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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
91
   |
Posted - 2015.03.06 16:19:25 -
[1] - Quote
So with all the capital hate thats going on lately, be it from fighter/bomber scan res nerf, to no more assist, no skynet and warps, give us something to do with our shinies.
All you naysayers of capitals and no risk versus reward hear me out...
Let caps/supers use acceleration gates and dock. no, no hear me out.
1) Acceleration gates. What were the two main blocks for capitals to go into incursions? I mean other than no capitals in highsec. Cyno jammed systems and acceration gates into deadspace. Well cyno jams are meaningless now, we can just gate to gate into the incursion system. Second is acceleration gates.
If CCP allows capitals to use acceleration gates what will that do? It will allow us to do nullsec/lowsec incursions AND escalations. What does that mean for the naysayers? MOAR content. You want more opportunities to hunt ratting carriers? There you go. Carriers in the 3rd room of the Blood 10/10 taking huge amounts of damage from that tower and the mass of battleships will be hard pressed to escape when you come in with your hunting party. HUGE risk. Decent rewards from those 10/10's... Incursions present a different angle, that nullsec mom offers the biggest reward of all, the Revenant BPC. GARGANTUAN Reward GARGANTUAN risk.
Throw us a bone CCP, you want to take all the positives away from carriers? OK we can't stop you, but throw me a freakin bone!
2) Docking in station. This is going to gather probably 6000 "No, just plain no" statements. Well again, listen. If you allow capitals to dock, it will allow those space coffin dwellers a chance to get out of them for one thing and be able to pee vee pee in other stuff. But it will also make those station and sov conquer mechanics more valuable wont they? You still have freeport mode, and that gives an attacker an opportunity to bring in their own capital fleet with a place to put them for good fights. Honestly, I would just like an opportunity to let the damn thing rust and not worry about it for awhile. I mean come on, if you are taking away all usefulness of the stupid things let us drydock them and walk away.
Either give us something to do with them, or give us a way to walk away.
Let the flaming begin.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3554
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 16:31:03 -
[2] - Quote
You have a way to walk away. Two ways, actually.
The first is called "Eject". The second is called "Self-Destruct".
Allowing anything larger than a subcap into PvE content that has been balanced around subcaps would be hilarious at best and disastrous for the economy at worst.
Death to all Supers.
|
Iain Cariaba
1099
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 16:48:46 -
[3] - Quote
Capitals using acceleration gates: Sure, let me solo a 10/10 in 10 minutes. This is a good idea. Incursions? Let's make them pretty much risk free due to the massive reps a pair of triage carriers can bring to the field. Moar isk!!!! Oh, and if you can't warp a capital out in the minutes it takes that hunting party to probe down your escalation, warp to it, and navigate through to the third room, then you deserve to lose it. Bringing capitals into sites is a bad idea, because it makes them safer to run, and safer for the capital pilot.
Docking Supers: What good fights during freeport period? You mean the fight where the super pilots realize they're camped in, and simply log out for a week, then one ot two at a time log in, undock with hangars full of stuff, and jump away before they can get locked down? Or do you mean the one where the evacuating coalition drops a thousand pilots into the system in advance, blue balling any real blockade of the station while the supers and jump freighters jump out with all the stuff?
Death to all Supers.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
|
Viki Imsdal
Synapse.
The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 16:58:30 -
[4] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:You have a way to walk away. Two ways, actually.
The first is called "Eject". The second is called "Self-Destruct".
Allowing anything larger than a subcap into PvE content that has been balanced around subcaps would be hilarious at best and disastrous for the economy at worst.
Death to all Supers.
Think about how you would you react if one day CCP said to you, "as of now, 30 billion ISK worth of your assets (or everything you have if worth less) no longer has any use or purpose in Eve. Your character will be unable to do anything new until you trash it all."
Regardless of your opinion on super capitals or their role in Eve, the majority of players who own these ships put a lot of time and effort into training and buying/building them. To say they should simply destroy these assets if they want to countinue to play the game on that character is completely unreasonable and inconsiderate.
As for PVE content, I agree that allowing capitals and/or supers into environments that are currently forbidden to them would be incredibly unbalanced. Perhaps creating new content balanced for capital sized engagements would be an alternative option. |
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 17:00:43 -
[5] - Quote
There are two ways for a super cap pilot to leave his coffin, put his super in an XL Ship Maintenance Array or eject from it in the safety of a POS bubble. Both of these I am ok with, however docking in a station. No. Why? Well it's not just about risk/reward. It's about balance and investment too. They shouldn't have a place to run to permanent safety and forcing you to lock in a pilot to own one is about investment into owning one. As spiderman's uncle once said, "With great power comes great chance of dying in a fire alone in space with your giant space phallus" At least, I think that's how it goes...
Running sites and incursions with supers/carriers is just way too unbalanced and there is a good reason why they can't do it already.
Also, supercapitals and capitals will remain massive force multipliers and the fact that they are no longer needed to sov grind is a great thing in my opinion and in now way reduces their usefulness as far as I am concerned. Wait for their balance changes bud, then we'll talk.
|
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
144
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 17:28:40 -
[6] - Quote
ceptor with combat probes can one cycle hit a capital then warp to it. that's 6 seconds after jumping into a system before warping to the site the cap is in. 3rd room that's only an extra 30 seconds for a ceptor
align time on a carrier is? around 45 seconds. if he went for a quick **** while his drones do the work, then even better.
it puts carriers out in the open. thought you guys wanted that? |
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 17:29:30 -
[7] - Quote
Off topic:
This topic is going to get some pretty interesting replies.. judging from the title alone.
I got my money on the "death to all supers" thingy.
On topic:
Supers are and will remain force projection multipliers and I have to agree with previous posts stating they should be so. I would hate to see roaming supercap/cap fleets 'jumping around'. Was training for them a time waste? Not really, although their use is taking a different path atm. The fact that a player trained for a specific skill for x days does not secure its future uses and should not be reimbursed unless it becomes obsolete. Else each change of the meta would become a whinefest.
However aside from personal views, I would wait to see what Fanfest and future brings to SOV. |
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 17:35:19 -
[8] - Quote
Ncc 1709 wrote:ceptor with combat probes can one cycle hit a capital then warp to it. that's 6 seconds after jumping into a system before warping to the site the cap is in. 3rd room that's only an extra 30 seconds for a ceptor
align time on a carrier is? around 45 seconds. if he went for a quick **** while his drones do the work, then even better.
it puts carriers out in the open. thought you guys wanted that?
A carrier set up for fast ratting would be fit for fast warp (If they're smart) and could warp in a single MWD cycle (10 seconds). Carrier not fit for fast warp can warp in about 30 seconds with decent nav skills.
Also he can run the site while aligned out very easily.
Not to mention a ceptor can't tackle a super carrier.
It doesn't put them out in the open any more than they are, and it would be safer to use a carrier to do those site rather than any other ship.
Also, a can also jump away if he needs to before you even get there. They can also fit enough warp stabs that your ceptor can't hold it (If they use a mobile depot or buddy carrier). |
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
91
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 17:50:56 -
[9] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:
Running sites and incursions with supers/carriers is just way too unbalanced and there is a good reason why they can't do it already.
I did put on my flame retardant underwear before posting this.
Well, the Urobouros site does require at minimum what 40, 60 pilots to do at minimum influence? You can't tell me that is risk free, especially in nullsec. When was the last time you did an incursion? They are if anything risk free, especially in null sec. There's a reason that the big incursion groups offer an SRP. You still have to grind the influence down just to get the Mom to spawn from what I remember, and until you do, you are suffering from resistance, repping and damage penalties.
The null sec incursions are pretty much unvisited because of the massive amount of grinding influence, with the only reward being concord payout if in fact you pop the mom.
Why would you (not necessarily you, but other posters) care if someone is making isk with their shiny? I do non acceleration gate escalations and sanctums/havens/forsaken hubs in my super. What's the big issue people have with more content or people making money? PVE in a carrier or super is putting my ship at risk. Look at the kadeshi killboard anytime and see that. But we aren't skerred to go out in shiny stuff and do it.
I thought people wanted more risk for their rewards. If want to go do pve with my shiny, and you want to pop me? Come get me. I'll make you work for it.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
91
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:01:28 -
[10] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:
A carrier set up for fast ratting would be fit for fast warp (If they're smart) and could warp in a single MWD cycle (10 seconds). Carrier not fit for fast warp can warp in about 30 seconds with decent nav skills.
Also he can run the site while aligned out very easily.
Not to mention a ceptor can't tackle a super carrier.
It doesn't put them out in the open any more than they are, and it would be safer to use a carrier to do those site rather than any other ship.
Also, a can also jump away if he needs to before you even get there. They can also fit enough warp stabs that your ceptor can't hold it (If they use a mobile depot or buddy carrier).
Let's address that issue directly;
How many low slots does a thanny have? Six. Ok lets fit one for ratting; Damage Control? Check, Race specific hardener? Check. Capital repper? Check. DDA? I'll take 2. Plus an i-stab...that leaves me with....oh wait. I can't fit a warp core stab now. So my fast warp? Not so fast. Wait I'm switching targets...where did that ceptor come...oh im warp scrambled. Oh great ok, mobile depot, mobile depot, ok lets put those warp stabs...oh crap here's his buddies.
On paper yes that sounds great, but not so great in practice.
A ceptor can't tackle a super but a hictor can. You don't hunt carriers or supers with one ship, you hunt them in gangs. If you are looking for small pvp leave the carrier alone, find an easier target.
Your argument doesn't address what is happening now with carriers and supers in anomolies, so why bother? Carriers and supers get tackled all the time in anoms.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:42:52 -
[11] - Quote
Panther X wrote:
I did put on my flame retardant underwear before posting this.
Well, the Urobouros site does require at minimum what 40, 60 pilots to do at minimum influence? You can't tell me that is risk free, especially in nullsec. When was the last time you did an incursion? They are if anything risk free, especially in null sec. There's a reason that the big incursion groups offer an SRP. You still have to grind the influence down just to get the Mom to spawn from what I remember, and until you do, you are suffering from resistance, repping and damage penalties.
...
I thought people wanted more risk for their rewards. If want to go do pve with my shiny, and you want to pop me? Come get me. I'll make you work for it.
I never said incursions were unbalanced, I said doing them with carriers would be. Using a fleet of carriers to run them would be exponentially faster and safer. With carrier reps on field they aren't going to die. Not to mention cyno jammer constellation wide.
Panther X wrote:
Let's address that issue directly;
How many low slots does a thanny have? Six. Ok lets fit one for ratting; Damage Control? Check, Race specific hardener? Check. Capital repper? Check. DDA? I'll take 2. Plus an i-stab...that leaves me with....oh wait. I can't fit a warp core stab now. So my fast warp? Not so fast. Wait I'm switching targets...where did that ceptor come...oh im warp scrambled. Oh great ok, mobile depot, mobile depot, ok lets put those warp stabs...oh crap here's his buddies.
On paper yes that sounds great, but not so great in practice.
A ceptor can't tackle a super but a hictor can. You don't hunt carriers or supers with one ship, you hunt them in gangs. If you are looking for small pvp leave the carrier alone, find an easier target.
Your argument doesn't address what is happening now with carriers and supers in anomolies, so why bother? Carriers and supers get tackled all the time in anoms.
I did say mobile depot did I not? *Checks own post* Yup, I did. Now let's address your bigotry directly. Let's fit for rating (The way that a smart person would, if he could do it with a carrier)
- Damage Control? Don't need it.
- Race specific hardener? Don't need that either.
- Capital Repper? Barely need that but throw it on just in case.
- DDA? Yea sure we can take 2 of those.
- Inertia Stabilizers for quick warp? Take 2 of those (Can now warp in 1 MWD cycle)
- Hyperspacial Accelertor? Oh we still have space for that wow.
- Mobile depot I can rep with a capital remote repair and 6 warp stabs in the cargo hold? Check
- Directional Scanner and Emergency Cyno Alt? Depends how smart you are I guess.
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3130
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:45:49 -
[12] - Quote
Allow supercaps to crash into outposts to destroy them, killing two birds with one stone.
Post on the Eve-o forums with a Goonswarm Federation character that drinking bleach is bad for you, and 20 forum warriors will hospitalise themselves trying to prove you wrong.
|
Master Sergeant MacRobert
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
178
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:53:24 -
[13] - Quote
I've no objection to the addition if Cap/Super PvE content.
Why not have null sec 10/10 escalate to 20/10 cap fights with a super accepting accel gates that requires a pass key for supers (no two or more supers at once spider tanking). One room with lots of LCO . Good AI that thinks about targets and packs a punch befitting of the spawn ship type.
They should take a look at NPC faction and officer (commander) spawns and mix it up with 1 assault Frig, 1 HAC, 1 Bs & 1 cap spawn for the meta's 11-14. Change the loot drops for the same metas to be hull size specific ie:- Meta 11 frig mods, meta 12 cruiser/BC size etc.
I don't mean this to lower the tanki-ness of the officer spawns but they could do with variety (rather than just tier 1-4 value). There is soo much that could be done with these metas.
2.
Allow Supers to dock. No but perhaps yes.
Allow them to dock to a station docking ring yes. Player owned stations only. Docking ring fitted allows 1 super then plus one per level of upgrade. Then work out a system to allow docking rings to be attacked (perhaps this is your new structure grind) that either disables the ring and the super from undock or perhaps even damages the docked super.
There remains a lot to see from what I would expect to be a serious balance pass at the top end ships. Let us hope CCP intend to do something.
"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
|
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
138
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 18:55:55 -
[14] - Quote
I'm very thankful that CCP does not take advice from threads such as these. I hope that one day some of you might understand the difference between content and balance and also the difference between things you want and things that are good for the game. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
185
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 19:22:10 -
[15] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Allow supercaps to crash into outposts to destroy them, killing two birds with one stone.
If that happens, I might actually finally have a reason to buy one.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Hairpins Blueprint
CBC Interstellar
Fidelas Constans
162
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 19:37:20 -
[16] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:You have a way to walk away. Two ways, actually.
The first is called "Eject". The second is called "Self-Destruct".
Allowing anything larger than a subcap into PvE content that has been balanced around subcaps would be hilarious at best and disastrous for the economy at worst.
Death to all Supers.
OFC, coz skills to pilot, build; time wasted on onerous work to craft the damn thing .... but it's op so let's just make it a ussles asset.
Scan ress nerf to fighters make supers bad at ratting, and titans were nerfed long time ago : (
Content is only taken from cap pilots while nothing is added to fill the gap.
