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Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 0	Posted - 2015.02.09 21:40:38 - [1] - Quote Hello fellow players! I've come to the point where I can buy a freighter. I am considering two options - Charon or Providence. I dunno which one to choose. I've already read a bunch of articles 'bout freighters and made some calculations in EFT but what I want to know is which one of them is going to withstand more beating before she eventually goes down in flames. Charon has greater shield which regenerates itself over time, thus being able to accept more damage. As we know, you do not have to repair your shield for ISK, just dock into the station and voila. Providence has smaller shield, but much greater armor. BUT when armor gets damaged you can't repair it on your own for free unless you have a friend or alt with remote armor repairer. What are the odds of survivng a gank? Let's say you survived one. Charon's shield would withstand much more beating than Providence's would. Let's say you were dealt 50.000 DMG. That would left Charon with some shield left, but Providence would suffer around 37k armor damage, which would have to be repaired in station for large amount of ISK or with a help of the above mentioned "friends". Hope I made myself clear :) English is not my first language. So which one would you go for taking above into consideration? Cheers! JV
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 233	Posted - 2015.02.09 22:19:03 - [2] - Quote If someone wants your freighter that bad I'd don't know that you're going to stop them with the difference between the Charon vs Providence EHP. I'd say a quicker align time would be more valuable. I have a Providence and use Reinforced Bulkhead II's when I want maximum tank, but I frequently mix in Adaptive Nano Plating II's because they add a lot of EHP using armor resistances without decreasing cargo capacity. I don't know of a low slot module that you could use in the Charon to increase EHP. Consider using implants if you want to increase your EHP or align time. HG-100x, EM-70x. TL;DR: Go with the one you think looks the best -- you'll be looking at it a lot because it moves so slow.
Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 0	Posted - 2015.02.09 22:27:05 - [3] - Quote Thank you for your reply. I know that Providence looks best not only to me ;) but what bothers me is her shield. 12500 is not much and it regenerates much slower to Charon's (almost 5 times). According to EFT Charon can regen 49hp/s, Providence only 10hp/s. Does it make such a difference in Eve world situation? PS. I've already checked all the variants of fittings with Adaptive Nano Plating II and Reinforced Bulkheads II. Providence has more EHP, but that shield...
Paranoid Loyd 3818	Posted - 2015.02.09 22:39:50 - [4] - Quote You should always take the one that has the most tank. Shield and it's recharge are irrelevant. The name of the game is not getting caught, if you get caught you are dead, in that respect tank is irrelevant. (It is rare a group large enough to gank freighters will not have enough DPS to counter whatever tank you have) Tank is relevant in attempting to not be the easiest target. (If I am scanning multiple freighters and have to choose one, I will choose the one with no tank or anti-tank (cargo expanders) instead of tanked one) You should not fly a freighter unless you have an extra account or a friend that can web warp your freighter. (This is how you don't get caught.) "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 0	Posted - 2015.02.09 22:53:59 - [5] - Quote Thanks Loyd. I guess I will go with the Providence beauty then. It's faster and has more EHP than Charon. Maybe one day I'll get myself Charon as well. Cheers!
Triksterism Rectal Pandemonium The Volition Cult 14	Posted - 2015.02.10 00:19:28 - [6] - Quote Providence because it's the sexiest. Charon because it holds the most m3.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 941	Posted - 2015.02.10 02:27:27 - [7] - Quote my charon pilot instead flys a rapier to move my providence pilot around. that said I can't honestly remember the last time I even undocked in a freighter, I should probably just move that to jita to sell... @ChainsawPlankto
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.02.10 10:58:05 - [8] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: You should always take the one that has the most tank. Shield and it's recharge are irrelevant. Tank is not relevant! If they think you are worth to gank, you will die. It will just take 2 or 3 ships more. I have never heared of a freighter that survived because of some thousand EHP. I would recommend charon because of Cargo. If you do not plan to ship mass cargo a lot, take the much better looking woodlouse. ;)
Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 0	Posted - 2015.02.10 10:59:39 - [9] - Quote Thank you all for your contribution. I really appreciate it. Just go myself the Providence. Hope she will serve me well. I figured out that she will benefit most from fitting 3 Adaptive Nano Platings II or 2 ANP II and one Expanded Cargohold II. Is it worth grinding Armor Compensations to level V? EFT shows that Freighters have less EHP when these skills are trained to V than when to IV. Why is that?
Black Pedro Yammerschooner 596	Posted - 2015.02.10 12:23:02 - [10] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: Tank is not relevant! If they think you are worth to gank, you will die. It will just take 2 or 3 ships more. I have never heared of a freighter that survived because of some thousand EHP. That's because you won't hear from the guy who got away safely. Tanking works because either the gankers will not have enough ships to pop you (unlikely), or you are too tanked to be a profitable gank so they won't even try in the first place, or as Paranoid Loyd said, you made yourself a less attractive target than the next guy who the gankers chose over you. Tank is extremely relevant and will keep some gankers away, but please, continue flying your cargo fit Charon if you want, AFK if possible. Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.

Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 0	Posted - 2015.02.10 12:43:25 - [11] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: That's because you won't hear from the guy who got away safely. In fact, sometimes you do: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1w5clv/never_give_up_tale_of_a_freighter/ Well, he had lost his freighter, but in the end he won.
To mare Advanced Technology 393	Posted - 2015.02.10 17:37:39 - [12] - Quote Joycelyn Valentine wrote: Thank you for your reply. I know that Providence looks best not only to me ;) but what bothers me is her shield. 12500 is not much and it regenerates much slower to Charon's (almost 5 times). According to EFT Charon can regen 49hp/s, Providence only 10hp/s. Does it make such a difference in Eve world situation? PS. I've already checked all the variants of fittings with Adaptive Nano Plating II and Reinforced Bulkheads II. Providence has more EHP, but that shield... consider that when you get ganked you die in a couple of cycle shield regen is useless, if you really want a tanky freighter buy a obelisk and fit it w bulkheads, other than that its just a matter of what looks the best for you.
Shelom Severasse Burning Alder 50	Posted - 2015.02.10 17:47:25 - [13] - Quote Joycelyn Valentine wrote: Thank you for your reply. I know that Providence looks best not only to me ;) but what bothers me is her shield. 12500 is not much and it regenerates much slower to Charon's (almost 5 times). According to EFT Charon can regen 49hp/s, Providence only 10hp/s. Does it make such a difference in Eve world situation? PS. I've already checked all the variants of fittings with Adaptive Nano Plating II and Reinforced Bulkheads II. Providence has more EHP, but that shield... if you are in the process of being ganked, 50hp/s is peanuts and will not matter.
Justin Zaine 164	Posted - 2015.02.11 05:34:08 - [14] - Quote Loyd's post was bang on. /thread Wheeeeeee
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.02.11 08:14:18 - [15] - Quote Black Pedro wrote: 1) That's because you won't hear from the guy who got away safely. 2) Tanking works because either the gankers will not have enough ships to pop you (unlikely), 3) or you are too tanked to be a profitable gank 4) Tank is extremely relevant and will keep some gankers away, but please, continue flying your cargo fit Charon if you want, AFK if possible. 1) because that happens so rarely it just don't matters. 2) Exactly, but this can be the case for Expanded Cargohold fitted Ships as well. A single Tornado will never plop them. 3) This has nothing to do with the tank. It's a matter of brain. 4) Yes, I will do. Because hauling around Tritanium and low value minerals is seldomly breaking 1.5B ISK and each of this transports gives me more money the more cargo I have. Joycelyn Valentine wrote: Well, he had lost his freighter, but in the end he won. A very nice story, but he lost 230M ISK or so (what's insurance fee for an Obelisk, 80M ISK?). He won in experience and well done with buying a second Fenrir! In addition this happened before freighters were patches. Check their killboard. They immediately stopped when Kronos was announce with details Why? Because you can now even tank Charons much higher than before. Either you fly Obelisk or Charon. If somebody finds you worth to gank, they will gank you, but when I haul more expensive stuff (nowadays due to allowed hyperdunking not more than 2B ISK on a bulkhead freighter) I don't do it without Bulkheads and break 303k omni EHP even on a Charon is quite costly. If somebody can break this, they can break 347 omni EHP on a Providence as well. @Joycelyn: Most EHP on a Providence you get from Bulkheads, not ANPs! But I don't know what you meant with "most benefit from". :)
Uppsy Daisy Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 636	Posted - 2015.02.11 09:31:22 - [16] - Quote Best tank is Providence with 3 deadspace adaptive nano platings and a set of slave implants. It is less likely that you will be attacked if you fit these, because there are plenty of other easier targets. However, as others have said even the best tank will not stop a determined group of gankers if there are enough of them. E.g. https://zkillboard.com/kill/44195974/
HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.02.11 09:41:48 - [17] - Quote with A-type deadspace platings you have on a standard providence 338k omni EHP, with bulkheads 347k omni EHP
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 40	Posted - 2015.02.11 10:44:08 - [18] - Quote I'd prefer an Obelisk, if that ship even considered other that Provi and Charon.
Joycelyn Valentine NooNames 1	Posted - 2015.02.11 11:36:43 - [19] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: @Joycelyn: Most EHP on a Providence you get from Bulkheads, not ANPs! But I don't know what you meant with "most benefit from". :) What I meant by saying "most benefit from" was that Providence will benefit more from 2 Adaptive Nano Platings II and one Expanded Cargohold II than 2 Reinforced Bulkheads II and one Exp Cargohold II taking into consoderation Armor-Cargo ratio. With 2 ANP II and Exp Cargo II EHP: 242k Cargo: 665k with 2 Rein Bulks II and Exp Cargo II EHP: 259k Cargo: 527k so for just 17k ehp less I get 138k more cargo space. In case I need to haul more stuff. Anywas, it goes without saying the most tank I will get from 3 Reinforced Bulks II and most cargo from 3 Exp Cargos II. But when I take Armor-Cargo ratio into consideration I think this is the way to go. This is what I came up with: Freighters Stats
Paranoid Loyd 3849	Posted - 2015.02.12 14:34:16 - [20] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: with A-type deadspace platings you have on a standard providence ALL V 338k omni EHP, with bulkheads 347k omni EHP With a full slave set this is different, but it's a nice investment in additon, but is probably the best tank you can have as most people would not expect or can scan that kind of tank But nowadays with Hyperdunking it isn't only a matter of chars anymore, it's more a matter of time, so even 462k EHP against Antimatter may not be enough. And the above kill just showed, that code just wanted to make an example of that even a max tanked Providence can not resist. But we all know that. I usually cross Uedama 2x per day at the minimum in Charons and never had an issue so far, but for sure one day I will be on the list as well. You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!

HoruSeth Republic University Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2015.02.12 15:09:06 - [21] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. So you want to tell me, that you are never afk for one or two or some minutes? And whenever somebody would kill you exactly that time in HiSec you would comment that with: "I deserved to die at this point!" -->
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1579	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:32:34 - [22] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: HoruSeth wrote: with A-type deadspace platings you have on a standard providence ALL V 338k omni EHP, with bulkheads 347k omni EHP With a full slave set this is different, but it's a nice investment in additon, but is probably the best tank you can have as most people would not expect or can scan that kind of tank But nowadays with Hyperdunking it isn't only a matter of chars anymore, it's more a matter of time, so even 462k EHP against Antimatter may not be enough. And the above kill just showed, that code just wanted to make an example of that even a max tanked Providence can not resist. But we all know that. I usually cross Uedama 2x per day at the minimum in Charons and never had an issue so far, but for sure one day I will be on the list as well. You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. Can't the bumper just keep bumnping you for however long is needed even if you are logged?
Paranoid Loyd 3850	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:44:18 - [23] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: HoruSeth wrote: with A-type deadspace platings you have on a standard providence ALL V 338k omni EHP, with bulkheads 347k omni EHP With a full slave set this is different, but it's a nice investment in additon, but is probably the best tank you can have as most people would not expect or can scan that kind of tank But nowadays with Hyperdunking it isn't only a matter of chars anymore, it's more a matter of time, so even 462k EHP against Antimatter may not be enough. And the above kill just showed, that code just wanted to make an example of that even a max tanked Providence can not resist. But we all know that. I usually cross Uedama 2x per day at the minimum in Charons and never had an issue so far, but for sure one day I will be on the list as well. You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. Can't the bumper just keep bumnping you for however long is needed even if you are logged? The range of a gank catalyst is very short and they are very slow, you would have to be a very skilled bumper to keep them close enough to the cats to apply your damage before Concord comes back to the grid. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Paranoid Loyd 3850	Posted - 2015.02.12 16:48:33 - [24] - Quote HoruSeth wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. So you want to tell me, that you are never afk for one or two or some minutes? And whenever somebody would kill you exactly that time in HiSec you would comment that with: "I deserved to die at this point!" --> Yes. If I go AFK, I dock or cloak. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 3690	Posted - 2015.02.12 23:50:53 - [25] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: HoruSeth wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: You have to be afk or logged off for hyperdunking to work, if you do either of these things you deserve to lose your ship. So you want to tell me, that you are never afk for one or two or some minutes? And whenever somebody would kill you exactly that time in HiSec you would comment that with: "I deserved to die at this point!" --> Yes. If I go AFK, I dock or cloak. Me too, absolutely. Never once sat afk in space in 18 months playing this crazy game. Sometimes I take a risk in a safespot but I feel bad about it. :) It's funny, it's like guys like Horu are playing a completely different game than guys like Loyd and I. Excep they're not, so sometimes they explode. :) Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Paranoid Loyd 3857	Posted - 2015.02.13 00:04:28 - [26] - Quote I think the difference is you and I accept the game for what it is. Others tend to not accept what it is and complain that it should be changed or bring RL morals into the equation when they simply do not apply. If you choose to play the game that way fine, but understand that no one is in any way obligated to play the way you think the game should be played. They are only obligated to abide by the game's rules. High Sec is safer but not in anyway safe. Once you come to terms with that, being AFK is simply not an option and is down right idiotic when you are in a valuable ship that has no chance of defending itself. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Amely Miles Aliastra Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2015.02.13 09:49:07 - [27] - Quote i highly suggest having a providence (fast and aligns fast) and then not putting more then 1bil worth of goods in it. also with the invention of "Hyperdunking" i highly suggest making a crapton of book marks in uedama and niarja for that time your able to get up to speed but bumped out of alignment for next gate so you can warp to something else also always have a webbing alt and for highly active times for you if you want to be overly cautious a logi Favorite Quotes: In Space No one flings Poo!! Yes that is a Banana in my Pocket http://spacemp.net


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