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MajorLeeExponential
The Co-Operative's
0
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Posted - 2015.01.30 11:27:09 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all, just a few of my thoughts to ponder....
You would all no doubt be aware of CODE's recent campaign to wreak havoc among the High-Sec traders, Miners, and Missioners of value.
First of all, congrats to CODE and associates for making our gaming a little more interesting. I find it all very amusing and think it adds another dimension to the game. I've enjoyed pointing my guns at you
However, i see a "one-sided" flaw that, in my mind, could be improved upon.....
Most of, if not all of, the aggressors have both terrible security standing (-10.0), and large bounties (often multi-billions of isk) I find it amusing that the game mechanics are such that you can shoot the ship and pod of someone with a multi-billion isk bounty and yet receive a paltry 10'000 isk or less!!
These large bounties are certainly a badge of honor to be worn by these players...and rightly so.
CCP, I would love to see larger payouts in high-sec from people with terrible standings. eg. The varying system security multiplied by the severity of the players standing equals the increased / decreased bounty received.
This could work and would no doubt changed how criminals operate in high-sec vs the risk of losing your badge of honor over time if you persist with your actions..
No doubt this will create a spirited discussion from players far more clever than me. Your thoughts please......
Major
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2644
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Posted - 2015.01.30 11:30:27 -
[2] - Quote
If the bounty payout is higher than the cost of ship after insurance and the gear on it, then it's profitable to self-collect.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
248
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Posted - 2015.01.30 11:33:17 -
[3] - Quote
The bounty system used to work in the way that bounties were paid in full. It made the entire bounty system useless, since everyone just claimed the bounties with their alts.
I am afraid this cannot be solved in a way that does not lead to the bounty system being abused. The current system is infinitely better than the old one, since at least SOME bounties are claimed by hostiles, unlike before. |
MajorLeeExponential
The Co-Operative's
0
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Posted - 2015.01.30 11:48:28 -
[4] - Quote
I agree totally that to payout a bounty in it's entirety is counter productive...
1. CODE and friends would never come and visit us in HS = bad
2. Multi billion isk bountiy'd players would never leave the safety of their POS / Station = bad
3. Self collecting would become prevalent = worse than bad!
I do however think that the pay-outs of -10.0 players in cheap throw-away-ships / pods etc could be improved...
I also would like to say that i actually think that CODE's gameplay makes EVE far more interesting and enjoyable....just a little one sided which i think is ultimately not good for the game |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
727
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Posted - 2015.01.30 11:59:12 -
[5] - Quote
Get rid of bounties, re-instate SP loss with no medical clones , nerf cheap ships with too much fire power for their size aka destroyers (even 5 small turrets is enough, 7-8 with damage bonus on a sub 1.5 million isk hull....balance in favor of the guy willing to throw them away like hamburger wrappers, cause its what was in side that was of value aka gank target), remove auto pilot except for laying out the path (aka no jumping and 15km coasting) and reintroduce the concept of risk vs profit instead of lulz. Only problem there is, aside from removing barges/exhumers and freighters that pop way to easily with a large cargo capacity using pi+¦ata style paper-mache tanking ability (put a gold brick in a pi+¦ata and give some a shot gun instead of a stick to take it out, yup that's ganking cause they are so greedy and its so easy). Freighters should just have reduced cargo capacity even further to about 150m3, more tanking ability, faster align time currently (not saying frigate speeds), with no low slot mods to not encourage stupid shitfits (cause it was such a stupid good idea to do it in the first place) and the pilots need to travel even more trips to get to market. Profit, screw bounties and let them blink while they blow up freighters with less loot...force the pilots to use at least battle cruisers while they go blinky, less people but same fire power for less risk, want more isk then do as level 4 missions nerfs and exploration buffs (good guys got screwed last couple years for living in highsec, bad guys should take a turn ); put your butt on the line instead of sitting in highsec surrounded by CONCORD....go take a moon, go hunt the null alliances or worm hulls, farm FW instead of stupid lazy players (aka remove the incentives to be lazy).
tl;dr : Go outside highsec and earn the isk where same dudes demand highsec dwellers be forced. |
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
248
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Posted - 2015.01.30 12:02:04 -
[6] - Quote
MajorLeeExponential wrote: I also would like to say that i actually think that CODE's gameplay makes EVE far more interesting and enjoyable....just a little one sided which i think is ultimately not good for the game
The only reason it is one sided is that one side does not even try to defend themselves. EVE can not be balanced based on the difference between what those who put a lot of effort into their work can do against those who do not even begin to try. If there is need for balance it should be based on what fully active and hard working miners can do to defend themselves against a highly organized ganking operation. I do not see a major imbalance there.
I have recently paid a visit to highsec as tourist and explored the local culture and habits by suicide ganking a few miners. I actually lost a catalyst in a rather embarassing way to a miner who was aware and had secretly hull tanked their Retriever. She defeated me by actually playing EVE. Others did not even try. If highsec ganking was balanced with the assumption that AFK untanked miners should have a chance against active players, miners who actually defend themselves would be invincible lords of PvP just by the virtue of existing. To some extent this kind of balacing has been done, since suicide ganking is no longer profitable enough to be worth your time if what you want is ISK and tanking mining ships has been made far easier than ever before. |
MajorLeeExponential
The Co-Operative's
0
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Posted - 2015.01.30 12:20:41 -
[7] - Quote
MajorLeeExponential wrote:I
just a little one sided which i think is ultimately not good for the game
I certainly got off topic by the above mentioned comment.....my apologies.
The point that I'm ultimately attempting to make is that when you do take up arms and fight, that the bounty rewards are paltry at best with the current game mechanics. I believe that modifying this would make the game more interesting and rewarding for those individuals who do make the choice to fight : ) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2644
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Posted - 2015.01.30 12:40:58 -
[8] - Quote
You're saying it should be modified, but despite understanding the problems with the system, you're not proposing any ideas. At least propose some kind of half-hearted solution.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
57
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Posted - 2015.01.30 14:51:03 -
[9] - Quote
I remember when people mined in battleships. Ganking wasn't an issue back then.
-Badman
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MajorLeeExponential
The Co-Operative's
0
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Posted - 2015.01.30 21:02:26 -
[10] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:You're saying it should be modified, but despite understanding the problems with the system, you're not proposing any ideas. At least propose some kind of half-hearted solution.
In my opinion bounty payouts need to be changed, because podding a multi billion isk criminal in high sec and recieving a 10'000isk pay out is a disincentive and an insult to anyone who takes up arms against criminals.
So my proposal is this....
1. a system security modifier based on amount received when podding a criminal in HS varying from 0.5 - 1.0
2. a pilot security status modifier based on their positive or negative status. |
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
1
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Posted - 2015.01.30 21:08:08 -
[11] - Quote
Thinking adversarially, how do your proposals work if CODE decide to gank themselves in their cheap pods? They would be able to convert their bounties into cash. So this proposal fails: the money gained by a bounty must always be less than the value of the ship or pod destroyed. |
Orlacc
765
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Posted - 2015.01.30 21:32:42 -
[12] - Quote
I always shoot Reds I see in high sec. Huge bounties would make it my profession! Talk about smack!
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
2246
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Posted - 2015.01.30 21:39:05 -
[13] - Quote
MajorLeeExponential wrote:1. CODE and friends would never come and visit us in HS = bad
Code is a part of the New Order of High Sec. I think it's safe to say we'll be present until they turn the lights out, or more likely, until they end up suddenly declaring suicide ganking an exploit. Not that CCP have ever ruled something ok in the past and then turned round and called it an exploit all of a sudden.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
1212
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Posted - 2015.01.30 21:47:52 -
[14] - Quote
Bounties effectively act as a form of ship insurance for gankers, except, better because its paid for by ganking victims. Because gankers will generally collect their own bounty by shooting their own doomed BC-sized gank-hulls with warp-in scouts.
Increasing the payout only increases ISK flow from miners to gankers and makes ganking cheaper.
So, I am all in favor of the OP's idea. Two thumbs up. Good idea, miner.
