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[GMVA] [FEDERATION] Petition for immediate action on Circadian Seeke...

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Anja Suorsa Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 325	Posted - 2015.02.04 15:20:25 - [31] - Quote Avoid the point, fine. That is your choice. Being deliberately obtuse doesn't suit you however. Unless you're genuinely suggesting that you do already lead GMVA and it is infact Soter who is the puppet? Quote: For Immediate Public Release. Approved by [AISA] Julianus Soter, [XMETA] Frozen Fallout, [DV-MS] Phox Jorkarzul & [GMVA] Leadership That would be a surprise. A disappointing one, I truly had the impression you were better than him.
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 396	Posted - 2015.02.04 15:52:40 - [32] - Quote Oh my, this is all very rich. I'm the one who's being deliberately obtuse? I don't lead GMVA, but I am a veteran who is part of the diplomatic team. Very occasionally I lead a fleet when I am able to do so. Halting system captures was my proposal. I thought someone should make an effort towards incremental de-escalation of the warzone. Soter warned me that it would be received with cynicism or outright hostility. He was right. It was enjoyable to go back and give that topic a read, actually. For one thing: I'd forgotten that you were the first in line to denounce that effort as well. Honestly, I'm not sure what you expect me to think of your so called "point." If I shared your opinion of Soter I probably wouldn't have flown with him for the something like five years that I have. Be deliberately provocative as you like, just because I am a diplomat doesn't mean I have to be respectful of it. Soter started this topic because he has longstanding concerns regarding the Sleepers. Honestly, I mostly find the whole thing baffling as I've not spent nearly as much time in W-Space as he as. Nevertheless, having seen the massive Unidentified Structures cloaked all over the place... I'm prepared to say they might be a big enough deal for us to put aside sniping at each other for a moment or two.
Tabris Katz New Moon Harvesters 25	Posted - 2015.02.04 16:55:36 - [33] - Quote Mr. Julianus Soter, I agree with you that the incursion of Sleeper scouts into our space and the discovery of sleeper caches in the New Eden cluster is alarming and we need to respond to this. However we must look at this from a logical perspective. It wasn't until the Seyllin incident that wormholes began opening up and it was the empires and capsuleers that initially attacked them because we saw the potential of fullerite based technology. With this in mind it would only be logical for them to send scouts to our space and document who we are. Of course this assumes there is a complex intellect behind their actions. With that in mind I do need to clarify some of my opinions on this matter. I am not advocating we stop harvesting/creating fullerite based technology. This technology is integral in our fight against the pirate organizations that currently plague New Eden. They are the one leg up we have on them and can not relinquish it. Also I am not suggesting we do nothing about the Circadian Seekers or the sleeper caches we've been detecting in New Eden. For those of us that have ventured into these caches, we have seen evidence that the Sleepers are attempting to adapt our own morphite based weapon systems to their own design (polarized weapons). These enhanced systems are obviously not meant for use on ships, hence the debilitating effect they have on our ships' defensive systems. So it is my speculation that the Sleepers are attempting to morphite into their own weapon systems, for what purpose I don't know but I can't be anything other then unpleasant. I don't know what the goals of the Sleepers are or if they are even capable of sentient thought, for all we know they may be acting on some base programing set forth from their creators. However, we must prepare for any and all contingencies. Not doing so would be folly. But this is not as an important endeavor as ridding our space of the pirate scourge that have several negative ore direct effects on all citizens of New Eden.
