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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 05:58:00 -
[1]
So far I haven't come up with a good name for the module, as you can plainly see. The idea is this: a module that uses CPU and Grid and in exchange can be placed in a high slot/mid slot/low slot and exchanges that slot for a high/mid/low. There would of course be 9 distinct types of this module: one for each slot type (high/mid/low) and then it's sub variants for type of slot added.
Note that adding more high slots to a ship wouldn't add more hardpoints for missiles/turrets, just the high slot. And there could be a possible further limitation that only one of these modules is allowed to be fitted per ship, similar to a damage control.
This concept is just an extension of the 'rigs' concept, but would allow for more flexibility and uniqueness (is that a word?) in ship setups, while still allowing for each ship to retain it's original design focus.
These modules wouldn't be the instant 'perfect fix, I win' button either. They would use enough CPU and grid so that it wouldn't be a complete no-brainer free lunch type situation. It would always be a compromise as to how you fit your ship, but modules like this would allow a little bit more flexibility.
These modules could also have the further restriction that only players could produce them, but the BPOs/BPCs are freely available on the market, all that is required are rare materials that can only be generated through NPC style missions, or mining/harvesting in low sec/0.0 etc. so that some more player interactivity is built into the production process and bringing more player (carebear) interest to low sec/0.0.
So in addition to all the knee jerk flames that are surely going to present themselves, I'd also like to hear any suggestions as to what we should name the modules. 
Because I said so...
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Benglada
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.13 06:00:00 -
[2]
Surprise, it goes in the idea forum :S
---------------------------
 Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 07:42:00 -
[3]
another big surprise, no one reads the ideas forum :p
Because I said so...
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Mo Minor
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Posted - 2006.10.13 07:50:00 -
[4]
as far as i can tell, "uniqueness" is a real word.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 07:58:00 -
[5]
ok, so I have one post telling me that I'm in the wrong forum, and another agreeing that my grammar and spelling is correct. Any posts about my idea?
Because I said so...
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2006.10.13 08:56:00 -
[6]
Being that the game is balanced in terms of slot allocations, adnd racial characteristics are also defined in this way, a mod such as this would allow for some crazy setups that should never exist. A Raven that would take the extra 2 high slots and put them in mids for EW or lows for an armor tank would simply be too powerful. An apoc with 2 more low slots or two more mid slots would also be too powerful. And so on. . .
The real question is: why do you want to have a mod that does this?
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.13 08:59:00 -
[7]
So, do I get this correct. This module takes, for example, some powergrid, some CPU, and a low slot and in return adds a mid slot?
It's just too bad the number of slots on a ship isn't a variable, so they can't be increased or decreased, afaik.
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Three years old |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.13 09:08:00 -
[8]
I think it could end up being extremely hard to balance. I like the idea in a general sense, but ... well, reckon we'd start seeing all manner of 'i win' combos using it.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 09:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ithildin
So, do I get this correct. This module takes, for example, some powergrid, some CPU, and a low slot and in return adds a mid slot?
It's just too bad the number of slots on a ship isn't a variable, so they can't be increased or decreased, afaik.
That's correct. And there would be individual modules for each type of change required. Additionally I should point out that the CPU/Grid requirements to install one of these modules could be quite significant for balancing reasons. So all the guys thinking about the uber ECM Raven setups etc, think about the limiting factors of CPU/Grid usage as well.
Because I said so...
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Countessa D'Marko
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Posted - 2006.10.13 10:07:00 -
[10]
.... 9 distinct types of this module: one for each slot type (high/mid/low) and then it's sub variants for type of slot added.
I want to use one of these, a mid slot module that uses cpu & grid to give me ... a mid slot o.O
Sorry - just being picky there - but as has been said before, converting utility highs into tanking/ew slots would be generally a 'bad thing'
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 10:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Countessa D'Marko
.... 9 distinct types of this module: one for each slot type (high/mid/low) and then it's sub variants for type of slot added.
I want to use one of these, a mid slot module that uses cpu & grid to give me ... a mid slot o.O
Sorry - just being picky there - but as has been said before, converting utility highs into tanking/ew slots would be generally a 'bad thing'
yer right about the module count. there needs to be 6 types, not 9 lol.
What if there was only allowed a maximum of 8 slots in any one position? So for example if you were flying a Geddon w/ 8 lows, you couldn't add in another low? So far I'm still not feeling the 'too many mids' arguement. Looks to me that what I'm suggesting would simply work to put ships like the Megathron or Geddon on even footing with ships like the Raven, Tempest etc. with respect to mid slot options. And I don't think that given some decnet CPU/Grid requirements for these modules that you'd be handing a Scorp/Raven etc. an "I win" combo.
Because I said so...
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Lakotnik
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Posted - 2006.10.13 10:55:00 -
[12]
Hmmm even with only one module, ship capabilites can be increased a lot. For example, geddon wont miss one hislot but will kill for another med. Raven will gladly sacrafice one of hislots for another med. Most of the ships have one slot they can spare for another med. Better ew/tackle. Ferox with another lowslot for better passive tank?
So - nope, i strongly disagree.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 11:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lakotnik
Hmmm even with only one module, ship capabilites can be increased a lot. For example, geddon wont miss one hislot but will kill for another med. Raven will gladly sacrafice one of hislots for another med. Most of the ships have one slot they can spare for another med. Better ew/tackle. Ferox with another lowslot for better passive tank?
So - nope, i strongly disagree.
Precisely. Lets see what the players do with the extra flexibility. Lets see what kinds of setups become the most popular and effective. Remember that we're not just limiting this to one particular ship or another- *anyone* can use this module to adjust their ship as they see fit.
What I think we would see are a lot of ships having their major design issues/flaws compensated for and we'd see a much wider variety of ship setups used. Right now there is a very narrow range of effective ship setups when it comes to PVP, especially solo PVP. This module concept would allow for more variety and more creativity in ship setups, and attacking a specific type of ship wouldn't be such a sure thing with regards to assumptions about how it's fit.
Given the choice, most people prefer a Raven over a Geddon for PVP due to the Raven's superior flexibility due to the current state of the game mechanics (i.e. because they're horribly flawed, but w/e). If this module were available, I think we would see a rise in the use of Geddons for example vs. Ravens or other more common PVP ships. Sure, the Raven pilots might have the same opportunity to modify their ships in the same fashion, but at least the Geddon pilots have some sort of option available to them compared to the current state of the game.
Moving one or two module slots isn't going to completely change the way a ship works. There are still it's ship bonuses and it's fitting limitations to consider. A Megathron isn't going to become a Tempest and a Dominix isn't going to become a Raven. Each ship will still be very unique and will retain it's intended design.
What I *do* see happening however is a wider number of ships being used for PVP than is currently the case, and in ways more creative and interesting than would otherwise be the case. With a sliding CPU/Grid use penalty for the modules, like 2% base CPU and Grid for instance, using the modules wouldn't be a 'free' option. BCs and BS would get hit harder than the smaller ships would, and with setups already *extremely* tight with respect to CPU/Grid, using one of these modules wouldn't be without it's own very imposing set of limitations. It isn't just some instant 'I win' module. Not if it's designed/balanced correctly.
Anyway, I encourage everyone to actually think about all the possibilities and implications of something like this and come up with more ideas of how to balance it and how it could be best implemented.
Because I said so...
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.13 11:45:00 -
[14]
It's the differences between ships that give them all their unique flavours.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.13 13:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
It's the differences between ships that give them all their unique flavours.
Again, how would this decrease ship differences? If anything it could possibly make each design a more extreme version of it's original focus.
Because I said so...
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Skarkus
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Posted - 2006.10.17 05:19:00 -
[16]
I think its a great idea, nothing wrong with more flexibility, don't let these naysayers get you down, They just don't want to have to think more. They don't want to have to take their game to the next level. They all want to use their familiar setups that they copied from these very forums where they moan and groan all day. and they justify it with the I-win button argument. but if you can do it to any ship, its handing them all an I win button isn't it? Get over it folks
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Spanker
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Posted - 2006.10.17 06:58:00 -
[17]
I like it a lot. Highly specialized setups requiring highly gimped PG/CPU, excellent. Bung a paint-my-ship-pink option in that lot and we're all set.
- Shpank |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 07:14:00 -
[18]
I don't like the idea, simply because I have already though of how to make a raven too win using it 
I doubt I'm the only one.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Spanker
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Posted - 2006.10.17 07:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I don't like the idea, simply because I have already though of how to make a raven too win using it
I doubt I'm the only one.
You're the only one not taking into account the nerfs to PG/CPU you get :)
- Shpank |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 07:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Spanker
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I don't like the idea, simply because I have already though of how to make a raven too win using it
I doubt I'm the only one.
You're the only one not taking into account the nerfs to PG/CPU you get :)
Trust me, I could live with it.
If they make them small enough that it's even possible to fit a setup with those borks, I'll be able to make something broken. If they make them too large, what's the point? 
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Spanker
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Posted - 2006.10.17 07:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Spanker
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I don't like the idea, simply because I have already though of how to make a raven too win using it
I doubt I'm the only one.
You're the only one not taking into account the nerfs to PG/CPU you get :)
Trust me, I could live with it.
If they make them small enough that it's even possible to fit a setup with those borks, I'll be able to make something broken. If they make them too large, what's the point?
So what you're saying is, the only possible slot layout for a raven without making it broken is its current one? Also remember that while you come up with nifty setups for your modified Raven, others will be doing the same with the rest of the ships you'll be facing on the field!
- Shpank |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 07:37:00 -
[22]
Well, ships which use up all their highslots with hardpoints (apoc for example), ships with extremely tight fitting (megathron, dominix) and can't spare lowslots for fitting mods (which is a lot) would have an incredible disadvantage in this. And yes, I am prepared to sacrfice 2 highs and 2 lows (fitting mods and utility slots) for the 8midslot raven of win. If 2 fitting mods won't cover the cost, what ship would possible use it?
I just can't see it adding anything worthwhile to the game, and it will be near impossible to balance.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Spanker
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Posted - 2006.10.17 08:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I just can't see it adding anything worthwhile to the game, and it will be near impossible to balance.
That's where it all falls down of course. There are already ships covering every conceivable slot layout, it's part of what separates the races. Apocs have highs and lows and few midslots, it's what makes them Apocs.
I still want my paint job though!
- Shpank |
Katrina Coreli
Vindication Angels
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Posted - 2006.10.17 08:46:00 -
[24]
id still love to see uber modules that take up two slots like an Extreamly powerful railgun that takes up a high and a low, impossible to balence but sstill so cool
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Synapse X
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:41:00 -
[25]
Dominix with 2 highs, 8 mids, 8 lows, ouch.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Spanker
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I just can't see it adding anything worthwhile to the game, and it will be near impossible to balance.
That's where it all falls down of course. There are already ships covering every conceivable slot layout, it's part of what separates the races.
But no 8 midslot raven! And there's a reason why 
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Polinus
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:53:00 -
[27]
Lol, when I read the title I tought It would be something like a device tha tuses a slot. And makes possible to load whle flying another device on that slot (than it must be refit to the changer). Or something that makes possible to change things on anotehr slot while flying. (Uses a mid slot and makes possible to change a device A in another mid Slot for a device B in 20 seconds for example)
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JustBlaze
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:31:00 -
[28]
make it like a damage control and limit it to 1 of each and it will be supa.
will be supaness
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