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Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 819	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:13:22 - [31] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: It's a game of right tools for the right job. Some situation will want a buffer tank some an ASB and still other normal shield boosters. You can't balance everything for every situation and there would be no point in doing that. It's like calling that a Rifter obsoletes the Probe in 1v1 combat... If you look at the comparison of an equivalent fit a few posts back, one with dual ASB, the other with SB plus cap booster, you will see that the ASB always outperforms the SB. There is never a time when you will prefer a shield booster over the equivalently-sized ancillary version.* edit: unless the SB is of the gist a-type or gist x-type variety Embers Children* is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 137	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:21:53 - [32] - Quote Strange. My arty thrasher killed a triple MASB hawk without much issue. This is because alpha counters most active tanks. How many of those meta0 t1 frigs fit arty? Course then again your are playing in a confined set of rules of meta0 items and t1 frigs. in reality, a t2 fit AF, or even a LML breacher or condor would take you out. Since you have no damps to counter them at range. Which reminds me. Dual MASB breacher is strong in brawling range, but you get out of scram range and kite (or never get there in the first place.. And itll die just the same. Just because something tanks alot, doesnt mean it has no weakness. The difference between MASB and AAR is fitting. MASBs take up more fitting than AARs. AARs use less than a t2 equivalent, not to mention they rep more and continue repping even without paste. Once ASBs run out of charges, you wait 45s on reload and have no tank (unless you have 2). If you get attacked by ships that arent t1 and fit with meta0 modules, on a non bonused hull, you will get a very different outcome.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 820	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:30:16 - [33] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Strange. My arty thrasher killed a triple MASB hawk without much issue. This is because alpha counters most active tanks. How many of those meta0 t1 frigs fit arty? Course then again your are playing in a confined set of rules of meta0 items and t1 frigs. in reality, a t2 fit AF, or even a LML breacher or condor would take you out. Since you have no damps to counter them at range. Which reminds me. Dual MASB breacher is strong in brawling range, but you get out of scram range and kite (or never get there in the first place.. And itll die just the same. Just because something tanks alot, doesnt mean it has no weakness. The difference between MASB and AAR is fitting. MASBs take up more fitting than AARs. AARs use less than a t2 equivalent, not to mention they rep more and continue repping even without paste. Once ASBs run out of charges, you wait 45s on reload and have no tank (unless you have 2). If you get attacked by ships that arent t1 and fit with meta0 modules, on a non bonused hull, you will get a very different outcome. Stitch, you realise what you've just said though right? The counter to a dual MASB frigate is a ship one class higher - a destroyer. Similarly an effective counter to a dual-asb battlecruiser is a battleship. The counter to a dual (or triple) ASB battleship is... a marauder... I think this illustrates nicely what is wrong with the dual-asb setup in its current form. Reducing the shield regen to be proportional to the size of the charge you put in the module solves this without gimping the original intent of the ASB (a quick recharge to shields for skirmishers) To be specific. This thread is not a moan about the concept of the ASB, it's highlighting the fact that dual-asb is too easy to fit, too efficient and so powerful that it makes all other shield tanks obsolete. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Sean Parisi Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 606	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:47:43 - [34] - Quote Of course in the test that is prevalent they would come out on top. However, I would assume a dual repped incursus with boosters would have done the same. Also Dual ASB ships are not "Prevalent" in Faction warfare. You occasionally will run into ships that run this and if you aren't prepped it can be a headache - however these ships can be easily destroyed. Most dual asb fits - especially on frigates lack any form of dual tackle, Ie: Range dictation - they cannot web, scram and ab - where as the other target can. Their fit if often tight meaning they have smaller guns - thus less range. They lack substantial buffer meaning they easily fall under concentrated DPS unless linked / implanted and they are susceptible to alpha strikes. ASB's will run out of charges if pressured by enough DPS. More so if you can hold that target at an optimal where they cannot retaliate or if you TD / Neut the target into submission. Because although Neuts wont shut the temporary tank down - they will indeed turn the targets prop mod off, scram and guns. Also ASB is essentially the equivalent of a Tech 2 Module - so you should have not been using it in the fight you were having. Those limitations hardly provide reasonable skill based limitations. Tech 2 = Barrage, Null, Scorch - these are things that make a substantial and massive difference in a given fight.
