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PVP troubles (my Ferox keeps getting pwned)

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Praxor	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:03:00 - [1] I'm at around 1.8mil sp ... getting those various "support skills" up to lvl 4 at the moment before training up for a Raven/Scorp. Here's my pvp setup: 5 Heavy Missile Launchers 2 250mm railguns 1 10mn MWD 1 Large Shield Booster 1 Medium Capacitor Booster (w/ cap 400s in it) 1 Warp Disruptor I 1 Large Shield Extender 3 Reactor Control Units 1 Nanomechanical CPU enhancer 5 x hornet drones The idea is for me to try and do as much DPS as possible from around 35km then zoom in to 20km and pin my opponent with the scrambler. Ideally, the MWD keeps me at a decent range (can get to around 700km/s with it). When the ****zle hits the fan, I can turn on my cap booster to pump in 400 energy caps. Unfortunately, this setup isn't working so well. I'm not exactly sure of what is going wrong, but my last two fights went like this. Fight #1 (vs. an Amarr Vengeance T2 frig) ----------------------------------------- Took out his shield at range pretty quick. Then noticed some trouble getting his armor down. Was using Widowmaker Heavy missiles. So I figured it might be better to carry Thunderbolt (shield) and Havoc (armor) missiles in combo (see next fight). Anyhow, the guy managed to get close to me, web me, then warp scram me. I was a sitting duck. Couldn't get out from his clutch. Nor could I do any serious dmg to his armor w/ my Widowmaker's. Ok ... Questions: how do I defend against a webber? I thought they had a short range like 10km. Perhaps he had a mwd too and got w/i range? Is there a better method for me keeping targets at optimal range (eg., around 20km for my scrambler). Fight #2 vs. Amarr Maller -------------------------- Initially went just like the fight above. This time, however, I was armed with Havoc and Thunderbolt missiles. Once I got his shield down I went to all Havoc's, thinking I'd crank up the armor damage. Still, unfortunately, unable to do much serious dmg to his armor. He got up close, web and scramed me. Again, nothing I could do. He slowly just wore me down. Seemed like this guy also had a NOS. I couldn't pump out energy fast enough w/ my cap booster. So I couldn't regen shield, etc... I'm guessing he was sucking my energy and using it to keep his armor alive. But geez, I was pounding his armor pretty good. Similar questions ... how to defend ... this time against a NOS too? Thanks all. Getting killed kind of sucks but I view it as the price of admission. I'm still pretty new and have to learn the ropes. Advice appreciated, Thanks, Prax
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:23:00 - [2] Your setup is just broken in almost every possible way. This setup would have crushed either of the setups you fought, had you been packing a mix of racial ECMs. 5x Heavy Missile Launchers 2x Medium Nos 1x Warp Disruptor 1x Stasis Webifier 4x EW Modules 1x Medium Armor Repairer 1x 800mm Armor Plate 2x Ballistic Controls
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:35:00 - [3] I always prefer a tank to ecm but your lack of nos kinda killed you in both situations. If you would of had 2 medium nos in the first fight you would of won for sure and most likely won the second one as well --------
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:39:00 - [4] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 09/10/2006 00:43:00 Originally by: Rasitiln I always prefer a tank to ecm but your lack of nos kinda killed you in both situations. If you would of had 2 medium nos in the first fight you would of won for sure and most likely won the second one as well The ferox doesnt do enough damage to tank and be valuable, IMO. Also, to the OP: Train guided missile precision ASAP.
Yumiko Mitsu Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:44:00 - [5] I want me the vengeance you were fighting! 3 mids! Seriously, the vengeance only has 1 mid, so he could've either webbed you, scrammed you OR had a propulsion mod. However, they do tank well and do lots of damage. Second point. Why oh why are you putting a MWD on a ferox? I'm not an expert at caldari setups, but the main reason you should be fitting a mwd is to get in/out of combat quickly (i.e thorax, frigates, etc), it just uses up to much cap and reduces your cap by too much to be of any use over an extended period of time (except if you're going out of your way to sustain it).
