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Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
5
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Posted - 2015.02.12 23:51:49 -
[1] - Quote
Given that CCP wants us to spread out to other systems (as implied by the industry changes), I was wondering why we don't have a cap on the number of buy/sell orders per station.
A number high enough to not kill null sec hubs and low enough to spread people out from Jita / Amarr and the like. Seems like a relatively easy change to implement.
The economy would initially freak out, but it would likely even out, perhaps even having some stations designated as ammo dumps and the like.
Thank you for your time. |
Ix Method
Shadows Legion
High-Sec Tomfoolery
402
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Posted - 2015.02.12 23:53:12 -
[2] - Quote
Because logistics is enough of a ******* nightmare as it is.
Just don't.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
720
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Posted - 2015.02.12 23:54:11 -
[3] - Quote
because tbh it is extremely convenient that i can just go to one station buy all my ships and fits then head back to faction warfare if i had to run around every time i lost a ship it would stop being worth it real fast
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Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
5
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Posted - 2015.02.12 23:58:42 -
[4] - Quote
This would actually be beneficial to low-sec/null-sec logistics, if the spread were wide enough. Not having market prices constantly compared to Jita's would affect prices enough that it could become distinctly worthwhile to produce in lower security spaces.
It would also have the benefit of more systems having more people and more movement of goods, which means more opportunity for conflict. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
82
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:09:16 -
[5] - Quote
If it's market orders per-toon-per-station, then just make more market alts. Keep all the market alts in the same station.
Achieves nothing, and infuriates traders.
If it's total market orders per-station, then just monopolise a station with your orders. Find market hub stations, put your important orders up, then fill the dtation with dummy orders that won't filled. You'll deny access to everyone else. That reduces market PVP.
I think it's a bad idea, no matter how you implement it. |
Degren
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2493
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:12:25 -
[6] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:If it's market orders per-toon-per-station, then just make more market alts. Keep all the market alts in the same station.
Achieves nothing, and infuriates traders.
If it's total market orders per-station, then just monopolise a station with your orders. Find market hub stations, put your important orders up, then fill the dtation with dummy orders that won't filled. You'll deny access to everyone else. That reduces market PVP.
I think it's a bad idea, no matter how you implement it.
I'm curious how encouraging more stations to open up for trade would reduce market PvP
Hello, hello again.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3213
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:18:30 -
[7] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:This would actually be beneficial to low-sec/null-sec logistics, if the spread were wide enough. Not having market prices constantly compared to Jita's would affect prices enough that it could become distinctly worthwhile to produce in lower security spaces.
It would also have the benefit of more systems having more people and more movement of goods, which means more opportunity for conflict.
That isn't a benefit to logistics. It would be a tremendous nerf to logistics, as it would become impossible to buy all the stuff you wanted in one place, you'd need dedicated truck driver alts in highsec to fetch all your stuff and carry it to your jumping off point.
This would be a massive headache with no upsides. |
Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
9
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:26:42 -
[8] - Quote
More conflict, more interactive trade, greater incentive to build closer to the "jumping off" point, diversification. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
720
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:40:56 -
[9] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:More conflict, more interactive trade, greater incentive to build closer to the "jumping off" point, diversification.
More conflict? if anything this would reduce it as i now become much more risk averse even when flying a frigate because i don't want to have to deal with the head ache of jumping around everywhere just to fit my kestrel every time i lose it.
rather than right now i buy all of my ships/fits in one place jump them out to my home station and am able to get right back into the fight when i die
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
82
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:42:44 -
[10] - Quote
Degren wrote:Rawketsled wrote:If it's market orders per-toon-per-station, then just make more market alts. Keep all the market alts in the same station.
Achieves nothing, and infuriates traders.
If it's total market orders per-station, then just monopolise a station with your orders. Find market hub stations, put your important orders up, then fill the dtation with dummy orders that won't filled. You'll deny access to everyone else. That reduces market PVP.
I think it's a bad idea, no matter how you implement it. I'm curious how encouraging more stations to open up for trade would reduce market PvP
Simple. You can deadzone empire stations (at least when it comes to the market). Literally block market access to everyone. 1,000 sell orders of 1 Tritanium at $1,000,000,000 ISK per unit.
Remeber that not every system has as many stations as Jita - for example Dodixie would be comparatively easy. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3474
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:46:06 -
[11] - Quote
There is entirely too much potential for player manipulation here, nevermind the restriction being fairly artificial in nature. I would downvote artificial restrictions but since you can't you'll have to settle for a -1. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14974
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Posted - 2015.02.13 00:51:49 -
[12] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:This would actually be beneficial to low-sec/null-sec logistics, if the spread were wide enough.
