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How to get more people out in 0.0?

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Lazy8s	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:50:00 - [1] Ok, at the risk of getting flamed I am posting this to try and be constructive and serious. I am NOT complaining, I am trying to be serious. Anyways, here goes nothing: Tonight I went to 0.0 for the first time. I finally got a regional set of bookmarks and felt rather safe since I took a disposable ferox with 1 WCS on it remembering what I had been told time and again, never fly anything you can't afford to lose. Anyways, On my way out I pass through a small gatecamp and waved as I went through since their 1 tackler couldn't scramble my with my stab. I made it out to an empty system with more than 5 belts in it and decided to start there. I made about a mil off 200k BC bounties and was having a seriously good time. Everytime someone came into local my heart jumped as I scrambled to check them out. Finally, after about 15min I jump in and jackpot, 2x 650k raven spawns. This is it I thought! The equivalent of a long lvl3q18 agent sitting in 1 belt! So I went full speed ahead at the first raven. After 3 reloads I was at a standstill, I could get the raven to just under 10% shields but I just couldn't break the tank before I ran out of missiles. By the time they reloaded he was at full shields. No matter I thought, I will go get a BCS2 and come back out. Since all my fittings were junk I knew a little more firepower was all I would need and they didn't get close to breaking my tank so losing a SPR was no issue. Back I go and on my way back I hit a much larger gatecamp. Fortunately they only had 1 tackler and again I was off. WCS ftfw! I got my BCS2 and headed back out, unfortunately this time I met a HUGE gatecamp and lost the rox in about 5seconds. (In case you guys are reading this thx for the intro to 0.0 life wouldn't have been the same without it.) So as I warped my pod out by the grace of lag I thought to myself...gee, I wonder why no one wants to go out to 0.0? So far I'm down about 50mil and it's only night 1. (I lost 2xT2 invulns, the insurance, the BCS2 and the T2 large extenders, next time I'll fit less T2 :p) That's when it hit me....is the risk worth the reward for the average player? Sure I could be in a mega alliance in secured space but for most players, or even more specifically new players is 0.0 attractive at all? In my opinion it's not. Without a good alliance to keep you safe I don't really see an advantage to 0.0. I understand I won't get blown up every night but I will have to kill a LOT more than I'm killed to make anything. Or I can stay in empire and mission and make a ton of isk and not have any risk. My questions are these: 1) Is there any safer way to 0.0 than what I did? 2) How can CCP make 0.0 more appealing (they obviously want to)? 3) Is nerfing empire the way to go? My answers: 1) Probably not. If I fitted more stabs I wouldn't have been able to rat. Even then the camp I met had probably 4+ tacklers. Even in a stabbed out raven I would have been scrambled. On top of that there are non counterable ways of warp scrambling. 2) No idea, I haven't spent enough time out there but this will NOT be my last time. Honestly though, if they remove instas I think gatecamps will be the norm and new players will be greatly discouraged. They just won't have the isk to burn. 3) No. If you nerf empire too much new players won't stick around long enough to actually go out to 0.0. If it wasn't for my mission chaining this loss would have hurt me. In the end it was alot of fun and I haven't lost a ship in a while so I didn't mind. I WILL be back out though I'll probably go out at like 10:30am EST and log out there and come back the nest day mid-morning as well. Prime time just isn't worth it. I knew I was going to lose the ship tonight but I wanted to try it anyways. To the guys who got me, thanks for the rush hope to see you soon. Thoughts? Discussion? Suggestions? This hasn't turned me off to 0.0 at all, if anything I am now more excited to get out there and do it again.
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:55:00 - [2] This has been discussed ad nauseum. If CCP wants to get more people into 0.0, they need to get rid of chokepoints. The end.
Lazy8s	Posted - 2006.09.28 03:57:00 - [3] I apologise I searched before I posted and I didn't find anything similar. I wasn't at a choke point either unless all gates are choke points. I was in a system with 5 or 6 (can't remember) gates in it. They just happened to camp mine I guess.
Trahern Twrgadarn	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:01:00 - [4] Or they could introduce a limited jump drive for frigs, say 3 jumps max. Or you could get your corp to make a carrier or 2 and equip 2 jump portal thingies. 0.0 is over rated Quote: Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her
Father Weebles Panzershrek	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Phoenix Lonestar This has been discussed ad nauseum. If CCP wants to get more people into 0.0, they need to get rid of chokepoints. The end. "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
Ephemeron Crimson Crusaders Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:03:00 - [6] getting the player base more drunk and worked up is probably the best way 0.0 is rewarding enough and fun enough already. What's missing are balls on most players.
