Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Elspeth Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 12:29:58 -
[1] - Quote
I was a little annoyed that a single Stratios broke the shield tank on my raven within a couple of minutes while I couldn't even make a small dent in the armour tank on the stratios.
Does anyone have any experience PVP'ing stratios'? I'm curious to know how much DPS you need to break the armour tank and what fittings people use to have that armour tank that they do. |
Elfred Gam'Havoc
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
31
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 14:24:03 -
[2] - Quote
Post on your main so we can dig up your loss on the killboard.
In light of that... fill your resist holes better, active tank solo, use target painters and drones. Use ammo that targets the Stratios' lowest resists... |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
536
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 21:02:45 -
[3] - Quote
It's called having a smaller sig radius and speed. Missiles suck at applying damage to targets who have both. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7511
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 21:57:33 -
[4] - Quote
Were you using Torpedos? Were you using you using Target Painters or Stasis Webifiers?
Large missiles (Torps in particular) are notorious for not applying anywhere near full potential damage... especially against targets capable of high speeds and small sig radius (see: "sensor footprint"). The only way around this problem is liberal use of Electronic Warfare (TPs and Webs in particular).
"The Skillpoint System and You"
"How did you Veterans start?"
|
MasterGlorfy
Filthy Peasants Mostly Hammered
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:12:32 -
[5] - Quote
Elspeth Deninard wrote:I was a little annoyed that a single Stratios broke the shield tank on my raven within a couple of minutes while I couldn't even make a small dent in the armour tank on the stratios.
Does anyone have any experience PVP'ing stratios'? I'm curious to know how much DPS you need to break the armour tank and what fittings people use to have that armour tank that they do.
By you not being able to make a dent, do you mean your damage application was terrible, his buffer was huge, or that he was repping through it easily?
As it was said by Elfred, post with your main, we can look up your lossmail, and any stratios lossmails of your adversary and see what he was likely fitting and then we can give you better advice.
Barring all that, what everyone else said: large missiles don't apply well so that's a big part of your problem
Filthy Peasants
|
Chelien Adoudel
Lemony Fresh.
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:48:46 -
[6] - Quote
This post reminds me of Jonny Pew's Navy Raven kill.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/44419391/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3rB_jBmSgA |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2030
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:49:12 -
[7] - Quote
Sorry, it's impossible give anything but the most generic advice without more specific information.
Stratios tend to be armor buffter tanked. In those instances their tanks don't "break". |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
567
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 22:56:52 -
[8] - Quote
Link your fit for real. Remember that drone ships like the Stratios can choose their damage type via drone selection, so if you're in a PvE Raven heavily weighted to resist incoming rat damage and someone drops a flight of Praetors into your EM hole you're going to be in for a very bad day.
I will also second what others have said, which was that you probably weren't applying anywhere near full damage to a PvP fit cruiser. The resist bonus on the Stratios means it can get a pretty decent active tank, but the bigger issue is that you probably just weren't hitting it very hard to begin with.
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Sorry, it's impossible give anything but the most generic advice without more specific information.
Stratios tend to be armor buffter tanked. In those instances their tanks don't "break".
If it's a nullsec ratter hunter, an active armor tank is actually fairly likely. Weighing yourself down with plates makes it harder to catch targets or deal with bubbles and there aren't going to be any convenient repair opportunities deep in hostile renter space. |
Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
108
|
Posted - 2015.02.26 11:31:13 -
[9] - Quote
a fairly standard dual rep stratios depending on the use of boosters (very likely, since tracking malus is not really a concern on a strat, and cap malus isnt'e enough to put a dent in it) and or links can easily tank 500+ to 900+ dps for as long as he has cap boosters to shovel in and keep the reppers going |
Ragnar Haligon
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.01 19:52:21 -
[10] - Quote
Here's the kill link https://zkillboard.com/kill/44686627/
I was tanking the rats just fine. He showed up and started looting my wrecks. I had cruise missiles, no torps and target painter along with scout and medium drones.
his shields went down reasonably quick, but the armour was hopeless to make a dent in. I'd see a small bit of red, and then gone. |
|
Spoz Virtus
Starcade Group Elemental Tide
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 01:33:21 -
[11] - Quote
I have ran some numbers on Eve Fitting tool to help you understand how missiles work and how ineffective they are against smaller, fast ships.
