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Which T2 HAC should I shoot for?

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Jessia	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:09:00 - [1] Hello every1. ATM my character is around 9 months old and I'm starting to get into T2 ships. So far I have Minmatar AFs and Intys. I am interested in training for a HAC but I have noticed a trend with minmatar T2 ships and that is they cannot armor tank effectivley. ALL of my tanking skills are in armor right now. I litteraly don't have a shields tab in my charcater skill sheet. I'm wondering which race of HAC should I choose if I were going to pick one. I really don't want to go Amarr being a Minmatar and all(also don't like the ships). I was thinking either gallente or caldari. Most of my skills are in gunnery ATM so gallente would be a good choice because I already have alot of gunnery skills. But then again if I go caldari I would have a more well rounded character(skilled with missles and guns). We have all seen the power of the diemos but I haven't seen or heard to much about the cerebus. Is it a pretty good ship? I am a merc so I will most likely be using the ship on ops with the corpies. Any feed back will be great.
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:14:00 - [2] Nooo, not another vaginabond pilot! òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:15:00 - [3] vaga>cerebus>ishtar>zealot>deimos>muninn>eagle>sac
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:17:00 - [4] Edited by: MissileRus on 04/10/2006 06:18:54 nerf > vaga = useless SP boost muninn --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Jessia	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:18:00 - [5] So you think vaga is a good HAC? Yes I've seen it in action plunty of times but can it really tank a BS with one shield booster? Also I'm kinda looking for something with a little more versitility. Web, scram, ect.
Graalum Foundation	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Graalum on 04/10/2006 06:21:09 since its not a whole lot more training, you should also think about which recon ship you would perfer. Several of the recons are easily a match for a hac, and are excellent for gang pvp. It might also be worth knowing that vaga/cerb are both incredibly expensive, and this is definately a case of getting what you pay for.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:22:00 - [7] ALL caldari ships are natural shieldtankers - answear enough? ;] _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:23:00 - [8] Hey there... A couple tips for you (from a fellow merc) - HACs are expensive to PVP in. If you have access to them for a reduced cost then you may be able to circumvent that problem. The Cerberus is a decent PVP ship... but it is very expensive. Missiles can be frustrating in PVP... despite their advantages. The Vagabond is very expensive as well... and your lack of shield skills (which also rules out the Cerb) will make a Vagabond a tough choice... as it is frequently shield tanked. The Gallente HACs are both very, very good ships... with the Ishtar arguably being the single best HAC in the game... particularly for PVP. The Deimos has limitations... but once it's in range it is the highest DPS HAC in the game. As for Amarr... the Zealot is a very solid HAC, particularly in light of the fact that you want to armor tank. The Sacrilege is sort of the red-headed stepchild of HACs... but it can tank incredibly well. If I were you I'd lean toward Gallente and/or Amarr. It'll keep your skills streamlined and reduce wasted training time. Also, the Pilgrim and Curse (the Amarr recons) are both incredible ships... and training up for Amarr HACs would put you well onto the path of flying either of those nightmares. Also, keep in mind that you'll be training a racial cruiser to 5 in order to fly these... so it would also be advantageous to look at what cruisers you would enjoy flying. I rarely give advice... but in light of the fact that you are choosing to leave your chosen training path to pursue something new... going with Gallente and/or Amarr will keep you focused on the tanking side of things... what Gunnery skills you have are another matter entirely. Gallente is currently trendy for a reason. Give them a look. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Stealther God	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Tovarishch I rarely give advice... but in light of the fact that you are choosing to leave your chosen training path to pursue something new... going with Gallente and/or Amarr will keep you focused on the tanking side of things... what Gunnery skills you have are another matter entirely. Well I'm not totaly abondoning minmatar. I like minmatar BSs and t2 frigs. I'm just looking for a different race of HAC to train for.
