you should buy it if you want more sp, or sp allocated in a different way to currently.

not sure why you needed such an obvious thing explaining to you, but there you go.


no, sp remaps are not the right tool for that, correct planning of your skill queue is the right tool for that.

Well there are other options...

One thing I was thinking about is rewarding SPs for PVP. If you blow up another player's ship, you get a small amount of SP towards your skill currently in training.
The actual amount would depend on the relative value of the ship blown up versus ship(s) on the killmail. I.e. you get pretty much nothing from destroying rookie ships, while a t2 cruiser or a BS would give you a fair bit.
If you pod another player then the amount would be determined by the relative SP difference. Podding an old player could be quite lucrative, while killing a newbie would grant almost nothing.

In both cases the victim would be a subject to diminishing returns. Alternatively, victim could lose the same amount of SP if diminishing returns is not enough to deal with abuse.

A notable side effect: Invigorated PVP.

Side effect 2: ships blowing up more = outflow of excess ISK


I mean this isn't anything new. It is pretty much how rewards system work in any PvP game worth the title.


Thoughts?

And this is why I say no to any remap at all. People complain that skill X has changed so they want to remap to skill Y which is still effective. Where does it end? Patches come through every 6 weeks, what if you remap after one patch only to find the next patch nerfs something else you do? Then you petition for 4 remaps per year? 6 remaps? It would never end, and the same applies to any means of buying/remapping SP - it will never be enough because of *reasons*. Much better to keep it at the current relatively fair system.

If a skill is changed and is no longer useful in your current playstyle then adapt, either change playstyle or train other skills. Whilst the skill(s) in question were viable a player using those skills got the benefit of having them. I see the nerfs etc as a balancing mechanism of sorts that allow newer players to effectively 'catch up' to older players in the skills of the current meta as everybody ends up training into the new meta skillset from a more level playing field.

PLEX for remaps? ok.

If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.

Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.

There really is no reason, but there's no reason to let everyone reskill constantly either. It would absolutely break the game if implemented without limits or downsides.

I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.

Massive thread, admittedly too lazy to read it all.

But under the notion "once you can fly it you will always be able fly it"

If I train into a capital, could I then theoretically just pay to reallocate the requirement skills that have nothing to do with actually flying the cap(but are required to get to that point) and reallocate them to the cap support skills needed to fly it well?

Kind of like skill leapfrog, which would end up possibly dramatically shortening cap and super cap pilots times.

Even if I could only allocate a percentage of the support skills, it still seems counter to the point of having to initially train those skills in the first place

Or even just buying generic characters and paying an extra fee to fine tune a newly purchased alt to your liking.


Too much immediate gratification, and just feels bad to cater to people that just want it "now"

you make decisions in the game, you should have to live with those decisions to an extent. You buy the wrong item on market, well your stuck with some loss, you train the wrong skills, you should be stuck with some loss as well. Whether it be the time wasted, or percentage loss from reallocating them at least.

I 'll just say any way for this to be worth doing would require a reasonable amount of SP to be remapped and as soon as that is the case the system can then be abused.

Make it simply a nice to have once a year minimal sp remap and it isn't worth the effort to code and test it. Even this would be horrible as it would be accomodating those with OCD tendancies (which is actually very bad for them!) And would simply lead to alts becoming perfect niche pilots with rich players having a perfect clean frig alt, dessie alt, cruiser alt etc etc etc. A horrible idea, its the diffrences that make them characters rather than just a destroyer pilot account etc.

If someone wants to pilot ship class x, y or z more rapidly they should use the character bazaar (which personally I think is a necessary evil) and put up with the consequence of unwanted skills and dubious background.

The differences are:
1) Each is a separate character they had to go out and obtain. They didn't just keep switching the same toon around to meet their changing needs.
2) Somebody had to take the time to train it "perfectly" or they had to make due with what they were able to find for sale.



Why do you want to be perfect so bad, right now, without putting forth the time and effort to correct those mistakes like everyone else has done for over a decade now? But instead try to erase those past mistakes to quickly make up for shortfalls today.

1 Character is not identical to 2 characters, no matter how much you want it to be.

As far as I can see, you are advocating not only trading your lovely characters uniqness(sic) and experience by arguing for remaps, but throwing them out altogether.

You would go from being "Tiddle Jr, former Miner turned Golem Pilot" to "Identical Perfect Golem Pilot #15423, until next week when I get bored"

If this is to happen, please let it be for straight isk rather than plex.

There are already FAR too many things assigned to plexes pushing the price of them north.

A Plex should be just that - a game time extension sellable on the open market. Not a third form of currency.

Multi character training, ship skins, aurum, character transfer, tickets for events ect. should be paid for by RL cash or isk. Not plexes.

Like many others I don't like this idea. It makes no logical sense, or have you e.g. been able in school to forget anything what you have learned about a foreign language and instantly got access to knowledge in maths in exchange?

I doubt you have because it would have made school much easier. Just spend enough time learning "something" to gather a pool of skill points and switch your knowledge from one area to another in case it's required for a test. At least my parents told me: you never know why you have learned something until you need it, and while the others are able to take away all your goods knowledge is something they can't take away.

This situation applies to EVE. Whatever you have learned is learned and can't and shouldn't be forgotten. If you enable a system where you can move around skill points from one area to another you render learning useless. All you need to enable your "godmode" is a pool of skill points which can be reassigned whenever you want. After that point learning would become useless.

There is a game out there were you can do this. A system was created where you could switch your knowledge and even keep 2 different types of skill selection in mind - and switch between them. It's WOW. This plus all the changes which wiped out the special characterization details made this game more user of child friendly but in the end there was no real role play left. Tanks suddenly were able to act as damage dealers and even in the role of the tank they were able to make damage. Why? Because people didn't like specialization. They wanted a god mode where everyone would be perfect in every role.

Don't do this to EVE. Whatever you do, it must have consequences - and choosing what you learn next also falls into this category. This is a game for the grown ups and not the children who want to play without thinking about tomorrow.

No to all but....

A certain amount of Plex to rename a character you bought on the bazaar
because like in RL you can change your name ( but your old name would be stored somewhere (agent locator?web site? employement history with a specific line for Name Change?

Sorry but the moderation on these forums are getting silly, no wonder discussions are moving to other places.

Skill remaps suggestion have nothing to do with skill punt buying for example. Why not just create one thread "future suggestions" since everything thing can be considered duplication if remap = skill point buying.

Silly

Skill remapping in a persistent world sandbox could have compounding effects, unless it was limited to the degree where it would be pointless. A huge part of EvE is actions and consequences, unlike all the fluffy theme park MMOs where you need to respec to enjoy all the different meaningless activities.

The skill system we have requires patience and can be frustrating but it's also quite rewarding and probably my favorite out of 25yrs of playing rpgs.

Also no to purchasing skill points, pretty much for the same reasons.

I do think newbies should have accelerated training for a certain period of time (maybe a month or few, or up to a certain amount of skillpoints)

PLEX was hovering near a billion ISK long before SKINs were introduced...

I dont see a problem with turning plex into a remap of attributes, skill training is skill training and I dont see how it would affect any sort of game balance.

It would produce a wave of well trained and focused alts. Which we ca't have due to remap limits