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 254	Posted - 2015.02.04 23:48:03 - [34] - Quote Tabris Katz wrote: Mr. Julianus Soter, I agree with you that the incursion of Sleeper scouts into our space and the discovery of sleeper caches in the New Eden cluster is alarming and we need to respond to this. However we must look at this from a logical perspective. It wasn't until the Seyllin incident that wormholes began opening up and it was the empires and capsuleers that initially attacked them because we saw the potential of fullerite based technology. With this in mind it would only be logical for them to send scouts to our space and document who we are. Of course this assumes there is a complex intellect behind their actions. Thank you for your well thought-out and compressive response. I shall raise a small piece of history, however, and ask for your response... When the wormholes first appeared, CreoDron corporation was one of the first organizations to enter Sleeper space. At the head of this expedition was a brilliant scientist, Liandra Burreau, led an expedition supported by a host of non-combat exploration scout drones. She flew a Helios-class Covert Ops frigate, which any accomplished Capsuleer pilot would know is essentially a non-combat vessel. Upon contact with the Sleeper civilization, all communication was lost with Burreau's expedition. No authorization for lethal force had been given to the CreoDron team. The Sleepers opened fire first. Burreau's vessel was discovered, and within it, no capsule or corpse. A piece of trinary data was discovered, all that was left, clearly a message from the Sleepers of some kind. Liandra Burreau herself was either abducted, or killed. No clones activated upon loss of contact with her. So, you can see, there are already clear signs of hostile intent. Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Luther Renvolint Xzantanian Idependancy 2	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:01:06 - [35] - Quote Julianus Soter wrote: Burreau's vessel was discovered, and within it, no capsule or corpse. A piece of trinary data was discovered, all that was left, clearly a message from the Sleepers of some kind. Does anyone know if this data still exists? Does anyone have a copy? I think I have a decoder that I can experiment with lying around here somewhere ... If we can decode their language, it would be a significant scientific and strategic breakthrough!
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 254	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:33:03 - [36] - Quote Luther Renvolint wrote: Julianus Soter wrote: Burreau's vessel was discovered, and within it, no capsule or corpse. A piece of trinary data was discovered, all that was left, clearly a message from the Sleepers of some kind. Does anyone know if this data still exists? Does anyone have a copy? I think I have a decoder that I can experiment with lying around here somewhere ... If we can decode their language, it would be a significant scientific and strategic breakthrough! Unfortunately, the data did not survive the accidental destruction of the Helios by a capsuleer. It was recorded in the killmail of the event, however. As a result, we're operating blind, guided only by basic human common sense, logic, and the rules of war. The Sleepers will attack. Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 710	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:48:31 - [37] - Quote Mr. Katz echos my own feelings on the matter. The alarmist rhetoric Mr. Soter chooses to employ is a bit disconcerting considering the need for a measured and controlled response to this situation. Still, the threat Sleepers present to New Eden should not be underestimated; the empires have a right to be worried, but no right to panic. In fact, based on the current pattern for hostility the so-called 'Circadian Seekers' are following, it would likely be a dire mistake for empire navies to initiate hostilities with them as that might provoke sustained combat between system garrisons and the intruding Sleeper scouts. As far as we know these scouts do not shoot unless you shoot first. Thus far blowing up Sleepers has been an exclusively capsuleer business, and thus far only capsuleers have reported taking fire from them. Hopefully this state of affairs will remain constant, but it most certainly will not if they consider non-capsuleer vessels as threats as well. Before we advocate military of action from any baseliner authority we ought to carefully the potential repercussions. Furthermore, we should examine the assumption that information gathering on the Sleeper's part is a certain indication of hostile intent and a prelude to invasion. That is merely one single potential, and while the empires and CONCORD should prepare for that possibility, it should not be considered the only one. It is clear that the Sleeper drones are gathering information on New Eden and human technology and civilization. It is also clear that their motivations and goals are almost entirely unknown as we have not communicated in any way with their civilization. It is inherently flawed to apply normal theory pertaining to territory, sovereignty, surveillance with hostile intent and military security to the actions of the Sleepers civilization (or remnant thereof) as we do not know if it even has these concepts, let alone is following them. Are they a nation? Do they have a state? Do they even possess territory? Instead, they seem to be reacting to an unusual circumstance in a logical way: gather information, explore new a new environment and develop an appropriate response pattern to the various elements encountered. Hopefully their findings will allow some form of communication and diplomacy to develop as the only method of communication we seem to have at the moment is 'invade/not invade' and 'shoot/not shoot'. That said, humanity probably should not be provoking a mysterious and technologically superior civilization into combative action by being hasty, as Anslo so inelegantly expressed earlier in this thread. In short, let us stay on our guard but not act before we understand what we are dealing with.