You are making it impossible to host both defensive and aggressive assets in a staging system. How is that helping us?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Soltys
15
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Posted - 2015.02.13 18:20:34 -
[13] - Quote
Side effect it would have, is that Jita flippers might gang up and chase and pod you (or more likely hire best merc corps out there to do it) untile the end of [eve] universe. Hell I'd throw good few billions myself for the case.
Well, jokes aside - it would kill station margin trading. Few consistent places to dump stuff on buy orders (missionsers, pvpers, gankers, everyone) and get fresh stuff from sell orders would be gone.
Aside other issues already mentioned.
Quote:Given that CCP wants us to spread out to other systems (as implied by the industry changes), I was wondering why we don't have a cap on the number of buy/sell orders per station.
Do they really ? Looking at the changes they did in the past (to industry in particular). |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Eternal Pretorian Alliance
65
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Posted - 2015.02.13 19:31:04 -
[14] - Quote
-1, No thx. |
Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
9
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Posted - 2015.02.13 19:52:01 -
[15] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Degren wrote:Rawketsled wrote:If it's market orders per-toon-per-station, then just make more market alts. Keep all the market alts in the same station.
Achieves nothing, and infuriates traders.
If it's total market orders per-station, then just monopolise a station with your orders. Find market hub stations, put your important orders up, then fill the dtation with dummy orders that won't filled. You'll deny access to everyone else. That reduces market PVP.
I think it's a bad idea, no matter how you implement it. I'm curious how encouraging more stations to open up for trade would reduce market PvP Simple. You can deadzone empire stations (at least when it comes to the market). Literally block market access to everyone. 1,000 sell orders of 1 Tritanium at $1,000,000,000 ISK per unit. Remeber that not every system has as many stations as Jita - for example Dodixie would be comparatively easy.
How many stations are there total, among high low and null? How many orders can a single character have? Obviously with a system like this, 3 month orders would be gone, and 1000 would be substantially lower than the number of orders I was thinking, that's entirely too strict and would be maddening for null orders.
baltec1 wrote:You are making it impossible to host both defensive and aggressive assets in a staging system. How is that helping us?
I am legitimately curious what you mean by this, as you've been the only person who hasn't basically said "that'd be more work." As I said, I'd want the limit to basically curtail focus on Jita/Amarr while not affecting null markets, so I'm genuinely interested to hear what you say.
As for the idea itself, it essentially stems from a lack of local production/resource gathering outside moon-goo and cap production. Having regional supply easier than long distance boosts the value of production and local resource gathering. This would necessitate having a local logistics infrastructure, rather than jump freightering with an army of alts from Jita<-->Null.
I understand that's a huge adjustment and could be a pain in the ass with growing pains.
What I don't understand is why people prefer the current Jita system, when it provides no depth. It's incredibly similar to just having a central auction house with a logistical backbone kind of slapped on, rather than a logistic/trade system that actually requires any kind of depth. Null production is still mostly ****, three years after the issue was supposed to be tackled. Jita is still the central hub. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1408
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Posted - 2015.02.13 20:22:12 -
[16] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:Given that CCP wants us to spread out to other systems (as implied by the industry changes), I was wondering why we don't have a cap on the number of buy/sell orders per station.
A number high enough to not kill null sec hubs and low enough to spread people out from Jita / Amarr and the like. Seems like a relatively easy change to implement.
The economy would initially freak out, but it would likely even out, perhaps even having some stations designated as ammo dumps and the like.
Thank you for your time.
Are you trying to create a mass exodus from Eve?
What a #%!$@#! pain in the ass it would be just to fit a new ship. (Sure, in the early days of my Eve career I fit plenty of ships by flying from station to station, but these days I'd much rather just go to a trade hub and buy everythng in one place. Especially considering the number of different shiptypes I can and do fly with the skillpoints I have now.)
Maybe you see it as being advantageous to you as an industrialist or market player? For everyone else it would suck.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1408
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Posted - 2015.02.13 20:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hey! Ass wasn't filtered out! 
edit: ass ass ass ass ass...ok, I'm done now. 
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
9
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Posted - 2015.02.13 20:26:44 -
[18] - Quote
Tyranis Marcus wrote:Maybe you see it as being advantageous to you as an industrialist or market player? For everyone else it would suck.
I'm actually a null nomad, so this would be economically quite difficult for me...unless people started opening up shops in more NPC null stations. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3216
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Posted - 2015.02.13 20:38:54 -
[19] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:More conflict, more interactive trade, greater incentive to build closer to the "jumping off" point, diversification.
What conflict is there in an NPC corp freighter jumping around highsec trying desperately to buy all the parts to put together a fleet BS for null?
How could t2 production actually happen without a vaguely centralised marketplace for regional materials to be traded at?
Where is the fun in requiring me to go fifty jumps to fit every ship I try to import, or forcing me to maintain a production, mining, invention and god knows what else alt just to keep myself in ships?
How is increasing frustration and time requirements for even the most basic of things an improvement?
Why do you think we won't game the hell out of this and lock down entire regional markets? |
Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
9
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Posted - 2015.02.13 21:26:26 -
[20] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Ankhsu wrote:More conflict, more interactive trade, greater incentive to build closer to the "jumping off" point, diversification. What conflict is there in an NPC corp freighter jumping around highsec trying desperately to buy all the parts to put together a fleet BS for null?
Hopefully, this headache would be avoided by having a greater incentive to produce in null. As for the NPC corp freighter themselves, more time in space means more targets for gankers, albeit not in a centralized location.
Quote:How could t2 production actually happen without a vaguely centralised marketplace for regional materials to be traded at?
Incredibly good question. I suspect that would be a huge portion of null to null shipping and would drive up the cost of T2 production significantly, putting more emphasis on T1 ships with T2 components, ala battleships/battlecruisers.
Quote:Where is the fun in requiring me to go fifty jumps to fit every ship I try to import, or forcing me to maintain a production, mining, invention and god knows what else alt just to keep myself in ships?
You're suggesting dispersing Jita would force you to make more alts? Do you make new alts for production everytime you deploy and there's a brief delay in JF support? No, in all likelihood your fellow goons would be more than happy to produce in null with null materials.
Quote:Why do you think we won't game the hell out of this and lock down entire regional markets?
I guess I don't see a problem with doing that. Obviously it's many times easier than Burn Jita, and reduction of max order time would be necessary, but given the number of stations in the game I fail to see how that would be anything but amusing for a time. |
Ix Method
Shadows Legion
High-Sec Tomfoolery
405
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Posted - 2015.02.13 23:53:46 -
[21] - Quote
Ankhsu wrote:This would actually be beneficial to low-sec/null-sec logistics, if the spread were wide enough. Not having market prices constantly compared to Jita's would affect prices enough that it could become distinctly worthwhile to produce in lower security spaces.
It would also have the benefit of more systems having more people and more movement of goods, which means more opportunity for conflict.
That's an extremely rose-tinted view. More likely people on both sides, generally being lazy bastards, would just stop bothering
It's just a horrible sledgehammer of an idea that would grind the game to a halt. Sorry..
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
22
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Posted - 2015.02.14 00:12:32 -
[22] - Quote
It would reward effort to have market order skills apply on a per station basis. Instead of ~300 in each station though, it would be more along the lines of one market order per skill level. That would be x slots for Trade, x slots each for Retail to Tycoon. I think about 50 orders per station would be a nice round number.
It would certainly give me a reason to train remote market/lab update skills beyond level II.
Producers would have an incentive to drive up stocking in multiple systems, and source minerals as locally as possible.
Meta traders like me would be incentivized to spread ourselves out, but that would work out pretty curiously in the department of complementary goods, which refers to the need to have hybrid ammo on the market in order to sell hybrid guns. I imagine we would stock more thinly and abandon and relocate heavily competitive lines pretty quickly.
For coalitions, it would incentivize expansionist habits.
It would also very strongly make me want to see a return of the junk pile of yore.
As Jita clings on, you would probably see a surge of market alt accounts, which could be good for CCP's bottom line. |
Ankhsu
Friends and Pals
9
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Posted - 2015.02.14 20:51:33 -
[23] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:That's an extremely rose-tinted view. More likely people on both sides, generally being lazy bastards, would just stop bothering
It's just a horrible sledgehammer of an idea that would grind the game to a halt. Sorry..
In all likelihood, the only thing it would do to the lazy bastards in low/null is remove their need to import from Jita, reducing their overall work and need for a Jita alt, though that certainly makes the assumption that there are other people in null who like producing and mining. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
616
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Posted - 2015.02.14 21:49:33 -
[24] - Quote
Slot limits won't work, but you could implement a scaling tax similar to the Crius Industry changes to penalize too much trade activity in a single station or system.
Not really sure why you would want to do that though as the market would become less efficient and more inconvenient for everyone.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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