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Capitals for alliances - what for the rest of us?

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I M'Aspy	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:17:00 - [1] So you invest skills and isk into training for battleships and t2 weapons/tanks and if you're in an alliance or have access to 0.0, you get the option to train for capital ships (it would appear they have no use for empire/casual/solo players). But what about EVE's other players? The players that don't have the time, logistic support, or those of us who just want to play solo - what do we have to work for beyond a battleship? Like a lot of other players, I put a lot of time, effort and isk into working for a carrier - mainly beacause I saw it as a logical progression beyond flying a battleship and something worth training for. Unfortunately my 2b investment in skills and ship is sitting gathering dust and after the last patch unlikely to be used unless I want to take part in low sec piracy (very slow in a carrier). Is there any chance we could get some loving for the non alliance types?
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:19:00 - [2] Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 30/09/2006 00:21:24 Boohoo? This isnt WoW, not everyone can have everything.
Coran Ordus Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:22:00 - [3] HACs? Commandships? Assault frigates? Interceptors? Other races' ships? But the goal of the game isn't to get into the biggest, shiniest ship you can. I mean, you can play that little game, but eventually you run out of ships. It doesn't make sense nor is it practical to keep throwing in newer and bigger ones, and trying to keep it all balanced. At root, it's all about player interaction. If you don't like player interaction, you will eventually grow bored. Fact of life. You can play/advance faster than devs can develop, just like every other MMORPG out there.
Kazaam Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Kazaam on 30/09/2006 00:21:51 EVE Online is a MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online. Joke of the Day : Too bad it can't be "Massively Multiplayer" and "Online" at the same time _________________________________________
I M'Aspy	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:23:00 - [5] I don't want everything and this isn't a whine. I've got battleship 5, tanking skills at 5, weapon skills at 5 etc... What am I working towards?
Roulette Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:26:00 - [6] Originally by: I M'Aspy I don't want everything and this isn't a whine. I've got battleship 5, tanking skills at 5, weapon skills at 5 etc... What am I working towards? you're working towards becoming just another alliance 0.0 gate-watching slave sorry, but that's just how it is
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:26:00 - [7] Originally by: I M'Aspy I don't want everything and this isn't a whine. I've got battleship 5, tanking skills at 5, weapon skills at 5 etc... What am I working towards? How do we know what youre working against?
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:26:00 - [8] Edited by: Gonada on 30/09/2006 00:27:39 dear OP: this is not WOW, nor any happyfaced carebear game youve played before. you can do whatever you want, nothing is handed to you. you make whatever you want out of this game... BUT pvp is the main feature, wether competing for minerals, shipfighting,or whatever. PS: its been stated for over 8 months that carriers went ment to do missons, and that a chnge would be happening one day soon. so, to sum it up.... tissue? if you cant handle it, time to leave. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Kazaam Edited by: Kazaam on 30/09/2006 00:21:51 EVE Online is a MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online. Joke of the Day : Too bad it can't be "Massively Multiplayer" and "Online" at the same time Yes it's Multiplayer. Meaning many people playing at once. It doesn't mean you MUST play with others. This is true for all other mission runners, except those who have trained for cap ships who now are shut out of PvE with their ships of choice. No, there shouldn't be an I Win button for missions. Opening up L5 missions and gear them toward cap ships, making them SLIGHTLY more profitable than L4s and MUCH harder would IMO be the way to go. Give those who have trained, worked and paid for their ships of choice a PvE option. Not everyone has several hours to play everyday, nor is everyone interested in PvP which is evidenced by the number of people in Empire vs 0.0. It shows a seeming lack of foresight on CCPs part. PvE IS a part of the game no matter how many people claim it's not.
I M'Aspy	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Gonada this is not WOW, nor any happyfaced carebear game youve played before. I've never played WoW or any other carebear game - its been EVE since the end of beta. I intended this thread as a discussion for where empire dwellers would go beyond a battleship now that CCP has nerfed capital ships from low sec for all purposes other than construction and piracy - but I guess the current state of the EVE 'community' means that trolling the forums is seen as an easy way to greatness. Personally I'd like to see a ship beyond battleship, priced at about 1b isk, able to use capital modules but with less HP and no jump drive - maybe even unable to use coventional gates (requiring to be built in system for use).

Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:44:00 - [11] Sir, post with you main, or did you buy your 'main'? Post a name and we'll either discuss or tell you where to go. Gday. rofl 3rd thread Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:47:00 - [12] tech 3 ships 4tw Seriously, this is the logical progression. I'll see you there!