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 254	Posted - 2015.02.05 00:56:18 - [38] - Quote Aldrith, good to hear from you again. I would point you towards my response to Mister Katz. The abuduction or destruction of Lianda Burreau,and the loss of her entire team, seems to indicate a hostile intent. They did not, for example, put up a welcome mat with the words "Nice to meet you" on the front porch. If the Sleepers are so hostile that they would destroy an unarmed expedition simply in proximity of their facilities, why should we not show the exact same response in return? Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 710	Posted - 2015.02.05 01:04:46 - [39] - Quote According to the article linked, the ship was unharmed until the capsuleer that found it blew it to pieces. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Sleepers took her.
Jukko Riis Black Rise Colonial Exploration 51	Posted - 2015.02.05 01:16:19 - [40] - Quote Mr. Soter, I agree with your estimate that the 'Circadian Seekers' do represent a very potential threat. And should things turn for the worst, they will certainly require a unified effort to contain. We, as a species, should recognize that simple truth. I was a young security officer the last time we faced a similar threat. Namely, the first incursions of Sansha Kuvakei in 112. I was a member of a team that went into one of the first planets after the local population had been scooped away to a fate worse than death. Many people, baseline, and capsuleer said that Sansha represented the greatest threat to peace and humankind that we, as a species had encountered. That left unchecked, we would all become the slaves of that madman. Five years on, Sansha is still a danger, but we adapted. We survived. We are still at war. So I have a proposition for you. If you truly believe your words and the threat assessment you've laid out, then we're going to need to meet it on an equal or greater scale. If...if you can spearhead an effort to remove all Gallente forces out of Black Rise, if you can stay on your side of the border, engaging only the pirates of Low-Sec and the Seekers as needed, I'll talk to our side and see if we can't come to a similar arrangement. It sounds simple, right? If this is as big a threat as you...we...believe, then we'd be foolish to be fighting among ourselves. So let's see if you can meet halfway. Pull out of Black Rise. Show you're willing to end hostilities in the name of a greater threat and I think you'll find some like-minded peers here in the State. Can you do it for a month? A fortnight? Call it a social experiment. I have people telling me you are as untrustworthy as Roden. That you're an opportunist. Others say you care as much for your people as I do for mine. Let's see what truth your words have. Ultimately, I think Mr. Shutaq has the best assessment. What we don't know outweighs what we do know. Black Rise Colonial Exploration
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 396	Posted - 2015.02.05 01:33:17 - [41] - Quote Jukko Riis wrote: Mr. Soter, ... So I have a proposition for you. If you truly believe your words and the threat assessment you've laid out, then we're going to need to meet it on an equal or greater scale. If...if you can spearhead an effort to remove all Gallente forces out of Black Rise, if you can stay on your side of the border, engaging only the pirates of Low-Sec and the Seekers as needed, I'll talk to our side and see if we can't come to a similar arrangement. It sounds simple, right? If this is as big a threat as you...we...believe, then we'd be foolish to be fighting among ourselves. So let's see if you can meet halfway. Pull out of Black Rise. Show you're willing to end hostilities in the name of a greater threat and I think you'll find some like-minded peers here in the State. Can you do it for a month? A fortnight? Call it a social experiment. I have people telling me you are as untrustworthy as Roden. That you're an opportunist. Others say you care as much for your people as I do for mine. Let's see what truth your words have. Ultimately, I think Mr. Shutaq has the best assessment. What we don't know outweighs what we do know. I'll go ahead and respond to this on behalf of [GMVA] right now. No. Villore Accords has made a similar proposal in the past as Pilot Suorsa mentioned earlier. What we did, we did unilaterally and our gesture was met with near universal derision by Caldari Loyalists. Not only that, within a short time CalMil commenced a major buildup of forces in preparation for an invasion of Placid. If you manage to broker some kind of Caldari led de escalation of hostilities as a gesture of good faith, GMVA will consider an appropriate and incremental response in kind. Keep me posted.