ashley Eoner 410	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:51:57 - [35] - Quote So this thread can be summed up with... "OMG ASBs are OP in our tourny that had rules which seemed specifically designed to give ASB setups an advantage"....
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 820	Posted - 2015.02.02 17:56:45 - [36] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: Of course in the test that is prevalent they would come out on top. However, I would assume a dual repped incursus with boosters would have done the same. Also Dual ASB ships are not "Prevalent" in Faction warfare. You occasionally will run into ships that run this and if you aren't prepped it can be a headache - however these ships can be easily destroyed. Most dual asb fits - especially on frigates lack any form of dual tackle, Ie: Range dictation - they cannot web, scram and ab - where as the other target can. Their fit if often tight meaning they have smaller guns - thus less range. They lack substantial buffer meaning they easily fall under concentrated DPS unless linked / implanted and they are susceptible to alpha strikes. ASB's will run out of charges if pressured by enough DPS. More so if you can hold that target at an optimal where they cannot retaliate or if you TD / Neut the target into submission. Because although Neuts wont shut the temporary tank down - they will indeed turn the targets prop mod off, scram and guns. Also ASB is essentially the equivalent of a Tech 2 Module - so you should have not been using it in the fight you were having. Those limitations hardly provide reasonable skill based limitations. Tech 2 = Barrage, Null, Scorch - these are things that make a substantial and massive difference in a given fight. Yes I hear that a lot - "it's really a T2 module" and I have some sympathy with the position (except that it's cost is almost nothing). Have a look at my further analysis of cap efficiency in ASBs. The fact that ASBs give the same increase in shield for a half-sized cap booster means that they are more efficient than standard shield boosters. And in reality the fitting requirements for dual ASB are no more than those for fitting SB plus cap booster, which is the normal equivalent. For this reason you would always without exception prefer dual T1 ASB over T2 SB + CAP booster. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:00:51 - [37] - Quote from your rules why didn't someone just out range you with light missiles? pop your drones and wear you out of charges. 6 un bounsed drones aren't much for toughness.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:01:55 - [38] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Sean Parisi wrote: Of course in the test that is prevalent they would come out on top. However, I would assume a dual repped incursus with boosters would have done the same. Also Dual ASB ships are not "Prevalent" in Faction warfare. You occasionally will run into ships that run this and if you aren't prepped it can be a headache - however these ships can be easily destroyed. Most dual asb fits - especially on frigates lack any form of dual tackle, Ie: Range dictation - they cannot web, scram and ab - where as the other target can. Their fit if often tight meaning they have smaller guns - thus less range. They lack substantial buffer meaning they easily fall under concentrated DPS unless linked / implanted and they are susceptible to alpha strikes. ASB's will run out of charges if pressured by enough DPS. More so if you can hold that target at an optimal where they cannot retaliate or if you TD / Neut the target into submission. Because although Neuts wont shut the temporary tank down - they will indeed turn the targets prop mod off, scram and guns. Also ASB is essentially the equivalent of a Tech 2 Module - so you should have not been using it in the fight you were having. Those limitations hardly provide reasonable skill based limitations. Tech 2 = Barrage, Null, Scorch - these are things that make a substantial and massive difference in a given fight. Yes I hear that a lot - "it's really a T2 module" and I have some sympathy with the position (except that it's cost is almost nothing). Have a look at my further analysis of cap efficiency in ASBs. The fact that ASBs give the same increase in shield for a half-sized cap booster means that they are more efficient than standard shield boosters. And in reality the fitting requirements for dual ASB are no more than those for fitting SB plus cap booster, which is the normal equivalent. For this reason you would always without exception prefer dual T1 ASB over T2 SB + CAP booster. unless you expect neuts and require cap to run your tackle and guns.
Adrie Atticus Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion 901	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:05:30 - [39] - Quote So, ASB's are OP because you stopped the fights when you ran out of cap boosters due to an arbitrary time limit?
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 477	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:15:44 - [40] - Quote Jack Morrison wrote: They were really really OP when they got out and hence were nerfed a bit. What is the issue bro ? ASBs being powerful in small gang fights ? (like a tri-rep hyperion) Well that is the point. As soon as your enemy has a few alpha ships or even just a few dps ships focusing fire on you - it's game over. I would say - there is nothing to see here, move along! When was the last time you fought a triple xlasb (minmatar missile command ship)? It's really not that simple. I've seen these things tank multiple battleships worth of damage pretty much indefinitely. Fastest way to fix asb problems? Reduce cargo capacity as a penalty. By like 30% per module. Also they dontt actuslly function correctly. I remember from design notes that an xlasb loaded with 400s still required 400cap per cycle from the ship to work meaning you either sported 800s and ran capless or you ran 400s and still risked veing capped out. So in that respect I think asbs were broken on delivery for that reason alone. They have options for what size booster you load them with because they were designed around it mattering. If not a cargo bay reduction then at least patch them to require the largest booster ammo they can fit ie xlasb take 800s only. Lasb take 400 and masb take 200. Should have been done a long time ago. Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 649	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:44:10 - [41] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Stitch, you realise what you've just said though right? The counter to a dual MASB frigate is a ship one class higher - a destroyer. Similarly an effective counter to a dual-asb battlecruiser is a battleship. The counter to a dual (or triple) ASB battleship is... a marauder... I think this illustrates nicely what is wrong with the dual-asb setup in its current form. Except in real life, most ship classes were designed to hunt and kill stuff of a lower class, and outrun anything bigger than it (before everything became escorts to carriers). When two ships of a similar class, similar tonnage, and similar armamants fought each other, it was fairly even at times (assuming one didn't get the drop on the other) and sometimes both sides withdrew, calling it a "draw".
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 1431	Posted - 2015.02.02 18:49:14 - [42] - Quote One ASB per ship limit. The Tears Must Flow
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1539	Posted - 2015.02.02 19:19:54 - [43] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Stitch, you realise what you've just said though right? The counter to a dual MASB frigate is a ship one class higher - a destroyer. Welcome to EVE on TQ, where I can bring whatever I want to rain on your 1v1 elite pvp...
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 19:46:49 - [44] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Jack Morrison wrote: They were really really OP when they got out and hence were nerfed a bit. What is the issue bro ? ASBs being powerful in small gang fights ? (like a tri-rep hyperion) Well that is the point. As soon as your enemy has a few alpha ships or even just a few dps ships focusing fire on you - it's game over. I would say - there is nothing to see here, move along! When was the last time you fought a triple xlasb (minmatar missile command ship)? It's really not that simple. I've seen these things tank multiple battleships worth of damage pretty much indefinitely. Fastest way to fix asb problems? Reduce cargo capacity as a penalty. By like 30% per module. Also they dontt actuslly function correctly. I remember from design notes that an xlasb loaded with 400s still required 400cap per cycle from the ship to work meaning you either sported 800s and ran capless or you ran 400s and still risked veing capped out. So in that respect I think asbs were broken on delivery for that reason alone. They have options for what size booster you load them with because they were designed around it mattering. If not a cargo bay reduction then at least patch them to require the largest booster ammo they can fit ie xlasb take 800s only. Lasb take 400 and masb take 200. Should have been done a long time ago. How much dps is that triple ASB command ship doing? those battleships could just sit there till it dies. Not all fights in eve have to be over in 30 seconds.
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 272	Posted - 2015.02.02 19:48:22 - [45] - Quote what the smeg is going on here? Dual ASBs are not a new thing and are so not over powered at all. People who dual deal with this all the time. Whats next, triple rep myrm has too much reps? Seriously get out a bit. Fly it into a real PvP, let us see how well you do. If the only time something is "overpowered" is in a artificial 1v1 with meta 0 (seriously WTF). ASB are balanced against all mods not just fekin meta 0. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 821	Posted - 2015.02.02 19:57:45 - [46] - Quote Delt0r Garsk wrote: what the smeg is going on here? Dual ASBs are not a new thing and are so not over powered at all. People who dual deal with this all the time. Whats next, triple rep myrm has too much reps? Seriously get out a bit. Fly it into a real PvP, let us see how well you do. If the only time something is "overpowered" is in a artificial 1v1 with meta 0 (seriously WTF). ASB are balanced against all mods not just fekin meta 0. A triple rep myrm has to make compromises in order to get its fantastic (very short term) tank. triple reps means dual boosters, small guns and zero damage mods. In fact the tank requires 4 mods and 3 rig slots. The ship is in all other respects, totally gimped so this is a bad example. A better example would be the dual-rep hyperion which is actually one of the few ships to be better at armour tanking than dual-asb-ing. Another would be the deimos (which is insane) and sacrilege (not quite as insane). See also the comparison between dual-asb and SB+cap booster on the previous page. The ASB is supposed to be a "quick recharge to cap for skirmishers" but in actual fact it displaces ordinary shield boosters as a logical choice for a local tank, as well as obsoleting natural armour tankers. The dual-asb myrmidon is a good example of this, offering superior sustained tank and dps over the armour tanked version. Please don't think I'm theory crafting. I have had my share of pvp over the past 4 years. I fully understand the importance of speed, distance, alpha, transversal. And the ASB with undersized charges is still wrong. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 272	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:00:58 - [47] - Quote And a dual ASB has to make compromises on fit. FFS stop playing in safe box and get out there and PvP... tell me how many fights you own. Lets see some proof of there OPness. Cycle time, 3 sec. 9 charges, 1 min reload, do the math. They are not OP or everything would be a ABS fit. Hell our corp doesn't use them on our t3s or vagurs for a reason. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 821	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:04:29 - [48] - Quote Delt0r Garsk wrote: And a dual ASB has to make compromises on fit. FFS stop playing in safe box and get out there and PvP... tell me how many fights you own. Lets see some proof of there OPness. Cycle time, 3 sec. 9 charges, 1 min reload, do the math. They are not OP or everything would be a ABS fit. Hell our corp doesn't use them on our t3s or vagurs for a reason. You'll be glad to learn that math is my strong point. If you dual-asb your vargurs they will actually last longer in pvp. This is because ASBs use cap more efficient than all shield boosters other than Gist. This is why gist shield boosters are an order of magnitude more expensive than every other. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 650	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:05:39 - [49] - Quote Exactly. Comparing how an item does in a bound and defined tournament to actual usage in EVE is bad, and you should feel bad. Might as well say 1400s are the best weapons ever and everyone should use them always after looking at a Tornado does sniping a shuttle at 50+km.
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 821	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:08:16 - [50] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: Exactly. Comparing how an item does in a bound and defined tournament to actual usage in EVE is bad, and you should feel bad. Might as well say 1400s are the best weapons ever and everyone should use them always after looking at a Tornado does sniping a shuttle at 50+km. Oh I can assure you that I feel terrible I'm sorry, I don't follow the argument. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:08:43 - [51] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Delt0r Garsk wrote: And a dual ASB has to make compromises on fit. FFS stop playing in safe box and get out there and PvP... tell me how many fights you own. Lets see some proof of there OPness. Cycle time, 3 sec. 9 charges, 1 min reload, do the math. They are not OP or everything would be a ABS fit. Hell our corp doesn't use them on our t3s or vagurs for a reason. You'll be glad to learn that math is my strong point. If you dual-asb your vargurs they will actually last longer in pvp. This is because ASBs use cap more efficient than all shield boosters other than Gist. This is why gist shield boosters are an order of magnitude more expensive than every other. Its called logi. they make cap out of thin air (guard/basi) or are cap stable (the other 2) They rep more efficiently they an asb or shield booster ever will.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 735	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:12:52 - [52] - Quote As a side note, I don't know that I'd go around telling folks that your corp mates died en masse to a shield repping Malus.... Vote Sabriz!