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:48:00 - [13] Edited by: Epsilon 1 on 30/09/2006 00:48:07 Originally by: I M'Aspy Personally I'd like to see a ship beyond battleship, priced at about 1b isk, able to use capital modules but with less HP and no jump drive - maybe even unable to use coventional gates (requiring to be built in system for use). Sir, how about you spend three years writing thousands of lines of code, creating content, setting up a server and providing support - you then can also be a game master ! Just think about it you could have "a ship beyond battleship, priced at about 1b isk, able to use capital modules but with less HP and no jump drive - maybe even unable to use coventional gates (requiring to be built in system for use)." Wouldn't it be wonderful, sir. Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Lisento Slaven Amarr The Drekla Consortium New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:49:00 - [14] All I know is I have no reason to buy a cap ship anymore =P I wonder how much the cap ship sales will drop now since a lot of people were using them for PVE. Hopefully lvl 5 missions will allow cap ships to be in there. Missions follow that whole hierarchy of ships. Frigs for lvl 1, cruiser lvl 2, BC lvl 3, BS lvl 4. Level 5 missions = you attack NPC-OS's (POS's) and other cap ships? =P --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Lisento Slaven All I know is I have no reason to buy a cap ship anymore =P I wonder how much the cap ship sales will drop now since a lot of people were using them for PVE. Hopefully lvl 5 missions will allow cap ships to be in there. Missions follow that whole hierarchy of ships. Frigs for lvl 1, cruiser lvl 2, BC lvl 3, BS lvl 4. Level 5 missions = you attack NPC-OS's (POS's) and other cap ships? =P Haha.. are you really that dense that you think capital ships primary use was in missions?
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Ediz Daxx Originally by: Lisento Slaven All I know is I have no reason to buy a cap ship anymore =P I wonder how much the cap ship sales will drop now since a lot of people were using them for PVE. Hopefully lvl 5 missions will allow cap ships to be in there. Missions follow that whole hierarchy of ships. Frigs for lvl 1, cruiser lvl 2, BC lvl 3, BS lvl 4. Level 5 missions = you attack NPC-OS's (POS's) and other cap ships? =P Haha.. are you really that dense that you think capital ships primary use was in missions? It's carebear propaganda <__________< I personally like the lad that said 'Cap ships have more uses in pve than pvp'. Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:55:00 - [17] Sell your cap ship, buy an officer/faction fitted raven and move to high sec to continue feeling special I blew the best part of 4.5 billion on one today.. floging one of my carriers to pay for a cnr aswell.. makes all spawns just as easy as using a dread I got a dual corpum/hard eos for the rest.... 94% resists 4tw Easy options if you look for um ______
Carch Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:32:00 - [18] well since capitals cant be used in missions or complexes anymore i see no reason what so ever that the capitals shouldnt be allowed into high sec space now. I just started training for capitals this week and i for one would like to use em anywhere i can go. such as wars in high sec as well as low sec. any reason we shouldnt?
Malverious Prime ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Ediz Daxx Haha.. are you really that dense that you think capital ships primary use was in missions? Your arrogance is legendary... i hope i get the chance to pod you sometime soon...
Voop	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Voop on 30/09/2006 01:40:46 Not playing the game for the for the right reasons? If you are playing any game for any reason other then to have fun then maybe you are the one missing out. So someone doesn't want to be like you, get over it. There are billions of people who don't want to be like you or me in this world, best thing to do is let them do what they enjoy and worry about yourself.

Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Malverious Prime Originally by: Ediz Daxx Haha.. are you really that dense that you think capital ships primary use was in missions? Your arrogance is legendary... i hope i get the chance to pod you sometime soon... huh?
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.09.30 01:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Malverious Prime Originally by: Ediz Daxx Haha.. are you really that dense that you think capital ships primary use was in missions? Your arrogance is legendary... i hope i get the chance to pod you sometime soon... huh? Apparently an angry user who wasted 7 months OMFGBBQW!! on cap ship training.
Shaikar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.30 02:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Shaikar on 30/09/2006 02:49:26 Originally by: Ediz Daxx Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 30/09/2006 00:21:24 Boohoo? This isnt WoW, not everyone can have everything. I just have to point out that in WoW only the "elite" big raiding guilds get everything. So what you actually meant to say is "this is like WoW!". Most of the player base in WoW only get to rot, unable to access most of the end game content in any meaningful way. That said I'm completely fine with no capital ships doing normal missions and complexes, because that is clearly silly. Maybe at some point they will make big level 5 missions or some such which need a cap ship but until then...
Alessar Kaldorei Caldari Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.09.30 02:48:00 - [24] Edited by: Alessar Kaldorei on 30/09/2006 02:50:02 Originally by: I M'Aspy I don't want everything and this isn't a whine. I've got battleship 5, tanking skills at 5, weapon skills at 5 etc... What am I working towards? That's a good question. What ARE you working towards? You had a cap ship already, I suppose. What were you planning to do after having it and playing around with it in missions and the like? There's a limited amount of ships in the game, and it's quite likely that a player can get to use every ship before the Devs can make more. The devs might even reach a point where they decide not to make more ships. If you only give yourself the objective of flying a certain ship, or 'the next ship', you will eventually reach that objective and arrive at the "existential crisis" you're having now. Working towards something is all nice and good, but what do you do after you reach your goal? From a mission-running point of view, you effectively don't have anything else to aim towards. You can already run the hardest missions in the ships best suited to doing them. You've 'won' Eve from the skill-training mission-running point of view. Luckily, Eve isn't only about training for the best mission ship. You would now have to figure out something else to work for. And there are several alternatives. As some people mentioned (with a remarcable lack of tact), you can focus on the multiplayer aspect of Eve. Try to join or fund a corporation or alliance, set goals for that corp or alliance, and work towards that. Taking a piece of 0.0 for yourself, setting up POSes and the like. The downside is you have to coordinate with other people, some of whom might not have your same goals, expectations or dedication. Some will probably not be very nice people either. The up-side, from a game perspective, is that your goals will be in direct opposition with the goals of other individuals, so you'll never actually reach your intended goal, but will instead have to continue to strive towards that goal constantly. This puts the 'what now?' question to rest. If you don't feel like that is entertaining (and while some might disagree, I feel you're perfectly entitled to not share the same interests as others), there are other objectives you could aim towards from a PvE perspective. These, however, have to be made up by you. You could try to build a collection of faction ships and learn how to use them all, for instance. If you see missions as something fun, you could try to challenge yourself and run them in ships that are underpowered for them, like frigs in lvl 2 missions, cruisers in lvl 3 or even 4, etc. Essentialy, you've reached a point where acquiring 'tools' is no longer an objective in and of itself. You now have to find a way to entertain yourself with the tools you have, without a clear 'progression' to guide you. If you can't think of anything to do, then it may simply be time to move on and leave Eve. I am, of course, forced by forum rules to ask for your stuff if you chose that particular path =P. So yeah, I rambled a lot and didn't actually offer much of an answer, sorry about that :P As for whoever said 'post with your main', please take the time to grow an imagination and some reasoning skills. I M'Aspy is a really unwieldly name. Maybe there's a hidden meaning to it? Hmm... I M'Aspy... I 'MAspy... I'M Aspy? Was curious, so I checked. There indeed is an Aspy in the game, that was created on 2003.09.10 06:00:00. That would seem to correspond with how long he said he's been playing. So... he is already broadcasting who his main is.
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.30 02:58:00 - [25] LvL 5 missions would seriosuly increase inflation. The prices of the most expensive items would go up so fast that you'd be forced to do lvl 5 missions just to aquire decent items like implant sets or faction gear. (unless they where seeded in lvl missions) other than that, lvl 5 missions are actually one of the better points to come from this thread.
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.09.30 03:28:00 - [26] Edited by: Torquemanda Corteaz on 30/09/2006 03:30:23 I don't see how you could think that the capital class ships were intended to be used in missions? dreadnaught - high calibre slow tracking weapons, siege mode... heavy hitters to kill poses better? only half decent mission runner wouldve been a moros carrier - ship hangars, module hangars, fighters can warp away and be assigned to another player? logistical ships for fleet warfare The logical progression of your character as CCP intends (hell they try their best subtley force it on you) to get your butt out of empire into 0.0 and play with OTHER people, the only alternative is manufacturing. Capital ships were never meant as the progression from battleships they were designed as tools with specific functions. Thats why most people still do LvL4s with battleships and why fleet battles aren't between massive fleets of carriers and dreadnaughts and nothing else battleships are the tool of the empire mission runner, and practically everyone else you want something else you have to go smaller, not bigger. I'm sorry for your waste, but i think you have only yourself to blame for it
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.30 04:23:00 - [27] Originally by: I M'Aspy I don't want everything and this isn't a whine. I've got battleship 5, tanking skills at 5, weapon skills at 5 etc... What am I working towards? Courage I? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.30 04:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Shaikar Edited by: Shaikar on 30/09/2006 02:49:26 Originally by: Ediz Daxx Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 30/09/2006 00:21:24 Boohoo? This isnt WoW, not everyone can have everything. I just have to point out that in WoW only the "elite" big raiding guilds get everything. So what you actually meant to say is "this is like WoW!". Most of the player base in WoW only get to rot, unable to access most of the end game content in any meaningful way. the fact that NPC corp members who basicly play solo, have capships, prove that you DON't have to be a powergaming freak to have 'everything'. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.09.30 04:47:00 - [29] Edited by: Angry Alt on 30/09/2006 04:52:08 I still cannot get past the whole CCP has been touting PvP as long as the game has been here. To paraphrase CCP "We give the players the tools, they choose what to do with them". Cap ships are afaik the only ships that are restricted from doing missions. So much for the CCP 'sandbox'. Again, there shouldn't be an "I Win" button for missions, however at least give those who have spent the time and isk to use these ships a PvE avenue. At this time, Capital Ships are the only types that are totally rebuked from missions, where's the 'sandbox' now? Gone. CCP has instituted an arbitrary artificial limit on how PvE players can advance. No matter how much you or CCP believes PvP is the be all and end all of EVE, it's not. Ask the 80%+ of empire dwellers. Why do you think the serious majority of people in EVE are in empire? Maybe a big chunk of people don't want to be forced into PvP? I'm fine with "nerfing" people from farming missions, but my main point is to allow those who have trained and spent the ISK and time to train for a Cap Ship to have something OTHER than PvP to do as a living. EVE as a sandbox, maybe in the past. Now, if you don't want/can't PvP all the time, your training has gone awry and unless you PvP. Your carrier/cap ship training time/ISK has been mostly wasted. CCP should practice what they preach and provide the tools for PvErs the means to make a living and not only in 0.0 fleet battles. Encouraging people toward a playstyle is one thing, forcing them is a whole other. Advertising "do what you want" and then artifically imposing limits on a legitimate playstyle, without any alternative, smacks of favoritism - toward the MINORITY of players. Put up or shut up really. If you 'claim' to be a sandbox in which people can play. Restricting a playstyle without an alternative just reinforces that CCP has no grasp on their playerbase. If a HUGE percentage (check the map) of people are staying in relatively 'safer space', is it CCP's vision to attempt to force people to play how they want, inspite of the 80-90% of people in empire smacking them in the face saying otherwise? Visions of how CCP think things should be is quaint versus the reality of the situation. Yes, it's their game. Sure they can do what they want. If the most significant portion of their playerbase is dissatisfied, are you catering more toward your ego rather than the playerbase/paying customers or just toward what you 'think it should be' despite the facts? Should EVE = WOW, heck no. Should CCP realize that a majority of people are NOT in 0.0 or low-sec? Heck yes. As much as CCP wants to force PvP down the throat of every player, it simply will not happen unless game mechanics change this. Now, I see CCP trying and failing horribly toward pushing everyone toward some vauge goal of total PvP. Where's the PvE advocates on CCP's staff, if there are any? If there's none, find someone who's passionate about the OTHER aspect of EVE that the majority of people are flocking toward. 30k users at once is seriously sweet for one cluster. Realizing that a little more attention to PvE would probably triple that (yes, more targets for you PvPrs :P), would be a huge step. It seems you're all stuck in 'our way or the highway' thinking. Check out your playerbase and maybe, think what a majority of the playerbase desires before shoving what you the dev team decides is the way it should be down our throats.
Angry Alt	Posted - 2006.09.30 04:59:00 - [30] Edited by: Angry Alt on 30/09/2006 05:00:59 Originally by: Pattern Clarc LvL 5 missions would seriosuly increase inflation. The prices of the most expensive items would go up so fast that you'd be forced to do lvl 5 missions just to aquire decent items like implant sets or faction gear. (unless they where seeded in lvl missions) other than that, lvl 5 missions are actually one of the better points to come from this thread. That's exactly why I proposed making L5 missions giving a little more reward than L4s but making them SIGNIFICANTLY harder. Overall it would probably be an ISK sink as losing just one Cap Ship is a big loss and will take a lot longer to recover from. The L5 rewards would be maybe 10-15% more than L4s. It will still should take a lot longer to do L5s than L4s. It will most likely take Cap Ships + support or a couple Cap Ships to beat an L5, but with marginal increases to L4 missions, each participant won't see a huge gain compared to L4s.



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