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soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.03.13 11:44:38 -
[1] - Quote
There is a real issue of correlation being incorrectly viewed as causality here. The correlation between players leaving the game having not joined PCs does not mean there is any type of causal relationship. I can think of many explanations from actual exposure to new players in rookie help as to why correlation exists but no causality. Many of them have to do with the most recent MMO player profile.
Newer MMO players in general have no intent of ever staying with any MMO for the long term. They view MMOs as console games to be played to an some end point and then leaving and playing another one. The tools that many of us see to create community they see as just chat added to their console game and cringe at the idea of cooperative game play with others. This is exhibited several ways. They view subscriptions as being charged again and again for the same console game content, not as investing in continuing quality environment. They want a single price to play like a console game, or they want FTP, or they want to work in game to play. Just go watch rookie chat for any length of time. There is a constant stream of how can I earn enough to get plex to leave trial and never have to pay the subscription price? They want to know why in the world a game would allow solo WH exploration or solo .2 sec mining to have the chance of losing their gear they have spent ever isk to get. They are leaving because they were always going to leave and they aren't joining PCs because they were always going to leave and they never viewed PC play as part of completing the console content. EVE Online is absolutely the worse game for this new type of MMO wannabe console player.
Now as far as my own reasons for not joining PCs in the same fashion as I have in the past.
I have come left and come back to EVE many times since 2007, in the past my character that I intended to get the most out of game immersion has been my main and has been the one that would join a LS or NS PC.
I have been in NS many times and never had to provide anything more than the old limited API, corporate security was a matter of roles and through interaction with and inclusion of the entire PC member base.
But this is no longer an environment where that is the case. PCs that have no knowledge or willingness to properly use roles are insisting on full APIs well because others do it, so we should to, is complete BS. They don't know what they actually need vs what they don't because they don't know what to do with any of it. But there is a huge risk of what they could do with the information if things don't go well and you go separate ways later. Things that had nothing to do with corp security can then be used against you later because they got the full API and know a lot about your style of play, what you own, what you do, where you live.
Then there is the whole fact that having any corp history in and of itself is now a dangerous thing. If you joined a corp that didn't work out for any reason, that corp's CEO and directors can say whatever they want about you when you try to join another corp. You better join the right corp the first time because your character will not get a second chance without being tainted.
So today the choices are try and join a hyper-paranoid corp that is going to meta-scrub every second of your history and treat you like a criminal from day one or give way too much information to people who don't know what to do with it until they want to screw YOU. Hence, why people frequently post on alts that will never do anything in game because just posting can have negative consequences later to joining a corp.
So now my sad undesired solution is that my high SP characters that should be in PC but because they have any history at all (that would not have affected my play now) will now be in NPC corps where they will not have to risk having information about their activities abused in the future. I have started a brand new account with a brand new character with an API that will essentially be devoid of informational value. I neither want to steal nor AWOX, but this is a game and I will not subject myself to a rectal exam to join a corp. Corps should be using the proper tools for corporate security, roles and knowing your members. And if you are too big to know and involve your members, well what kind of community is that anyway. |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:00:36 -
[2] - Quote
Kuhaku Blank wrote:im a returning player after years ago and 1 of the corps I applied to for FW, I had to apply online, apply in the game, wait in their public channel to be called for an interview then go to their mumble and do the interview.
A Wormhole corp I applied to at the same time has stated that I am suspicious because I have 2 untrained charcters on my account from way back when I was toying with different weapons before I quit which marks me as a spy.
And in the meantime they now both know all the details of your activities, assets and entire history of email in EVE, plus now if you apply again somewhere else if the WH corp accused you of being an attempted spy through eve-mail that will be forever viewable by others that you give your full API to - and they probably won't even look further, they will accept that inaccurate assessment.
This type of activity will be the number one reason for returning players staying in npc and possibly leaving the game again. The cause has nothing to do with returning players not trying to join pc but not being permitted to join out of paranoia. |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:06:03 -
[3] - Quote
Angharad Neve wrote:They should make it so you can only be a member of an NPC corp for say one month. After that you have to join a player run corp of your own choice, start your own corp, or get syphoned into a holding corp with same characteristics as a player run corp. Player run corps are more fun anyway. At the very least they usually have less taxes than NPC corps.
Yes, because the sandbox you want should be the sandbox everyone else has to play in. |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 14:12:30 -
[4] - Quote
Angharad Neve wrote:
EVE University, Brave Newbies, Red vs, Blue, Factional Warfare corps. Just four solutions to your problems.
