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Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
The Obsidian Front
145
   |
Posted - 2015.02.22 15:41:53 -
[1] - Quote
This character has been around a little while. But my question is kind of newbish and the answer would probably benefit newbies, so...
I'm already aware of EveSurvival - which details what NPCs spawn in PvE content in this game and suggests ships to fly against them.
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage
However, I don't see potential payouts anywhere on the site. So, I'm looking for a website that estimates approximate payouts from both looting and salvaging NPC wrecks in the various sites. I know the market changes, so getting an exact estimate is impossible. But I'd at least like a website to take a stab at it.
Anyone know a website like that.
If it also included automatic bounty payments from killing rats, that would be good too. Thanks. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
Low-Class
1025
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 15:47:09 -
[2] - Quote
it's too random.
variance can be over 50% both ways, the only stable income is LP and bounties. |
M'pact
Apotheosis of Caledvwich
Dirt Nap Squad.
51
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Posted - 2015.02.22 16:45:39 -
[3] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:it's too random.
variance can be over 50% both ways, the only stable income is LP and bounties.
This.
Any web site claiming to do what OP wants would be wrong so often as to make weather-people seem like they get every forecast right.
When I finally do make an impact on this universe, it will reverberate across the entirety of it, and no one will be able to truthfully claim they don't know me.
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Until then, I'll just sit quietly over here, minding my own business...
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
F0RCED ENTRY.
169
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Posted - 2015.02.22 17:20:34 -
[4] - Quote
Riel Saigo wrote:This character has been around a little while. But my question is kind of newbish and the answer would probably benefit newbies, so... I'm already aware of EveSurvival - which details what NPCs spawn in PvE content in this game and suggests ships to fly against them. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage
However, I don't see potential payouts anywhere on the site. So, I'm looking for a website that estimates approximate payouts from both looting and salvaging NPC wrecks in the various sites. I know the market changes, so getting an exact estimate is impossible. But I'd at least like a website to take a stab at it. Anyone know a website like that. If it also included automatic bounty payments from killing rats, that would be good too. Thanks.
Loot is too random. They can drop items that are worth anywhere between 100 isk and 10 million isk, and there are literally hundreds of things they can drop.
Generally, I only loot large ship wrecks and Burner mission ships. Those are really the only things worth looting in missions. The large weapons, large smartbombs and 1600mm armor plates are generally the most worth items, aside from the odd damage control unit thats worth like 9-10 million isk. |
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
The Obsidian Front
145
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 17:47:53 -
[5] - Quote
OK, granted.
However, would it be too hard for a guide/website to list the following:
1. Rat bounties
2. the range of possible loot
3. the possible big loot drops (like rare BPOs) and who tends to drop them
4. the range of salvage value and whether it's even worth it
I'm not asking for accurate predictions. But I would like a ballpark to at least know if it's worth adding salvage to a PvE op, and get some ideas of how the ISK-per-hour is likely to stack up against other ISK-making alternatives like mining, or Incursions, or what have you. |
Orlacc
810
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Posted - 2015.02.22 17:59:59 -
[6] - Quote
Here are some notes on bounties: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ratting_101
Otherwise, random is random. You will unfortunately have to make up your own mind.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
943
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 18:05:44 -
[7] - Quote
Riel Saigo wrote:OK, granted.
However, would it be too hard for a guide/website to list the following:
1. Rat bounties
2. the range of possible loot
3. the possible big loot drops (like rare BPOs) and who tends to drop them
4. the range of salvage value and whether it's even worth it
I'm not asking for accurate predictions. But I would like a ballpark to at least know if it's worth adding salvage to a PvE op, and get some ideas of how the ISK-per-hour is likely to stack up against other ISK-making alternatives like mining, or Incursions, or what have you.
1. Easy. Just add them up.
2. Would take a lot of runs before you had a good idea of the faction loot. You'll never be able to count the different "junk" loot drops accurately.
3. It's pretty obvious in most cases which rats drop the good stuff, as they are the faction spawns. As for different possible drops, see #2.
