Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
LordQ
Caldari Warlords Corp
|
Posted - 2006.10.10 05:09:00 -
[31]
Well Dampening wont be a big problem cause teams start 30km away from each other. One sensor booster II and you might need several dampeners to cut targetting range below 30km.
LordQ
|
MECTO
|
Posted - 2006.10.10 06:09:00 -
[32]
very good rules, will be interesting
|
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.10.10 07:54:00 -
[33]
Good choice of rules. Should be a lot more interesting this year. Almost makes me want to enter.
|
Silvero
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.10 23:01:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Silvero on 10/10/2006 23:04:11 oops wrong thread, moving it to disc...
|
Constantinee
Caldari Eradication Defined
|
Posted - 2006.10.11 02:21:00 -
[35]
Well i cant open the file on my computer guess i need to figure out why i cant probably just the format. In other words im reading what you all say and imho ECM is not fit for a tourny like this. Yes it can be counterd by eccm but if you have 4 hsips trying to jam you one eccm countermeasure wont really do much. wont really comment on anything else until i can actually open the file and see what the rules really are. anyway sad about the pairing dates i honestly hope those are not the match dates. if not any news on when those will be? hope its on a christmas time then i wont have to skip my classes for college everyday to watch the tourny :D.
Want a Cheap sig? |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.11 09:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: LeMonde
Originally by: ookke unlimited ECM will make the tournament a big joke. I can already imagine ravens with 5x ECM II and armortank... or even worse, ECM-CNR.
24 points and 5 ships will be more than able to permalock up the other team while running logistics bots on it's own team. How will this make the matches any shorter or interesting, when the only dmg dealt is a couple of attack drones that were assigned before the owner got jammed?
It will also be a big lottery about who has damps, who has ecm, who has more sensor boosters, who has eccm, who has better luck on jams instead of a match about piloting skill and setups.
I think you're giving too much credit to ECM. There are several ship setups where you have three big ships and 2-4 extra points for Tech 1 frigates or destroyers. ECCM projectors/remote sensor boosters can be very useful on those
You are forgetting that a ship with ECCM projectors, especially a frigate with such, is essentially without protection and a free kill. This might seem like a semi-good idea, let the enemies waste the first few rounds on the frigates and you get an early advantage, but it's not. "Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has more kills will be declared victor." Or, in other words, the team with ECCM frigates will be giving free win-points away to the other team. You do not even have a rules clausule which states what conditions would stop a fight before 15 minutes!
Oh, and by the way, he's not giving too much credit to ECM. It is a combat ruiner - especially on the fun-and-exciting side. It creates frustration and angst, you can not do anything about it (no, ECCM doesn't work well enough - barely comparable to sensor booster and doesn't even give a possitive side effect). That alone should be reason enough to skip ECM from the tournament - they aren't entertaining. - Three years old |
Mextor
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
|
Posted - 2006.10.11 12:43:00 -
[37]
Question. how will you be contacting the alliances to find out who the reps will be. Full Stats
|
Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.10.12 14:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ithildin
You are forgetting that a ship with ECCM projectors, especially a frigate with such, is essentially without protection and a free kill. This might seem like a semi-good idea, let the enemies waste the first few rounds on the frigates and you get an early advantage, but it's not. "Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has more kills will be declared victor." Or, in other words, the team with ECCM frigates will be giving free win-points away to the other team. You do not even have a rules clausule which states what conditions would stop a fight before 15 minutes!
Oh, and by the way, he's not giving too much credit to ECM. It is a combat ruiner - especially on the fun-and-exciting side. It creates frustration and angst, you can not do anything about it (no, ECCM doesn't work well enough - barely comparable to sensor booster and doesn't even give a possitive side effect). That alone should be reason enough to skip ECM from the tournament - they aren't entertaining.
So just put them on a tougher ship. The points system allows you not have to use frigates. The projected ECCM modules can boost your sensor strength by 120% or so depending on the module. It would be alot like logistics helping out each other. And anyone using ECM is also going to be sacrificing something on their ship. If they do a Scorpion or Raven, they sacrifice on their shield tank. They can try to armor tank but they won't do it as well as most other ships. Then you also have to look at FoF missiles or drones that may be already deployed when the target began the aggression.
|
Sir JoJo
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 09:26:00 -
[39]
havent read all replys, but only thing i have to say
Rules are a Disgrace to the minmatar race especially there recons ships, if ecm is allowed why then restrcitions on webs and painters. u coulse just have made a rule of no minmatar recons allowed.
