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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3885
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Posted - 2015.02.22 11:57:52 -
[1] - Quote
As some of the more veteran members of the forums may be aware, the topic of SP remapping and/or buying is a very common one, and has been for years and years. It shows up in all sorts of subforums, and has been discussed very thoroughly because of the number of times it's been brought up over a long period of time. Because of this, new threads on it immediately run into rule #17 of the forums:
Quote:Forum rules17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
For almost all other topics, invoking rule #17 means actually redirecting the discussion to an already existing thread about it. Due to its oft-reposted nature, though, this has not been possible for threads about SP remapping and/or buying. That's not fair to people who actually wish to discuss it, and we do not wish to stifle good discussions. Because of this, we are creating this centralized Official Skill Points remapping/buyingGäó thread to serve as the gathering place for discussion about it. Any future threads on this same topic will be locked and redirected here for discussion.
To emphasize: this thread is on the topic of balance, changes, or feedback on the mechanic of remapping and/or acquiring Skillpoints in different ways than the current game mechanics allow. Posts outside this topic will be moderated/deleted.
Please keep the discussion and feedback civil and constructive!
A list of relatively recent (now locked) threads on the topic will be added here asap for reference.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Oscae
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
26
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:12:31 -
[2] - Quote
Hey look Ma I made it to the top of a thread!
In other news, I personally think that this would be a godsend, as I have a habit of not making alts, so my one character now has really poor industry skills and just random other junk that I wish I hadn't trained cause now I'm never going to use them.
I think it should be quite costly however, but also proportionate to the ammount of SP wishing to be reallocated, a 6month toon shouldn't have to pay half a billion to remap 2mil SP and a 10 year vet shouldn't be able to remap 100mil SP for the same price.
There is a closed thread just below called PLEX for SP boosting, though instead of boosting how about remapping? I think this could work, you could redeem plex into SP tokens of differing values etc. 1, 5, 10mil SP remaps, have them market tradeable and such, just a thought
Lastly I appreciate the creation of these centralised threads, hopefully we'll see something good come from them
Oscae |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
394
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:21:39 -
[3] - Quote
This will be a useful consolidation of the discussion. Now let's all be happy constructive posters!
ISD Decoy
Commander
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Aran Hotchkiss
Phoibe Enterprises
63
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:33:47 -
[4] - Quote
I'm going to keep this brief, because I really don't want to let myself get snared into this topic.
Firstly, is the ^ idea of PLEX/isk (reasonable to treat the two as interchangeable) for SP re-allocation favours wealthier players - they are much more readily able to keep their SP pool as a constantly shifting, constantly min-maxxed to follow whatever the flavour of the month is. Pay to Win has been thrashed to death so hard, that the coprse of the horse is gone and there is now a huge open-cut strip mine in place from all the whip strokes deeper than that hole in Russia that goes several kilometres down.
Secondly EvE loves attaching consequences to action/failure to action, and personally I quite like it - adds a bit of delayed gratification to things rather than going "Hmmm, I want to fly vagabonds but I can't, I know I'll remapp those skillpoints I spent almost getting into exhumers and be away with it" and I fully expect if that were possible I'd get bored of vagabonds very quickly and end up just doing what everyone else would do and follow the flavour of the month. I spent what to me was a long time getting into guardians with logistics five, I'm yet to actually fly one in any sort of fleet because reasons but meh that's life. Having to stick to your choices adds Stoicism to a game that really can be quite callous. So I ultimately feel this negatively affects the players of the game in terms of patience and satisfaction by replacing delayed gratification with instant gratification.
Thirdly... Character Bazaar's exist as a, if not ideal, then possible and established alternative, that currently function under the status quo.
So, in order, paying for remapping is Pay to win, trashes the game, and alternatives exist.
Shamelessly stole this line,
Alternatively, QFT
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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Mag's
the united
19075
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:46:11 -
[5] - Quote
Wow you guys really are suckers for punishment.
It is of course, a big NO from me. So far, no one has shown any good reasons why this is needed and what it fixes.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11882
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:53:15 -
[6] - Quote
Might as well throw out a "Space Barbies" thread so we can knock out the last super-redundant topic here in F&I as well.
As to the topic I have very rarely heard worse ideas in my whole life, and I'm in the freaking Army for goodness sakes.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
102
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Posted - 2015.02.22 12:55:48 -
[7] - Quote
With this and the AFK Cloaking thread, the forums should almost be cleansed up, until a new T3 Battleship sticky thread shows up
Also, a No from me as well. EVE has always been unforgiving, why should that change? You were a rookie and were not sure how to train, and it became a failure/mess? We've all been there, and EVE has been unforgiving for all of us. No reason to change that, and with the increasing amount of non-ISD helpers in the rookie help channel as well, there's a lot of guidance available. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2721
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Posted - 2015.02.22 14:39:17 -
[8] - Quote
No from me still, pay to win is bad. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
227
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Posted - 2015.02.22 15:11:25 -
[9] - Quote
Reported for redundant
Also Pay to win
Also dumbass idea |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1729
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Posted - 2015.02.22 15:21:57 -
[10] - Quote
Just because other games have it, doesn't means EVE has to have such thing.
Never liked this idea in any form realy.
Akrasjel Lanate
General Director(CEO) of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3887
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Posted - 2015.02.22 15:42:52 -
[11] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:Reported for redundant Which it is not. As to why this thread was opened, I gladly re-post something I previously stated in the thread on (AFK)Cloaking (albeit rephrased a little):
The reason this thread was started does have something to do with our work, as reports to us on *new* Skill Point remap/buying threads have been a regular occurrence. We also get complaint reports sent to us and CCP on a regular basis by the people whose threads on the subject we have closed, asking the question on were to discuss it then. Whether we find the subject worth a discussion or even holding merit is irrelevant, others do think so and continue to bring up the subject, so to a certain extend they do have a point.
So in short we judged it best to have one focal point, one open thread on the subject. And that, indeed, saves us work in the long run. It also saves frustration by the people that do want to discuss this topic, which in the end is even more important.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
672
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Posted - 2015.02.22 16:06:37 -
[12] - Quote
Oh damn... Please no PLEX/ISK for skillpoints. 1 extra remap per year for a PLEX would be ok, buying skillpoints would ruin EVE on the long run.
You really don't want to do this.
Pay to win comes to mind.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
228
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Posted - 2015.02.22 16:12:47 -
[13] - Quote
And mister ISD man, i recognize what you are attempting to do and I applaud it for a noble intention. Removing all the useless topics that we report as useless on a daily basis is laudable. Maybe even more then merely laudable...
But making a big place where people can dump trash instead of sorting it in a bunch of smaller places doesn't stop it from A) being a trash heap and B) from dumb people opening up more useless topics like we saw with the whole cloaking thing.
People were still opening up cloaking topics like noone's business... Hence i stand by my reporting of the thread for redundant while lauding the existence of the thread in theory.
Keep up the good work... |
Solairen
Matsuko Holding
17
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Posted - 2015.02.22 16:54:10 -
[14] - Quote
Man I like all these ISD consolidation threads. Makes it easier to find old threads on ideas, and keeps clutter down.
Keep up the good work guys - looking forward to seeing more of them in the future. |
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
173
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Posted - 2015.02.22 17:03:16 -
[15] - Quote
Posting the Tippia's copypasta for why buying or remapping skillpoints is bad
It removes the point of having skills to begin with. It removes the point of having attributes. It removes attribute implants from the game. It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups. It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character. It removes planning and choice and consequences. It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas. It kills character trading. It massively boosts older characters over new ones. It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.
This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3094
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Posted - 2015.02.22 19:51:29 -
[16] - Quote
Good to have this topic consolidated in one place so the Devs know where to go if they ever need reminding what a terrible idea this is.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
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Debora Tsung
Die Woge des Wahnsinns Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1474
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Posted - 2015.02.22 19:57:26 -
[17] - Quote
I'm a genius, I liked and thenn unliked this thread just so I can say I'll never support this idea. ever.
EDIT: It feels like my own little dislike button.
EDIT2: ISD ERZWAL I see what you did there.
Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Fighting back is more fun than not.
Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
572
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Posted - 2015.02.22 19:59:17 -
[18] - Quote
Oscae wrote:In other news, I personally think that this would be a godsend, as I have a habit of not making alts...
but others do..