Mournful Conciousness Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate 821	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:13:45 - [53] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Delt0r Garsk wrote: And a dual ASB has to make compromises on fit. FFS stop playing in safe box and get out there and PvP... tell me how many fights you own. Lets see some proof of there OPness. Cycle time, 3 sec. 9 charges, 1 min reload, do the math. They are not OP or everything would be a ABS fit. Hell our corp doesn't use them on our t3s or vagurs for a reason. You'll be glad to learn that math is my strong point. If you dual-asb your vargurs they will actually last longer in pvp. This is because ASBs use cap more efficient than all shield boosters other than Gist. This is why gist shield boosters are an order of magnitude more expensive than every other. Its called logi. they make cap out of thin air (guard/basi) or are cap stable (the other 2) They rep more efficiently they an asb or shield booster ever will. So external reps then. Therefore tangential argument to the thread and irrelevant. Of course logi beats all. It involves more players! Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:16:45 - [54] - Quote Mournful Conciousness wrote: Lady Rift wrote: Mournful Conciousness wrote: Delt0r Garsk wrote: And a dual ASB has to make compromises on fit. FFS stop playing in safe box and get out there and PvP... tell me how many fights you own. Lets see some proof of there OPness. Cycle time, 3 sec. 9 charges, 1 min reload, do the math. They are not OP or everything would be a ABS fit. Hell our corp doesn't use them on our t3s or vagurs for a reason. You'll be glad to learn that math is my strong point. If you dual-asb your vargurs they will actually last longer in pvp. This is because ASBs use cap more efficient than all shield boosters other than Gist. This is why gist shield boosters are an order of magnitude more expensive than every other. Its called logi. they make cap out of thin air (guard/basi) or are cap stable (the other 2) They rep more efficiently they an asb or shield booster ever will. So external reps then. Therefore tangential argument to the thread and irrelevant. Of course logi beats all. It involves more players! well then stop putting artificial restrictions on fitting and see how op your ASB's are?
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 169	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:19:41 - [55] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: As a side note, I don't know that I'd go around telling folks that your corp mates died en masse to a shield repping Malus.... He forced them to only fit meta 0 items (some of the hardest to fit and most useless Items) so of course the ship with dual asb with 4 drones is either going to last out the timer of the fight or win.
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 735	Posted - 2015.02.02 20:43:25 - [56] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: As a side note, I don't know that I'd go around telling folks that your corp mates died en masse to a shield repping Malus.... He forced them to only fit meta 0 items (some of the hardest to fit and most useless Items) so of course the ship with dual asb with 4 drones is either going to last out the timer of the fight or win. Oh I thought it was just t1 fits. Missed the meta 0 requirement. ASB's are meta 1...... Vote Sabriz!
Delt0r Garsk Shits N Giggles 272	Posted - 2015.02.02 21:02:34 - [57] - Quote If ASB are so over powered. Show me the kills. You can't because they are not. They give a awesome burst tank, but a burst is all and dual, well if your bursting its still going to run out. Death and Glory! Well fun is also good.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 171	Posted - 2015.02.02 22:05:34 - [58] - Quote Ned Thomas wrote: Lady Rift wrote: Ned Thomas wrote: As a side note, I don't know that I'd go around telling folks that your corp mates died en masse to a shield repping Malus.... He forced them to only fit meta 0 items (some of the hardest to fit and most useless Items) so of course the ship with dual asb with 4 drones is either going to last out the timer of the fight or win. Oh I thought it was just t1 fits. Missed the meta 0 requirement. ASB's are meta 1...... Dang your are right. He was cheating after all.