4. Salvaging is almost never worth it. Best you could do to estimate it is some kind of average.
My thoughts
If you are talking about combat exploration sites, ignore everything and go for the "big drops" from faction spawns. The other stuff (bounties, loot, salvage) are pitiful in comparison. I'm not as familiar with missions but I think people rarely find salvaging to be worth it there either (LP is the bigger factor there).
Sites like EVE survival are compiled by players. If you think this is a valuable service, get out there and start cataloging loot averages. I would suggest ignoring everything except the faction drops. Once you've run a given site 15-20 times you'll have a good idea of what it has the potential to drop and maybe even the average drop rate. Then you can pull the price from something like EVE central to get an estimate.
Maybe if you have some friends that you trust you can task them to help you. This is a sandbox. CCP just gives us the world. We have to do the rest.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Memphis Baas
176
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Posted - 2015.02.22 18:16:51 -
[8] - Quote
Other MMO's have wowhead / torhead / other similar sites that display loot drop rates, because getting rare drops from killing NPCs and from raiding is what they're about.
This game is about PVP; the PVE is a bit of an afterthought. A lot of the useful sites you see for EVE use the static database that CCP has published (for example, the names of all the star systems, or the resistances of particular NPCs), or use the API system to get data uploads from a lot of players (for market price updates).
It's not as much effort as trying to guess the loot drop tables, so I'm not sure if anyone will take you up on your request.
As far as the loot, switch your containers to List view, and the last tab in List view will display the volume (how much space that thing will take in your hold). Bottom right corner also displays an estimated price for anything you highlight. So just loot the high price/m3 items, and ignore the bulky cheap stuff like cap charges, shield transfer arrays, etc. Or, easier, loot everything and just eject the bulky stuff. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
4714
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Posted - 2015.02.23 01:45:03 -
[9] - Quote
Someone *could* calculate a mean and standard deviation for the value of goods you'd loot from one of the more rat-heavy missions (say a full clear of Serpentis Blockade), but the usefulness is fairly low as, assuming you are set on missioning, the established optimal practice is to set down an MTU if (and only if) doing so does not compromise your safety, complete the objectives, loot all items over a specific value threshold from the MTU and scoop it, loot any specific mission objectives or drops of note (e.g. the 8 million implant from Anire Scarlet if you succeed at the blitz) then proceed to the next pocket or the next mission.
If spent wisely LP are where the ISK comes from.
Finally the mean/standard deviation figures would be somewhat weird as variance is so high and the skew and curtosis significant too. As an example, treating heads as 1 and tails as 2, if you pick up 10 coins and multiply the result, your EV is around 58. However, the standard deviation, skew and curtosis would be so high that values extremely far from the mean would be the rule rather than the exception.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
F0RCED ENTRY.
176
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 03:38:45 -
[10] - Quote
Riel Saigo wrote:OK, granted.
However, would it be too hard for a guide/website to list the following:
1. Rat bounties
2. the range of possible loot
3. the possible big loot drops (like rare BPOs) and who tends to drop them
4. the range of salvage value and whether it's even worth it
I'm not asking for accurate predictions. But I would like a ballpark to at least know if it's worth adding salvage to a PvE op, and get some ideas of how the ISK-per-hour is likely to stack up against other ISK-making alternatives like mining, or Incursions, or what have you.
1. Someone already has done this. It is up on sites like this one:
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=angelextragavanza4
2. Too many. Literally. There is a ton of cr@p loot that they drop, that it would nearly be impossible and not worth mapping it out. Basically, the range of possible loot is almost any meta2-4 modules.
3. This is something that is already semi-listed. You will only encounter these in specific instances, like Belt Rats in nullsec, or complexes, and people have already made websites talking about these things.
4. Salvage will almost always give you the simple t1 stuff. The best you could probably hope for is the Armor plates, but salvage for the most part is as random as loot drops, so theyre not worth that much and are random.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
168
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Posted - 2015.02.23 04:17:16 -
[11] - Quote
Possible but very time consuming to create because there are so many variables.
