mission runners. Quit yer *****in and be thankfull you haven't been banned yet for daring to make isk outside of mining or ratting in 0.0, you filthy exploiters. NERF GIST BOOSTERS! what are you smoking m8 hmmm was it a joke that flew over my head hmmm if soo the joke is on me if its not a joke
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.28 16:05:00 - [44] Edited by: goldarkC on 28/09/2006 16:11:33 I dont know why some of you complain about mission runners? I have been playing eve for over 3 years now. I started making isk ninja mining in 0.0 on an imicus, thats how i got my first cruiser, since that time when my old corp joined our first alliance, i have lived in 0.0 untill a feew months ago when our corp was disbanded and i started to do the imperial part of eve, that is running missions. So i know both sides, and i know for a fact that you can make lots a lots more isk ratting or mining in 0.0 And dont give me the crap that 0.0 is more dangerous than imperial low sec, because 0.0 is far more safe than low sec imperial. People doing missions in low sec imperial is more at risk than any 0.0 rat hunter or miner. I was acually expecting more content to be added for the faction wars project, more chalenging missions maybe with capital ships in it. So i find this very disapointing. I will probably go back to 0.0 to keep making insane ammounts of isk, but i regret that this happened because i liked the faction wars concept.
Thecle Vifargent Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:40:00 - [45] Edited by: Thecle Vifargent on 29/09/2006 07:40:58 When i started level 4 mission in a regulare raven i got my a$$ raped in few minutes and get blowed in shred. I thought : "god, this ship suck". Spent 4 billions in a pimped rattlesnake and missionned like hell When i was bored of missionning for 8 months and 20 billions in assets, i sold the rattle and the faction gear. Few after, i had a new raven (i usually fly frigates size) and tried level 4 mission again. I realized the raven didn't sucked at all in level 4 missions, but my skill does 8 month ago. So if you really cant do level 4 mission without a carrier, you have some serious questions to ask yourself about your skills and how you handle the game Still, if you really wish to use your carrier, you can hunt in 0.0 belt in an alliance and use it to tank the npc while your gangmates mine peacefully...
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:58:00 - [46] My main complaint is all the PvE people cannot now use a combat capital ship which is wrong. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.09.29 10:15:00 - [47] Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: goldarkC Originally by: Bill Shankly The fact that you could rake in ***loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it. Then they should ban the people that sell TCs, they get lots of riskless isk, they should not alow mining barges in empire space too, specially not those elite ones, and so on ...to get isk when you dont have the money to spend in Time Codes you need to work to get it, nothing is easy here in eve. 1, no GTC were always intended to be used by CCP, carriers were never meant to be allowed in, it has been documetned many times. 2,mining barges also wereintended. Since you freely admit that earning large sums of ISK without risk IS* intended by CCP, why are you so hostile to carriers in missions again? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.29 10:24:00 - [48] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Bill Shankly Originally by: goldarkC Originally by: Bill Shankly The fact that you could rake in ***loads of ISK with norisk whatsoever was wrong, Im glad they changed it. Then they should ban the people that sell TCs, they get lots of riskless isk, they should not alow mining barges in empire space too, specially not those elite ones, and so on ...to get isk when you dont have the money to spend in Time Codes you need to work to get it, nothing is easy here in eve. 1, no GTC were always intended to be used by CCP, carriers were never meant to be allowed in, it has been documetned many times. 2,mining barges also wereintended. Since you freely admit that earning large sums of ISK without risk IS* intended by CCP, why are you so hostile to carriers in missions again? because the people that are here moaning now, that they spent hours and billions on carriers, were told about 7 months ago that this was going to happen.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.29 10:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Bill Shankly because the people that are here moaning now, that they spent hours and billions on carriers, were told about 7 months ago that this was going to happen. Got a link?
Layla Ashley Amarr Children of Avalon	Posted - 2006.09.29 11:47:00 - [50] sorry, but i just can't understand all these ppl saying that carrier is a riskfree way to make isk in missions. Isn't it less risky to loos a faction (x-type) fitted bs in highsec do to lag then to loos a carrier in low sec do to pirats? (both cost about the same, both should be able to do lvl 4 missions easely, carrier probably needs more skill time [though you don't need to worry about gunnery/missil skills]) maybe somebody can enlighten me about what point i'm missing