If your target has an afterburner fit (likely) then at max speed you would only do 90 damage per second (DPS) to him even with the target painter applied. This is before his resists which are most likely weakest to explosive damage but easily above 60% with an energized adaptive nano membrane. This does not include any drone damage which is probably negligible anyhow.
90 DPS before resists would be easy to tank with an armor repairer or two.
Here is the graph: http://prntscr.com/6blmds
(Without the target painter you would deal about 68 DPS before resists. The reason why the graph drops suddenly is due to the target painters falloff showing you are not going to be applying it properly at range.)
Now had he been stationary you would have hit for 400 DPS before armor... it was his speed that meant your cruise missiles explosion couldn't apply full damage. http://prntscr.com/6bln1k
Now I notice the Raven also has bonuses to Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers so I ran the numbers for RHML vs the enemy using an afterburner (at about 600m/s) - and you would be impressed with the results of 300 DPS before resists: http://prntscr.com/6blnzb
Amusingly if you had had light missile launchers fitted you would have actually also have done 100 DPS before resists to him when he was travelling at max speed.
Finally the reasons:
Missiles have an explosion velocity and explosion radius. They compare their explosion velocity to target speed and the explosion radius to target signature. If the target is going faster than the explosion velocity and/or has less of a signature than the explosion radius then it will take much reduced damage. Cruise missiles have a poor explosion velocity and a large explosion radius - both bad against a fast moving and small cruiser sized ship that you fought. This is why stealth bombers get completely destroyed by interceptors - their torpedoes barely do 20 DPS if the interceptor is moving. |
Dersk
Perkone Caldari State
201
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 04:19:22 -
[12] - Quote
Elspeth Deninard wrote:How much DPS do you need to break the tank on a Stratios?
Seven |
Orlacc
819
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 04:36:07 -
[13] - Quote
As explained above at length it is applied DPS you need. Many factors affect that.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
|
Mr Chili Palmer
InterSun Freelance SONS of BANE
171
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 10:02:30 -
[14] - Quote
Ragnar Haligon wrote:Here's the kill link https://zkillboard.com/kill/44686627/ I was tanking the rats just fine. He showed up and started looting my wrecks. I had cruise missiles, no torps and target painter along with scout and medium drones. his shields went down reasonably quick, but the armour was hopeless to make a dent in. I'd see a small bit of red, and then gone.
so he baited you into this by looting your wrecks and you thought Mmmmm am gonna have him, personally i would of let him loot the wrecks.
"If at first you don't succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried"
"If your boss is getting you down, look at him through the prongs of a fork and imagine him in jail"
|
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1445
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 19:21:28 -
[15] - Quote
Dersk wrote:Elspeth Deninard wrote:How much DPS do you need to break the tank on a Stratios? Seven No no no.
The answer is 42.
My Many Misadventures
Reading Comprehension: so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I seek to create content, not become content.
|
Burticus Cesaille
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.02 19:45:03 -
[16] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Dersk wrote:Elspeth Deninard wrote:How much DPS do you need to break the tank on a Stratios? Seven No no no. The answer is 42.
Common mistake...This is in fact the meaning of life. |
Ragnar Haligon
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 01:00:22 -
[17] - Quote
So would a stasis webifier have been more effective than a target painter? |
Paranoid Loyd
4003
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 02:09:51 -
[18] - Quote
Ragnar Haligon wrote:So would a stasis webifier have been more effective than a target painter? If he was orbiting close enough maybe but that's not really relevant. Bottom line is if you are not PVP fit you should not engage someone who is. Even if you did start to get into his tank before he stripped yours off, you had no way of warp disrupting him and he would have just warped off.
Your EM tank was only 39K EHP with a recharge of 96 DPS, that is a super easy kill for a Stratios especially if you are only doing approximately 200 dps if that while he is applying roughly 400-500 dps shooting through your non-existent EM tank. If I had to guess he was dual repped and could rep approximately 300dps so you wouldn't even come close to breaking it. Even if he was only plated he still would have beat you as a plated fit would have more EHP than your fit and he was doing somewhere around twice the damage.
This is all speculation of course as we can only see one side of the story.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
|
Orlacc
820
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 03:53:52 -
[19] - Quote
Don't PVP when you are fitted for PVE.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
34257
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 11:00:49 -
[20] - Quote
Burticus Cesaille wrote:Bronson Hughes wrote:The answer is 42. Common mistake...This is in fact the meaning of life. This is also a common mistake.
