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Sakura Nihil
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.09.28 23:21:00 -
[31]
You looking for a hell of a ransom target Verone? For some reason I can see either you or SNIGG out in 0.0 or lowsec snagging one of these things...
Capital ship + low-grade weapons systems + crap agility = juicy target .
Tharsis needs some ! |
Gordon Red
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.09.29 01:44:00 -
[32]
You only need a capital mining laser.
=> Dread/Carrier mining (Carrier would be the wise choise) ____________________________________________________________ You want WHAT??? => phew,phew,phew => boom! |
Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.29 05:37:00 -
[33]
Is it going to get a 200km decloaking module?
I'm not so sure we should be encouraging mining more than necessary. All the continued enthusiasm has just prompted CCP to include stuff like gas clouds, which amount to little more than pre-webbed npcs.
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DPDP
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Posted - 2006.09.29 08:55:00 -
[34]
I did have a thought about how a capital ship could be given a bonus to mine low ends. Have a Ore specifc module that improves containment so that more ore can be pulled form a rock then compaired to a standard mining laser. So sort of improved containment field tuned to the ore type.
Assuming that mining lasers are not 100% and a large amount of the ore is wasted it could increase the mining yeild by decreasing the waste so that you get more ore per rock.
If they were made Capital ship only and say give a 10% increase so that the rock last just as long but more ore is produced.
As a module it could be easily explained why only certain ores can have modules do to there stibility. So that there is a module for veld, another for scord and a third for plag for example. Give the capital mining ship several command module type slots (high with fitting bonus) were this can be placed.
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Bael'Zhaeron
Minmatar Crabbs
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Posted - 2006.09.29 12:32:00 -
[35]
Im sorry but im a miner at heart and got to say having one ship do all this you could really just scrap the rest. One ship mining and refining is truely a i-win button when it comes to mining.
Why not implement 2 Capital Mining ships one miner and one mobile refinery. Just like you have carrier and mothership
The miner uses capital strip miners with a Extreme duration like 10 or 15 minutes cycle which yields more but if you break the cycle you loose everything like a ice miner. Dont think it should be able to tank everything but atleast have some LARGE structure and/or Shield/Armour. Should be molded from a freigther really slow to warp and to turn around with enough cargo bay for one cycle. Fitting wise you should probably have two lowslots so that you can choose between mining upgrades, stabs or expanders. Should not have bonuses for command modules you would still need the use of command ships. Should also not be able to drop cans (except loot if popped) But you need regular haulers to empty the ship just like you access the cargobay on a carrier or POS refitting station.
The mobile refinery should have a giant carbo bay for storing ORE (not minerals) ei. 100k or more. Refinery bonuses should be just like a intense refining array when you have maxed out mobile refinery skill. And just like the mining ship this one aswell should not be able to drop jet cans u need to access it with regular haulers to empty the minerals. As for refining time it should have like a hours or something close but can refine ALL ore types ei. Crystaline,sharp or just regular crokite at the sametime. None of these ships should be able to cyno jump or if they can cyno jump then not far at all like 3 or 4 Lightyears. This aswell should not have any bonuses for command modules.
This is just a rough sketch , seeing all this in one ship is what i would call a "i-win button" and should not be for a single person to be able to do all by himself. Mining in 0.0 or lowsec should need coporation not one guy in a single roid-pwn-mobile.
As for not having command modules thoose should be for command ships and BC ONLY not for lazy ass miners that want gang bonuses but dont want to sacrifice ore yield. If you want gang bonuses use a command ship with a guy that has command skills thats what they are there for.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.29 12:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sarf The initial point is that the macro miners are flourishing because there is such a huge demand for low en minerals. he is proposing a ship that can be used to compete with them to the point that macoing is no longer needed.
Nuts, It's giving them another tool if it can mine itself.