Genericforumalt Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Ephemeron 0.0 is rewarding enough and fun enough already. What's missing are balls on most players. This right here, is the attitude that keeps people out of 0.0. Also: casual players don't have the time, most space claimed allready (kali might help some with this, lack of exploration (kali will also help this). The biggest part is the fact that casual players don't usually have the time for 0.0.
Lazy8s	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Ephemeron getting the player base more drunk and worked up is probably the best way 0.0 is rewarding enough and fun enough already. What's missing are balls on most players. I half agree with you. I think though it's a balance of balls and brains. The beer definately helped easy the suffering of the ship loss on the other hand my brain is telling me I probably won't make 50mil iisk a night but running to and from 0.0 I will lose it.
Hotice	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:20:00 - [9] Edited by: Hotice on 28/09/2006 04:22:46 To hunt npcs solo in 0.0 you cannot use a ship that use ammo. Also, you want to get a cheap hauler with a few giant secure containers to the system that you want to hunt. It takes a lot of planning to be productive. Pick the time right after the DT to get your hauler through then anchor the containers at a safe spot at least 2AU above or below the plain. You then stay in that system for days until your filled containers with loot. Then you check the map and haul the stuff back to empire right after DT. Travel between 0.0 empire cannot be done too often or you will get poped. I earned my first 100m in 0.0 way back when I first started and able to fly a maller and rupture. I find maller is better due to no ammo useage. 0.0 space is not friendly to solo or small group of casual players. The trip is very risky with instant bms. I cannot imagine going through 0.0 without the bms right now. Gate camps are normal sight near the systems connected to low sec empire space. They are the reason that so many people don't go near 0.0. In fact, with increasing number of snipers in low sec systems. People are not even going into low sec unless they have to without choice of any kind. There is no reward great enough to attrack majority of the casual empire people into low sec/0.0. Each ship they lost, will set them back for days or even weeks. They don't play much each week, and such risk is just too much for them to handle. Besides, they don't consider getting poped at gate is fun in anyway. Such kind of pvp encounter is the reason that people don't even want to bother. If ccp want more people to move into low sec/0.0, then they must deal with this issue.
Raymos	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:48:00 - [10] How to get more people out in 0.0? That's easy Give the 0.0 alliances billion isk a day farms and better control of the gates. That will get more people out there :)
Odeweaver Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.28 04:58:00 - [11] Solution, join an alliance, plenty are recruiting and its not that big of a deal if you can't go on a certain night. For me, after I joined TOS which is a part of CORE, the game picked up the pace and was much more fun since I was able to find more people to PVP and Mine with. For example, if I want to do some good mining, I ask in alliance chat if anyone feels like mining. Then I generally get two or three people together and have a hauler and a couple mining barges. 0.0 is more reasonable with an alliance due to having a few friendly outposts, and having a fairly secure bit of 0.0. Best of luck to you. -------- Pie mmmm pie - Immy DSFARGEG
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Genericforumalt Also: casual players don't have the time, most space claimed allready (kali might help some with this, lack of exploration (kali will also help this). The biggest part is the fact that casual players don't usually have the time for 0.0. i'm a casual player, and i'm in 0.0(Querious region, sure the corp pays rent, but thats another story) I work 48+hrs a week on 3rd shift, my wife is 9mths pregnent(the c-section is scheduled for Sept 28th about 7:30 am my time as the baby is ass backwards aka breech), and we have 3 other kids.... you tell me how much time I have... I tend to just go afk for extended periods of time whenever I need to do something i've lived in low sec space(in Solitude region), 0.0 space(Syndicate and Querious), and high sec empire space... I don't even want to go back to empire to shop half the time, empire SUCKS i've been in large scale pvp battles, small skirmishes, sat at a gate camping bubbles, and most other activities... it's just a matter of time management