It's not the meaning of life, but the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
|
Davir Sometaww
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
45
|
Posted - 2015.03.03 17:29:24 -
[21] - Quote
Dual rep armor tanked raven with X2 smart bombs wI'll rip a stratios. I'm not kidding. I'll post fit later |
Lucretia DeWinter
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
204
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 19:40:43 -
[22] - Quote
Your attacker lost probably very same Stratios, so you can look up the likely fit if you brwose his killboard.
Dual medium deadspace reppers gives a pretty decent active tank - and a deadspace afterburner too = more than enough for a PVE Raven with Cruise missiles.
Cap boosters and a nuet too means pretty much any standard fit PVE ship is going to come off worse to this and that's waht wreck baiters are counting on.
DO NOT shoot people looting your stuff in hisec... This should be in the Raven's item description.
If it's any comfort, his Stration was 3 times as expensive as your Raven... |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
155
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 22:03:13 -
[23] - Quote
Davir Sometaww wrote:Dual rep armor tanked raven with X2 smart bombs wI'll rip a stratios. I'm not kidding. I'll post fit later Interested in your fit, not sure you get it cap stable with plus against the neut with smartbombs. I think rapid heavies are better. The following cheap fit might work ... 580dps, 670 tank with all V.
[Raven armor, Raven] Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II 100MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II
'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Anti-Explosive Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Valkyrie II x5
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1835
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 10:39:57 -
[24] - Quote
Look up the concept of signature tanking. You can kill a battleship with a frigate - it has little to do with EHP.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2669
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 21:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cruise vs cruiser sized active armor tanking ship is basically trying to beat up a fire with a chocolate hammer. |
Lok Tsen
Bob's Unicorns of Destruction
3
|
Posted - 2015.03.14 15:21:17 -
[26] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/45077735/
That was likely his fit. Study and have an alt in a pvp ship ready to counter next time. |
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.16 11:54:40 -
[27] - Quote
As people already explained in the thread he could've facetanked your raven on one (1) repper even standing/webbed completely still in space. It is obvious that you have no idea of eve-math, when you ask random questions like "would a web been more effective?"
First of all anyone (easy to say hard to do) can design numerous counters if they know the exact fit he is running. Warp in a double web Vindi and melt him. But you can also fit a ship to pin and neut him down and kill his drones and just wait until he is out of cap chargers. Now he can't tank you anymore.
If your looking for numbers, you're looking at it from the wrong angle, application, application.
QFT
"DO NOT shoot people looting your stuff in hisec... This should be in the Raven's item description."
Also never pvp in your pve **** fit. A pve optimized fit is even worse to PVP in.
.
|
Aeryn Atropos
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 16:45:59 -
[28] - Quote
Elspeth Deninard wrote:I was a little annoyed that a single Stratios broke the shield tank on my raven within a couple of minutes while I couldn't even make a small dent in the armour tank on the stratios.
Does anyone have any experience PVP'ing stratios'? I'm curious to know how much DPS you need to break the armour tank and what fittings people use to have that armour tank that they do.
Two VERY important questions must be asked first.
Was he wearing AR 670-1 approved boots?
Were you wearing your PT belt?
But seriously, everyone else pointed out the fact that your pve fit ship was in no way capable of handling a faction cruiser fit for pvp. In general Battleships in pvp should be supported by friends to help them apply their dps or they need to stick to BC and above targets.
If you are in a ship fit for ratting and someone else shows up, run! 9/10 They are only there because they know they can take you or they have friendlies waiting to back them up. |
Davir Sometaww
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
46
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 04:31:08 -
[29] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Davir Sometaww wrote:Dual rep armor tanked raven with X2 smart bombs wI'll rip a stratios. I'm not kidding. I'll post fit later Interested in your fit, not sure you get it cap stable with plus against the neut with smartbombs. I think rapid heavies are better. The following cheap fit might work ... 580dps, 670 tank with all V. [Raven armor, Raven] Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II 100MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile 'Arbalest' Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Anti-Explosive Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Valkyrie II x5
I promise when i get back from work i'll post the fit.
It works surprinsgly effective on rokh and raven. |
Aeryn Maricadie
Periphery Bound
7
|
Posted - 2015.03.22 21:00:02 -
[30] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Cruise vs cruiser sized active armor tanking ship is basically trying to beat up a fire with a chocolate hammer. I am so gonna steal this phrase |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |