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Want to encourage people not to stay in NPC corps ?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Girru	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Gaius Sejanus Or let the perfectly fine system remain as it is. Player Corporations are cesspools that I want no part of. The "One True Way" control freaks in this very thread (and thousands of others) are simply shining examples of the sort of people who I am quite content to not be affiliated with. Adding incentives to leave NPC corps would work for some people, but not for me or a lot of other folks I speak to frequently. The problem with player corps are the players. As luck would have it, I've already found the solution to be rid of them. There are people that don't want non-consensual PvP in ANY amount. CCP understands this, and has said many times they want non-PvPers to play EVE. People like you are either griefers or you people just don't get it. Quote: I'm not the type to deny you your play style. You are so full of crap! By forcing people to be exposed to non-consenual PvP, you the very thing you cliam not to be.
Raquel Smith Caldari Ferengi Commerce Authority	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Cipher7 I vote for constant %40 taxes on NPC players. You wanna be totally safe? Fine. Pay for it. Or just put long time NPC corp members into a NPC subcorp that can be wardecced. <--- Note my corp tag - I aint no hypocrite - and no I am not an alt. Wait, so what is it? Players are "totally safe" or the only safe place in Eve is docked in Empire at a station? <-- obligatory snarky "look at me my opinion matters more than you" emoticon.
Calio Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:18:00 - [33] Sheeesh! Another bad idea by the play-it-my-way police whose time has not yet come and (fortunately) is unlikely to ever come. "Those people who think they know everything are a real annoyance to those of us who do" (Issac Assimov)
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:30:00 - [34] Edited by: Patch86 on 06/10/2006 20:36:18 I like the idea of a constant % tax (lets say, 10% for noob corps, 15% for the others, just for the sake of numbers). This game can always do with more ISK sinks, it means NPC corps are a little less perfect (imo, they're just too nice, makes player owned corps seem less amiable) and makes perfect role-play sense. I mean, in real life, you live in a country and they tax you. And why wouldn't all the various mega-corps in the game want to generate an income? Sounds pretty good to me. EDIT NOTE: This isn't because I want to force people out of the NPC corps. I speant ages in the Noob corp, enjoying myself thoroughly, and I see no good reason to physically force people out into player corps. I just think its a good idea.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:34:00 - [35] Originally by: Calio Sheeesh! Another bad idea by the play-it-my-way police whose time has not yet come and (fortunately) is unlikely to ever come. Let me introduce you to kali 2 ,and then my caldari friend you will be shot :)
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.10.06 21:01:00 - [36] Quote: Let me introduce you to kali 2 ,and then my caldari friend you will be shot :) You could stand to introduce yourself to the multitude of dev postings explicitly stating that Faction Warfare will be OPTIONAL. Not only that, but nobody is obligated to join the faction that their race/bloodline is a part of. If you want to be an Amarr who has given up on slavery, Faction Warfare will let you join the Minmatar.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.06 21:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus Quote: Let me introduce you to kali 2 ,and then my caldari friend you will be shot :) You could stand to introduce yourself to the multitude of dev postings explicitly stating that Faction Warfare will be OPTIONAL. Not only that, but nobody is obligated to join the faction that their race/bloodline is a part of. If you want to be an Amarr who has given up on slavery, Faction Warfare will let you join the Minmatar. Provided you have the correct standings. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
1of20	Posted - 2006.10.06 21:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Gaius Sejanus A sole benefit a one-man corporation has over what I have now is the ability to anchor a POS...something I have little interest in at this point. It does however, retain the drawbacks of having to pay office rent/setup fees (small as they may be, it's more than I pay now). I also don't have to waste valuable skill training time taking Corporate Management to 1 (and yes, it may only be about a 7 minute train, but that's 7 minutes utterly wasted to me) A one-man corporation also definitionally does not have 700+ people online 20+ hours of the day to chat with. I doubt even ASCN can boast that kind of number in alliance chat for more than fleeting periods of time. You forgot about having to also deal with the ever-increasing multitude of players who's sole purpose in life is to locate and identify solo or small corps(1-5 members) simply to wardec them.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.10.06 22:38:00 - [39] Its an interesting discussion. The protection offered by NPC corps is far too powerfull.The problems with experianced players and macro miners using said protection do not need repeating in length, but suffice to say you should not be free from recrimination for your actions with the simple click of a 'quit corp' button. On the other hand I have always held to the view that if your corp is being wardecced and it cannot defend itself then thats just a sign that the corp should not exist and that you are not ready for a corp. The NPC corps have always provided a useful refuge for those who have found this out the hard way. Personal war-decs initially sparked my interest, but the opportunities for 'true' grief play (and I use the word with caution as it is thrown around by carebears far too often when i gank em ) are far too great. Imposing limits on what one can do when in an NPC corp would seem to be the best route to follow. Taxation was already suggested, but the main culprits of NPC corp abuse (macro-isk sellers and transport alts) would be effected very little by this. It would be the people who are using the NPC corp as it was intended, a springboard for other things, that would be the worst hit. I would suggest a limit on pod-pilot interaction when in an NPC corp. No direct-trading, no isk transferals, no escrow (contracts) no gangs and a hard limit on both NPC agent levels and sell order numbers/isk values.I would also suggest making certain ships that were intended as corp ships(freighters, dreads etc) or very specialised (barges and possibly tech II vessles) be made off-limits to NPC corp pilots. The true rookie would not be much effected by these limits, but would be feeling enough of a pinch to be encouraged to get out of the NPC corp as soon as possible. The experianced pilot that is using the NPC corp to arteficially shield themselves from a core part of EvE (non-consensual PvP) would be seriously handycapped but still capable of shielding themselves from war-decs as a last resort, albeit at a price. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Elgar1 Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.06 22:45:00 - [40] Edited by: Elgar1 on 06/10/2006 22:45:27 The preventing macroing argument is just something they throw out there everytime they try to validate forcing something on other players. In fact it would do absolutely nothing to prevent macroing. Sure you could wardec, but as soon as war is declared, the macroers form a new corp. The macorers have plenty of ISK and income to support constantly renewing corps. The real, and only reason others want to FORCE you out of NPC corps is so they can gank you and force you to PvP. People here seem to not understand the word 'encourage'.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.06 23:33:00 - [41] JUst make the barge and exhumer skill require you to not be in a newbie corp. I think thats the best way around it. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Ukucia Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:00:00 - [42] Edited by: Ukucia on 07/10/2006 00:00:55 Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Imposing limits on what one can do when in an NPC corp would seem to be the best route to follow. Taxation was already suggested, but the main culprits of NPC corp abuse (macro-isk sellers and transport alts) would be effected very little by this. It would be the people who are using the NPC corp as it was intended, a springboard for other things, that would be the worst hit. NPC corps are used by more than noobs. There's lots of EvE players who want to play in an NPC corp. They're not even macrominers. Your suggestion greatly cripples their play for the relatively minor problem of macrominers. (Yes, they're a problem. No, they're not that big a problem right now. You were never supposed to get rich off veldspar). How 'bout this: Player corps can wardec the non-noob NPC corps. However, the containing entity and their allies set your standings to -10. So, you wardec The Scope, and every Gallente and Minmatar NPC and sentry shoots at you, and calls in reinforcements (Similar to Concord, but racial). Whenever you're in (or near) their space there would be some random chance of a fleet warping in on you. After all, you are declaring war on an Empire.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Ukucia You were never supposed to get rich off veldspar). Actually history has shown that the company/people who supply the common items are the richest people. Iron and Steel out did Gold, look at windows!! ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Yotah	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:20:00 - [44] Originally by: evistin JUst make the barge and exhumer skill require you to not be in a newbie corp. I think thats the best way around it. Sorry but I can't agree with this line of thinking. There are lots of people that don't want non-consensual PvP, and there's nothing wrong with that.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:28:00 - [45] I respect that, frankly the only way to deal with such players is suicide runs or low-sec combat. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Pairadice Caldari Paradise Venture	Posted - 2006.10.07 00:40:00 - [46] Heres what people need to get through their thick heads: CCP will never implement any type of system where a person cannot chose to PvP, simple as that. There will always be a choice, either pvp or dont. You will never be made or forced into any type of situation where you will have to pvp. There will never be a system in place where you can just go kill whoever you want, without any penalties, so just forget about it.
Hel O'Ween	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot On the other hand I have always held to the view that if your corp is being wardecced and it cannot defend itself then thats just a sign that the corp should not exist and that you are not ready for a corp. The NPC corps have always provided a useful refuge for those who have found this out the hard way. Uuh? And how are you supposed to start a new corp then? Spending two years in a NPC corp until you gather 200 other players (if that's enough) that are willing to form a corp with you that is capable of defending itself in the very rare case that all of a sudden one of the major corps finds it funny to just wardec you? Given that argument not a single player corp would exist. Leave it the way it is. It's just fine. It gets abused one or the other way by anybody. Macrominers hide themselves, Pirates circumvent sec status, Carebears circumvent wardecs, Alliances use alt spies. And they all complain about the other "abusing" the system while at the same time doing exactly the same thing, just with a different aspect.
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:34:00 - [48] ^ In TOTAL agreement. Your cheating is wrong, but mine is ok.
James Snowscoran Caldari Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.07 12:24:00 - [49] You can't physically force people out of npc corps because, as has been stated, CCP will never implement a system where people cannot avoid nonconsentual pvp. However, in line with the risk vs rewards argument, it is perfectly reasonable to put in some economic incentives to get out of an npc corp. PLayer corporations are more vulnerable to pvp (they can be wardecced) so it is only natural that there should be some economic incentives to forming your own corporation instead of staying in an npc one. - Separate between true newbies and npc corp dwellers. Move pilots from the newbie corp to the npc corp of their race after, say, 3 months. This is important, because noone really wants to target the newbies with any economical sanctions, they make little enough as it is. Thus, the following ideas are only intended for corporations like Caldari Provisions, The Scope, and their racial equivalents. - Income tax. It's been proposed before and I think it's a good idea; most corps have a tax of sorts, why shouldn't the npc corps have one? In return, they give you protection from would-be wardeccers. The important part about a tax would be that it MUST target miners as well as ratters/mission runners; hence, you need a tax on refining as well as npc bounties and mission rewards. The tax should probably not be very big, like 5% maybe. - Trading tax. I suggest double tax on transactions to target the traders in freighters. - Contract limitations. Higher cost of setting up contracts, and an upper limit on the amount of contracts you can have out. - People in player corporations (and newbie corps) should get priority in system queues, sneaking ahead of the npc corp dwellers -----
Miss Overlord Gallente BongBrothers Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.07 12:28:00 - [50] all noob corpers will be exposed to PVP when the NPC corps goto war with each other in cough kali (factional warfare) actually kali 2 i think so later this year. That will soon push em into player corps
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.07 12:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Miss Overlord all noob corpers will be exposed to PVP when the NPC corps goto war with each other in cough kali (factional warfare) actually kali 2 i think so later this year. That will soon push em into player corps Hehe, I dont think thats quite the way things will go down... =) But if it is, im setting up a Tempest to snipe newbies outside Jita 4-4. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:36:00 - [52] Actually, CCP have made it quite clear, on several occasions, that the factional warfare in Kali (whatever iteration) will be optional, so no, it will not drive players out of the NPC corps. Maybe though it will address the lamers who wardec small corps for ****s and giggles all the time, removing one of the barriers for players to leave the NPC corps. In this case, as in so many others, the carrot works better than the stick. Something most 12-year old noob griefers apparently can't grasp.
Lady Trade	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:42:00 - [53] I'd be happy to see something like taht you can get expelled from a noob corp if your sec rating is falling below 0.0:)
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:54:00 - [54] Expelled to where exactly? Oh, right, another NPC corps. Right. NEXT!
Clone Delta	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:03:00 - [55] once you induce - coerce - force - carebear players into player corps - when they do not what to be there, other than the tax how are you going to make them do anything? And don't kid yourselves - a 5,10, 15 or 20% tax on a NPC corp would **** me off but not encourage me to join a player corp.
Benco97 Gallente Fedo Appreciation Group	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:14:00 - [56] People say that it is not fair that they should have to leave their NPC corps, I say it's not fair that you can't be wardecced whilst everyone else can be irrespective of if they want to or not. It is not a level playing field. you say we are not allowed to stop you playing how you want? what makes you allowed to stop people playing how THEY want? (which is to wardec you) It needs sorting, some sort of timer in which they can stay in the npc corp before they are automatically shunted to ANOTHER NPC corp which can be war'd (I reccomend having LOTS of these secondary NPC corps and limiting their max size) Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group (FAG) and Registered Fedo breeder (Sig kindly supplied by Zurtur)
Hillary Rodham	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Jim McGregor Hehe, I dont think thats quite the way things will go down... =) But if it is, im setting up a Tempest to snipe newbies outside Jita 4-4. Cretins like you are proof CCP will never allow player Corps to wardec NPC Corps. I would summon the humor to educate you on the concept of 'Diminishing Returns', but I frankly doubt you possess the faculty to grasp even that simple concept.
Vaeldan Athargan	Posted - 2006.10.07 22:16:00 - [58] Edited by: Vaeldan Athargan on 07/10/2006 22:23:43 On the other hand I have always held to the view that if your corp is being wardecced and it cannot defend itself then thats just a sign that the corp should not exist and that you are not ready for a corp. That statement simply paints you as a PVPer who has no grasp of what anyone else in this game wishes to do with their time and money. The statement implies that you don't give a damn about what other people would like, only what you would like. I'll give you an example to support my statement (a rare debating tactic around here, perhaps): My wife will not play this game because she reads all about the 'public opinion' of Eve (the scams, the PVP pirates, etc). She refuses to put time into building things and playing the market on this game because anyone, and I do mean anyone, could at any moment cost her millions of ISK by destroying her ship en route with a large haul of manufactured goods. So why play? In your implied line of thinking, if you cannot or will not PVP other players to keep them happy, you have no right to play this game. That sounds close to extortion, don't you think? Protection entertainment racketeering? "If you dont play our game, we'll make sure you pay for it." sort of statement? So let's reverse the conversation here and see who starts screaming: Why doesn't CCP slap a hefty tax increase, oh let's say another 20%, on any corp or alliance in a War? This money doesn't go to the corp, but is ISK-sunk. or... Why doesn't CCP slap a hefty cost for attacking non-involved players in high-sec space? Say you attack a 3-person mining corp in 0.7 space who has never once attacked other players or been in a war? Suddenly your wardec costs you 1000%, and that money goes to the wardec-ed corp. People want to start these arguments from the PVP/Griefer side of play, then the opposite arguments from the other style of player should be just as valid. But I'll lay dollars to doughnuts that this sort of argument will, of course, be argued by the very people arguing for the NPC corp idea. It'll be interesting to see their views. The fact of the matter is this: There are two types of players of MMOs. The loud vocal side of things that will scream and complain at the drop of any change, or stomp their feet to try and institute change that benefits their own desires... and the quiet type that will play the game their own way and leave once it becomes a hassle or isn't fun anymore. The former will almost always outlast the latter, and games suffer when it happens. CCP understands this. Kudos to them.
Hillary Rodham	Posted - 2006.10.07 22:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Benco97 People say that it is not fair that they should have to leave their NPC corps, I say it's not fair that you can't be wardecced whilst everyone else can be irrespective of if they want to or not. Translation: "I want my right to abuse you; how dare you think you have the right to avoid being my victim!" Quote: It is not a level playing field. you say we are not allowed to stop you playing how you want? what makes you allowed to stop people playing how THEY want? (which is to wardec you) Good thinkng Einstein! You should be the next Chairman of Airbus! Here's a clue for you, and I'll say it s-l-o-w-l-y, so even people like you could understand: When YOU pay my $15 per month, then and only then do you get to tell ME how to play the game. Is it clear now, Sunshine?
Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.07 23:52:00 - [60] Not one person here has posted anything about 'ENCOURAGING' players to leave NPC corps in favor of player run ones. You are all talking about penalties and restrictions in an attempt to FORCE them out. If you want players to voluntarily leave the NPC corps then give them a GOOD reason to want to join a player corp. Don't go making suggestions on how to make the NPC corp less appealing, but make the player corps MORE appealing. How about these. 1. Higher yelds from refining/reprocessing if you are in a Player run corp. 2. Higher paid bounties to player corp members. 3. Better missions for those in player owned corps. 3. New areas that are only accessable to characters in player owned corps. ALL of the above add something to player owned corps which might entice players to leave their NPC ones. None of the above attempt to force them out, and none of the above hit the NPC corps with Nerf bats. Stop calling for nerfs when claiming the suggestions are an encouragement for players to leave NPC corps. It's NOT encouraging players if you are restricting or nerfing what they already have.

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