killmc	Posted - 2006.09.29 13:47:00 - [51] so i spent month on end to train up for me carrier only to find now that it is useless for what i whated to do 1 they suck for pvp 2 for gate camps there ok 3 mish in low space was only thang there good for now you take that away there not supper ships it is no difent than useing a bc on lvl 2 mish or useing a bs on lvl 3 mish and to one that say grap buddy or 2 that not point of doing mish point is to make isk or get to use jump clones and yes i could go back to t2 fited bs to do mish but carrier like haveing a pre redmoon domi qith 15 drones that all so give us are rights back or ban all bc form lvl 2 mish and ban all bs from lvl 3 mish to lvl playing field
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:24:00 - [52] I have a side question that likely belongs elsewhere, but figured I'd poke it in here first. Why are players allowed to find and warp to people in mission deadspaces? Doesn't that completely violate the deadspace mechanic? i.e. - that a deadspace can only be accessed via the acceleration gate? And if that's the case, why couldn't you take an alt to the deadspace and gang-warp to it with the carrier, circumventing the acceleration gate altogether? --Wherever you go, there you are.
Taco Perez	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Simon Jax I have a side question that likely belongs elsewhere, but figured I'd poke it in here first. Why are players allowed to find and warp to people in mission deadspaces? Doesn't that completely violate the deadspace mechanic? i.e. - that a deadspace can only be accessed via the acceleration gate? And if that's the case, why couldn't you take an alt to the deadspace and gang-warp to it with the carrier, circumventing the acceleration gate altogether? When they warp to the scan probe hit they land at the acceleration gate. They can enter the gate just like the mission runner, unless there's a key necessary for the gate.
Nabraxis Ka	Posted - 2006.09.30 11:32:00 - [54] Mayb lvl 5 missions will be for capital ships, when they are released? But i agree with most, if uve trained for so long and spent so much money then u should be able to use it to make loads of isk.:)
stoats girl	Posted - 2006.09.30 12:45:00 - [55] Originally by: spurious signal If you need a carrier to solo missions you suck. Sorry. A pimped out Raven costs more or less the same as a carrier and it is a lot easier to get into. They run missions a lot more trivially. Originally by: spurious signal The best thing about this fix is all of the pathetic losers coming on the forums and basically admitting they suck Hopefully they nerf your weapon of choice soon, let me know what it is so I can whine loudly on the forums about it. Disclaimer: I didn't typically run missions in carriers, they weren't solo mission pwnmobiles - CNR is faster in almost every case. I just think it's funny when all the people bash stuff they probably haven't even tried. alt ftw.
Spix 'UK	Posted - 2006.09.30 13:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Pottsey My main complaint is all the PvE people cannot now use a combat capital ship which is wrong. I Agree , ur saying after all the time spent & isk a person has got over the years wont be allowed to do level 4 missions in low sec any more coz CCP does not like PVE players? .. maybe we dont want to join corps or fight in pvp.. yet we co op from time 2 time with friends we found over the years, Really CCP this is just another We hate the PVE player base & only pvp is allowed.. how long till you nerf PVE so much CCP that ur player base will Die.. people over the last year or so have had this option but now were not allowed it.. really were paying for the game what ever happened to keepin the players happy .. all ya doin is turnin this into a pure PVP game.
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.09.30 18:58:00 - [57] Edited by: goldarkC on 30/09/2006 19:01:18 I invite you to read my post here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=400967&page=2 It will be interesting to see how it goes
Simon Jax Gallente Freelancing Corp	Posted - 2006.10.01 00:01:00 - [58] Originally by: Taco Perez Originally by: Simon Jax I have a side question that likely belongs elsewhere, but figured I'd poke it in here first. Why are players allowed to find and warp to people in mission deadspaces? Doesn't that completely violate the deadspace mechanic? i.e. - that a deadspace can only be accessed via the acceleration gate? And if that's the case, why couldn't you take an alt to the deadspace and gang-warp to it with the carrier, circumventing the acceleration gate altogether? When they warp to the scan probe hit they land at the acceleration gate. They can enter the gate just like the mission runner, unless there's a key necessary for the gate. Ok ... that doesn't really make any sense either. Or doesn't seem to from a RP stanpoint. Or, more applicably, from a back-story mechanics standpoint. However, that does adequately explain why the Carrier prohibition is effective. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.01 14:58:00 - [59] Originally by: Bill Shankly because the people that are here moaning now, that they spent hours and billions on carriers, were told about 7 months ago that this was going to happen. Yeah, link it troll face. I'm curious, since this "fact" is becoming an urban legend. Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.01 15:00:00 - [60] Originally by: spurious signal The best thing about this fix is all of the pathetic losers coming on the forums and basically admitting they suck Originally by: spurious signal Firebyrd, repost this topic on Monday morning. You'll get a better discussion then, instead of the weekend retards spouting the usual mod-free rubbish. Irony?..... Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.

Spix 'UK	Posted - 2006.10.01 22:03:00 - [61] Edited by: Spix ''UK on 01/10/2006 22:04:58 still goes to the fact that CCP hates the PVE world.. & all they ever do is nerf nerf PVE players.. Really we dont care about PVP... so what people use Dreds / carriers to run missions to make more isk ? They already worked hard skill time / isk to buy the skills , ship , mods etc etc I dont really see a harm in It, just means now people have to co op more.. not like it was effecting the Game, most people ran there missions in co op / Faction BS's the odd few used dreds / carriers , & you have the other people do there PVP thing..
goldarkC	Posted - 2006.10.03 12:38:00 - [62] Ill get calibration 4 in 3 days, i guess i will start using my carrier to pick up and organize all the stuff i have all over the eve universe.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.10.03 18:57:00 - [63] Originally by: Spix 'UK CCP hates the PVE world .. nerf nerf PVE players So, if it so heavily nerfed, do you also indicate that PVE fellows earn less ISK per hour as say a year ago? If not, how this trend of nerfing appears? What in reality both PVP and PVE sub-sets get are like 'boost boost boost nerf boost boost etc'. -Lasse


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