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Nina Lowel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.14 02:46:06 -
[1] - Quote
Since these ships don't have T2 variants how about making the T2 version into a cov ops cloaking mini logistics that can take covert jump portals to jump in with those ship types?
What do you guys think? |
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
558
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Posted - 2015.02.14 02:55:52 -
[2] - Quote
Standard questions I have regarding all new ship ideas.
Why?
What role does it fill?
Is there no way to fill that role with existing ships?
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
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Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2015.02.14 03:14:11 -
[3] - Quote
While I agree with a T2 frig logi I don't entirely know about giving them cov ops abilities. Most situations where cov ops need reps they're heavy reps which is already covered by the nestor or sin in some kind of tinker setup.
The need is there for a specialized frig logi especially in organized FW combat for two reasons. One it gives players a logical progression towards T2 logi and two it aims it firmly at newer players not just by being a frigate but by being in FW which is a great place for new pilots to start playing. Also with the numerous small plexes it could lead to more interesting combat among organized groups.
Plus while I don't necessarily like the cov ops idea I do like giving them an extra sorta niche for them to fit into so they have wider applications. Unfortunately I just don't think it's in cov ops. |
Nina Lowel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.14 03:30:50 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:What role does it fill?
RR to jump in with cov portal
Quote:Is there no way to fill that role with existing ships?
small bonused rr's that can jump with cov ops, no ships currently like that |
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
Resonance.
96
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Posted - 2015.02.14 03:52:10 -
[5] - Quote
And then we hit the same issue as we always do with suggestion of T2 logi frigates.
What to do for Amarr?
Inquisitor (amarr logi frigate) already has a T2 variant, which is the Purifier |
Nina Lowel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.14 03:58:34 -
[6] - Quote
Discomanco wrote:And then we hit the same issue as we always do with suggestion of T2 logi frigates.
What to do for Amarr?
Inquisitor (amarr logi frigate) already has a T2 variant, which is the Purifier
Make it off the tormentor haul? |
To mare
Advanced Technology
394
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Posted - 2015.02.14 04:02:27 -
[7] - Quote
take cov-ops cloak and logistic, two of the most OP things in the game and put them together, what could possibly go wrong?
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Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us
110
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Posted - 2015.02.14 04:11:16 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah OP cloaky logi hull that can be alphaed down by flying too close to it. totally op in my book. |
Nina Lowel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.14 04:19:49 -
[9] - Quote
To mare wrote:take cov-ops cloak and logistic, two of the most OP things in the game and put them together, what could possibly go wrong?
A frig with only bonuses to small RR but can fit a cov ops cloak OP? Hmm.
The idea is to have a ship that can jump in with other cov ops that has dedicated RR bonuses fitting a max of 3 small RR modules + 1 cov ops cloak. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
734
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Posted - 2015.02.14 06:20:05 -
[10] - Quote
Nina Lowel wrote:Quote:Is there no way to fill that role with existing ships? small bonused rr's that can jump with cov ops, no ships currently like that
To mare wrote:take cov-ops cloak and logistic, two of the most OP things in the game and put them together, what could possibly go wrong?
you mean a T3...
and the only reason T3s are not overpowered in this role is do to the limited capacitor and no range bonuses
Lyra Gerie wrote:While I agree with a T2 frig logi I don't entirely know about giving them cov ops abilities. Most situations where cov ops need reps they're heavy reps which is already covered by the nestor or sin in some kind of tinker setup.
a nestor is not a part of a black ops gang since it can't jump(unless you are using a nestor to cyno? )
and the only time a sin does logi is when someone decided to train the sin and now has no use for his highs if you are going to use a dedicated logi in a blops fleet it is normaly a T3 or if you are cheap a pilgrim
Fuel block colors
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Lienzo
Amanuensis
22
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Posted - 2015.02.14 07:41:45 -
[11] - Quote
The only problem with logi frigs is their diminutive drone bays and the silly Drone V pre-req for logi drones. Light Shield Maintenance Bot I is so OP.  Only the burst and the navitas needs a drone bonus, while the inquisitor and the bantam could get an RR RoF bonus or something.
People might actually fly them if they have a chance of getting on KMs.
Another thing that no ship has is a remote targeting computer, remote ECCM or remote sensor booster bonus. A module that gave resistance to webs or shrank the sig of a target would be quite interesting for heavy tackle support. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
211
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Posted - 2015.02.14 09:02:45 -
[12] - Quote
Closest equivalent thing is a RR t3 type thing with a cloaky... And you see SOO MANY OF THOSE it must be hard OP... (and those things can rep LIKE A TRUCK)
I see few big issues with these things... |
Nina Lowel
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:28:59 -
[13] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:Closest equivalent thing is a RR t3 type thing with a cloaky... And you see SOO MANY OF THOSE it must be hard OP... (and those things can rep LIKE A TRUCK)
I see few big issues with these things...
Like?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
744
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Posted - 2015.02.16 00:50:36 -
[14] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:The only problem with logi frigs is their diminutive drone bays and the silly Drone V pre-req for logi drones. Light Shield Maintenance Bot I is so OP. Only the burst and the navitas needs a drone bonus, while the inquisitor and the bantam could get an RR RoF bonus or something. People might actually fly them if they have a chance of getting on KMs. Another thing that no ship has is a remote targeting computer, remote ECCM or remote sensor booster bonus. A module that gave resistance to webs or shrank the sig of a target would be quite interesting for heavy tackle support.
Remote ECCM bonus would be great the fact that they are already 120% meaning using two already makes cruisers and T2s almost impossible to jam but they struggle to help frigs so giving a support frig a bonus to this would fit.
IDK about the mod that reduces the effectiveness i'll think on this one a bit and see if i can break it
Fuel block colors
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
55
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Posted - 2015.02.16 01:10:06 -
[15] - Quote
Tell me please what are your going to RR with such a small ship? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Snuffed Out
7369
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Posted - 2015.02.16 03:53:41 -
[16] - Quote
I don't see a need for this.
- the step up from Tech 1 Logi Frigates are Tech 1 Logi Cruisers. Tech 2 Logi Cruisers are actually battleship level reppers.
- covert-ops gangs needing RR? I don't buy it.
Such ships are basically designed to "shut down" the target and gank it, not get sucked into a protracted brawl. If you find yourself brawling in a Stealth Bomber, then you have done something VERY wrong.
- Frigates = highly mobile and cheap ship
Tech 2 logi = able to rep two classes above itself
Covert Cloaking Capable = able to pick and choose engagements
All of the above rolled into one? Overpowered.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
A T O N E M E N T
625
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:Standard questions I have regarding all new ship ideas.
Why?
What role does it fill?
Is there no way to fill that role with existing ships?
I don't agree with the OP's idea. However, I would love to see faster (or low sig high agility), higher resistance variants of the current T1 Logistic ships. They would go very well with Assault Frigate fleets. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
A T O N E M E N T
625
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:50:22 -
[18] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Tell me please what are your going to RR with such a small ship?
I repped some of my friends in two Bantams for 40k damage against an enemy fleet. Do not underestimate the power of logistics in given situations. Lower level Variants of of T2 Logi would be welcome - especially in Faction Warfare. However; the OP's idea is silly and is just "Put a covert ops cloak on it because its cool". |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
930
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Posted - 2015.02.16 06:19:21 -
[19] - Quote
Hot dropping is "kill or be killed" situation. It is over powered enough with AFK cloakers.
Now, a T2 frigate that can manage 2x medium repairs, a decent resist tank and maybe the drone bay for sentry + light + bandwidth to run just the one sentry ... that would be delicious. 
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Ix Method
Shadows Legion
High-Sec Tomfoolery
406
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:08:12 -
[20] - Quote
Something like this, a unique trait rather than a buff to rep power, is definitely the way to go with these things but I'm not sure cloaky hotdropping needs what would be a pretty solid buff?
Dunno, would rather see it covering some of the unbonused logistics mods tbh, Remote ECCM and the like.
Travelling at the speed of love.
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Amarisen Gream
The ArK's Hammer
ArK Alliance
65
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Posted - 2015.02.16 09:36:53 -
[21] - Quote
I have wished for T2 frig logi as well
My thought on an Amarr hull would that it would gain rep bonuses via vampirism of another ships cap.
Caldari could look at stealing shields
Not sure for Gallente/Minnie
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
225
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:54:25 -
[22] - Quote
I like the idea of T2 logi frigs being E-defense ships, particularly SeBo and ECCM, so perhaps get a (small - say 5%/level) bonus to strength, but a decent bonus to cap usage, so that these modules take (for a frig, anyway) only a tiny fraction of the total ship's cap...
perhaps only have the bonus affect the use of SeBo and ECCM on frigate/destroyer class ships (possibly including, possibly excluding non-remote SeBo and ECCM)
as for what's the point of these - to support frigate roams with T2 logi, preventing e-war use being overpowering against them (much harder for a falcon/rook to jam 6 frigs at once than 6 cruisers at once, for instance, if one of these is in the gang)
regarding balance, and to stop them being a match rep-wise for T1 logi cruisers...... give them a *slighly* longer range bonus, say....... 700% - so reps go out to 40km-ish (a T1 logi frig puts them out to 28.8km, a T1 logi cruiser puts them out to 66km)
and perhaps give them 6 high slots, and a corresponding role bonus to RR cap use, this should push their rep amount up to 284 hp/s (armour) or 268 hp/s (shield), as opposed to 213/356 hp/s (from exequror/augoror) or 201/481 (from scythe/osprey)
hmmm, perhaps only 4 highslots (a 5th on the bantam/inquisitor variant, if they get a bonus to cap transfer too)
(those numbers should be correct for the 'without skills' character using T2 modules on EFT as of current build [2015/02/16])
sooo, something like:
Inquisitor T2 variant:
slots: 5H/2M/5L (not too many? maybe remove a low slot....)
hardpoints: 2T/0L
rigs slots: 2
ship bonuses:
amarr frigate:
10% to RAR rep amount/level
10% reduction in RAR cap use/level
Logistics frigate:
15% reduction in cap Xfer activation cost/level
10% bonus to cap Xfer transfer amount/level (these two might be slightly skewed, I'm really not too sure about them anyway)
role bonuses:
700% bonus to remote armour repair and cap Xfer range
30% reduction in RAR cap use
Bantam T2 variant
slots: 5H/5M/2L (if too many slots, remove a mid)
hardpoints: 0T/2L
rigs slots: 2
ship bonuses:
as above, just swap RAR, for RSR/shield Xfer, and amarr for caldari
Navitas T2 variant
Slots: 4H/4M/4L
hardpoints: 2T/0L
rig slots: 2
ship bonuses
gallente frigate:
10% to RAR rep amount/level
10% reduction in RAR cap use/level
Logistics frigate:
5% bonus to level to rECCM and rSeBo strength
10% increase to optimal range to rECCM and rSeBo/level
role bonuses:
700% bonus to remote armour repair
30% reduction in RAR cap use
75% reduction to rECCM and rSeBo cap use
Burst T2 variant
slots: 4H/5M/3L
hardpoints: 2T/0L
rig slots: 2
ship bonuses:
as above, just swap RAR, for RSR/shield Xfer, and gallente for minmatar
....
something like that, anyway
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
Takahashi Alliance
885
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:21:58 -
[23] - Quote
I am all for T2 logi frigs. Frig gangs are a lot of fun, both to fight in and against. That said, is it the case that T1 lgoi frigs do not provide sufficient reps to keep their comrades flying?
I can certainly see the benefits of a Cloaky T2 Logi Frigate, particularly with the current Bomber meta. But I think bombs would need to be rebalanced before Bombers recieve a dedicated support ship for fleets. And yes, this would be a big buff to Hot Dropping, which is really not needed at present.
There are already Bomber doctrines that forego the cloak and go for tank, (IE: Goku Doctrine,) and they take T1 logi with them, and they do pretty well.
In short, I just don't see a need for the Covert option.
T2 Logi Frigates would not really need much more repping power, (if at all,) but if they obtained a better resist profile, (like the bomber resist profiles,) and maybe a touch more speed, reduced cap needs and a unique ability - perhaps to remotely reduce the sig radius of a ship they are supporting, maybe even halving the cycle time of reps while also halving the cap use and rep amount.
I woulod love to see that.
Friends
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Juan Mileghere
Incident Command
Southern Star Dominion
3
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:34:29 -
[24] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Tell me please what are your going to RR with such a small ship?
AFs, I'd presume something like Harpy fleets |
Leyete Wulf
Rolling Static
Gone Critical
92
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:02:54 -
[25] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:Tell me please what are your going to RR with such a small ship?
Actually, living in w-space I frequently find frigate holes leading into active null sec areas and go on roams with bombers and other small cloakies, between size limitations and cost management having a viable alternative for RR would be very nice (T3s are poorly suited for this). I'm not talking about active combat RR so much as post-combat recovery which can be difficult for a small cloaky gang as typically no one has a drone bay and time spent uncloaked is time spent vulnerable to detection. I know this is a fringe case but I know I'm not the only one running bomber gangs that could use some logistic support between fights. |
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