E-UNI was one of my best experiences ever in EVE and likely kept me around longer because of what I learned (and that knowledge probably even keeps me coming back). Though I do wonder now how many corps would view that history negatively nowadays... |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 05:05:40 -
[5] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:The definition of griefing is deliberate harassment of other players.
I think decs with the intent of causing others grief is childish, moronic and generally done in a cowardly way. BUT you make a statement like it is a universal truth. CCP has a player harassment policy and use of a war-dec mechanics is not considered harassment by CCP so your universal definition fails. It is your definition and maybe the definition of other victims, but not THE definition.
While I don't care for griefing-decs and if there was a viable solution that would not diminish the game I would support it, but generically asking for HS war-decs to be nerfed is not a viable solution. I wish nerf fans would at least describe specifically what they want to see changed that would decrease grief-decs while keeping HS decs viable and additive to the game.
I don't think war-decs are a substantial reason why new players don't join PCs. The players that leave PCs and return to NPCs may count that reason significantly among their reasons, but players avoiding war-decs is usually done after being exposed to one and that activity not being what they want to do. I think there are many other reasons that new players don't end up joining PCs. Large among them it takes a lot of work to find corps because most recruiting is done out of game and recruiters frequently focus their pitches on experienced players.
I think the players need to do more to make joining PCs enticing to new players and to find out what is enticing to them is done in game while they are still in the NPC corp not in the recruiting forum where most of them will never go. I don't think many recruiters outside the large player mentoring corps even know what would be enticing to the new player to join.
I don't see this as a game mechanic that needs to be changed by CCP, I think any perceived lack of new players not joining PCs falls on the the experienced player base. IMO the experienced player base is not as welcoming as it used to be. Experienced players practically begrudge new players in their universe.
As an example gankers used to engage their targets afterward and explain what made them a target and what made them easy. Now they just post the kill mail and move on. I haven't been ganked in HS in a very long time because of that type of game play instruction from experienced players in the past.
i know many carebears ***** and moan about CODE and James 315 - but when I read their bios and links, I know what they are doing, why they think it is worth doing and i can adapt to their presence with very little effect on any portion of my game play that I want to avoid them. I wouldn't find enjoyment doing what they do and I would help rookies adapt to their presence.
But i would not support anything that would make tearfuls able to do what they really want to do when they complain about "griefers", fly non-tanked mining/mission maxed ships with NO risk. There should be no place in EVE where those ship fittings are kept perfectly safe from the environment. Hell even HS belt rats are way too weak in my opinion. I should not be able to take a venture to a .5 system and tank the rats long enough for two T1 drones with little skills to eliminate three of them and just keep mining like nothing is happening. Which I have been able to do right out of career missions and a week of SP with no main support for money, ships, skills, etc. (after all i have to keep that character clean for full api PC background checks.) |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 05:20:44 -
[6] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:
Actually he's right. EVE is player vs. player. Everything you do in the game is player vs. player. The play style where player vs. player is unwanted or undesired is not something that the game design encourages. There is no activity in the game where PVP is disallowed.
Indeed, even players who claim they don't want PVP are competing against other players in HS for resources for the price of their mission loot and on and on. When that mission runner who claims they don't want to PVP undercuts someone .01 isk in the market they are engaging in PVP. That is a mechanic I would rather see changed than HS war-decs, there should be a mechanic that requires your desired price to buy or sell be at least some percentage different of the current best price by an average market price or the same price. .01 isk price competition is BS. I avoid giving .01 iskers my business. |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 05:29:56 -
[7] - Quote
tru nuff but my point is really that there are more annoying things in the game mechanics than the constant tears over HS war-decs. I hear more complaints in rookie help from rookies about their items not ever selling when they put in a better price to sell than about war-decs. In fact, I never hear a rookie in rookie help complaining about war-decs. The only time it is brought up is by vets. |
soicanforumpostsafely
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.15 10:58:50 -
[8] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:I think some sort of tweak to the wardec system that disincentivizes deccing corps low in SP and assets would solve the problem.
Yes, because that wouldn't result in SP and assets being parked in NPC corps at all......
Making low SP and low asset value PCs safe, will make PCs low SP and low asset value.
I can see the recruitment boards now "2.5 mill max SP, 100 mill max assets, keep your experienced and wealthy alts in the NPCs" |
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