At lest le people to dock the damn thing so they can forget about them; insted of forcing people to keep theire toons in space coffins. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
940
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 20:35:09 -
[17] - Quote
Let them dock and drop the EWAR immunity. At least its a start. |
Lienzo
Amanuensis
44
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:11:45 -
[18] - Quote
Sov needs content for all sized groups. If anything, entosis modules should be restricted to SBUs. They should prep the field for bigger task forces to enter the fray.
Entosis modules should also be useful for making timers dynamic. Consistent harassment of combat anoms should be able to push timers forward, while defensive actions should delay timers. Obviously, there'd be a little meta there, but nothing players can't manage. This gives every FC something to do between timers, and reduces or eliminates waiting games in pitched wars.
The constellation wide combat anomaly mechanics are pretty good though. Anything that splits up fleets is welcome.
The biggest problem of sov games since dominion is that all walls have been designed to be tall. It completely excluded small groups from doing anything besides pipe control. The key to diversifying risk is that you have to make the big walls be dependent upon the existence of more numerous smaller walls.
For example, to have a sov V system, every system in proximity to it should have to have sov IV, minimum. Likewise, you have to have an additional perimeter for each successive sov level for each system, with a sov III system being surrounded by sov II or higher systems. It's completely reasonable that capitol systems have incrementally higher walls, provided there must be a periphery, and it in turn must be vulnerable.
Sov 0 and sov I systems should be vulnerable to individuals with hacking ability (entosis modules). Progressively less small gangs should be able to destabilize systems up to sov III, while capital fleets should be able to destabilize systems up to sov IV. The fate of infrastructure in Sov V systems should depend upon the fate of the border.
The abilities of stations can and should be scaled back if they are subcap oriented content. To that end, all capital ships should be tied to POS economically, strategically and logistically. They should have to have POS for hull repairs, for getting many of the building materials, for processing and storing their fuel and for constructing all of their components. |
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:18:31 -
[19] - Quote
Lienzo wrote:Sov needs content for all sized groups. If anything, entosis modules should be restricted to SBUs. They should prep the field for bigger task forces to enter the fray....
Did you even read the thread's title? We're talking about capitals and supercapitals, not sov mechanics. Seriously do you people even understand what it means to stay on topic? |
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:20:20 -
[20] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:I never said incursions were unbalanced, I said doing them with carriers would be. Using a fleet of carriers to run them would be exponentially faster and safer. With carrier reps on field they aren't going to die. Not to mention cyno jammer constellation wide. I did say mobile depot did I not? *Checks own post* Yup, I did. Now let's address your bigotry directly. Let's fit for rating (The way that a smart person would, if he could do it with a carrier)
- Damage Control? Don't need it.
- Race specific hardener? Don't need that either.
- Capital Repper? Barely need that but throw it on just in case.
- DDA? Yea sure we can take 2 of those.
- Inertia Stabilizers for quick warp? Take 2 of those (Can now warp in 1 MWD cycle)
- Hyperspacial Accelertor? Oh we still have space for that wow.
- Mobile depot I can rep with a capital remote repair and 6 warp stabs in the cargo hold? Check
- Directional Scanner and Emergency Cyno Alt? Depends how smart you are I guess.
Do you have problems breathing when it rains? With your nose turned up in the air so far it must be difficult. 
Bigotry is a state of mind where a person obstinately, irrationally, unfairly or intolerantly dislikes other people, ideas, etc; sorry but I'm not the one hatin' all over your post.
And no matter how many WCS you have fitted, it won't help you from a dictor/hictor. But I do understand your points, and I'll give you the nod on the depot; but remember you still have align time if you are sitting on top of it. That 10 second align is still more than it will take for them to get a drop on you.
The fact remains that carrier/super ratting isnt 100% safe. I am trying to give more content for people to get big kills. You want risk versus reward? Great. Give me something to risk my carriers/super for.
I can do a Sanctum in 8 minutes (Nyx can do in about 7) in my Aeon; turning into +/-60m per tick. That's a decent income, but escalations are more. I have done the stage 3 Angel 10/10 in less than 3 minutes with the super.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:24:15 -
[21] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Allow supercaps to crash into outposts to destroy them, killing two birds with one stone.
I agree there should be some type of mass based bump damage mechanic.
Queue "Ramming Speeed!" meme
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:28:14 -
[22] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Capitals using acceleration gates: Sure, let me solo a 10/10 in 10 minutes. This is a good idea. Incursions? Let's make them pretty much risk free due to the massive reps a pair of triage carriers can bring to the field. Moar isk!!!! Oh, and if you can't warp a capital out in the minutes it takes that hunting party to probe down your escalation, warp to it, and navigate through to the third room, then you deserve to lose it. Bringing capitals into sites is a bad idea, because it makes them safer to run, and safer for the capital pilot.
Docking Supers: What good fights during freeport period? You mean the fight where the super pilots realize they're camped in, and simply log out for a week, then one ot two at a time log in, undock with hangars full of stuff, and jump away before they can get locked down? Or do you mean the one where the evacuating coalition drops a thousand pilots into the system in advance, blue balling any real blockade of the station while the supers and jump freighters jump out with all the stuff?
Death to all Supers.