Nope!
signature
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Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
16
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Posted - 2015.02.22 20:15:49 -
[19] - Quote
IF SP could be bought(aka pay to win), I would quit. No questions asked.
Big f'n no from me. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
232
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Posted - 2015.02.22 20:43:24 -
[20] - Quote
At some point fozzie or rize (i think) said he'd like to add a "declare war" or "put bounty" button on posts instead of a "-1" button...
Wonder if that'd allow you to declare war/place bounty on the ISD:) (assuming that ever became a thing o:-D )
That said i do like how Mr ISD man liked the post in which i explain why i feel this thread is stupid and wrong!
Thanks Mister ISD man! |
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Corinne Avuli
Victory over the Sun Destiny's Call
0
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Posted - 2015.02.22 21:23:32 -
[21] - Quote
I would like a remap. But i would like it just once. Like CCP allows a remap of 2 mio SP for every 2 years a character plays. Like the Change of the attributes.
ATM your Char reaches 2 Years it allows you to remap 2 mio sp, you do not need to do it. |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2015.02.22 23:12:19 -
[22] - Quote
No to buying anything (SP, remap, reset etc). Instead of that we have to get rid out learning implants, set all attributes to 28 -30 and pay isk the ppl who have implants for sale :P |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
834
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Posted - 2015.02.22 23:21:29 -
[23] - Quote
Not in favor of paying for SP, not in favor of paying for remaps, not in favor of attribute implants, not in favor of remaps, not in favor of attributes at all.
SP should accumulate at the same rate for all subscribers. Eve players should be encouraged to get out in space and interact with each other, with a focus on improving knowledge of game mechanics and player skill vice character skill. Character skill should be a steady and dependable thing, with no advantages to wealthier players (whether in game or out of game).
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2015.02.22 23:30:51 -
[24] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Wow you guys really are suckers for punishment. It is of course, a big NO from me. So far, no one has shown any good reasons why this is needed and what it fixes.
/10char
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Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
559
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Posted - 2015.02.23 06:56:23 -
[25] - Quote
No to gameplay-related microtransactions. Nuff said.
Overhaul Dscan!
Make your own rules - Noobs to Null / Casual Vets Corp
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4070
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Posted - 2015.02.23 08:31:41 -
[26] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:No to gameplay-related microtransactions. Nuff said. That's funny. PLEX is a micro transaction... AURUM is a micro transaction.
FT Diomedes wrote:Character skill should be a steady and dependable thing, with no advantages to wealthier players (whether in game or out of game). Great - then we can get rid of PLEX as well since it gives advantages to older (wealthier) players.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
4070
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Posted - 2015.02.23 08:46:52 -
[27] - Quote
What's interesting is that at one point both Clone Upgrade costs and the 30-day Skill Queue were both considered sacred, and untouchable. The reality has less to do with pay-to-win and micro transactions and more to do with the fact that established players who have invested years into EVE in training up their characters don't want to give up any advantage. It also competes with the character bazaar, so that's touched on a few nerves as well. Allowing SP for PLEX would probably impact PLEX prices, and this is probably the hidden reason most object: It would simply require more effort to play for free.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anthar Thebess
883
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Posted - 2015.02.23 08:58:43 -
[28] - Quote
No for pay to win! People can already buy in game items and SP for real money. ($->PLEX->ISK ->stuff , characters) We don't need to go more into this. The only thing that can be accepted is renaming characters , but only if you are bought off market.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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PREDATORoPL GALP
1
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Posted - 2015.02.23 09:11:09 -
[29] - Quote
This changes destroy basic rule in this game.
NO for PAY to play ( or win )
older chars have more can more do in game or use ships.
after changes everyone with big real wallet get acces to everything.
at now many chars ( not old chars ) are specialized - pvp, pve, production, incursion, exploration, wh life, capital ship use.
CCP want waste and destroy all this what players create from years ? |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
712
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Posted - 2015.02.23 10:02:15 -
[30] - Quote
I see no reason for a change to the skill system, it is reasonably fair and equitable and as far as I know cannot be gamed which makes it a rare thing in EvE.
As to the purchase of SP this is something I will always oppose and the removal of attributes and there replacement with a flat rate of SP gain would remove the need for Neural remaps.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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