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Yumiko Mitsu I want me the vengeance you were fighting! 3 mids! Seriously, the vengeance only has 1 mid, so he could've either webbed you, scrammed you OR had a propulsion mod. However, they do tank well and do lots of damage. .... The vengence has 3 midslots.
Yumiko Mitsu Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.09 00:50:00 - [7] Damn, you're right, I could've sworn he was talking about the retri... I even Read it as "Amarr Retribution T2 Frigate" and everything... O.o
SurfinSeaOtter Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.09 01:18:00 - [8] Edited by: SurfinSeaOtter on 09/10/2006 01:18:32 Train up weapons upgrades to lvl 5, and get your engineering skills up... those reactor control units and CPU enhancers are wasting lowslots that could be used to up your armor and the retribution is a great ship provided you're not alone :) Awesome resistances plus it hits hard
Praxor	Posted - 2006.10.09 01:42:00 - [9] Hmm ... ok. I have mixed feelings about fitting two NOS's to my ship. Mainly because they have like a 10km range, which mixes up my setup: Heavy Missiles -> 37km range Warp Disruptor I -> 20km range NOS -> 10km range Now, I've read that you should keep all ranges equal. So I could use the shorter range Warp scrambler (forget the name the one w/ 2 points of warp jamming). But then I'd HAVE to get in close every time. I was trying to design a setup that would work from around 20km out ... so those pesky smaller ships would still take a pounding from my missiles. Thx, Prax
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Praxor Hmm ... ok. I have mixed feelings about fitting two NOS's to my ship. Mainly because they have like a 10km range, which mixes up my setup: Heavy Missiles -> 37km range Warp Disruptor I -> 20km range NOS -> 10km range Now, I've read that you should keep all ranges equal. So I could use the shorter range Warp scrambler (forget the name the one w/ 2 points of warp jamming). But then I'd HAVE to get in close every time. I was trying to design a setup that would work from around 20km out ... so those pesky smaller ships would still take a pounding from my missiles. Thx, Prax Missiles are not affected by range - ships in close will take more damage since you can nos and web them. However, a ferox is too slow to dictate range against anything. Fit to kill the largest number of probable threats - that means ECM and nos/heavies. Dont forget 5 warriors in your drone bay. If something gets inside 10k, nos/web/jam/hammer it. If it stays outside 10k, then use missiles if theyre damaging to the target, or jam it if theyre not and warp. Stick with the 20k scrambler, 7.5ks only work if you have the speed to get and stay in range.

PCaBoo Caldari Newbies On Xstacy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:19:00 - [11] make sure ur not using garbage fittings either. It may cost you less, but you lose performance or cpu/pg.
vile56 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:34:00 - [12] even with bc 5 trained thats only 25% res on em sheild, guess what ammar do? and , a amarrs highest resist is exp, which if i remeber correctly is havok. so probaly best just to use scourge.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 02:35:00 - [13] Originally by: vile56 and , a amarrs highest resist is exp, which if i remeber correctly is havok. so probaly best just to use scourge. Its a maller hes shooting at, not a sac.
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.09 03:02:00 - [14] I'd say save your money and PVP on a cruiser... BCs aren't as good in pvp as they are in PVE (especially the low skill ferox build)
PCaBoo Caldari Newbies On Xstacy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.09 03:13:00 - [15] ^^ what he said. Stop training caldari ships too. They're horrible for PVP until u get up to AF/HAC's.