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MajorLeeExponential
The Co-Operative's
0
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Posted - 2015.01.31 01:35:27 -
[15] - Quote
Great points and good ideas guys....thanks for your input.
The common thread that has arisen from this topic is about self collection; a very valid point.
I think the one way to minimize this is to not have the payouts too high (as apposed to the current very low ones). Maybe 10-50 mil isk maximum, dependent on the system security status and character security status, as previously mentioned, for example.
Naturally the payout figure would increase as the value of the criminals ship increases as is currently the case, and rightly so.
I still believe that most players that have bounties on them in the 100's of millions or multi-billions of isk would care more for that as a "badge of honor" and pride than to self collect...i know i would |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2657
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Posted - 2015.01.31 04:23:41 -
[16] - Quote
MajorLeeExponential wrote:I still believe that most players that have bounties on them in the 100's of millions or multi-billions of isk would care more for that as a "badge of honor" and pride than to self collect...i know i would I would too, but most wouldn't, and didn't, when self-collection was possible. Your idea, while noble, doesn't account for the profitability of self-collection.
The only way I can see to make bounties slightly better is to up the rate for T2/T3/faction kills, because those payouts are still based on drawn-down insurance values/mineral values. But this would require a lot of balancing work, and gankers don't use those ships anyway.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Don Purple
1121
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Posted - 2015.01.31 06:32:16 -
[17] - Quote
Pods self on alt, recieve 85b isk. Lets do this.
I am just here to snuggle.
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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
1214
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Posted - 2015.01.31 06:54:26 -
[18] - Quote
This is just another one of those "I heard somewhere gankers have it too easy, and I hate gankers, so lets change things I don't understand."
Hilarious, because the 'fix' would only help the people the people he is trying to punish.....
Kind of like all those people who demand aggression flags for bumping, or think you can somehow program code which hands out suspect flags to neutral Orca alts for 'bad intentions'.
Hmmm...what do they remind me of? Oh yeah, Obama voters.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2657
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Posted - 2015.01.31 06:59:45 -
[19] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Hmmm...what do they remind me of? Oh yeah, Obama voters. Heeeeyyy...I voted for Obama!
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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hellyeaz
Systems High Guard Circle-Of-Two
2
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Posted - 2015.01.31 08:19:56 -
[20] - Quote
Looks like another half-assed attempt to gain forum fame by jumping on the "i hate CODE" bandwagon. Thinly veiled even. |
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Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
27
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Posted - 2015.03.04 01:20:16 -
[21] - Quote
I say make the payout equal to the kill value and payout at up to100 percent of kill value (but not more than the value of the bounty).
Also, just to make it interesting include one open killright with any bounty that is 100M ISK or more. While this part could be skirted around careful timing of dropping a bounty with a killright could still result in some good emergent gameplay... |
Paranoid Loyd
4005
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Posted - 2015.03.04 01:28:14 -
[22] - Quote
Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:I say make the payout equal to the kill value and payout at up to100 percent of kill value (but not more than the value of the bounty). Read the first reply in the thread.
Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:Also, just to make it interesting include one open killright with any bounty that is 100M ISK or more. While this part could be skirted around careful timing of dropping a bounty with a killright could still result in some good emergent gameplay... So I just have to find mission runners running in shiny ships or freighter pilots carrying at least 200 mil and put 100mil bounty on them and then activate their killright. Glad to see you thought these ideas through.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Tikra Vargur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2015.03.05 00:18:41 -
[23] - Quote
I think an improved bounty system would include or improve on these key points, these are some of my own ideas but mostly culled from various posts throughout the forums. I would really be interested in hearing your opinion on making Bounty Hunting a profession a priority in CCP Coding
Kill Rights Bounties Skills Modules Kill Rights
Kill Rights that last longer than 30 days GÇô how about they donGÇÖt expire.
Yeah I have the names of the guys who ganked me when I was a noob, I am still a noob by the way. I can now use locator agents and track them down when I feel my skills are up to it. However it would be great to bump into them in hisec have a kill right from a year ago that I could activate and have a shot at them.