Don't forget about the Incursion payout; if it's not finished, there is not payout. You have to grind the influence down before the mom spawns, and that damn thing is tough to begin with. There's a reason why its all big'n'shiny stuff in the highsec ones.
The whole point of this post is to bring a little action to those of us who are getting nerfed into the ground.
Yeah, yeah Death to Supers, I know. Blah blah blah.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
92
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:31:29 -
[23] - Quote
Master Sergeant MacRobert wrote:I've no objection to the addition if Cap/Super PvE content. Why not have null sec 10/10 escalate to 20/10 cap fights with a super accepting accel gates that requires a pass key for supers (no two or more supers at once spider tanking). One room with lots of LCO . Good AI that thinks about targets and packs a punch befitting of the spawn ship type. They should take a look at NPC faction and officer (commander) spawns and mix it up with 1 assault Frig, 1 HAC, 1 Bs & 1 cap spawn for the meta's 11-14. Change the loot drops for the same metas to be hull size specific ie:- Meta 11 frig mods, meta 12 cruiser/BC size etc. I don't mean this to lower the tanki-ness of the officer spawns but they could do with variety (rather than just tier 1-4 value). There is soo much that could be done with these metas. 2. Allow Supers to dock. No but perhaps yes. Allow them to dock to a station docking ring yes. Player owned stations only. Docking ring fitted allows 1 super then plus one per level of upgrade. Then work out a system to allow docking rings to be attacked (perhaps this is your new structure grind) that either disables the ring and the super from undock or perhaps even damages the docked super.
There remains a lot to see from what I would expect to be a serious balance pass at the top end ships. Let us hope CCP intend to do something.
This is what I was hoping for, a discussion on "give us something to do", not an endless debate on "death to supers"
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
|
Zeus Atlantis
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 21:57:09 -
[24] - Quote
Increase the warp speed of capitals to 3 Au/sec.
(why do large objects warp slower in space anyways?? These aren't underwater!!)
This would make it feasible to burn gates in a large fleet and have interesting fleet comps. Give supers variable fleet bonus like titans have and make it worth while to bring them with subcap fleets. This increases movement and therefore chances for unexpected fights etc. Makes them useful in a wider range of situations.
It is a major acheivment in the game to obtain and fly a super/titan and it should continue to be rewarded. New players look at supers/titans in wonder and some want to eventually fly one. If the best ships in the game are nerfed people will be discouraged from training toward them. |
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 22:12:11 -
[25] - Quote
Panther X wrote:Bigotry is a state of mind where a person obstinately, irrationally, unfairly or intolerantly dislikes other people, ideas, etc; sorry but I'm not the one hatin' all over your post.
In the oxford dictionary bigotry is intolerance towards people with different opinions to your own. I accept your opinion that you want more income and usefulness of your supercarrier/carrier. My argument is based on the fact that using them in incursions and sites would be too safe for the potential isk income. Allowing them to go through accel gates gives them too much safety for the added bonus of extra sites to run. My reasoning is that if you spam d-scan (like you should when running sites), and watch local (like you should), then it's virtually impossible to catch that supercarrier and extremely difficult to catch the carrier. Sites and incursions are not static locations so you cannot log off trap hictors and dictors. Hictors and Dictors also can't warp cloaked and nothing can get into your site in one warp, they have to land on gate ( and decloak if they're a cloaky) then go through the gate to get to you. If you're paying attention you'll be long gone before they even get close.
Long story short, if you know what you're doing you will have almost perfect safety for your supercarrier/carrier. A lot like skynetting (which is getting removed for that exact reason).
In the end it doesn't really matter what my opinion {or yours) is, CCP have given their reasons for why the didn't allow carriers into incursions or through accel gates in the first place and it will take a lot better reason than, "I want to make more money with my capital ships," to get them to change their mind about it. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
198
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 22:12:35 -
[26] - Quote
There's plenty to do with a supercapital, if you aren't afraid of losing it.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Iain Cariaba
1102
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 22:21:25 -
[27] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:There's plenty to do with a supercapital, if you aren't afraid of losing it.
This.
Also, parking them in a station so you can leave them there in total safety, then go do something else until you consider them useful again is not asking for something to do with it. Breaking the risk/reward balance of escalations and incursions is not the answer. If you think your super is useless, sell it to someone who will use it.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Reco Haywood
Synapse.
The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 23:47:13 -
[28] - Quote
I believe in getting rid of the assisting (skynet).
+1 for some ideas and not just saying death to supers. |
SootThis
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
2
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 00:30:20 -
[29] - Quote
LT Alter wrote:Panther X wrote:
I did put on my flame retardant underwear before posting this.
Well, the Urobouros site does require at minimum what 40, 60 pilots to do at minimum influence? You can't tell me that is risk free, especially in nullsec. When was the last time you did an incursion? They are if anything risk free, especially in null sec. There's a reason that the big incursion groups offer an SRP. You still have to grind the influence down just to get the Mom to spawn from what I remember, and until you do, you are suffering from resistance, repping and damage penalties.
...
I thought people wanted more risk for their rewards. If want to go do pve with my shiny, and you want to pop me? Come get me. I'll make you work for it.
I never said incursions were unbalanced, I said doing them with carriers would be. Using a fleet of carriers to run them would be exponentially faster and safer. With carrier reps on field they aren't going to die. Not to mention cyno jammer constellation wide. Panther X wrote:
Let's address that issue directly;
How many low slots does a thanny have? Six. Ok lets fit one for ratting; Damage Control? Check, Race specific hardener? Check. Capital repper? Check. DDA? I'll take 2. Plus an i-stab...that leaves me with....oh wait. I can't fit a warp core stab now. So my fast warp? Not so fast. Wait I'm switching targets...where did that ceptor come...oh im warp scrambled. Oh great ok, mobile depot, mobile depot, ok lets put those warp stabs...oh crap here's his buddies.
On paper yes that sounds great, but not so great in practice.
A ceptor can't tackle a super but a hictor can. You don't hunt carriers or supers with one ship, you hunt them in gangs. If you are looking for small pvp leave the carrier alone, find an easier target.
Your argument doesn't address what is happening now with carriers and supers in anomolies, so why bother? Carriers and supers get tackled all the time in anoms.
I did say mobile depot did I not? *Checks own post* Yup, I did. Now let's address your bigotry directly. Let's fit for rating (The way that a smart person would, if he could do it with a carrier)
- Damage Control? Don't need it.
- Race specific hardener? Don't need that either.
- Capital Repper? Barely need that but throw it on just in case.
- DDA? Yea sure we can take 2 of those.
- Inertia Stabilizers for quick warp? Take 2 of those (Can now warp in 1 MWD cycle)
- Hyperspacial Accelertor? Oh we still have space for that wow.
- Mobile depot I can rep with a capital remote repair and 6 warp stabs in the cargo hold? Check
- Directional Scanner and Emergency Cyno Alt? Depends how smart you are I guess.
Looks like the armchair quarterback, whom lost his carrier, https://zkillboard.com/kill/31721166/ did not follow his own advice of using a mobile depot..... or have any understanding of its mechanics.... and limitations.... but he did forget to put on his DCU, as he does not think its needed, nor did he bother with having bulkheads and spare bulkhead rigs in his cargo. The DCU not only gives a bonus to shields and armor, it conveys a 60% bonus to STRUCTURE across the board, allowing the pilot to tank effectively 2x the damage more. Races specific hardeners? seriously, you think you can tank with your resists so low that a curse could give you a very bad day.... and your Istabs.... work real well (sarcasm) against a pilot that is bumping you.... oh, and you think your just going to sit still for the 60 seconds it takes for your MD to online? and remain in range of it?.... guess you forgot about that idiot who scrammed you, and is bumping you..... while calling for reinforcements...... oh... you thought you could simply jump?.... aw.... to bad, not enough cap to make the jump cause your to busy repping the damage that is still incoming while your in a site with no resists mods, your cap is way below 71% and then there is the nice and quiet guy sneaking in a quiet recon, whom spots you, and lights a cyno right underneath your hull while he points you. There are a thousand ways to die in a cap/supercap.... and if you ever get caught with your pants down with no tank and you don't even have the proper mods in cargo/fleethanger, don;t be surprised at the massive trolling you are in for. |
LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2015.03.07 05:52:45 -
[30] - Quote
SootThis wrote:Looks like the armchair quarterback, whom lost his carrier, https://zkillboard.com/kill/31721166/ did not follow his own advice of using a mobile depot..... or have any understanding of its mechanics.... and limitations.... but he did forget to put on his DCU, as he does not think its needed, nor did he bother with having bulkheads and spare bulkhead rigs in his cargo. The DCU not only gives a bonus to shields and armor, it conveys a 60% bonus to STRUCTURE across the board, allowing the pilot to tank effectively 2x the damage more. Races specific hardeners? seriously, you think you can tank with your resists so low that a curse could give you a very bad day.... and your Istabs.... work real well (sarcasm) against a pilot that is bumping you.... oh, and you think your just going to sit still for the 60 seconds it takes for your MD to online? and remain in range of it?.... guess you forgot about that idiot who scrammed you, and is bumping you..... while calling for reinforcements...... oh... you thought you could simply jump?.... aw.... to bad, not enough cap to make the jump cause your to busy repping the damage that is still incoming while your in a site with no resists mods, your cap is way below 71% and then there is the nice and quiet guy sneaking in a quiet recon, whom spots you, and lights a cyno right underneath your hull while he points you. There are a thousand ways to die in a cap/supercap.... and if you ever get caught with your pants down with no tank and you don't even have the proper mods in cargo/fleethanger, don;t be surprised at the massive trolling you are in for.
Well let's look here, sorry it's going to take me some time to read this wall of text with loads of useless periods and looks like it was written by a schizophrenic during an episode.
Ok, well your argument falls apart in the first sentence. This loss occurred 2013-07-05 23:38, mobile depots weren't introduced into the game until November that year.
