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Delta Naskingar
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.02.20 11:08:19 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
Iam starting to realize that i nead to do a remap i am all over the skill tree. I have playd EVE 4 weeks now and in the beginning dident knowe what i wanted to do, so i did everything. I now knowe that i want to focus on PVP. So my Question. How does remap work. If i do a remap do i get all my SP in a big pile, so i can start skilling upp where i want, without training time. or do you start from scratch. |
Ryder 'ook
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
120
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Posted - 2015.02.20 11:22:17 -
[2] - Quote
You don't "need" a remap that early in the game. As a beginner, you need to be able to skill all over the place.
If you want, you can do a partial Int/Per (Intelligence and Perception 21, all other 19) remap and don't worry about it until much later.
Don't sweat it. Remaps are most useful when you train for advanced stuff in a focused way and this won't happen anytime soon.
Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
705
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Posted - 2015.02.20 11:23:08 -
[3] - Quote
Link to Eve Uni's Wiki
Remapping in eve is for attributes only. You can not remap your skills.
You say you are all over the skill tree, so you should not remap. Only remap your attributes if you know what you will be training for the long term.
Once you use the bonus remaps up, there is a 12 month cooldown before you can remap again. |
Delta Naskingar
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.02.20 12:17:31 -
[4] - Quote
It feels that i have wasted SP on skills that i dont going to use. Mybe i nead them further down the road, but not now.
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Major Trant
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1300
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Posted - 2015.02.20 12:19:29 -
[5] - Quote
Most of the common skills fall into two brackets, ones that require Intelligence and Memory, usually the support skills (Engineering, Electronics, Mechanical, Scanning, Industry) and ones that require Perception and Willpower, usually the fighting skills (Guns, Missiles and Ships).
Usually a player can only remap their attributes once a year, but a new players gets two bonus remaps. There are basically 14 floating attributes that you can move around when remapping. You are start out with 3 in each (2 in Charisma) and you can put up to 10 into any one skill during a remap.
The way I did it was to remap 10 to Intelligence, 4 to Memory and then train Support skills + drones. Then remap and put 10 in Perception, 4 in Willpower and train the fighting skills. Basically the attributes you remap to, will allow faster training in skills that utilize those attributes.
You can do a show info on any skill to see the primary and secondary attributes that effect their training time.
To remap open your character sheet and select the relevant tab which is about the forth one down. It will show you're current attributes, how long before you can use your regular remap, any bonus remaps available and a button labelled "Remap Now". You can go in for a look and play around and then cancel out without losing a remap.
If you have bonus remaps and the regular remap available for immediate use, it will use the regular remap first. Preserving the bonus ones and starting the 1 year cool down timer on the regular remap.
An above poster has suggested a 7/7 remap for Intelligence and Perception. This I would call an advanced remap for a veteran player who had trained most of the skills, is just topping up the remainder and is likely to jump around. While it might be useful to an indecisive noob. Really you should have so many skills you need to train, that you can afford to prioritize one set (Support or Combat) remap accordingly and bulk train only those skills for a couple of months, then use a bonus remap and bulk train the other set for a longer period and then switch back to the first set to top off or move to a more specialized mapping for a specific set of skills (eg leadership).
Before making your first remap, spend a few days training essential skills that will be penalized by the remap. Eg if you are going to start with the Support Skills, train a few Combat skills to cover you, before you gimp their attributes. |
Ryder 'ook
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
120
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Posted - 2015.02.20 12:41:10 -
[6] - Quote
Major Trant, you misunderstood me slightly.
I did not suggest a 7/7 Int/Per remap.
I did actually suggest a 4/4 Int/Per (all others 2) remap, which has served me well as some kind of "universal" attribute distribution.
Once you get to stuff where remapping actually matters, you can change that. But in the first year (in my case even 2 years) that won't probably be necessary.
Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1184
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Posted - 2015.02.20 13:48:54 -
[7] - Quote
Don't bother with remaps till you have an actual clue of what you want to be doing. Also, don't make massively long skills plans: they never work out anyway and you force yourself to "wait till you have # SP". If you want to do combat related stuff you're fine to go for a perc/int remap. In the end you lose about 5% total SP compared to a super OCD, fully worked out plan using up all 3 remaps. Simply put, it's not worth the effort to specialise remaps early on.
Only once you start to train a ton of T2 stuff or have so much SP that you can just stick to a specific type for a long time does it make sense to use very specific remaps. |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5844
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:05:50 -
[8] - Quote
First of all:
Once you trained a skill, it's trained. There is NO way to untrain a skill (unless CCP does it for you by removing skills, they will then reimburse the SP put into the skill they delete).
A remaps is NOT giving you back SP you already have accumulated, all it does is remap your attributes, and thus affect training time on skills you still have to train.
THAT is a big difference, and from the looks, you are looking at the wrong part of it.
TL:DR - A remap does NOT give back SP already spent on skills. It does NOT give you a bunch of SP you can allocate at your own leasure. Currently there is NO way to re-distribute any skillpoints you have assigned somewhere (once you trained a skill, it's there to stay). Remaps are there to change attributes, which will affect training times of skills yet to train.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Memphis Baas
175
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:13:45 -
[9] - Quote
Remap doesn't give you back your skillpoints. Remap just sets your attributes differently, so you can train some skills faster and others slower, from now on.
PVP character will need:
- ship skills (require Perception, Willpower) - weapon skills (require Willpower, Perception) - support skills (armor, shields, targeting, etc) (require Intelligence, Memory).
Industry character needs:
- industry skills (require Memory, Intelligence) - reprocessing skills (require Memory, Intelligence) - maybe some trade skills (require Willpower, Charisma)
So if you wanted to train an industry character, you would reset your attributes to maximum Memory and Intelligence, which will make you train the industry skills faster, but train ship and weapon skills slower.
As a PVP character, though, because you need to train ships, weapons, and support, it's probably better to leave your attributes at even, so that all those skills train at average speed. In about a year, when you train for some of the big ships that can take months to train one skill, you can remap your attributes to Per Wil to speed that up, then go back to Int / Mem to catch up with the support skills. |
Major Trant
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1300
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Posted - 2015.02.20 14:49:05 -
[10] - Quote
Ryder 'ook wrote:Major Trant, you misunderstood me slightly.
I did not suggest a 7/7 Int/Per remap.
I did actually suggest a 4/4 Int/Per (all others 2) remap, which has served me well as some kind of "universal" attribute distribution.
Once you get to stuff where remapping actually matters, you can change that. But in the first year (in my case even 2 years) that won't probably be necessary. You are right I misread your post,my apologies. However, your suggestion is actually worse than the common 77000 remap, when starting at the default 33332. To go from that to 44222, only changing 2 attribute points is a complete waste of a remap. |
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
293
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Posted - 2015.02.20 15:11:44 -
[11] - Quote
Honestly on the new toon i have started. A PvP one, i just max perception and then willpower. You can optimize, but if your going to fly while you train then this optimization does not take into account what you can do right *now* is often more important than that extra 2M SP at the end of the year.
Since even this character has about 60% (20M out of 35M) of his skills in Gunnery, Spaceship command and missiles. I may use the remap i have now for training drones to get into carriers... but perhaps not.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Major Trant
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
1300
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Posted - 2015.02.20 15:48:27 -
[12] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:As a PVP character, though, because you need to train ships, weapons, and support, it's probably better to leave your attributes at even, so that all those skills train at average speed. In about a year, when you train for some of the big ships that can take months to train one skill, you can remap your attributes to Per Wil to speed that up, then go back to Int / Mem to catch up with the support skills. I get what Memphis and others are saying here. But, they are missing the point of those 2 bonus remaps. They are there specifically so that new players can jump around and maximize the effects of a remap without being penalized with a one year timer. Later on when you only have obscure skills or a few useful ones here and there left, remaps are less effective. Remaps save a significant percentage of time, it doesn't matter whether that is made up of one long skill or multiple small ones.
Most new players are going to want to train both combat and support skills early on. Two sets of skills that need different pairs of attributes. There is weeks of training time on both sets, so it is feasible to map to one set for say 2 months and just train those skills exclusively to level III and IV and then remap to the other set for say 4 months and train those exclusively to level IV and V. Then come back to the first set and finish them off, by which time your regular remap timer is coming to an end.
You do need to research the skills that benefit which remap and then be strict in your plan. You can literally shave months of training time off, approximately 35%, especially if you complement the remap with one +4 Implant for the primary attribute and one +3 Implant for the secondary, total cost around 28M per remap set.
It really is a no brainer, but you do have to go through every skill, list which are important, what are their primary and secondary attributes, group them into the two main sets, then just train them in their groups when you are mapped for those groups. Decide which group you are going to start with and then train absolutely vital skills from the other group before the first remap.
Going through every skill is tedious, but frankly every pilot should do it early in their career and understand what is available to them.
eg (Gallente pilot): 1. Train Gallente Frigate IV, Small Hybrids IV, Gallente Destroyer IV, a few Gunnery skills to IV, basic navigation skills to III/IV 2. Remap Intelligence/Memory 3. Train Support and Drone skills in general to III/IV, a few to V eg Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic, Weapon Upgrades, Drones. 4. Remap Perception/Willpower 5. Train Major Combat and Ship skills to IV/V
During this latter phase you will gain pretty decent sub cap skills and can choose to specialize in more exotic Gallente ships or start cross training to other races ships and still have a remap left to go back to the original mapping or go to a more specialized one, by which time you will have a better idea where you want to go and what final mapping would be best. Meanwhile the regular remap timer will have mostly wound down giving you a forth remap at the end of your first year in Eve.
Some skills have obscure attribute pairs, or a common one reversed. Leadership, trade, drones, navigation for example. These you will probably never have a perfect remap for, so here is where the compromise is. You have to train them unoptimized or only half optimized using best fit. Drones with the Support set, Navigation with the Combat set for example. Or specialize and use that last bonus remap for them. |
Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
137
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Posted - 2015.02.20 15:59:54 -
[13] - Quote
People have already pointed out where you went wrong. As an example of "know what you want to do" with a remap the one time I did this was to train all the pvp leadership skills to 5 (except FC) because I knew I was going to be inactive (except to change skills) for a long time. Leadership training benefits from remaps compared to other pvp related skills. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
377
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:00:13 -
[14] - Quote
Early on in the game you need to be able to train all over the place you don't want to have a focused remap. You may think you know what you want to do but things could change tomorrow and often do. Early on I had people tell me that new players didn't need charisma that charisma was for fleet skills and corp management skills so I could remap those attribute points into something else. Then I found you needed charisma for agent relation skills and redcuing market cost and training up for jump clones.
I can pretty much garuntee that if you get a focused remap early on you will regret it. However like you said you have 2 freebies. So if you want to learn what I just told you from experience then do so just make sure that before you get yourself into a long term remap timer that you have a fairly even attribute distribution. |
Orlacc
803
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Posted - 2015.02.20 20:06:53 -
[15] - Quote
Delta Naskingar wrote:It feels that i have wasted SP/time on skills that i dont going to use. Mybe i nead them further down the road, but not now.
Yes that is the case. You probably will. But no way to reset SP.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
167
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Posted - 2015.02.22 05:42:30 -
[16] - Quote
Several theories on what you should remap your attributes to and in many ways I would not argue with them as they would serve you well.
With that said it has been my experience with new players that for the first 3 months or so as you experiment with new things it is best to leave your attributes as evenly distributed as possible. Once you better understand the whole idea of remapping, how it can affect your skill training and where you want to go with your training that is the time to consider a remap.
Another reason to save the remap for later is how little time you will actually gain. For a lot of the level 1 - 4 skills the difference in training time can be as little as 1 to 2 minutes on a 24 hour train so there is very little to be gained by using a remap now. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2006
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Posted - 2015.02.22 08:04:30 -
[17] - Quote
My suggestion is to leave your remap alone unless you have a long-term set course for skill training. Otherwise I hve only used it to remap charisma points to other locations since I don't train those skills very much. |
Delta Naskingar
Minmatar Confederate
9
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Posted - 2015.02.23 05:36:27 -
[18] - Quote
Thx all :-) meny god points and tips. Cheers |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4621
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Posted - 2015.02.23 06:22:30 -
[19] - Quote
Wow, a remap thread I'm late to...
In general I'd rate the importance of attributes as: INT = PER >> MEM = WIL >>> CHA. Specializing can shift the importance.
I consider 2000 SP/hour the minimum training rate I'd recommend. This doesn't mean that I don't train skills that are under that amount, but rather I try to keep the time training such skills to a minimum. Note that 2700 SP/hour is the maximum possible.
If you search the forums for "remap" you will find lots of posts by me. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3095907#post3095907
Example of what only changing your attributes once looks like after nearly 6 years with a general mapping (average of 2,411.48 SP/hour). Notice that having low PER & WIL doesn't prevent one from training those skills (ships, missiles, turrets, T2 ships), though the character is primarily a drone user. |
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