Your standing towards the agent.
Your standing to the NPC.
The quality of the agent.
The sec status of the system your agent is in.
Do you use an MTU?
If yes do you let it complete each pocket, or simply scoop it once you have killed all the NPC and then move on?
Do you salvage everything in your missions pockets, or only a few select ships?
Do you even salvage any of the wrecks?
If you salvage what level does the salvage character have skills trained too?
Do you use tech 2 rigs / fittings on your salvage ship, tech 1's or a combination?
Do you sell all of the salvage or keep some of it for your on needs / wants?
Do you sell the loot as is, or reprocess it?
If you reprocess it how high are your reprocessing skills?
If you reprocess then your standings come back into play.
How do you account for daily or regional market fluctuations?
Loot / salvage will vary every time you run the same mission for the same agent.
After about 5 minutes thought this is a list of what I think are the major factors your web site would need to account for but it is by no means a complete list.
So is your idea possible? Yes it is, but to be honest it would be extremely difficult and for your site to have any real meaning for players you would need to gather data from a very large group of players. |
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
The Obsidian Front
145
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 04:23:33 -
[12] - Quote
Hmm, alright.
My background has been in wormholes so far. Sounds like what I really need is just to find some guides on other types of PvE and get a grasp on those. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
381
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 07:55:34 -
[13] - Quote
In years past the best isk / hour from missions was from speed running them that is to say kill as little as possible do the mission as fast as possible and just complete as many missions as you can per hour to get max mission rewards and LP.
Historically it has never been worth while to loot / salvage missions unless you had really bad dps skills. No I have not done much missioning lately but they did the reprocessing nerf about a year ago and have done a few loot drop nerfs in years previous to that which tells me now more than ever it's probably not worth it to loot and salvage missions.
The introduction of MTUs to the game has changed the balance of time required to do "clean up" in missions but with how easy they are to scan down and how anyone can shoot them without concord interference using MTUs is just asking for uninvited guests into your mission space and you'll likely loose a lot of them to people shooting at them.
All the above having been said, I am a loot wh0re and loot and salvage all of my missions. I know I am wasting time doing so. I know that I would make more isk if I speed ran them and just left my wrecks but that's not how I like to play. You almost never get anything "special" from mission wrecks and with the extremely rare exception to this rule it's off of a special NPC with a unique name like "Zor" and even his stuff isn't worth much.
If you do loot and salvage missions you are doing it because you like doing it and what you are getting out of it is essentially reprocessing value of the modules and what ever the salvage is worth which is minimal.
If you can figure out how to run the burner missions without loosing ships I believe now-a-days level 4 mission grinding is all about the burner missions. You run non-burner missions just to get the burner missions. They pay much more isk than normal level 4's and the LP can be 9K - 14K from what I have seen from a mission that if done properly can be completed in low single digit minutes. |
Kousaka Otsu Shigure
37
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Posted - 2015.02.24 07:43:56 -
[14] - Quote
Looting Report - Pro Synergy
https://sites.google.com/site/prospersynergy/contact-us/looting-report
Bit dated.. yes, but i figger if Pro Synergy did it, the data would be somewhat okay.
Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave
Current Project Status: Collating Forum Posts - Fourth Pass
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
169
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 04:52:30 -
[15] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:In years past the best isk / hour from missions was from speed running them that is to say kill as little as possible do the mission as fast as possible and just complete as many missions as you can per hour to get max mission rewards and LP.
I hear this all the time and it is not always the truth.
If you are a solo mission runner then this would be the preferred method to maximize your ISK per hour and it is always the best way to maximize your LP and standings per hour.
This all falls flat if you have an alt to salvage and are willing to work a bit.
Use one character to kill the missions and bookmark a wreck in each pocket.
Turn in the mission and pass the bookmarks to the salvage character.
One character goes and salvages the previous mission pockets now empty space while the other proceeds to another mission.
With good reprocessing skills and being careful about where you sell salvage and minerals this can easily double the ISK from an average level 4 mission versus running them as described in the quoted segment above. |
Justin Zaine
199
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Posted - 2015.02.25 12:47:50 -
[16] - Quote
Yup, too random.
I've been running level 4 Amarr missions on and off for years now, and yesterday for the first time I got an officer drop of a faction heat sink, smart bomb and armor hardener worth about 350 mil.
My eyes practically welled up with tears when I saw the loot value estimation in the tractor unit's cargo hold.
Wheeeeeee
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Narii
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:06:07 -
[17] - Quote
Riel Saigo wrote:OK, granted.
However, would it be too hard for a guide/website to list the following:
1. Rat bounties
2. the range of possible loot
3. the possible big loot drops (like rare BPOs) and who tends to drop them
4. the range of salvage value and whether it's even worth it
I'm not asking for accurate predictions. But I would like a ballpark to at least know if it's worth adding salvage to a PvE op, and get some ideas of how the ISK-per-hour is likely to stack up against other ISK-making alternatives like mining, or Incursions, or what have you.
1. Not possible on quite a few things, since they have some rng to the spawns. Such as picking from 1 of 3 cruisers, whos bounties aren't the same.
2. Possible. Annoying to figure out though, you'd need to tractor in each wreck (and not using an mtu), copy all the results and then sort those results. Repeat 100 times for each rat and you should have it decently covered (except for some of the rar).
3. Already detailed. Specific rats, normally named or faction. Eve survival normally has his, although there's no rare BPOs.
4. I'm not sure exactly how rig production works, but if I'm right then all advanced ships have a chance to drop t2 salvage (not sure what salvage that is,me dactyl) as well as t1 salvage. T1/fact only give t1 salvage.
And you'd only really be able to do this lasting or anoms, since mission givings are random. You could figure. out each mission though.. Lotta work. |
Narii
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 17:15:09 -
[18] - Quote
Justin Zaine wrote:Yup, too random.
I've been running level 4 Amarr missions on and off for years now, and yesterday for the first time I got an officer drop of a faction heat sink, smart bomb and armor hardener worth about 350 mil.
My eyes practically welled up with tears when I saw the loot value estimation in the tractor unit's cargo hold. Officer spawn? You mean faction, or a rare named rat in a mission? Because afaik, hey never spawn in anything except belts. Or anywhere except highsec.
Donnachadh wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:In years past the best isk / hour from missions was from speed running them that is to say kill as little as possible do the mission as fast as possible and just complete as many missions as you can per hour to get max mission rewards and LP. I hear this all the time and it is not always the truth. If you are a solo mission runner then this would be the preferred method to maximize your ISK per hour and it is always the best way to maximize your LP and standings per hour. This all falls flat if you have an alt to salvage and are willing to work a bit. Use one character to kill the missions and bookmark a wreck in each pocket. Turn in the mission and pass the bookmarks to the salvage character. One character goes and salvages the previous mission pockets now empty space while the other proceeds to another mission. With good reprocessing skills and being careful about where you sell salvage and minerals this can easily double the ISK from an average level 4 mission versus running them as described in the quoted segment above. wouldnt it be better to multi box missions anyway, since loot profit got merged back in Crius?. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
169
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 02:44:21 -
[19] - Quote
Narii wrote:wouldnt it be better to multi box missions anyway, since loot profit got merged back in Crius?.
Like many things in EvE missions are best run by using alts or multiple accounts, but not all people have multiple accounts and some of them that do cannot use one or more of them because of standings issues from PvP activities.
The reprocessing changes did change the whole loot side of missions pretty significantly. Used to be you could simply sort out and sell the meta 4 stuff and reprocess everything else, sell the meta 4 and minerals and make as much of more than selling the items themselves. Now you have to be much more aware of your local markets and the prices for all the items as it is often more profitable to sell the items. I am unsure how the whole tiercide thing will affect it since that is still a work in progress but I fear that it will eventually reduce even further the income possibility from missions. Whether this is good or bad depends on your point of view and what the costs in the market do over the same period of time. |
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