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Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22556	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:08:48 - [1] - Quote WiS is a prime example of trying to run before you can walk. Character Creator has 2 developers assigned to it. Think about that before you start shooting for the moon. Unless there is a strong link between the EVE the game and WiS, CCP will not develop it in any way, shape, or form. This was clearly stated in the last conference call between CCP and players on this topic. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22830	Posted - 2015.02.22 23:40:19 - [2] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: If the Ivory soap company lost millions trying to develop salted pork scented soap that for some reason wasn't a hit with consumers, I wouldn't care. As long as they still had a reasonably priced basic product. In this particular case, the Ivory Soap Company tried to make a Bath Tissue product, and did so by neglecting their core product, in a way that brought on the ire of their soap customers. Then, the Ivory Soap company bought someone else's Bath Tissue product and tried to make it an Ivory Soap Company product, but they had to scrap the whole thing and excise that part of the company. If now someone brings up Bath Tissue again, do you think it's inappropriate that people bring up two previous failed attempts, one (or possibly both) of which had a detrimental effect on the core product? Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22831	Posted - 2015.02.22 23:55:40 - [3] - Quote Yeah EVE has been EVE and it's still affordable (to me) and fun. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22856	Posted - 2015.02.23 04:30:12 - [4] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: The ire was caused by 2 things. Firstly by peoples video cards that actually caught on fire or melted down from the super super laggy CQ at the time, because there were faults in the rendering somewhere that actually caused real hardware issues. Secondly, by the leaked greed is good memo. The concept of WiS was nothing to do with the Jita riots, the protests or any of the rest of it. People liked the concept of WiS as it was meant to have been developed with game features. Not just pretty fluff. But. If you want to insist on rewriting history, go right ahead, you obviously aren't interesting in listening to reason. No rewrite. Aralyn provides a full summary of contributing reasons, the most agregious of which is: Aralyn Cormallen wrote: 18 months - Set the stage by creating an undercurrent of neglect in EvE, and creating an expectation of WiS ("we better get something worth the loss of 18 months of EvE developement") Ask anyone naysayer in this thread why they oppose WiS. This is the prime reason. Development of the main game elements losing ground because of shifted resources to an unrelated, unconnected aspect of the game is a legitimate concern. As far as I can tell, it is one of the reasons CCP isn't developing WiS right now. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22856	Posted - 2015.02.23 05:13:33 - [5] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Ever played with Morrowind world creator tool or done some design in Second Life? Making a spawn point for a character is hardly a new and huge piece of code. Invite people into your Captain's Quarters would be a big difference for a small effort. I don't actually understand why it is not implemented already. (You pay micro transactions for items that change your appearance. You need to be able to stand around displaying those things and chatting about how marvellous you all look, to feel you got your value for money.) I can't say I have tried either of those. I've tried the character maker in Runescape, which was flexible enough for me to choose blue hair and a yellow jumpsuit. If options are available, as they are in EVE, I would be remiss not to experiment with them. I'm not arguing that people don't want something like WiS, nor am I arguing that it is of no worth.. this is a game, after all, and 99% of what we do is a complete waste of time. Any engineering project is requires time, resources, and money and never are all three available in plentiful supply. Do we want SOV changes? Then we can't have WiS. Do we want POS code to be fixed? Then we can't have WiS. This the reality, folks. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we can collaborate to drive meaningful, realistic changes in Character Creator instead of this stream of consciousness opium dream kitchen sink vision people keep referring to. Seriously. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22870	Posted - 2015.02.23 10:00:04 - [6] - Quote It's simple Lucas. We want CCP to sell another game. We want them to be really successful at it. At the same time, no one in thread has provided a cogent argument that EVE needs WIS for subs. EVE sells itself without WIS, always has. So why implement it? It's better, as the argument goes, to develop the core game which is what is bringing in subs in the first place. Is anyone arguing that EVE is going to die if it never had WIS? Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I talk about one little mechanic and you go on about entire stations. (Stations and ship interiors that can be largely player built with the right tools.) You are trivializing the development effort. Neither history, nor CCP's direct statements to us on this matter agree with you. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22870	Posted - 2015.02.23 10:47:36 - [7] - Quote I'd think that at that point it becomes a CCP marketing question. One could argue that WoD was WIS the game, and it encountered both development and marketing hurdles. Companies may also be reluctant to pursue an avenue marked by previous failures. It's just bad luck. People don't like to revisit what hasn't worked. Also, as others have argued, most other MMOs are essentially WIS the game. These games are able to deliver a walking/3rd person experience at scale, with tens of characters on the same screen as a normal part of how they function. Nice to have? There are many of these in EVE and in life. I like conversing in terms of can haves. Vastly reduce the product definition, account for the development resources at hand (in our case, 2 developers), and facilitate a dialog that doesn't involve complaining or whining. I think that's productive. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22934	Posted - 2015.02.23 21:05:39 - [8] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: 2007-2011 was the last time EVE grew in absolute terms. Could you tell me how you are so sure that Multiple Character Training and infinite skill queue is not reflected in your analysis? Both of these would drive lower number of accounts and lower concurrent users logged on without affecting EVE's profitability one bit. It is safe to say that both of these features see use by an order or five of magnitude of more users than Captain's Quarters. Friendship is the best ship. Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22935	Posted - 2015.02.23 21:27:56 - [9] - Quote The last financial update had a dip due to WOD related R&D. R&D dips are well known and temporary profit displacement phenomena for tech companies. How are you extrapolating the slow demise of EVE from those numbers? We're flying high, we're watching the world pass us by
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22955	Posted - 2015.02.24 02:21:52 - [10] - Quote Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about an experience about as immersive as this. I suppose they can stiff-walk into each other, bumping each other repeatedly. Bumping should reset the new Trapped In Another's CQ timer, so you'd have to wait for the timer to expire to leave that person's CQ. Fun! \o/ Edit: I haven't played a lot of MMOs besides EVE, so go easy on me here.. We're flying high, we're watching the world pass us by

Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22960	Posted - 2015.02.24 11:20:05 - [11] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: You seem surprised lol EVE is very far from being the perfect RP platform. There are other games that are far better because people can more easily accept being an elf or a satyr or a fellow in a Star Trek uniform than they can accept being a spaceship. The nods to EVE's RP community are few and far between. Sure, there are exploding stars and Drifters which can be solo'd by Ventures, but none of those are particularly compelling enough in the whole. The RP experience is an afterthought and really only perpetuates itself because of the imagination and tenacity of that community. That said, Jen's idea grossly underestimates the development effort. I get this from CCP's clothing workshop where something as trivial to us as a new hair model was a ton of work for a developer (I believe they are not exaggerating one bit). Jen's idea also "opens" the CQ door without any modifications that would be a basis for immersion. Without a necessary amount of immersion the feature would not see widescale use. I don't think jumping on any novelty idea is particularly good for the game, even if short term it might seem like a cool thing to you. I support well formed ideas with a solid 30,000 foot view, not hacks conceived of on the back of a napkin without any long term value to the game. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22960	Posted - 2015.02.24 11:26:47 - [12] - Quote Anslo wrote: Dude, ***** seriously? That's a p narrow minded view of this . How about not generalizing something people would like for say, RP, or EVA, or some **, k thx BYE. Did you have any specific ideas which could be discussed? If you don't agree with my evaluation of how poor the immersion would be for Jen's idea you should articulate the opposing viewpoint instead of shooting off expletives at me. I'd only be making a generalization if I actually said I think everyone feels that way. I even qualified my post by mentioning how little experience I have with games typically used as MMO RP platforms. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 22964	Posted - 2015.02.24 11:38:53 - [13] - Quote Yes well the Devs can and do implement napkin illustrations. Take the feature advertised by the blue banner on your launcher, for example.. ducks Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23035	Posted - 2015.02.24 21:49:30 - [14] - Quote Erica, I'm sorry I misunderstood you. And please go get some sleep Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23186	Posted - 2015.02.25 10:53:57 - [15] - Quote Steppa Musana wrote: I also think the antiWiS attitiude of CCP is a knee jerk reaction to players crying about it. I mean theres more people that talk **** about mining than WiS, and yet we still have improvements to that. I get the idea that if mining wasnt introduced yet, CCP would call it a "mistake" and pull back on realeasing it on the basis of the CODE and Goon trolls crying. Not sure the analogy works because mining has a role in the life cycle from resource to product. It forms a core part of the market (though not necessarily profitable in most ways). WIS is not functional, like mining is. It is a luxury product. Something that is desirable by some. EVE has been operating on basic rations for a while. The nice to haves have mostly been concentrated on the core product because that's what people have come to sub for. I think mining and WIS are similar in one way: For mining I don't think CCP has a solution to solve the problem of boredom and monotony associated with the activity. Many people have suggested ideas (ie: minigames, comets), but there isn't a single one that really clicks by making it interesting without losing mining's already dismal ISK/hr. CCP by its own admission doesn't have a WIS solution either. How would it integrate into the game? How would it be compelling enough such that the larger percentage of EVE players use it such as to justify its development cost? I've yet to see a satisfying answer (or better yet, any answer) for these 2 questions. People always talk about why they might personally use it but that's not particularly compelling in and of itself. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23186	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:07:04 - [16] - Quote Sorry for the second post but it keeps timing out when I try to edit previous. I wanted to add another thought about mining. CODE folks do have a point about mining which is an important criticism of the activity: Mining doesn't particularly integrate that well with the rest of EVE either. Fleet mining is a thing, but not particularly prevalent for the more lucrative mining resources, especially gas. The career lends itself to solo play and isolation, and typically doesn't come with the sort of tense moments you get with Explo. The skills you build (I don't mean training) with mining doesn't help you play the rest of the game. It's sort of like its own black hole with Netflix or some other outside-of-EVE thing to keep you company. Quite like the CQ which you might be sitting alone inside. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23189	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:24:49 - [17] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: As for compelling reasons to justify it's development you mention not having seen any answers, yet I can see one right now looking at your portrait. It's already generating revenue even without wis. Avatar items, accesories and features found in the NeX, for example. It's doing pretty well, these days it's almost become harder to spot an avatar in default clothes than it is to find one wearing an NeX item. But right now all that stuff is just like buying a fancy sports car. Looks great, and that's enough for many people like me to spend the money on one anyway, even though there's no race track around to really drive it on and make proper use of it. Just imagine what happens NeXt to sales when CCP finally provide that "race track"... $$$$ I have a lengthy answer for why I support character creator as a feature but not WIS but I think I'm going to have trouble writing it all down from the crowded environment where I am right now. For me personally, WIS would break immersion. It has to do with the same viewpoint Sol has about WIS being a kind of "enemy of imagination". I will write down these thoughts in a later post.. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23198	Posted - 2015.02.25 11:50:44 - [18] - Quote snuggles Ma Baker The character portrait is like a logo, or a brand in many ways. It gives the player the option to choose what is presented and how it is presented. There are limitations to this of course and we'd like to change that, but that's a separate discussion. A logo loses its value if you can take and change its colors to whatever you want or move it around in 3d. I've been told that my alts are easily recognizable as me simply because of the similarity in style. The portrait is a useful tool to express a feeling or thought using colors and light and other tools. A portrait can express personality. Putting Sibs in 3d removes my ability to "fashion" the presentation of Sibs. It removes an element of my own personal identity, which is expressed through the portrait design, and makes a level playing field for anyone with a character. In that generic WIS rendering environment where we won't be able to choose lighting or colors or camera angles or atmosphere, your specific uniqueness is forfeit. In my opinion, there is an element of mystique in the portrait that WIS removes. It's like taking a cell phone video of the scene in an Ansel Adams painting. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23288	Posted - 2015.02.25 14:40:51 - [19] - Quote Ma'Baker McCandless wrote: I agree with Jenn and Kaar, I always have and I probably always will But reading this thread for the 30th-odd time is making me feel old in my very bones. Um, but Ma.. you are old. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23417	Posted - 2015.02.25 23:18:26 - [20] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Sibyyl wrote: Given that the avatars just sort of stand around and stare dead-eyed, you are talking about ... How people play table top games, how the first 3D games worked. You can just put in a representation, an anchor for the imagination and the player does the rest. I think meaningful content as described by CCP, and something I agree with: Quote: Meaningful in this instance meant that there was some core gameplay that really required you to be an avatar rather than having stuff that occurs whilst your avatar just happens to be stood around. Tabletop doesn't have graphics at all. You are looking out at the other players across the table and imagining the entire scene. My experience with it twice did not include miniatures or maps or anything of the sort. It was all verbal description, expressions, and so on. The first 3d games were in and of themselves trend setting. We could accept those limitations because we were getting something cutting edge. It is safe to say that though Carbon is quite capable and good looking, in terms of capabilities and performance it is not the best example of a 3d graphical multiplayer environment in present day. Not only do we not have a core EVE game related reason for many players to use the feature, we are discussing release of an engine that has trouble with physically rendered cloth and hair and suffers from performance defects with multiple players present. I can appreciate the vision, the dream of a sci fi world that is "complete", but I think there is some denial here about the technical state of the solution and the amount of effort that would be required to realize that dream. WIS would not be "low hanging fruit" by any definition of software project management. Guess what, low hanging fruit is the most productive type of ideas to discuss for Character Creator. This is CCP's own suggestion. I don't want to tell you guys not to dream stuff up.. by all means do that.. but you are letting those get in the way of meaningful expectations in this space. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go

Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23456	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:33:16 - [21] - Quote Alcaman wrote: 1. Improvement to the GUI. GUI could be less cluttered if you allowed for certain functionality to be used in certain areas in the station. This could therefore be a step towards improving the user interface. Have you ever used Captain's Quarters? All the Station Services are provided inside. This is a great example because accessing Station Services in hangar view is super quick. Accessing them in CQ means you have to watch your pilot slow walk to the console. Which option do you think people overwhelmingly choose? Quote: 2. People spend most of the time docked and chatting. If we had a place where these people could see each others avatar it would bring immersion. This would be as "simple" as extending the current captains quarter with essentially one more room and allow to see other visitors on the station. CCP should never, ever implement a feature that encourahes someone not to undock. It runs counter to every other change they make to the game. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23457	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:53:44 - [22] - Quote Why is everyone debating pod mechanics? CCP broke their own lore by trying to account for Incarna and Capsuleers wearing Gap jeans and America n Apparel tees. We should be untanned, goo-stained ghosts with cables protruding out and breathing masks. In order to interact with the rest of humanity, the Calvin Klein model projection is used.. so we don't scare the kids. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23461	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:02:09 - [23] - Quote Commissar Kate wrote: Unless you can shoot people in the face, make ISK, lose ISK and possibly effect flying in space stuff, I don't really see much of a point in WiS. And even then it's still kinda iffy. If its made purely for social interaction 'immersion' then its a total waste of time when you should be socializing in space by blowing **** up anyway. Anything that slows you down for fitting ships, moving items around in your hangar, missions and market would be terrible. I'm about ready to say the best thing to do is to just remove all traces of portraits and avatars in Eve so we never have to deal with this stuff ever again. Would be good for the new players too, they wont get the impression that there might be avatar play. I have also saw that Elite: Dangerous wants some sort of WiS aspect too. I wish them the best of luck but I dont see it being as cool or usefull as the also promised landing on planets. I think I've learned to spot a Kate troll when I see one. In Opposite Day today are we? Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23520	Posted - 2015.02.28 15:13:30 - [24] - Quote Jade Blackwind wrote: The line here, like in many other places (and games since Ultima Online) is not pro-Wis and anti-WiS. It's pro-immersion and anti-immersion. I had described a bit earlier why WIS would be detrimental for my own personal immersion. I get very deep in concentration when I'm flying around in a hostile situation, or if I'm doing a roam and someone is teaching me how to fight. Maybe it is the wrong definition, but I find myself with total tunnel vision during those times and hyperaware of what is happening around my ship. I am.. immersed. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23523	Posted - 2015.02.28 15:47:19 - [25] - Quote Tyanshe wrote: Vote for CSM candidates that support WiS. Too bad most of the well known candidates are firmly against. If this is your particular interest, Mike and corbexx have been active in related spaces. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23525	Posted - 2015.02.28 19:17:03 - [26] - Quote That is not even an actual quote, gosh. -_-' Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23607	Posted - 2015.03.03 22:37:05 - [27] - Quote Portraits and WIS are not the same. Portraits are under active development and CCP is "happy" with the side income the accessories provide. WIS development was halted, CCP has no compelling ideas that would justify resources to be assigned, and the company has no plans to develop it. Don't mix the two. They are very different. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23610	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:33:56 - [28] - Quote The primary reason why I match my shoes to my dress is for my own sanity. If someone else looks at them, then fine.. but it is not the reason for me. I choose the same thing for Barbies I've had or for Sibs in the game. Somewhere in the back of my head I know that this behavior must be some sort of evolutionary social imperative.. is it? Then again I have a fondness for yellow, which might not be socially acceptable at all, but I don't consider that to be discouraging at all. Rush to danger, wind up nowhere Sabriz for CSM go go go
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 23977	Posted - 2015.03.17 00:18:40 - [29] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: It's not the fact that you do this incredibly screwed up thing, it's your 15 bucks go crazy, some people pay women in leather to beat them like they are step-children lol. The problem is how in every discussion with you types you act like it's US (regular people) who are somehow cracked. $15 is an order of magnitude off for the going rate for a service like this. For those whom I've helped experience this, I have been told that it's an incredibly cathartic experience and worth every penny. The difference here is that the experience comes with its own physical and emotional release.. which justifies the price of entry. Folks hung up on WIS on the other hand are not paying for release.. they are experiencing something that admittedly gives them no pleasure.. #afkleadership -óß¦ªß¦ç-ó
Sibyyl Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 25646	Posted - 2015.07.24 15:12:56 - [30] - Quote Hi everyone! Do you guys remember when CSM corbexx helped a bunch of players talk to CCP about apparel? One of the suggestions was to have "working overalls" or industrial type clothes for the industry PVE players. Well it's possible CCP was listening. I saw some 'Hephaestus' apparel on Sisi this morning. Look here: https://imgur.com/a/7aKAD GÖÑ Lights will guide you home And ignite your bones

Sibyyl Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 25670	Posted - 2015.09.23 15:17:32 - [31] - Quote Chocolate Mooses wrote: This poor horse is already dead due to massive beating and it's time we bury it. Don't be so hard on yourself. And I wish I could shout you out

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