Or even as just a reminder that I still have a score to settle Big smile
KillRights could become a commodity to be bought and sold on the market auction contracts could work well for this?
Activating a killright destroys it regardless of the outcome of the battle. Activating a killright could start a forced duel between the two parties? So you will want to be in sight and ready to engage the target before activating the kill right.
The kill right expires after the first offensive module is used on the target or (timeframe? I would suggest 30 days the current Kill Right timer) This would allow you to try again if the target escaped before you could aggress him. This timer would only apply to killrights that were purchased, earned killrights would not expire unless an offensive module was used on the killright.
An actual Bounty System
Bounties can only be placed on a player within 30min of acquiring a kill right, and can be any amount
Additionally a minimum bounty say 50mil can be placed without a kill right. This would be similar to a Wardec on an individual. A Bountied player is added to the card list of all Bounty Agents.
Bounties are only paid out to the player who holds the card for that character and are paid in full. Killing a player with a bounty is no longer a surprise jackpot the bounty is untouched until it is properly collected.
Bounty Cap? Should bounty be unlimited or capped at a few hundred million? Placing a bounty cap will allow the profession to stay unique to those who truly want to pursue it. If you can make billions in your favorite gameplay why would you risk so much time and effort for a relatively small pot? Meanwhile a professional Bounty Hunter should be able to make a nice living.
Fleet members can aggress the Bountied target without Concord intervention. The normal fleet mechanics could be used to divide the rewards, with the Card holder having the final say. This would allow small bounty gangs to roam hisec as a proactive police force.
Bounty Cards
Request a bounty card from a Bounty Agent you will be given a random card of a player within X number of jumps with a bounty to collect. You will never receive a Corp member or Alliance bounty card. I also assume CCP can prevent alts from collecting a card that would break this concept. So rolling for additional cards in the hopes of getting a friend for a mutually beneficial conclusion should be next to impossible.
Once activated the card will expire after engaging the target. If the target is not engaged within (timeframe? I would suggest 30 days the current Kill Right timer) the card is lost and returns to Concord to be randomly assigned to another Bounty Hunter. A hunter could hold multiple active cards at once 5 to 10 active bounties. If bountied players arenGÇÖt dying fast enough the cards could be dealt to multiple hunters simultaneously and a race to beat your fellow hunters is on!
Better Access to Concord Intel
Concord has tabs on everyone so unless they are in a wormhole we should be able to tap into that intel. Who could access that intel? People with the right skills.
Bounty Hunting becomes a new type of mission complete with instructions to assist in finding the target. The intel could go so far as to specify the ship presently being flown or docked at Station XYZ in a Typhoon. The higher your bounty skills the more accurate the intel would be.
Welcome, Dawg the Bounty Hunter always good to see you.
I think I have a Bounty that is particularly suited to your expertise!
Will you accept the contract?
Excellent! You have thirty days to collect your bounty.
You have drawn the card of Sir Tyrell Ganksalot last known intel shows this lowly criminal as undocked in Niarja in a Catalyst, he has 25 kills in the last thirty days and a 123 million dollar bounty.
Good Luck Capsuleer!
Bounty Hunter skills
We should be able to train skills to become a Bounty Hunter, make it a true Eve profession.
Bounty Hunter 1 to 5 improved access to Concord intel to find a Bounty or Kill right target GÇô the higher the skill the higher value cards you will be offered and the more recent the location information is.
Advanced Bounty Hunter 1 to 5 intel accuracy improvements GÇô access to Bounty Hunter Modules
Bounty Hunter Tools
Bounty Hunter Module GÇô when activated the Bounty you are actively seeking canGÇÖt see you on Dscan or local, I think as Bounty Hunters get to be well known this will be a necessary tool for them. This is a reasonable counter to the ganker who is able to get easy access to miners for intel gathering and then strikes them without warning. This would be a good mechanic to get the ganker looking over his shoulder a little bit.
Bounty Hunters may have to make specific fitting choices based on the requirements of this module GÇô Active or Passive module?
Bounty Hunter Probes GÇô again undetectable by the activated Bounty Card or Kill right will only scan for your active Bounty Card. |
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