Jessia	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:30:00 - [10] Bah Stealther God = Jessia. accidently posted with him srry
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:38:00 - [11] Fly Minmatar HACS and CBCs, stay away from Caldari. Caldari sucks. Cerb sucks, eagle sucks, Nighthawk sucks, Vulture sucks. Fly other ships goddamnit. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. Originally by: Oveur last 30 days had 2358 accounts banned.
Jessia	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Fly Minmatar HACS and CBCs, stay away from Caldari. Caldari sucks. Cerb sucks, eagle sucks, Nighthawk sucks, Vulture sucks. Fly other ships goddamnit. Mind explaining why caldari sux?
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.10.04 06:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Jessia Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Fly Minmatar HACS and CBCs, stay away from Caldari. Caldari sucks. Cerb sucks, eagle sucks, Nighthawk sucks, Vulture sucks. Fly other ships goddamnit. Mind explaining why caldari sux? My Guess? He flies them and doesn't want the demand going up.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.04 09:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Tovarishch The Deimos has limitations... but once it's in range it is the highest DPS HAC in the game. Where DPS means Damn Pathetic Ship
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.04 09:53:00 - [15] Why do so many people go for HAC when command ships are so much better? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Inqus Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:03:00 - [16] Edited by: Inqus on 04/10/2006 10:03:45 Edited by: Inqus on 04/10/2006 10:03:04 Quote: So far I have Minmatar AFs and Intys. I am interested in training for a HAC but I have noticed a trend with minmatar T2 ships and that is they cannot armor tank effectivley Its only the Vaga that ppl tend to shield tank because they want the lows filled with gyros and nanos/stabs. The munnin on the other hand is a pure armor tanker u can eather use it as a sniper with 720 ot a quite efficent Ac boat. But ofcouse the vagabond is mutch beter but cost about twice as mutch.
Dagnis The Priory	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:04:00 - [17] Damn posted with my alt
Hehulk FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Pottsey Why do so many people go for HAC when command ships are so much better? because while HACs are a pain in the ass to train, command ships are a nightmare. But I concure. Sleipnir > vagabond ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.10.04 10:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Pottsey Why do so many people go for HAC when command ships are so much better? Simple - HACs require a lot of SP to fly effectively, but Command Ships require even more. Not everyone has reached the stage where they can branch out their skill tree to train up the leadership and logistics requirements.
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:40:00 - [20] I thought skillpoints wise HACS and Command Ships where about the same. Still even those people who do have the skills points for command ships are not using them. I have to wonder why when command ships are cheap compared to HACs and better with more DPS and a better tank. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:49:00 - [21] Command Ship prices will go up when enough people have trained the skills. I love my Absolution and Damnation and will never look back :D Now recruiting!
R Dan Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Originally by: Pottsey Why do so many people go for HAC when command ships are so much better? Simple - HACs require a lot of SP to fly effectively, but Command Ships require even more. Not everyone has reached the stage where they can branch out their skill tree to train up the leadership and logistics requirements. Firstly define "better" CBC's are not know for being speedy or agile......but my Vagabond is :P and thats what I like. CommandBCs have the agility of a small space cow! Vulture/Nighthawk - dont seem to me as nice as my cerb is. maybe they are. maybe its just my perception. But my sleipnir sure makes short work of most things I come up against :D But I can understand why people havnt gone to CBC's as quickly as was expected..... The new players forum is full of people asking about starting attributes and nearly everyone has said dont bother about charisma - I too have the lowest charisma that was easily avaliable.. I think a base of 4 or 5... and I didnt bother with the learning skills for charisma either - certainly not to the level of the other attributes. CBC skill tree -even if you want the combat version (sleipnir rather than claymore) - requires a large number of skill points in a skill that uses charisma. meaning its very slow in comparison to most ship skill trees. I "lost" alot of skill points when I started on my leadership skills to be able to fly these beasts :D - worth it though (even if i wub my wagabond) I will save you, but make sure you bring beer - Wrangler and cAKe - Imaran I thought it was bREe, omgi'mgivingawaymodroomsecwetsftl - Cortes when come back ... bring PIE. Me like PIE. -Capsicum
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:55:00 - [23] Edited by: Ithildin on 04/10/2006 11:55:04 Command Ships has HAC as a prerequisite (alternatively logistics, which is a fairly useless skill unless you want to fly the gang-focused CBCs), so no, CBCs and HACs aren't similar in SP requirements. What you add on an Astarte compared to a Deimos: * Battlecruiser V * Squadron Command IV * Spaceship Command V The Eos is the same, but with the exception that you do not get a "free" ship skill while training for Eos. So, in closeing. STFU! Don't get more peole training CBCs! (I like the prices the way they are, thank you very much) - Three years old
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.04 11:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Pottsey I thought skillpoints wise HACS and Command Ships where about the same. Still even those people who do have the skills points for command ships are not using them. I have to wonder why when command ships are cheap compared to HACs and better with more DPS and a better tank. Don't Command Ships need all the skills that a HAC needs, plus a few Leadership skills on top? So regardless, if you're going for Command Ships, you may as well train for HAC's first, then do your leadership skills, so you have something nice to play in while you grind those nasty CHA based skills? ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.04 12:02:00 - [25] The real problem with CS is the abyssal agility of BCs. Which will improve with kali 1 and the release of the new BCs. Quite likely that prices will increase then.
Pottsey Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.04 12:15:00 - [26] ôCBC's are not know for being speedy or agile......ö I never found them to be that bad. More so if the 10% speed boost for being in a gang and if you take Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment you get another large speed boost. Then again I use drones and donÆt use speed to avoid hits so I donÆt need to be agile. ôDon't Command Ships need all the skills that a HAC needs, plus a few Leadership skills on top?ö Depends on the Command ship as they are split into 2 groups. The 2nd group which is the better group in my mind has no HAC skills so its not worth training for HAC ships first. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:00:00 - [27] A Vaga is great until it gets double webbed by an AC tempest... and then it gets popped in a couple seconds. Just as the faction-fitted one that came to Querious last week -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Pottsey ôDon't Command Ships need all the skills that a HAC needs, plus a few Leadership skills on top?ö Depends on the Command ship as they are split into 2 groups. The 2nd group which is the better group in my mind has no HAC skills so its not worth training for HAC ships first. Yes, but you still need cruiser 5 AND BC 5 for them. Also, the fleet commands are only the better ones if you go the gang mod route - if you want to get basically a bigger HAC the field command are preferable. The gal BCs are a bit of an exeption there since the EOS can wield 5 heavies, which does counter the better gun boni of the astarte, but for the other fleet vs field commands the dps of the fleet lags behind the field commands.
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:28:00 - [29] Get a Deimos or ishtar, They are the most uber HAC's It currently goes. Ishtar > Diemos > Zealot > Vagabond > Cerberus > Eagle > Sacrilege > Munnin. Contrary to popular belief the Vagabond is NOT the Best HAC in game, its damage out put and tankability is Ridiculously low. (I fly all races of HAC's before you question my judgement) Go for a diemos, its the easiest to fit, Pumps out The Most damage compared to all others, And can fit a decent tank if required.
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:32:00 - [30] ISHTAR FTW!!!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:46:00 - [31] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Contrary to popular belief the Vagabond is NOT the Best HAC in game, its damage out put and tankability is Ridiculously low. Actually, the base dps of the vaga with 5 * 220mms is higher than the zealot with 4 * heavy pulses. And this ignoring the dps of the vagas 5 light drones.
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.04 13:57:00 - [32] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Go for a diemos, its the easiest to fit... Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. ----------------------------------------------- "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime
TuRtLe HeAd The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.10.04 14:02:00 - [33] Originally by: Centurin Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Go for a diemos, its the easiest to fit... Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. To be honest that was for the benefit of the diemos whingers, Instead of moaning about not being able to fit it easily try a different setup. If we keep whinging about setups pretty soon every ship in eve will be able to fit full weapons and full tank. there will be no need for lesser modules. Diemos IS EASY to fit, its just how you try to fit it. As for the vaga , People think they are overpowered for one reason only, STABS. Vaga prices will soon plummet if PvP with Stabs isn't viable. Nutshell, your best bet is the Ishtar or Diemos, They are the best in the HAC class.
Trader Phil	Posted - 2006.10.04 14:30:00 - [34] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Originally by: Centurin Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Go for a diemos, its the easiest to fit... Thanks for the laugh. I needed that. To be honest that was for the benefit of the diemos whingers, Instead of moaning about not being able to fit it easily try a different setup. If we keep whinging about setups pretty soon every ship in eve will be able to fit full weapons and full tank. there will be no need for lesser modules. Diemos IS EASY to fit, its just how you try to fit it. As for the vaga , People think they are overpowered for one reason only, STABS. Vaga prices will soon plummet if PvP with Stabs isn't viable. Nutshell, your best bet is the Ishtar or Diemos, They are the best in the HAC class. Price could also increase when all the people who previously thought they were invincible get wrecked and decide to buy new ships (assuming they still buy another vagabond)
sakana Purgatorial Janitors Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.04 14:31:00 - [35] vaga, and you dont really need to tank if you set it up right.
ashher	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:21:00 - [36] these people who say the eagles sucks dont have a clue the blaster eagle kills most hacs due to having neutrons or ions fitted and dual nos, thus doing lots of damage and killing the hacs biggest weakness cap Yes a diemos does more damage but cant tank at the same time, unlike an eagle Sniper eagle does a very good job doing what it was designed to do - snipe, no other hacs can snipe aswell so again is not crap as people think Eagle is also very easy to fit, normally fitting what you want on hacs you end up with problems with pg cpu etc but not so much with an eagle. however as long as people still believe they are ****e then the price will remain low which suits me!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Dr Fighter on 04/10/2006 18:46:12 Best all rounders are: Zealot, Vagabond, Ishtar and Muninn. The others are one of the following: too slow, too tough to fit, not enough dmg, not enough range. Thats not to say they are usless, they are just the worse given any situation than the top four. EDIT: caldari HACs i dont like because they are hard to fit for solo work (my precious mids) and they are slow, crappy agility and not great dmg. All my own opinions.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Contrary to popular belief the Vagabond is NOT the Best HAC in game, its damage out put and tankability is Ridiculously low. Actually, the base dps of the vaga with 5 * 220mms is higher than the zealot with 4 * heavy pulses. And this ignoring the dps of the vagas 5 light drones. zealot has more med/low slots though, it can afford 3 heat sinks.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:40:00 - [39] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Contrary to popular belief the Vagabond is NOT the Best HAC in game, its damage out put and tankability is Ridiculously low. Actually, the base dps of the vaga with 5 * 220mms is higher than the zealot with 4 * heavy pulses. And this ignoring the dps of the vagas 5 light drones. zealot has more med/low slots though, it can afford 3 heat sinks. It also armor tanks, so those two extra lows are used. I've seen very few Vagabond setups without at least 2 Gyros, and a lot with 3. Benefit of being a shield tanking ship.
Devon Manticore Manticore Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:35:00 - [40] Edited by: Devon Manticore on 04/10/2006 20:40:28 Originally by: Ithildin Edited by: Ithildin on 04/10/2006 11:55:04 What you add on an Astarte compared to a Deimos: * Battlecruiser V * Squadron Command IV * Spaceship Command V The last one is incorrect, you need that to fly hacs as well Edit: oh and to the op, if you don¦t wanna go for minmatar hac wise. I¦d say gallente got a fun pair of hacs Ishtar is an excellent hac and fun to fly, you can use ew, heavy tank, nos and drones can¦t get better tbh. To the deimos, it¦s fun to fly but it isnt "that" good, there¦s alot better options. CEO of Manticore Technologies

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