*snip* Don't be nasty [email protected] to discuss mod - Cathath i am not nasty |
Ikvar
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 11:17:00 -
[40]
This just gets stupider every time they do it
|
|
Elve Sorrow
Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.13 17:49:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Derran So just put them on a tougher ship. The points system allows you not have to use frigates. The projected ECCM modules can boost your sensor strength by 120% or so depending on the module. It would be alot like logistics helping out each other. And anyone using ECM is also going to be sacrificing something on their ship. If they do a Scorpion or Raven, they sacrifice on their shield tank. They can try to armor tank but they won't do it as well as most other ships. Then you also have to look at FoF missiles or drones that may be already deployed when the target began the aggression.
Technically, youre right. There is one thing about that though: ECM, while requiring sacrifices, always helps. Wether the other side has ECCM or not, it does its job. ECCM does fck all though if your enemy doesnt use ECM.
Which is a fairly important difference.
|
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 08:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sir JoJo havent read all replys, but only thing i have to say
Rules are a Disgrace to the minmatar race especially there recons ships, if ecm is allowed why then restrcitions on webs and painters. u coulse just have made a rule of no minmatar recons allowed.
Yeah I think your right. Before ECM was allowed it made some sense. But not its kind of a pointless rule. I think it is to try an stop the SMASH style hold them at range, kill their small ships and win on points count.
|
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Minmatar Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna
|
Posted - 2006.10.14 15:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shin Ra Yeah I think your right. Before ECM was allowed it made some sense. But not its kind of a pointless rule. I think it is to try an stop the SMASH style hold them at range, kill their small ships and win on points count.
Hmmm, sounds right. Perhaps with allout ECM being allowed in, the rules could be looked at in regards to painters and webbers again.
A minmatar recon setup squad is gonna suffer to a jamming squad just as bad as any other.
|
H3licon
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 01:09:00 -
[44]
The .pdf was written by someone who spells "ammount" instead of "amount". That's scary.
|
Sir JoJo
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 04:21:00 -
[45]
Originally by: H3licon The .pdf was written by someone who spells "ammount" instead of "amount". That's scary.
or the .pdf is written by a human whos able to do error's such as mis click on hes keyboard, thats what makes us humans
The Rules is a disgrace for Minmatar |
Zaethiel
Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.15 06:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Zaethiel on 15/10/2006 06:13:29 I would still like to see the point system looked at a little more. Maybe you could revise the ship point system more by uping the maximum to 50 points and raising all the ship points accordingly. It would give you more maneuverability in setting restrictions on the ships used.
Example would be: (50 points max) Faction Battleships ......................22 Tier 3 Battleship ........................20 Tier 2 Battleship ........................19 Tier 1 Battleship ........................18 T2 Battle cruiser ........................16 T2 Cruiser ...............................14 T1 Battle cruiser ........................12 T1 Cruiser ...............................11 T2 Frigate ...............................10 T2 Destroyer .............................9 T1 Destroyer .............................8 T1 Frigate ...............................8
i just threw that example together really fast, but you can see how more flexible and precise you can limit ship combos rather than just starting at 12 and counting down to 1. _________________________________________
|
Ramuh
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 12:28:00 -
[47]
The points system is fine. It forces people who want to field the best ships to have fewer numbers, which is quite fair imho.
60km radius is fine. It should be marked by something and no stupid debris in the way.
Five pilots is the most you can field without resorting to frig swarms (which would be interesting actually). I think LeMonde has got the number right here. It should prompt people to think out of the box and acutally come up with cool stratagies.
T2 ammo being allowed, I'm 50/50 on this one. On one hand it will allow smaller ships to get nicer damamge, but it may make the raven too uber (one shotting frigs with precision cruise). Either way, people loose out, so I would say keep it in. BUT!!!! : If u take out t2 missles, you have to take out t2 drones.
All ECM, dampners, tracking disruptors should be allowed as this a pvp tournament not a who can tank the best competition.