//Maya |
phillip duncan
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.09.29 13:03:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Bael'Zhaeron
Why not implement 2 Capital Mining ships one miner and one mobile refinery. Just like you have carrier and mothership
The miner uses capital strip miners with a Extreme duration like 10 or 15 minutes cycle which yields more but if you break the cycle you loose everything like a ice miner. Dont think it should be able to tank everything but atleast have some LARGE structure and/or Shield/Armour. Should be molded from a freigther really slow to warp and to turn around with enough cargo bay for one cycle. Fitting wise you should probably have two lowslots so that you can choose between mining upgrades, stabs or expanders. .
I like the idea of a two options with a good mining ship or a refinery ship. I also like the idea of a cargo hatch to collect ore but this would stop ore thiefs unless it was open to everyone.
Would you keep the restiction that frieghters has with regard to POS access?
Another way is that it only one slot that can support the capital mining laser or a refinery array instead. This would allow them to be configured to suit the job and make them more usefull, also less work requred to impliment them. Running the refinery could also need fuel so that its easier if you plan to stay in a system for a few days to put up a POS to do the refining with better efficency.
Not to sure about the cargo size personally, but it depends if the devs plan on it hauling or havign haulers support it.
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Bael'Zhaeron
Minmatar Crabbs
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Posted - 2006.09.29 13:15:00 -
[38]
Well seeing that ore theifs selldom come to 0.0 or even lowsec for that matter the problem with stealing ore is quite redudant. Aswell as the ship cant come in to 0.5 and higher.
I like the idea with diffrent modules on one highslot. As for the cargo issue i was thinking more like 100k for ORE types not proccessed minerals AND a cargobay for the minerals like 10k or abit higher.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2006.09.29 13:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sarf The initial point is that the macro miners are flourishing because there is such a huge demand for low en minerals. he is proposing a ship that can be used to compete with them to the point that macoing is no longer needed.
Nuts, It's giving them another tool if it can mine itself.
Yes but if you had a 1bn isk ship that could mine and you where macro-ing with it. When you get banned for macro-ing.
Think back if your account and all account got banned, how long would it take you to get 1bn isk again to buy the big ship.
The macroers that are doing so because they can't buy the minerals and are bored sitting there will use it. the macroers that are selling isk are in it for the cash, and should get there asses banned.
In the first case the macroer would probably stop useing a macro program if he could spend less time mineing and more time playing. The isk farmer isn't going to stop, and yes if ues this ship they will get a great deal of minerals and the price will drop.. and then there won't be any isk in it.
So the isk farmer then has 2 choices, move to 0.0 where he can't use the uber mining ship, and can now be poded by players. or find another way to make isk to sell.
In either case it is win-win macroers stop, or move to low sec space. The price of trit, pyr,mex drop because the supply increases.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2006.09.29 13:52:00 -
[40]
I like the idea of two ships still.
One ship that is bulk harvester, meant for high security system. capable of mining a great deal of ore in a short time. and relying on NPC stations for refining ans support.
And one ship that is aimed at low sec mining, has lower yield on mining, but makes up for it on the larger hold, better defenses, and refining capability/ gang support.
It doesn't mean that both ships couldn't be used in the other situation, if you used the low sec ship in high sec space you would have a ship the mines slower, refines poorer than the npc station in the system.
Using the high sec ship in low sec space, well you have to be incredibly rich or stupid. Picture a carrier sized ship with the defenses of a T1 battle ship. It would not last long against a belt npc in 0.0 long at all, and probably could be one shotted by a decent PvP player.
If both ships cost around the 1bn mark then that is a lot of isk to lose so, so you would chose a ship based on the area you are mining. A low sec ship would be needed to survive in low sec space, In high sec space the high sec ship would be more efficient and more desirable compared to the risk.
I would also suggest making the max insurance level only 50% for both ships.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.09.29 13:57:00 -
[41]
0.0 mining is extraordinarily safe. A single battleship gathers aggro from the belt rats and turns on a tank that can withstand them indefinitely, then everyone else rolls in the Covetors, Hulks and Iteron Vs to clear out the ore. The "high sec" fragile version would be used almost universally in 0.0, and seldom lost. ASCN would be building a Titan a week.
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El'hith
Gallente The Phoenix Mercenarys
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Posted - 2006.09.29 14:13:00 -
[42]
I love this idea and have heard many many variations of it
Verones seems the best thought out thus far (<3 you :P )
BUT the problem i see is yes they SHOULDNT be allowed in >0.4 BUT they can still be built in >0.4 and just not moved out......
which WOULD be a problem as far as i can see.
Other than the problem of preventing them been in >0.4 its a great idea and something i would love to see in game! It really would be the perfect thing for low sec mining :)
Personally i want a ship that can deploy fighters empire side thou :P I can dream :c ~~~Check my bio in game for what me and my corp can do for you!~~~ |
Bael'Zhaeron
Minmatar Crabbs
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Posted - 2006.09.29 15:44:00 -
[43]
Im sorry but a Capital ship in highsec that's dumb they are capital ships and shouldnt be allowed anywhere near highsec if you ask me. As for Verone's suggestion i still think onw ship with capability to do both refining and mining at the same time is for me atleast pretty much unbalanced.
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Nicoli Voldkif
Caelli-Merced
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Posted - 2006.09.29 23:48:00 -
[44]
I wasthinking along the same lines my self and had a thought on the use in High-sec. Make it able to fly in highsec like a freighter but it may only "anchor" itself in low-sec and gain the benefits of refining. That way in highsec the best it can act as is a player flown secure jet can.
I wouldn't let it mount strip miners to keep it from become the solo mining machine, in fact I'd only give it 2-3 missle launcher slots to allow it to act as light rat defense.
I also had the idea after playing some homeworld to allow Mining barges to dock/attach them selfes to the ship and would gain a bonus to mining laser and targeting range. Again this would only be when the ship had anchored so again lowsec/0.0.
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Snake Charmer
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.30 17:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Snake Charmer on 30/09/2006 17:33:08
Originally by: Omber Zombie you could go the mothership/titan option and do this: * Ship has no internal refining ability, but can deposit directly to a pos refinery. * Cargo hold is roughly 1/2 a freighter. * Skill level bonii = 5% to maximum cargo hold + 5% reduction in anchor time, 5% bonus to resists (arm/shield depending on race) while anchored. * 5 high slots, 4 turret, 1 universal, ship can run a max of 3 gang mods * Introduce new gang mods which are ore specific i.e. (+x% to Veldspar harvesting) * The ability to run drones as defence or extra mining (no fighters)
That way the ship must be used in conjunction with a refining POS, is a decent miner in itself but not uber (4 stripminers if you want, but that would gimp your setup with grid/cpu tweaking), is a great gang mining tool (the new command mods) and while it does need to be defended, still has some defensive ability.
First and foremost, make it mine "ok" like a hulk, but make it GREAT for gangwork. We dont need it to mine faster, but more NEW options would be fantastic.
I really support this threat, if there's a capital mining ship, it should only be allowed in 0.4 or less systems to makesure it's not too abused, and that the people flying it will keep it defended. (otherwise those ebil pirates will do their job and blowup the macro'ers in lowsec)
I think the game has really been aimed at the PvP section, and I happen to have a character with excellent mining skills, and now what? I've maxed out hulks? Congrats you win eve? :\ I think the best solution would to make a capital mining ship with a healthy bay, a mining gangmod bonus (either just a regular gangmod, or a specific ore gangmod [maybe make ice mining a little less painful]), super limited defences, like a few drones, so it MUST be kept defended. And the ability to mine at the speed of a hulk or slightly faster, with a capital-size bay, say 100,000m3, and the ability to use gangmods.
I think the use of an onboard refinery is "ok" but it should be the job of the minny outposts to be refining :P, if there was an onboard refinery on the capship for mining, it would hopefully be really gimped and even with max skills, not be AS good as a outpost (60-75% yield compared to 94%+), refining should also take a certain amount of time aswell in these ships, rather than instantaneous.
If this thing's to exist, it cant completely ruin the mining dynamic of the game, it should compliment it, and focus on working in gangs, giving mining bonuses to all in gang with it (small or large bonuses), have a large bay (like 100K+ M3) OR have the ability to mount a "capital tractor beam" which would only work on these ships (much like a covert ops cloak to a covert), and this tractor beam would have a range of 60-80km, to bring full cans closer to the Capital Mining ship so there's large groupings of cans closer to the capship (to put in its bay, or just to make it easier for haulers to pick up the cans) OR allow freighters to access the "capital mining bay" on the capital mining ship, so freighters can have a new use, other than running from station-station. :)
Whew, I'm tired. I hope that made some sense, and I really say, as a person who's been playing since beta 6, this thread needs kudos where it's due.
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Snake Charmer
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.01 21:52:00 -
[46]
Bump! good ideas in here :)
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Pedo Fortis
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Posted - 2006.10.02 12:22:00 -
[47]
Having a combined mining and refining vessel sounds too much, and splitting them into two vessels sounds like better idea, we should probably be enabling group mining operations in low sec rather than solo uber mining ships.
So if we want a capital route from a Covetor / Hulk why not introduce mining versions of carrier fighters.
"Mighters" - Mining Fighters Same size as Fighters (5000m3) and have a 1500m3 cargo capacity, and much reduced strength and no attack capability. There would be various types that each mine a single type of ore, or ice.
The carrier pilot could direct the Mighters to a belt, they would warp to the belt and then mine their ore type until full and then warp back to the carrier, placing the ore in the cargo hold of the carrier.
If the Mighers are assigned to another ship then they would put the ore in that ships cargo hold (which might work well if they are an Industrial, but not allowed for freighters).
ORE Refining Barge
The ORE mothership, would have the drone bay removed and replaced with a refining array. The refining array would be 50% efficient for high sec ores, 40% for low sec ores and 30% for 0.0 ores.
The ORE mothership would have bonuses for storing barges and industrials inside its Ship maintenance array, barges only count 50% and industrials only count 33% of their volume.
Pedo
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.02 13:40:00 -
[48]
Very well thought idea, but there is one problem.. the on-board refinery makes refining outposts somewhat obsolete. Alliances have invested huge amounts of ISK in these outposts; if all refining can be done on the capital ships, the alliances will collect a lot less in refinery taxes.
Instead, let the on-board refinery produce some intermediate mineral akin to drone alloys. This intermediate is a lot more compact than ore itself, but must be passed through a proper refinery before it can be used in manufacturing.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2006.10.02 17:18:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dutarro
Instead, let the on-board refinery produce some intermediate mineral akin to drone alloys. This intermediate is a lot more compact than ore itself, but must be passed through a proper refinery before it can be used in manufacturing.
Great idea.
But let us not forget there is allot of care bears that live in Empire space. And a Capital mining ship should be like a freighter and accessible to people in empire space.
One of the problems right now that the Volume of tri and pyr for capital ships is HUGE and the only suppliers of vast quantity's are the macro miners. As we saw with the last ***** down on the the price of tri went from 1.8 - 2.5 this adds 70m to the cost of the freighter.
Now that the macroers are re-establishing them selves again the price of tri is coming down again.
If there was a super miner that worked in empire space then legit miners would be able to compete with the macroers and drive the price down to the point where the macroers give up.
What about a capital mining ship that is the size and cost of a carrier, and the defenses of a newbie frigate. that would be a high sec version.
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phillip duncan
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.10.02 18:25:00 -
[50]
That is why I suggested that it mine at the same rate as a large barge (maybe another thread), it is more a logics and gange support ship increasing the whole gang.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2006.10.02 19:12:00 -
[51]
that is my point also.
We need to make it so easy for a dedicated miner to mine rather than buy low level min that macroers can't make enough on there product to be worth the time. And if they want easy profit then they would have to move to low sec space.
Any ship that is built will be used by the macroers. All i want to do is make easier to mine the minerals for large ships that you don't need to buy the minerals at such a high price.