KayaYautja Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.09 06:47:00 - [16] Switch to Gallente imediately. Between them and minmatar for best solo PvP race, in my humble oppinion -------------------------- I'm the omega baby!
vile56 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.09 10:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Complacency's Bane Originally by: vile56 and , a amarrs highest resist is exp, which if i remeber correctly is havok. so probaly best just to use scourge. Its a maller hes shooting at, not a sac. your point, everyone has 60% em on armor. look at a mallers sheild. omg highest resist.
radiogaga Caldari Thundercats	Posted - 2006.10.09 10:29:00 - [18] ferox is very good for solo pvp but it needs to be flow with high SP and mwd is useless on it your setup 5 Heavy Missile Launchers (good) 2 250mm railguns (pointless) use med nos or 200mm with anitmatter 1 10mn MWD (same pointless) sensorbooster would help ya 1 Large Shield Booster (ok if your sheild tanking but i would have ECM and armor tank) 1 Medium Capacitor Booster (w/ cap 400s in it) (no need for it put L sheild extender) 1 Warp Disruptor I 1 Large Shield Extender 3 Reactor Control Units (put PD) 1 Nanomechanical CPU enhancer(med arm rep T2 preferd) 5 x hornet drones mixed dmg of drones is good but i usealy put exp/em drones where the npc¦s do therm/kin (guristas exemple) i use setup like this when im killing ppl that are close to our borders and it works great its good enought to shoot down up to crusers while sentrys are shooting at you next to a gate but take a note i have 35m SP so you might need some more training
Rico Naginata	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:17:00 - [19] i have pretty low SP (about 2.1million) but this is the setup i find works well... Highs 5x heavy missile launchers with a mix of ammo (your choice) 2x Medium Energy Neutralizer. - These will run a cruiser completely dry in about 30-40 seconds if youre lucky, but dont give you any cap back. Thats why i fit my ferox with Passive Tank. If you dont know already, passive tank means (simplified) it doesnt require any cap to run the shields. Mediums 1x 10mn AB - No cap killing and is useful for low sec where 170m/s wont cut it. :P 1x 20km warp disruptor - So you dont have to get within 7500m of your target. Remember most people will run away the instant you show up on overview (unless they tihnk they can kill you) 3x Large Shield Extenders - you might not have good enough shield skills to run this effectively - but play around with it. Lows 2x Ballistic Control Unit - to boost missile damage. 1x Reactor Control Unit 1x Power Diagnostic Unit - You might have to switch this for another RCU. Thats my setup. Though to be honest, at your amount of SP (and really at mine too, lol) you should still be flying a cruiser. You wont lose as much when you die. :P Also, try and find a channel with some dedicated PvPersin it to help critique your setups and give you suggestions. If you want, Priv Convo me ingame and ill get you in one maybe. Fly Safe
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.09 11:48:00 - [20] Originally by: vile56 even with bc 5 trained thats only 25% res on em sheild, guess what ammar do? and , a amarrs highest resist is exp, which if i remeber correctly is havok. so probaly best just to use scourge. For the Maller i suspect EMP/explosive would have given the best damage - he probably had active hardeners but the 60% EMP is not improved. As for Amarr AF's, they're hole in the armor is Thermal damage, explosive is at around 80%. But Amarr use lasers. Lasers eat cap. With 4-5 cycles of them medium nos he wouldn't of had enough cap to do anything. Heavy/Medium Nos is the death of any frig if they get in range. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)

FullBoat	Posted - 2006.10.09 12:38:00 - [21] Ok, I have a few more SP then both of y'all, put together, about 6.6mil. I have a Ferox as well. Personaly I would not put on any armor. This will do 2 things, slow you down, and take up space. The Ferox is meant to be a shield tanker, so you should set it up that way. Here is how I have mine right now. I havn't gone into battle with it yet, but just against corp mates, it kicks. It will tank Torps/Cruise nicely. -------------------- 3xheavy launcher 3xmed E50 Prototype NOS 1xMed Energy Nutrilizer --------------- 1xMWD ---Might change out for an ECCM or another LSE 1x 10k web 1x 20k Scram 1x T2 Large Shield Extender 1x T2 Invulnerability field --------------- Yes, I know I need to work on the low slot's. 2 x RCU 2 x BCU --------------- 5x T2 Acrolyte As you can see, I only have 3 heavy missles on here. Out where I am, Laser's an Blasters are very common. Not to mention ECCM's. With this setup, I can bleed a BS of cap within about 2 min, and that is with them making me loose my lock. And, tossing Cruise/torp's at me. He also had a heavy NOS on me as well. It will Shield tank for a good while. I have almost killed a corp mates Scorpion before.. Sorry guy about the repair bill. I do have decent skills in Engineering. Most of the shield skills are up to lvl 4. Just to give you an idea on how good a Ferox is for shield tanking, when I have it setup for lvl 3 mission running, I have almost the same amount of shields as a Raven.
xenodia Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.09 16:55:00 - [22] Edited by: xenodia on 09/10/2006 16:58:41 Originally by: Praxor I'm at around 1.8mil sp Thats problem #1. At your SP level in a battlecruiser you will get pwned a LOT in pvp against more experienced players, or even players the same age who are specialized in cruisers or t2 frigates. At your age you should probably consider frigate or cruiser PvP while you train up some skills. Originally by: Praxor 5 Heavy Missile Launchers 2 250mm railguns 1 10mn MWD 1 Large Shield Booster 1 Medium Capacitor Booster (w/ cap 400s in it) 1 Warp Disruptor I 1 Large Shield Extender 3 Reactor Control Units 1 Nanomechanical CPU enhancer 5 x hornet drones Thats problem #2. Youre setup is closer to being a pve setup than a pvp one. You might try less shield tank and more NOS and/or ECM. Also, you need to learn which damage types each races ship are least resistant too, and try using missiles that do that damage type first. See if they plugged their resist hole or not. If they didnt, you can rip them up quicker. Originally by: Praxor The idea is for me to try and do as much DPS as possible from around 35km then zoom in to 20km and pin my opponent with the scrambler. Ideally, the MWD keeps me at a decent range (can get to around 700km/s with it). When the **zle hits the fan, I can turn on my cap booster to pump in 400 energy caps. Personally Id lose the MWD, especially if you plan to shield tank. Fit a webber instead, so you can web any inty or assault frig that gets close. Originally by:** Praxor Questions: how do I defend against a webber? I thought they had a short range like 10km. Perhaps he had a mwd too and got w/i range? He could have had a faction webber, which would have longer range. Or he could have simply MWD'd into range. Originally by: Praxor Is there a better method for me keeping targets at optimal range (eg., around 20km for my scrambler). Not really. Thats a fact of life when you fly big, fat, slow ships. Smaller stuff will always be able to dictate range. Nice thing for you though is that missiles are just as effective in close as they are farther out. You wont have as much trouble as say, a railgun boat, when targets get in close. Originally by: Praxor Similar questions ... how to defend ... this time against a NOS too? The only halfway viable defense against NOS (other than your own NOS) is cap boosters. You already had this one down. This signature space for rent
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.09 18:12:00 - [23] You need hardeners to have a good shield tank, and you died because of a lack of EM hardener (among other things). Train those missile skills. Drop the railguns for nos. Use 800 charges in the injector, you will get more cap per minute that way.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.09 19:33:00 - [24] IMO, a shield tanking ferox is a bad ferox. At best you can outtank cruisers, if you go injector + shield tank + damage mods. Youre much better off with an EW ferox, because you have the ability to engage a wider range of targets, as well as a better chance of escape if the situation goes south.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:32:00 - [25] The biggest problem is that you were shooting at smaller targets with heavy missles and low skills. Just to repeat, the Ferox can be a good ship, once you have the skills to support it properly. If you're having to use "fitting" mods (RCUs, CPUs), then you just aren't ready for it, as those items do abolutely nothing for the effectiveness of the ship. If you can work up to be able to swap those RCUs out for Power Diagnostics, then you will get the additional grid + cap recharge + shield recharge bonuses, helping your tank and cap problems. And if your plan is to inflict max damage, you really, really need to have at least 2 damage mods (ballistic controls for missles) in those lows. FREEE is Recruiting
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.10 01:09:00 - [26] The problem is definately ur setup. as ppl said before drop the rails for nos, this may sound arrogent but that isn't opinion it's a must. with 2 medium nos on that vengeance his guns and tank would be turned off completely after a short time. You need to improve ur fitting skills pretty quick so get some bcu's and pdu's in lows instead of the fitting junk. also i hate saying this but the way the current ecm system works, if u had 1 multi spec ecm u probably would have won easily because it's way overpowered altho at a higher sp lvl i prefer tank. But seriously don't underestimate nos. helps u tank a whole lot better and with smaller ships, especially amarr, it completely disables them and their guns turn off apart from maybe a few bursts from their nos giving them cap. i don't know of a single pvp ship that i own that hasn't got at least 1 nos. DE