Cap boosters should be allowed as they will almost certainly not last for 15 minutes and therefor are not i-win buttons. I don't agree that ships should be able to give each other cap booster charges by dropping cans tho.
|
Zaethiel
Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 14:10:00 -
[48]
Who needs to tank when you can jam everyone =) _________________________________________
|
Angeldust
Omega Fleet Enterprises Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.16 22:00:00 -
[49]
Is it just me or is there no rule preventing podkilling this time ?
|
Logan Fyreite
Vexillum Nox Rogue Method Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.17 17:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sir JoJo havent read all replys, but only thing i have to say
Rules are a Disgrace to the minmatar race especially there recons ships, if ecm is allowed why then restrcitions on webs and painters. u coulse just have made a rule of no minmatar recons allowed.
Can we Minmatars get some clarification here. How is it that every other race comes into this with no restrictions but we get slapped with the worst. I guess on the good side this will drive the prices of Huginn and Rapier down (I like that idea). I just want a mod to give the reasoning behind this. There has been no response as to why exactly webs and TP's are being restricted. With all the ECM gobbledy**** how are Painters and webs going to make such a huge difference?
please?
|
|
Malicious Wraith
The Dark Side of the Moon
|
Posted - 2006.10.17 20:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Malicious Wraith on 17/10/2006 20:49:52 These rules are excellent as they are put down, I am against any modifications.
Except for one thing:
If pirate implants are allowed, no podkilling.
Better if you just provide jump clones to everyone to remove that factor, but I am going to take a guess that ccp really wants pirate implants by the fact that you didnt leave it red, and in effect open for discussion ^.- ----------------------------------------
|
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.18 19:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Malicious Wraith Edited by: Malicious Wraith on 17/10/2006 20:49:52 These rules are excellent as they are put down, I am against any modifications.
Except for one thing:
If pirate implants are allowed, no podkilling.
Better if you just provide jump clones to everyone to remove that factor, but I am going to take a guess that ccp really wants pirate implants by the fact that you didnt leave it red, and in effect open for discussion ^.-
Actually, if you review the rules you'll see that if you pod-kill someone else, the least that happens is your team gets disqualified. More severe punishments if it was clearly intentional. At least, that's what's happened in every other tournament so far. - What am I listening to? |
Valrandir
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.19 17:36:00 -
[53]
Stop whining and build up the best possible team setup according to the current ruleset. Then get in the tournament doing your best to win.
ECM is allowed, so what? It's the same pro and con for both teams, and someone's going to win.
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
|
Valrandir
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2006.10.19 17:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Angeldust Is it just me or is there no rule preventing podkilling this time ?
Pod kill is not allowed.
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware.
|
Flipidy Floo
|
Posted - 2006.10.22 21:40:00 -
[55]
I hate ECM being allowed, now you know every team will have to have it and it's going to be sooo boring.
Also, the points are too low, it's focused to much around small ship combat. If it does stay that low, you need to allow more than one battleship. It's not allowing for much diversity otherwise. Also, Battleships generally have the best resistance to ECM, so they have a better chance of surviving with backups than other ships do. It at least balances that factor a bit.
T2 ammo is cool, it should have been allowed last time.
cap injectors should be allowed only if t2 ammo is. It'll balance the tank and gank factors.
|
Robet Katrix
Beagle Corp R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2006.10.23 21:47:00 -
[56]
t2 ammo and ECM. its gonna be helluva interesting. the CNR's will now have javs though :( i feel sorry for the dictors.
the restrictions on TP's and Webs are understandable, but by allowing t2 ammo you remove the need to limit them.
its gonna be a caldari mess nonetheless. i wonder if someone will actually try and use rage torps?
lotta possibilities
|
Trevedian
Amarr KR0M The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2006.10.23 22:18:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Trevedian on 23/10/2006 22:24:59
I'd like to see a few more points (25-27) but otherwise I'm fine with the rules as they are. No matter what the rules are, people will adapt and EW will make it very unpredictable.
I heard BOB (Band Of Blobbers) was threatening to boycott because EW added too much variation to the mix and they couldn't use the same boring 1 trick pony they used last time. (/emote sniffles)
People will not be able to fit turtle tanks like last time if they are using EW/ Counter EW, and if they don't fit counter EW... There goes their ability to remote rep :)
I am a little worried about the EW changes happening so close to the tourney, but I won't whine or threaten a boycott (like some), I'll adapt...
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
|
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.24 23:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Trevedian ..meh..
Trevidian, classy as always.