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 478	Posted - 2015.02.03 02:08:19 - [59] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Jack Morrison wrote: They were really really OP when they got out and hence were nerfed a bit. What is the issue bro ? ASBs being powerful in small gang fights ? (like a tri-rep hyperion) Well that is the point. As soon as your enemy has a few alpha ships or even just a few dps ships focusing fire on you - it's game over. I would say - there is nothing to see here, move along! When was the last time you fought a triple xlasb (minmatar missile command ship)? It's really not that simple. I've seen these things tank multiple battleships worth of damage pretty much indefinitely. Fastest way to fix asb problems? Reduce cargo capacity as a penalty. By like 30% per module. Also they dontt actuslly function correctly. I remember from design notes that an xlasb loaded with 400s still required 400cap per cycle from the ship to work meaning you either sported 800s and ran capless or you ran 400s and still risked veing capped out. So in that respect I think asbs were broken on delivery for that reason alone. They have options for what size booster you load them with because they were designed around it mattering. If not a cargo bay reduction then at least patch them to require the largest booster ammo they can fit ie xlasb take 800s only. Lasb take 400 and masb take 200. Should have been done a long time ago. How much dps is that triple ASB command ship doing? those battleships could just sit there till it dies. Not all fights in eve have to be over in 30 seconds. OH thats right the minmatar missile command ship with 3 xlasb's doesn't fit. put a rack of HAM II's on it and it takes all the low slots and rig slots to make it fit. with 69cpu and 79 powergrid left to fit 3 mids. Sure it will active take a lot but with only 436 dps ( 160 is drones) and no prop its a sitting duck. Well if we want to continue to use your own extremely flawed logic: what is bait? Faction warfare pilot and solo/small gang PVP advocate
Ned Thomas Hellbound Turkeys Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects 739	Posted - 2015.02.03 02:19:54 - [60] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Lady Rift wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: Jack Morrison wrote: They were really really OP when they got out and hence were nerfed a bit. What is the issue bro ? ASBs being powerful in small gang fights ? (like a tri-rep hyperion) Well that is the point. As soon as your enemy has a few alpha ships or even just a few dps ships focusing fire on you - it's game over. I would say - there is nothing to see here, move along! When was the last time you fought a triple xlasb (minmatar missile command ship)? It's really not that simple. I've seen these things tank multiple battleships worth of damage pretty much indefinitely. Fastest way to fix asb problems? Reduce cargo capacity as a penalty. By like 30% per module. Also they dontt actuslly function correctly. I remember from design notes that an xlasb loaded with 400s still required 400cap per cycle from the ship to work meaning you either sported 800s and ran capless or you ran 400s and still risked veing capped out. So in that respect I think asbs were broken on delivery for that reason alone. They have options for what size booster you load them with because they were designed around it mattering. If not a cargo bay reduction then at least patch them to require the largest booster ammo they can fit ie xlasb take 800s only. Lasb take 400 and masb take 200. Should have been done a long time ago. How much dps is that triple ASB command ship doing? those battleships could just sit there till it dies. Not all fights in eve have to be over in 30 seconds. OH thats right the minmatar missile command ship with 3 xlasb's doesn't fit. put a rack of HAM II's on it and it takes all the low slots and rig slots to make it fit. with 69cpu and 79 powergrid left to fit 3 mids. Sure it will active take a lot but with only 436 dps ( 160 is drones) and no prop its a sitting duck. Well if we want to continue to use your own extremely flawed logic: what is bait? In this case? Apparently something that should die after about 30 seconds if you know what to do. Vote Sabriz!

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