Julianus Soter Moira. Villore Accords 254	Posted - 2015.02.05 03:22:02 - [42] - Quote While I do feel honored that each time that I make a forum post on the IGS, that random, non-combatant Caldari capsuleers of low standing throw themselves before me to make peace overtures, it is irrelevant to this thread. Move along, please. Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/
Eran Mintor Furtherance. 773	Posted - 2015.02.05 04:57:03 - [43] - Quote While I stand behind the idea that CONCORD, and the four empires themselves, need to wake the hell up and start doing something about it, here's a few of my concerns. 1) Making national announcements about a threat, especially one you know little to nothing about will not go over well with any civilian population. Many free markets are based on people's fear and adding an unknown factor is not wise. Instead they should, and likely are, having many meetings behind closed doors with top echelon members of government and military before making any wide announcement. 2) While I respect the message, it's clear that the messenger is one who sparks enough controversy that the audience can't stay focused. I understand you mentioned nothing about Villore Accords' past actions yet others brought it up themselves, I feel you should expect as much by now and prepare to mitigate such unnecessary banter. Sometimes it pays to use a proxy. -Eran
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 397	Posted - 2015.02.05 05:58:45 - [44] - Quote Eran Mintor wrote: While I stand behind the idea that CONCORD, and the four empires themselves, need to wake the hell up and start doing something about it, here's a few of my concerns. 1) Making national announcements about a threat, especially one you know little to nothing about will not go over well with any civilian population. Many free markets are based on people's fear and adding an unknown factor is not wise. Instead they should, and likely are, having many meetings behind closed doors with top echelon members of government and military before making any wide announcement. 2) While I respect the message, it's clear that the messenger is one who sparks enough controversy that the audience can't stay focused. I understand you mentioned nothing about Villore Accords' past actions yet others brought it up themselves, I feel you should expect as much by now and prepare to mitigate such unnecessary banter. Sometimes it pays to use a proxy. -Eran Eran, do be aware that the people who are raising such "controversy" about Julianus and GMVA are not neutral parties. PYRE is literally our enemy and have been part of our declared opposition for years. GMVA is a Federation Loyalist organization. You might notice that participants on the IGS tend to disproportionately made up of Caldari and Amarrian loyalists. One should take into account when such people start throwing personal insults at us that we have been shooting them for years.
Eran Mintor Furtherance. 773	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:05:26 - [45] - Quote Rinai Vero wrote: Eran, do be aware that the people who are raising such "controversy" about Julianus and GMVA are not neutral parties. PYRE is literally our enemy and have been part of our declared opposition for years. GMVA is a Federation Loyalist organization. You might notice that participants on the IGS tend to disproportionately made up of Caldari and Amarrian loyalists. One should take into account when such people start throwing personal insults at us that we have been shooting them for years. Don't get me wrong, I understand that your enemies will take this opportunity to attack you on the forums, but my thought is that this could altogether be avoided if the front-man wasn't the executor of a Gallente loyalist bloc. Use a proxy like I said, and most would probably know no better. Regardless of the merit of such accusations by your enemies, it still is detracting from the actual topic and I've yet to see anyone mention Sleepers for a few posts now because they're debating topics relating to Gallente politics which have absolutely nothing to do with this. Cheers, -Eran
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 397	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:12:46 - [46] - Quote Ah, why should we be exiled from having our say on topics of importance? You don't see us going into I-RED's topics and derailing them with personal attacks. Nor anyone telling I-RED that they aren't allowed to comment on matters of galactic import because they are Caldari Loyalists. Nor anyone blaming I-RED for their topics getting derailed by Gallente / Minmatar trolls. Honestly.
Eran Mintor Furtherance. 773	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:24:12 - [47] - Quote Not saying you're exiled from having your say, all I'm saying is if you had picked another spokesperson you probably could've avoided all this and we'd be talking about Sleepers and not whatever it is we're talking about now. Great that you don't derail threads; its always been my belief that you treat others how you wish to be treated. With that said I think we all need to refocus on what actual matters here. If you only wish to speak on Gallente/Caldari matters there are a few dozen other threads where you can spit your bile. If you are genuinely concerned about the Sleepers, no matter your heritage, then let's talk. -Eran
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 397	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:40:21 - [48] - Quote Excuse me, but this really isn't my thread. It's Soter's. I feel compelled to speak because I don't like what i'm seeing here. Soter started this because he cares about the Sleepers. You're basically saying that he shouldn't be allowed to post about the things he cares about on the IGS because it hurts someone else's feelings. Frankly, i'm starting to get pretty pissed off.
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 398	Posted - 2015.02.05 07:51:00 - [49] - Quote Honestly, the original personal attack was so out of bounds I should never have responded to it at all and should have made an official Point of Order. I'll do so now, instead of continuing this off topic discussion any further.
KaRa DaVuT Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance 64	Posted - 2015.02.05 08:20:15 - [50] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Anslo wrote: Well you're the ones who docked up, oh 'defenders of the Empire.' Pro-tip. The secret to a proficient combat record is taking every fight you can't lose and avoiding every fight you can't win. Protips for Coward Fighting 101..." We Caldari make tactical retreats and undock only If we sure are winning" We Gallente call that as "running away" Bravo "Commander" Tuulinen. You really are an expert on Caldari Warfare.. Want more. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
Kalaratiri Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 472	Posted - 2015.02.05 08:51:45 - [51] - Quote KaRa DaVuT wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Anslo wrote: Well you're the ones who docked up, oh 'defenders of the Empire.' Pro-tip. The secret to a proficient combat record is taking every fight you can't lose and avoiding every fight you can't win. Protips for Coward Fighting 101..." We Caldari make tactical retreats and undock only If we sure are winning" We Gallente call that as "running away" Bravo "Commander" Tuulinen. You really are an expert on Caldari Warfare.. Want more. Well, that certainly explains Luminaire She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire. This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 948	Posted - 2015.02.05 09:35:25 - [52] - Quote As far as this GMVA announcement goes please note that my organization holds no opinion in this discussion and any statementsmade were made on an individual basis. Whatever these seekers are up to is not part of the scope of our current contract. Nor are Black Rise politics. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
ISD Flidais Asagiri ISD Community Communications Liaisons 142	Posted - 2015.02.05 09:43:27 - [53] - Quote **Communication Interrupt ISD Flidais Asagiri Maintain Topic Avoid off Topic discussions Trolling is monitored Continue as planned** ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security 4484	Posted - 2015.02.05 16:22:29 - [54] - Quote Desiderya wrote: As far as this GMVA announcement goes please note that my organization holds no opinion in this discussion and any statementsmade were made on an individual basis. Whatever these seekers are up to is not part of the scope of our current contract. Nor are Black Rise politics. I would like to state, for the record, that my contribution was a personal opinion and not the opinion of Pyre Falcon, who I am not empowered to speak on behalf of in any capacity. Apologies if that was unclear. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..."
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 399	Posted - 2015.02.05 17:00:11 - [55] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Desiderya wrote: As far as this GMVA announcement goes please note that my organization holds no opinion in this discussion and any statementsmade were made on an individual basis. Whatever these seekers are up to is not part of the scope of our current contract. Nor are Black Rise politics. I would like to state, for the record, that my contribution was a personal opinion and not the opinion of Pyre Falcon, who I am not empowered to speak on behalf of in any capacity. Apologies if that was unclear. I think its a poor representation of your organization when the most either Pilot has to offer to a discussion are insults, personal opinion or not. Especially when those opinions are repeatedly distracting. We can leave it at that, and you are welcome to provide your input the topic at hand. Perhaps you have some perspective on what response you think the State should make to the current Circadian Sleeper activities?