Jimmy Doe Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.10.10 09:59:00 - [27] if youre looking to take down smaller ships or haulers, switch to light missiles in assault launchers, they will do better damage high: 5 heavy missile launchers (arbalest) or assault missile launchers 2 medium nos mids: 1 sensor booster 1 t2 large shield extender 1 t2 invul field 20km scram webber lows: 3 ballistic controls 1 PDU II or 2 pdu II and 2 bcu you can drop the sensor booster to equip a multispec jammer which isnt a bad thing. if you wanna go with an active setup, you can switch to 1 em, 1 kinetic, 1 therm 1 t2 invul and a large SB II. as others said you really dont have the SP to pvp in a BC, you can pve in it sure, but you should really switch out to an ecm caracal or something of that nature. a caracal would have dropped both of your opponents qhite easily because of the kinetic missile dmg bonus. also when loading out missiles for pvp i would usually use something like 2 em, 2 thermal, 1 exp. dont worry about reloading, just keep firing away. You look at me and you laugh at the noob, but look at your wallet and see that insurance the SCC just paid you for your loss
Praxor	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:25:00 - [28] Thank you all so much for the helpful input. I've modified my skill training accordingly. Thankfully, I can't play much these days, so logging in to make nothing more than a skill change is fine. ;-) Current question: which ECM should I use? I've tried both the long range ECM (around 30km optimal w/ 15km falloff) and the short range "burst" around 5km range w/ 5km falloff. Seems like someone sitting in between 10km and 15km would be out of range of both. Also, I'd rather just use one. Suggestions appreciated. Not sure if I should have started a new thread for this. Thanks again for the input. I look forward to PVP'ing again armed with my new knowledge and modules. ;-) P
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.10 15:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Praxor Thank you all so much for the helpful input. I've modified my skill training accordingly. Thankfully, I can't play much these days, so logging in to make nothing more than a skill change is fine. ;-) Current question: which ECM should I use? I've tried both the long range ECM (around 30km optimal w/ 15km falloff) and the short range "burst" around 5km range w/ 5km falloff. Seems like someone sitting in between 10km and 15km would be out of range of both. Also, I'd rather just use one. Suggestions appreciated. Not sure if I should have started a new thread for this. Thanks again for the input. I look forward to PVP'ing again armed with my new knowledge and modules. ;-) P With the exception of things like Artillery and Railguns, which can have tracking issues, there is no real minimum range on most weapons/mods in eve. And I think youre confused about what Falloff is. Falloff is the range BEYOND the optimal in which you can still be effective, though not as effective as within optimal. Thus, a 30k jammer with 15k falloff as you mentioned can in theory jam an opponent out to 45k, but it has a much better chance of doing so at 30k or less. There is no loss of effectiveness even at 1k range though. This signature space for rent
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Praxor Thank you all so much for the helpful input. I've modified my skill training accordingly. Thankfully, I can't play much these days, so logging in to make nothing more than a skill change is fine. ;-) Current question: which ECM should I use? I've tried both the long range ECM (around 30km optimal w/ 15km falloff) and the short range "burst" around 5km range w/ 5km falloff. Seems like someone sitting in between 10km and 15km would be out of range of both. Also, I'd rather just use one. Suggestions appreciated. Not sure if I should have started a new thread for this. Thanks again for the input. I look forward to PVP'ing again armed with my new knowledge and modules. ;-) P Well ECM bursts are a big no no. they are prett much eseless and ecm don't really work like that. u can still jam a target at 0km. fit 1 ecm multi spec jammer and have a blast DE



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