I remember when tri was .8 per unit, then there was hardly any macro miners out there.
Now a obelisk takes 102m tri to build even with hulks that is along time burning veld spare to get that much.
If solo I could do 25m tri in 3 hours after work I would mine rather than buying at the current prices. but as it is it is impossible for a solo player to mine enough isk for a freighter, unless it was your full time job.
so as it is i am forced to buy tri from people I am sure are macro miners, as they are the ones that fill my buy orders the soonest, and I see only a handful of names ever filling buy orders.
When I see a member of a 10 person corp, that reliable sells me 90m tri every week I am suspiciously.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2006.10.02 19:15:00 -
[52]
i gue the point of all that is
If I didn't have to deal with the macroers I wouldn't.
If I could mine the minerals my self I would.
I play solo allot and don't get much help from my corp in mining. But I build allot of freighters on my own.
So on one hand I don't like the idea of macroers cheating at the game. But i like lots of macroers because the min prices drop.
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Kayne Darklight
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Posted - 2006.10.02 19:19:00 -
[53]
Briefly off-topic
Originally by: Sarf
One of the problems right now that the Volume of tri and pyr for capital ships is HUGE and the only suppliers of vast quantity's are the macro miners. As we saw with the last ***** down on the the price of tri went from 1.8 - 2.5 this adds 70m to the cost of the freighter.
Now that the macroers are re-establishing them selves again the price of tri is coming down again.
If there was a super miner that worked in empire space then legit miners would be able to compete with the macroers and drive the price down to the point where the macroers give up.
Errmm, when I started EVE over a year ago, the prices of the low ends were: tritanium fairly stable at 3 ISK, pyerite at about 6-8 ISK, and mexallon often reaching 20 ISK, so how is forcing the prices to drop even further than their current levels a good thing?
What makes you so sure that the macros will " give up "?, and what happens to all the genuine players in the meantime? A trial player is going to fill their velator/frigate with almost worthless ores only a couple of times before they get bored and abandon the trial. Hell, even reasonably skilled miners are going to question the value of their time if they are only getting a handful of ISK per load.
Ok, back on topic,
If it`s going to be Capital sized, then it should follow Capital rules and be low sec only, having a ship that big with strip miners and a huge capacity is an AFKer`s and macro`s dream.
So, make it a Mining Command ship ( similar to the Kuun-Lan from Homeworld Cataclysm ), it jumps in, deploys the miners and haulers into the belts.
Ideally it would have space for several barges and at least one industrial, but that wouldn`t work too well, as it would be used as a mothership for staging military strikes, and restricting what ships it can carry screws up those who don`t use barges to mine.
Unless it has roughly comparable skill requirements to a mothership
Give it the same Primary and Tertiary skill reqs as a mothership carrier, but change the secondary skills for a mix of things like Engineering, Electronics, Refining, Industry, and so on. Command Ships currently needs Battlecruisers V, which would be a bit silly for an industrial ship, so make Mining Command Ships a new skill equivalent to Dreadnoughts
Since it`s Capital sized, give it an onboard refinery which has similar yield to a 35% Refining array, but is faster, ( because it`s bigger ); a decent sized drone bay; a respectable amount of armour or shield as it`s meant for low sec, although it`s not a military ship; and not much of a gang bonus from the ship itself, that should come from the pilot or the accompanying ships.
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Star'mist
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Posted - 2006.10.03 13:57:00 -
[54]
bump
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Nicoli Voldkif
Caelli-Merced
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Posted - 2006.10.03 16:09:00 -
[55]
Kayne I agree with you for the most part.
It should be allowed in all security of space with NO jump drive. Ir should have NO turret points - this should be a gang oriented ship Ability to either Refine Ore/Compress It or allow freighters to access it for remote mining ops Mod that gives Cargohold conus when "Anchored"
A good example are the resource controllers of Homeworld. Eases transfer of minerals for operations with some small offensive capabilities and Non mining abilities on its own. Perhaps even give it some logistics bonusis to help keep the mining ships alive in case of attack.
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