Jukko Riis Black Rise Colonial Exploration 54	Posted - 2015.02.05 18:32:39 - [56] - Quote Julianus Soter wrote: While I do feel honored that each time that I make a forum post on the IGS, that random, non-combatant Caldari capsuleers of low standing throw themselves before me to make peace overtures, it is irrelevant to this thread. Move along, please. cough Fine... I suppose I should try to be somewhat more civilized. Please stay on topic. Thank you. Random, non-combatant? Of low-standing. Hrm... Don't flatter yourself Soter. You don't need to be the point person for a potential peace accord. You're just one of the few Gallente that seemed to have sense enough to I.D. a credible outside threat. The "overture" wasn't meant to inflate your already considerable ego, but to give both sides time and space to address the threat that our new neighbors pose. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you're actually needed as a part of that process. That you can't see the relevance, only proves right your many detractors. Personally I think a little species-based solidarity could be a good thing. Any civilization that is more advanced than our own is a threat. Just like we're a threat to any lesser civilizations we may encounter. The Circadian Seeker ships have a faster point, better range, and tougher shields/armor than even a Caldari ship of the same class (I'd love/hate to see what they'd do to a typical Gallente Bento Box). They learn and learn fast. And there's a difference...they don't behave like a typical rogue drone. There's an intelligence behind them. And that's the biggest and most dangerous variable of all. So as was said, a little prudence on our part right now could save a lot of lives down the road. Since Soter would much rather revel in his own witticisms, I'll throw a modified offer out there to the general public. If you live and/or work in Black Rise and want to delve further into this, including a serious amount of defensive research, drop me a line. Things probably won't go all to hell. Probably. Black Rise Colonial Exploration
Quattras Peione Gentlemen of Fortune. 57	Posted - 2015.02.05 18:34:25 - [57] - Quote It is saddening, though hardly surprising, that even when we are facing - and ostensibly discussing - what could be the greatest threat New Eden has ever faced, amongst capsuleers it devolves into a squabble about petty puppet politics. I love alliteration. The State seems to be playing things characteristically close to the chest. And while I love my home nation, I simply cannot trust in the silent monolith in this matter. Gentlemen of Fortune. is prepared to launch a defensive blockade of the Okkelen constellation should this escalate. I would implore like-minded pilots to prepare for the worst and remain vigilant, but to NOT engage first. For all we know, escalation of violence on our end could initiate further adaptive behavior, classifying all of us as a threat.
Rinai Vero Moira. Villore Accords 400	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:24:00 - [58] - Quote Jukko Riis wrote: That you can't see the relevance, only proves right your many detractors. I already told you that GMVA has attempted the kind of de escalation of conflict you proposed. Want to show us something relevant? Organize your own coalition of players to follow your lead. Contact me once you've made a concrete and impactful effort in good faith. Then GMVA will consider a proportional response in kind. Look, all due respect, but we don't tell you what to do with [-BRCE] corporate operational goals. What makes you think you have the right to tell us how to run our Alliance? As it stands, your organization consists of two Capsuleers. You are not currently engaged in the Warzone. Hence, GMVA has absolutely no reason to redeploy any our Eight Member Corporations consisting of nearly Three Hundred Pilots from their current combat missions. It is the current view of GMVA leadership that our organization is perfectly capable of responding to potential Sleeper activity while maintaining our current operational posture within the Warzone. If we have cause to reevaluate that assessment, we will.
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1076	Posted - 2015.02.05 20:41:39 - [59] - Quote This is entertaining. Typical Federation over-reaction. What exactly would you have your government do? Every single one of these unknown structures appears to be completely impervious to attack. Scans reveal nothing. Don't get me wrong. I don't like them either. But until such time as a way to remove them is discovered, I suggest you remain calm and keep a close watch on these structures, as well as the Circadian Sleepers. Who knows what might happen next. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Luther Renvolint Xzantanian Idependancy 3	Posted - 2015.02.05 23:19:18 - [60] - Quote Soldarius wrote: But until such time as a way to remove them is discovered, I suggest you remain calm and keep a close watch on these structures, as well as the Circadian Sleepers. Who knows what might happen next. I agree, the time for large scale military action may come. Until then, those of us with explicitly scientific interests need circadians to study. If there is nothing to study, we cannot make progress! Believe me, all you who would sooner destroy them all than study them; study will eventually produce results. So yes, somethimg does need to be done now! But it should be to increase our understanding of this potential adversary, not turn to violence and destruction. Let's behave like the sleepers: observe, learn, adapt, then we can destroy if we need to. When we are more capable and ready to.

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