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:24:00 - [13] I think 0.0 is meant for teamplay. Ok, you can npc solo, but 0.0 is not really balanced and meant to be played solo and probably never will be. You don't necessarily have to be in an alliance, but at least in a corp, who lives in friendship with some other locals there and with a bit pvp ability ( or without friends, but then it's harder and you need to fight for your space yourself ). I've started in Curse in a corp without alliance and it worked well, because we had friends there. We didn't pay for being there or so. It was just friendship and cooperation, especially to fight hostiles off. From time to time we formed pvp gangs with other locals and patrolled our region or the neighboring regions etc. Cooperation is the key and what makes 0.0 fun. If you manage that it's also easy to grab the rewards of 0.0, like rat and mine without being disturbed by hostiles every 5 minutes. That's maybe something that many people from empire don't understand. In 0.0 organization, teamplay etc. comes first, then the rewards. 0.0 requires social interaction and isn't really meant for the freelancer, who comes in from empire, rats a bit and goes back to empire. And so I'd say 0.0 is working as intended.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:29:00 - [14] You can't. Read the bazillion other threads on the topic if you're interested in the why. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:30:00 - [15] I know how to get more people into 0.0... make it concord territory! Its a excellent idea and has basicly NO drawbacks! Its fantastic and Im a god. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Airdorn Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:39:00 - [16] 0.0 is for the big boys. If you want to solo it, you have to be very careful and do it like one of the responders here said, with giant containers and DT. There are absolutely no controls over 0.0 which is great, imho. When you finally come of age, then you will be drawn to 0.0, regardless of level of danger. As for chokepoints, every 0.0 entry into empire is a 'chokepoint'.. there's just more of them now, which means the amount of CHOKE is smaller now than what it used to be.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:49:00 - [17] Edited by: Plutoinum on 28/09/2006 05:49:21 Originally by: Jim McGregor I know how to get more people into 0.0... make it concord territory! Its a excellent idea and has basicly NO drawbacks! Its fantastic and Im a god. :) Yes ofc, that's the degree of safety that some people liked to see. But those people don't realize that the greatest thing about 0.0 aren't the rewards but the type of gameplay in 0.0. I'm quite happy in V, but if I and the friends I've made weren't in V, I'm quite sure that we would find another way to make it in 0.0, like we did before. Because 0.0 is what we want. Btw. about 9 months ago some people off my corp split off and went to syndicate, lived there for some months and made friends there. So from Curse to Syndicate, to the other side of the map. 0.0 isn't that 'closed'. It's only closed to the people, who try to play it the empire way and just think of ratting and mining, but forget that 0.0 requires more planning and dedication.
Eternal Fury Caldari Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2006.09.28 05:56:00 - [18] OK. Heres the thing. 0.0 is a bad place for one reason. You have to cross low sec to get there. And EVERY 0.0 region has only a few ways in/out of it. Example. Cloud Ring. The Ass end of 0.0, and my home. You have to pass through a single system called F7C. This system is the first 0.0 system from empire towards Cloudring. This system is what we call a bottleneck. This is the system that you will most times find a gate camp in.(Waves to Outbreak) THIS is the single most dangerous part of 0.0 life. I consider this system "the Border". Once you are past it, either way, the chances of you running into a gate camp drop to almost nill. Well, OZ is a popular system for larger camps :) Anyways. How do you get around this. If you live in empire but work in 0.0, it's the commute that will be the killer 9 times out of 10. You can't use the Stations/Outposts in 0.0 as they are owned by the alliance that is holding that region this month. So what do you do. Well. Start with a small POS for your corp. This will give you 2 things. A place to run to when you see pirates jump into the system, and a place to rearm/reload your ship. Is it expensive? Yes. It costs about 15-20 mill a month to run. Is it worth it? I dunno. But if you find a system with 20-30 belts, you can rat solo all night in a battleship and just keep cycleing through the rats. This will make you some good isk. When you feel comfortable, or when you get more corpmates out there, you can put up a large POS, start building ammo so you don't have to enter empire as much. You can put in a refinery so your miners don't have to enter empire so much. You can mine the moon for extra income. And as your corp grows, they will spend less and less time in empire. I'm in a small corp. Who's closely aligned with 4-5 others. And this is how we all started. One of those corps is now a large part of one of the southern Alliance's. One's turned Pirate in the East (YARR). And one moved back to empire to recruit more new players. Hell, if you have a dedicated corp, you can run a LARGE POS with as little as 3 people. All you have to do is take the chance. Ohh, and before you go and start putting your first Small POS up, do a few test runs on the Test Server to get an idea of exactly what is needed, and when to do what. :) I've been in 0.0 for 4 months. I'll never go back to empire.. well, other then for loot selling runs, and to buy new modules/ships :)
Leverton Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:05:00 - [19] 0.0 is the true definition of sandbox PvP. CCP throws a bunch of stuff out there and says "have fun, GO!" There are a number of ways to slowly work into 0.0. Some corps will have trainer corps that prepare you for how things work down there. If you've never been down to 0.0, get an implantless clone, hop in a shuttle, and just go to 0.0. Set a waypoint and go. You'll likely get podded, but you'll see what it's like. The most interesting part of 0.0 is the complex political system. Northern politics are relatively isolated from Southern politics, and the scale is that of nearly one country vs. another. -- The universe is governed by the aggressive use of force. Hows this for a little note! Oh, and YARRRRR!! - Petwraith I prefer the term RAWR - Xorus
Kolatha	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Ephemeron What's missing are balls on most players. As much as I hate to admit it, this is very very true. Wave a huge pair about (or even just bluff a bit) and your low sec/0.0 sec will be a lot more pleasant. Take the 0.0 experiment guy, flying about and exploring 0.0 space in a shuttle, knowing full well the paranoia that many of the residents have concerning spy alts, took a pair that would make a prize bull look like a castrati. If you lose a ship, stop for a moment and try to engage your attacker in some smack free conversation in local. Do this and you may just be pleasantly surprised, you can find out where you went wrong, some good hunting grounds, how they have their ship fitted and most importantly you may now have one less person to worry about when you come back. Although there will be the occasional **** who is out there for no other reason than to make life miserable for other players they are not as common as one might think.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Eternal Fury Cloud Ring. The Ass end of 0.0, and my home. You have to pass through a single system called F7C. only if you set one waypoint (your destination) there are several ways into cloudring .. yeah - they might take longer to reach your destination but they don't go through a chokepoint ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Thoris Levithar	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Eternal Fury So what do you do. Well. Start with a small POS for your corp. This will give you 2 things. A place to run to when you see pirates jump into the system, and a place to rearm/reload your ship. Is it expensive? Yes. It costs about 15-20 mill a month to run. Is it worth it? I dunno. But if you find a system with 20-30 belts, you can rat solo all night in a battleship and just keep cycleing through the rats. This will make you some good isk. When you feel comfortable, or when you get more corpmates out there, you can put up a large POS, start building ammo so you don't have to enter empire as much. You can put in a refinery so your miners don't have to enter empire so much. You can mine the moon for extra income. I think many players would love to do that. However, the big problem I see is that the moment you put up a station somewhere, the local alliance/pirate corp/whatever comes with five dreads and destroys it. I guess in some cases you could make a deal with the people who "claim" the area, but from what I've read so far (maybe this is just wrong), most people don't like other players taking up residence in "their" space (even if the system is empty 99% of the time).
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.09.28 06:44:00 - [23] Originally by: Ephemeron getting the player base more drunk and worked up is probably the best way 0.0 is rewarding enough and fun enough already. What's missing are balls on most players. i totally agree i do 4 runs per day from rens to 0.0, usually you find a place to go through and when it's locked, well i do other things ! ------ relaxed corp looking for members
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Lazy8s 1) Is there any safer way to 0.0 than what I did? Negotiate. Join a corp or form a 1 man corp, this means people can set standings towards you. People in noob corps are always treated with suspicion in 0.0. I haven't actually checked you out in game so I don't know what corp you are in. Just take this as general advice. Some alliances are downright hostile to outsiders, when you encounter one forget negotiating and try another region. Many alliances do not operate an NBSI policy though, they just don't shout it from the rooftops. That means they won't shoot you on sight but it also means pirates have a better chance of getting into their space so it's still not 100% safe. In fact you could just as easily run into a pirate camp in such areas. Warzones are dangerous but a neutral can often slip through in the fog of war. My first foray was Pure Blind which was a free for all at the time (about a year ago). The key to 0.0 is teamwork. Joining an alliance is one way, another is to get in with the locals. Join a local intel channel. Help them out, they help you out. Watch each others backs. If you see hostiles don't just hide, warn the mining op 2 jumps over. A lot of people in 0.0 just want to raise their sec status, make some ISK or plain just live there. It really is a wild frontier and loners get killed quick. At least get known in an area then you'll have backup if you need it, trust me you will need it at some point. Don't just fly into alliance space unannounced, contact one of their leaders first or check to see if they have a website with a diplomatic forum. >> RECRUITING <<
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:43:00 - [25] hmm .. looked on the eve-killboard and found the OP how i see his situation? he's member of an freelancer/mining/missionrunning/whatever alliance (Freetrade Coalition) which has some POSes in eastern geminate (definetly from the BB-times in BWF) .. imho Geminate is one of the worst places atm for soloplayer/newbies in 0.0 as it is patrolled by triggerhappy people (BWF by Euphoria Unleashed + Residents, EOA and surroundings by F-E + friends) so everything south/south-west on the map of FDZ is quite hostile for everyone and getting into the east of geminate either means you have to move through the one chokepoint in great wildlands i think (which is sometimes/often(?) camped by LV, V and friends as far as i know) or to do a quick run through BWF/EOA ... @OP ... best bet is to bring some material during some quiet times to FDZ to the stations (though be aware of F-E roaming the pipe up there ) and ask one of your alliancemates where FTC has some POSes in the systems east of FDZ (north of TDE4 that is ) ... so much intel ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Thecle Vifargent Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:48:00 - [26] Perhaps next time you shoud do some easy things which could help you surviving and passing by gate camps : Before going to a gate, warp in a safespot near it (avoid moons...) and scan (even without probe launcher) the gate. If you see 254 ships waiting there, its time to find another route. Then, open your map, and watch your next systems with the option "people in space in the last 30mins" and "ship destroyed in the last 30 mins". If you see 457 people and 2 658 blown ship, the good idea it to avoid this system. That wont prevent you from anything, but at least, it will makes you avoid some damages. To live in 0.0, in a huge corp or no, you need to have your "own hunt territory" with intas, safe spot, scanning spots and such. Dont be paranoid, but they are everywhere !
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:57:00 - [27] Originally by: Thoris Levithar I guess in some cases you could make a deal with the people who "claim" the area, but from what I've read so far (maybe this is just wrong), most people don't like other players taking up residence in "their" space (even if the system is empty 99% of the time). That's why you should develop a good relation to other locals. 0.0 is giving and taking, negotiating, making friends, teamwork. If you have no interest in that, your life isn't worth much. Tell me one reason, why somebody should share his home system, ratting ground, ore with someone, who just wants to take and nothing more. I see no reason to tolerate such people. Either we have a good relation / he or his corps becomes one of the guys I/we like or he's free to be shot at. That's how it usually works also in non-alliance space. I think it's ok, because it forces people to integrate somehow into the community that lives there. Having a hard time is the answer for not trying to build up a good relation to some locals and caring just about yourself and your own wallet and nothing/noone else.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.28 07:59:00 - [28] I don't think getting more people out to 0.0 is about making it easier to solo. If some people want to try to solo, fine and good luck. But for mass migrations joining the alliances is the answer. The rewards are far greater when you live in 0.0 and don't have to go back and forth. ---------- Nerf Caldaro!
Niccolado Starwalker Syncore Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:10:00 - [29] First of all, we all have t acknowledge that eve deep space is a dangerous and cold place. The triggerfinger is pretty happy and eager, and the losses are always emminent and painfull, possibly setting you back with months of work It took me 6 months before I sat my foot outside empire space. Yes, it slowed down my PvP experience, but I won a lot too. Knowledge of the game, being better prepared when I lost my virginity and my ship in combat on my trip down to Feythabolis for the first time, better prepared echonomically and skillwise. A stable platform to fall back on if everything simply fall apart, which IS possibly in a game such as EVE. Empire have its uses. In a way empire space and deep space, completes eachother. Forcing anyone out of it or into it, will only be with negative results, as people have different requirements before they feel ready enough to take such a step, which imo. aint a small one
Noriath	Posted - 2006.09.28 08:16:00 - [30] Disallow research on or manufacturing of tech 2 blueprints in Empire stations. Allow alliances to recruit agents from Empire corps to operate at their outposts. Improve infrastructure in 0.0 by allowing players to create automatic processes that create essentials like skillbooks, containers, shuttles etc. Improve defense structures in 0.0 so the main threat to an alliance is not random gankers but full scale invasions, and they can let in the occasional neutral. Create a system that allows alliances to set stations to not grant landing permission if a person carries certain items so they can let traders in without people starting to stash POS fuel and fleetships... Make running POS less of a pain in the neck by allowing alliances to create all fuel types, and not force them to import half of them from empire. Allow people to build more varied structures by basing ice type off consteallations, not regions. Encourage controlling less space with stronger infrastructure instead of huge amounts of space with not a single POS in half the systems to allow more people to stake a claim in 0.0 Add planetary industry and resources only obtainable by owning systems in 0.0 and colonizing their planets.

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