Even if there were mobile depots at the time of that loss, you would still be wrong. Because I didn't lose that carrier while ratting, I lost it while moving. A friend lit a cyno on station, apparently he didn't do a very good job because I bounced off the station and was caught by the local residents snuff box.
Now that we've put that loss back in context let's put the rest of your block paragraph into the correct context.
"but he did forget to put on his DCU, as he does not think its needed," Well first off, let's put this into context. This entire thread is about letting carriers use acceleration gates. If I could go through acceleration gates with my carrier and I wanted to run a 10/10 DED complex with my carrier. Let us take The Maze for example. I can kill everything in each room before it gets through my non-tanked shields. Maybe by the 4th room they scratch my armor which is easily repaired by a single capital repair even if I had no other tank mod fit what-so-ever. I don't know if that sounds too easy to you, but for the possibility of making a couple billion, that sounds way to easy.
The gate's also protect me, the enemy has to go through each one to get to me. I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Quote:and your Istabs.... work real well (sarcasm) against a pilot that is bumping you.... oh, and you think your just going to sit still for the 60 seconds it takes for your MD to online? and remain in range of it?.... guess you forgot about that idiot who scrammed you, and is bumping you..... while calling for reinforcements...... oh... you thought you could simply jump?.... aw.... to bad, not enough cap to make the jump cause your to busy repping the damage that is still incoming while your in a site with no resists mods, your cap is way below 71% and then there is the nice and quiet guy sneaking in a quiet recon, whom spots you, and lights a cyno right underneath your hull while he points you
My istabs let me warp before the enemy can get into my room of the site. Even an interceptor, but let's say hypothetically I messed up and a single interceptor caught me. (More than a 1 or 2 neutrals in local I'd be leaving the sight anyway, so yes only 1 interceptor) His backup has to warp to me, burn through gates, and then get on top of me. That interceptor alone has 0 chance of bumping me off a mobile depot. That's if I haven't already sent 13 warrior 2s or ec-300s chasing him down, forced him off and warped myself out. I have more than enough time to launch my mobile depot and refit. (It's in a DED site, he can't light a cyno for back up)
Anyway, you would be entirely right on most counts in the right context. However, you didn't take the time to look at the right context and now you look the fool you tried to make out of me. Right now, yes I can be caught, yes I can get killed in my carrier, but if CCP makes the changes the OP is suggesting then every point I just made about my safety with my carrier, becomes true.
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Terraniel Aurelius
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
24
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 02:05:27 -
[31] - Quote
LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in. |
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 02:25:25 -
[32] - Quote
No worries, CCP has super's covered.
They are turning them into barely, still as vulnerable, no more dps, mobile on-grid boosters.
The only good coming out is when CCP decides to uber nerf something else (like frigate hulls, pve isk loot, mining, etc), we can then go laugh at those people that aren't happy with it, which are now screaming 'death to supers' because their T3 cruiser got plastered all over New Eden when they ganked some miner that had reinforcement in the system. |
Makc Petrovic
From Our Cold Dead Hands
The Kadeshi
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 03:00:02 -
[33] - Quote
Why do we have to keep taking notes from Faction warfare and such? Why not some WHs? why can we not have capital escalations put into null somehow? ones the require supers or something? You are nerfing super ratting why not replace it with some new mechanic to make up for it. Maybe rats that bubble inside of it to create risk.
We all complain about risk versus reward but there is a huge risk to supers just being unable to dock or having whole alliance make their task to hunt them every day all day. And not many people that have not had a super or tit will be able to associate the risk with it other than maybe high class Whers.
They will always be pvp assets just due tot he massive tanks and reps they can give. Having them be able to still provide support for any fleet any day.
Fighter assist mechanics I am on the fence about. While I love being able to skynet people and I think it should be a viable tactic. It is the advantage you should get when people come into you home system. And once again there is risk in the fact that they can get dded if they are ratting fit with about 3 titans. While not huge risk still risk. I also see where engaging a cepter fleet with 15 fighters can be incredibly annoying and over powered. Just like how a cepter fleet loaded with the new sov lasers could be incredibly over powered. In general interceptors are meant to intercept stuff and hold them down for brief periods of time. They should not be used to start sov wars. Its just ******** logic. Instead really anything battle cruiser and up should be able to instigate sov captures because that is what those ship are meant to do.
But that is a slightly different topic. |
LT Alter
Dodixie Undock Is Camped
139
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 07:36:16 -
[34] - Quote
Terraniel Aurelius wrote:LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in.
This comment... 
You sir, make a point that makes me question how I have not been caught by a recon while running level 5s yet.
Edit: "Uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in," Well only combat recons don't show on d-scan (They can't cloak) and you can't light cynos in sites or missions so... the more you know. You still make great point about the d-scan thing >.> |
Iain Cariaba
1115
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 19:09:32 -
[35] - Quote
Terraniel Aurelius wrote:LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in.
So the recon "uncloaks" and lights a cyno, not a big deal. Stationary target, say hello to a dozen heavy drones while your bridging fleet has to burn through all the acceleration gates to get to us. Want to place any bets on whether your recon dies before your friends can burn in? Your buddies get to watch the carrier moonwalk out of the site as they land on grid.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
74
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 21:04:46 -
[36] - Quote
Reproces them into cap construction componenets and keep till the better time.
For now there would be more than enough tears and bitching and firesales so why to bother. |
LT Alter
Dodixie Undock Is Camped
140
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 22:06:37 -
[37] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Terraniel Aurelius wrote:LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in. So the recon "uncloaks" and lights a cyno, not a big deal. Stationary target, say hello to a dozen heavy drones while your bridging fleet has to burn through all the acceleration gates to get to us. Want to place any bets on whether your recon dies before your friends can burn in? Your buddies get to watch the carrier moonwalk out of the site as they land on grid.
Well, the recon can't light a cyno in your site anyway so... |
Tykonderoga
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
31
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 22:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dear CCP:
Thanks for making the "end game" in this game worthless. Something that takes years and years to train for and tens of billions of isk to obtain and fit is going to be made into a "niche" ship that is rarely taken out and has no offensive means to defend itself.
And don't tell me a 14x skill and tens of billions of isk is not end game, because it is. Stop seeing these ships as the problem, when it is YOUR LACK OF IMAGINATION THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I don't play the game to have an Ishtar as my ultimate goal; I play the game to have the sickest and most powerful ship to be in with the most to lose if I die. And if I die, I'll will lose tens of billions of isk in the hull alone and billions in implants.
SAVE THE SUPER AND BUFF THE TITAN. KEEP EVE EPIC. DON'T HAVE CRUISER HULLS BE THE END GAME. DOWN WITH MAKING EVE CAPTURE THE FLAG. SIC SEMPER TYRANIS = CCP FOZZIE. |
LT Alter
Dodixie Undock Is Camped
140
|
Posted - 2015.03.08 22:29:56 -
[39] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:Dear CCP:
Thanks for making the "end game" in this game worthless. Something that takes years and years to train for and tens of billions of isk to obtain and fit is going to be made into a "niche" ship that is rarely taken out and has no offensive means to defend itself.
And don't tell me a 14x skill and tens of billions of isk is not end game, because it is. Stop seeing these ships as the problem, when it is YOUR LACK OF IMAGINATION THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I don't play the game to have an Ishtar as my ultimate goal; I play the game to have the sickest and most powerful ship to be in with the most to lose if I die. And if I die, I'll will lose tens of billions of isk in the hull alone and billions in implants.
SAVE THE SUPER AND BUFF THE TITAN. KEEP EVE EPIC. DON'T HAVE CRUISER HULLS BE THE END GAME. DOWN WITH MAKING EVE CAPTURE THE FLAG. SIC SEMPER TYRANIS = CCP FOZZIE.
I agree with you, in the sense that they should not do what they are suggestion to supers/titans. However I disagree with you about it being the end game. While some people may consider it so, it is not for everyone. But we're getting off-topic for this thread so I digress.
P.S. CCP have been known to listen to reason and ignore ranting, if you truly want to change their mind I suggest talking about it without caps lock and without a temper. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
1083
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 15:08:29 -
[40] - Quote
Counter proposal:
- CCP gives those pilots all the SP back to spend as they like.
- A range of ships to the value of the Titans and Supers they hold now, which they can redeem in any station.
- Titans and Supers are deleted.
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
94
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 15:56:29 -
[41] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Counter proposal:
- CCP gives those pilots all the SP back to spend as they like.
- A range of ships to the value of the Titans and Supers they hold now, which they can redeem in any station.
- Titans and Supers are deleted.
I wouldnt mind having all those millions of sp and billions of iskies back, but the chance that something like that will ever happen is less than zero.
A flight of 97826 rifters (in accordance to what I have spent on my super) would be unlimited fun.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
DARKNESS.
76
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 18:58:24 -
[42] - Quote
Terraniel Aurelius wrote:LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in.
A recon can't get in, scan the site down, warp to you, get through the gate and slowboat cloaked to you before you can get in warp. Period. If you get caught by a recon you deserve to get caught.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.-á He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
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Panther X
High Flyers
The Kadeshi
94
|
Posted - 2015.03.09 19:02:51 -
[43] - Quote
Taram Caldar wrote:Terraniel Aurelius wrote:LT Alter wrote: I'll see them coming from d-scan before they get into the first room. Even if it's an interceptor.
Unless it's a recon, of course. Then you have no warning until it uncloaks next to you and bridges a fleet in. A recon can't get in, scan the site down, warp to you, get through the gate and slowboat cloaked to you before you can get in warp. Period. If you get caught by a recon you deserve to get caught.
That's usually what happens though. People don't watch their d-scans, local or listen to intel channels. Then they get on alliance channel and whine about "HELP IM TACKLED IN xxx system"
Hey if I get tackled in a carrier in an escalation I expect to die in silence.
My super smells of rich Corinthian Leather
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