Having won the last two tournaments your little digs are not going to do much other than go sailing off unheaded in the wind.
We have nothing to prove. The fact that you need to bring schoolboy level jibes to this thread suggests you feel that you have.
You are correct in one thing though, we are considering whether to participate or not. Which way the decisions go regarding the outstanding items highlighted by LeMonde will help us make our decision.
However, we won't be 'boycotting' the tournament in some drama queen-esque type fashion as you are attempting to suggest, we will simply choose not to participate for our own reasons.
It is my hope that the sensible people on the committee deciding the final rules will come to a decision that makes us want to participate. Win or lose it would be very dissappointing not to be there to defend our title.
As far as the rules themselves are concerned I think there is a very simple decision that the organisers and rules committee have to address and that is the question of what the purpose of the tournament is - what is the vision that the tournament is attempting to achieve? Is the tournament to be a measure of PvP skill or is the tournament to be an entertainment spectacle or is the tournament to be a reflection of an alliances strength across all aspects of the game?
If the tournament is meant to be a measure of PvP skill then there should be no fitting restrictions in terms of number or type of modules. Fighting should be as close to Tranquility actual as possible but have a relatively even playing field.
If the tournament is to be an entertainment spectacle then excessive tanking and EW should be restricted. Fights need to be glorious, full of explosions and have little chance of reaching a stalemate.
If the tournament is to be a reflection of an alliance's strength across all aspects of the game then there should be no restriction in terms of expense and type of modules allowed.
I would prefer, personally, a version of either the first or second vision for the tournament.
In the case of the first I would, if allowing EW, remove all restrictions in terms of module numbers, module types, ship types and ammunition types with the exception of not allowing faction/complex/officer modules i.e. allow the full variety of ships and fittings found on Tranquility but not allowing alliances to buy a win. Let combat in the tournament be as close as possible to normal gameplay but with the points system left in place to challenge all round knowledge of PvP tactics, complementary ship selection and therefore teamwork.
In the case of the second I would not allow EW and I would restrict remote tanking. Both EW and excessive tanking lead to fights potentially lasting an eternity which is no good for entertainment, coming to no satisfactory conclusion which is again not good for entertainment or lastly introduce a random factor in EW. Whilst on the surface the introduction of a random factor such as the EW dice rolling mechanism seems entertaining I believe it will potentially lead to very boring and lengthy fights (jam and counterjam, little damage, reduction in exploderisations etc.), it will promote chance vs skill therefore belittling achievement and lastly will lead to a lot of sore losers blaming bad luck.
The third suggestion I made regarding zero restrictions on the ships and modules allowed would simply allow an alliance to buy it's way to a win. I would not support that vision for the tournament despite the fact that a totally 'gloves off' and 'everything allowed' set of rules would more truly reflect on a whole alliance's PvP capabilities in game terms and their relative pecking order on Tranquility. The loss of the ability for a smaller, less well off or less recognised alliance to knock one of the big boys off their pedestal is definitely not worth the realistic reflection of life on TQ though, in my opinion.
|
Derrios
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.10.26 04:48:00 -
[59]
not sure if this has been adressed. We get 4 points to additionally add throughout the whole tourney. Can these points be split between multiple fights or all 4 at once? -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter hmm blowing ascn carebears in empire ?
can i join ?
|
Celesta Croft
Caldari Agony Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.10.30 20:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Blacklight
The third suggestion I made regarding zero restrictions on the ships and modules allowed would simply allow an alliance to buy it's way to a win. I would not support that vision for the tournament despite the fact that a totally 'gloves off' and 'everything allowed' set of rules would more truly reflect on a whole alliance's PvP capabilities in game terms and their relative pecking order on Tranquility. The loss of the ability for a smaller, less well off or less recognised alliance to knock one of the big boys off their pedestal is definitely not worth the realistic reflection of life on TQ though, in my opinion.
Not to nitpick but the only way option 3 would be "gloves off" is if podding was allowed. I suppose the same could be said about podding in suggestion 1.
Truthfully, id much rather see fights where theres the possiblity of a warp out (to an extent, 1AU distance, 1 other spot to warp to). Failure to land inside the area results in a ring out+instapop. I would definitely enjoy some qualty interdictoring/mobile warp disruptor action. Use picture in picture for all I care so we can watch both locations. At least then the frigates would have something extra to do.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |