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Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.03.08 17:20:18 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm kind of at a crossroad here. I'm currently running a Gila for high sec exploration, but I want to try some more lowsec/wormhole stuff. I'm 18 days away from flying a Tengu, but only 20 hours away from the Stratios. Which one is the better ship for my purpose? |
Orlacc
833
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Posted - 2015.03.08 18:51:30 -
[2] - Quote
Tengu. But if you are rich and in a hurry, use a Strat to get the lay of the land as you SP for Tengu.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1066
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Posted - 2015.03.08 19:20:07 -
[3] - Quote
T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit. |
Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.03.08 21:10:44 -
[4] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit.
Tengu does 750+ dps and tanks 1000+ dps...stratios is nowhere near it. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1069
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Posted - 2015.03.08 21:54:56 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit. Tengu does 750+ dps and tanks 1000+ dps...stratios is nowhere near it.
You know how arbitrary and irrelevant your statement is without fittings, situation and any knowledge of damage application? |
Gallinari
Diablo Industries
21
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:22:20 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit. Tengu does 750+ dps and tanks 1000+ dps...stratios is nowhere near it.
Its not as simple as this is better than this and thats that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_VlEbiuvUE |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
942
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Posted - 2015.03.08 22:28:32 -
[7] - Quote
For basically free roaming null sec, Nullifier Tengu is about the best option. |
infra52x
University of Caille Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2015.03.09 07:18:35 -
[8] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit.
Op mentions wormhole exploration as well.... Tengu can fit nullified which comes in pretty handy I might add. Also the Emergent Locus Analyzer subsystem gives it a +10 Virus Strength to Relic and Data Analyzers. |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 07:33:24 -
[9] - Quote
The opinions really are split in half here :) |
Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.03.09 08:28:57 -
[10] - Quote
Gallinari wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:T2 fit stratios is more effective and about the same price.
Obviously they are opposite ends of the skill spectrum so you really have to choose between the two.
Advantages of Tengu:
1. Missiles are great for clearing out most rats. You will struggle with frigates. 2. Better resistance profile, can tank a bit better than a strat
Advantages of stratios:
1. Drones are a very powerful damage platform, able to adapt to almost any situation 2. Covert cloak without need to refit 3. Bonus to hacking to get cans much easier 4. More cargo space 5. Scanning bonus without need to refit. Tengu does 750+ dps and tanks 1000+ dps...stratios is nowhere near it. Its not as simple as this is better than this and thats that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_VlEbiuvUE
I am talking about WH exploration and running WH combat anomalies or sites (whatever you call them). In C3 you need to perma tank around 900 dps. Stratios cannot tank this. Tengu can. With hams it does good damage. PvP is a different story, as shown on the video. |
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Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.03.09 22:43:52 -
[11] - Quote
So basically, Tengu if I have enough skills to basically ace it, and if I'm doing nullsec, and stratios for everything else? |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
249
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Posted - 2015.03.10 02:07:34 -
[12] - Quote
Either will do the job.
Other factors to consider: The tengu has a skill point loss if you lose the ship, and it's more at risk of a nerf than the Stratios. Where do you have the most skill points in weapon systems --- Missiles vs. Drones and Lasers? The Tengu has to make a choice on which to train & fit between HML for range, or HAM for more DPS. Stratios can load a single fit for both long & closer range DPS.
To me the big decisions are how much do you want the nullification, and do you need more total DPS than 4 sentries can provide. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9030
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Posted - 2015.03.10 02:29:53 -
[13] - Quote
the stratios has fairly generous slots , cargo , fitting and a big drone capabilities if you have the skills to take advantage of it.
You can do a lot with a stratios, great PvP platform as well , you can have scram, web , prop mod, cap booster and have a slot left for something caerbear related. can get fairly creative with the highs also, I like neuts personaly but iv seen zappidy fit blasters and have some success ,tthough I'm thinking purely for PvP so ...
You do need the drone skills for it ,the bulk of its dps is there so if you don't have t2 medium drones at least do not take one out of highsec.
T3 need a bit of isk hung off them to get the kind of performance people complain about and losing one of those could easily cripple your finances for a while, make no mistake ,you could say the same of the stratios also but to a lesser degree.
In short, they are both good for it, but the choice I think should be dictated by which you can lose without punching your monitor and imo, that means stratios .
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Brylan Grey
Scope Works Overload Everything
71
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Posted - 2015.03.10 05:37:11 -
[14] - Quote
As a low sec pilot.. Not high or null...
I say tengu.
It will offer the most versatility.
Strat is cool and all but it makes you a huge target and doesn't ha e versatility.
Both will do. They really will. Find what is cheaper for you and your skills offer assistance to. |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.03.10 07:59:41 -
[15] - Quote
Considering I don't have the laser skills, I'd say I need about the same amount of time to be skilled at either. Tough decisions, indeed. The Stratios do look a bit cheaper overall though, and I'm probably going to train for lasers anyway. Heck, I might even do some pvp and looking at JonnyPew's video, the stratios could be fun :) |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.03.10 09:15:02 -
[16] - Quote
By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped? |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1072
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 14:03:28 -
[17] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:I am talking about WH exploration and running WH combat anomalies or sites (whatever you call them). In C3 you need to perma tank around 900 dps. Stratios cannot tank this. Tengu can. With hams it does good damage. PvP is a different story, as shown on the video.
The only sites that you have to tank more than 600 DPS in are certain relic/data sites.
Also, show me a fit that can apply 750 DPS while tanking 1k in a tengu. |
Agent Known
Night Theifs DamnedNation
40
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Posted - 2015.03.10 14:04:19 -
[18] - Quote
Janey T'gahl wrote:By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?
edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios?
Railguns are bad, m'kay?
Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills:
[Stratios, sneaky sneaky] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Warp Disruptor II Relic Analyzer I PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Gecko x1 Hammerhead II x4
I like the Gecko for the extra DPS. |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.03.10 22:20:35 -
[19] - Quote
Agent Known wrote:Janey T'gahl wrote:By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?
edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios? Railguns are bad, m'kay? Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills: [Stratios, sneaky sneaky] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Warp Disruptor II Relic Analyzer I PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Gecko x1 Hammerhead II x4 I like the Gecko for the extra DPS.
Thank you. But how viable would that fit be in pve?
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Orlacc
836
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Posted - 2015.03.11 01:29:29 -
[20] - Quote
Not much. It would work but there are better ways. Excellent for exploration though.
A good fit for null/WH exploration or PvP will not be a good PVE fit and visa versa. All ships are like that. Carry a mobile depot for quick re-fit.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Agent Known
Night Theifs
44
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Posted - 2015.03.11 13:52:19 -
[21] - Quote
Janey T'gahl wrote:Agent Known wrote:Janey T'gahl wrote:By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?
edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios? Railguns are bad, m'kay? Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills: [Stratios, sneaky sneaky] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Warp Disruptor II Relic Analyzer I PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Gecko x1 Hammerhead II x4 I like the Gecko for the extra DPS. Thank you. But how viable would that fit be in pve?
The drones will make quick work of most rats in lowsec. You really need laser skills to make use of turrets. Please don't put rails on it. The warp disruptor is excellent for surprising the would-be ganker as they're often not expecting you to fight back. |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.03.13 18:27:17 -
[22] - Quote
Agent Known wrote:Janey T'gahl wrote:Agent Known wrote:Janey T'gahl wrote:By the way, can anyone recommend a great stratios fit that would mainly be for lowsec exploration, but could also defend itself if jumped?
edit: I can't fit lasers yet, but I have pretty decent railgun skills. Would that be viable on a stratios? Railguns are bad, m'kay? Fit neuts to escape from tacklers (or to kill them). Your choice if you want to have an active or buffer fit depending on your needs/skills: [Stratios, sneaky sneaky] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Warp Disruptor II Relic Analyzer I PL-0 Scoped Cargo Scanner Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Gecko x1 Hammerhead II x4 I like the Gecko for the extra DPS. Thank you. But how viable would that fit be in pve? The drones will make quick work of most rats in lowsec. You really need laser skills to make use of turrets. Please don't put rails on it. The warp disruptor is excellent for surprising the would-be ganker as they're often not expecting you to fight back.
Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all? |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
203
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Posted - 2015.03.13 18:55:52 -
[23] - Quote
Janey T'gahl wrote:Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all?
For C3 sites, this fitting will not work, because it will be neutered, and then you cannot tank. Similarly with lasers, they're not preferred because of cap issues.
In Null this would be no problem, but the ship is very overtanked for most null sites that I recall.
C3 sites can be easily run with a tengu. You just need an LSB with an SBA and cap rigs. add an invul or two and an EM ward and you're able to run anything in a C3 with ease. Bring a TP and precision heavy missiles to increase damage application to frigs, OR fit HAM's and an AB for greatly increased DPS, but that requires more positioning. I don't remember how much webbing there is in a C3 but I'm pretty sure it's enough to make HAM fits annoying. I prefer HML for this reason.
I think that a passive shield stratios can get up around 800 DPS tank with all T2 SPR's in the lows and T2 purger rigs. Fit autocannons in the highs and one EM ward in the mids with large extenders. This could probably run at least some C3 sites, and almost any null anom. This has the bonus of being neut-proof, and not requiring much SP nor losing you any if you get lazy/jumped.
The Gila makes an excellent C3 passive shield site runner as well, better than the stratios, but no cloak of course.
My vote is this: If you're running within a jump or two of home, a tengu is great for a C3. If you're truly out exploring solo, I recommend a stratios. It's a versatile boat, plus it's cheaper and no SP loss.
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:02:38 -
[24] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Janey T'gahl wrote:Yeah, I hear you :) I've never been much into pvp though, but should I really rely only on drones in this case? No lasers at all? For C3 sites, this fitting will not work, because it will be neutered, and then you cannot tank. Similarly with lasers, they're not preferred because of cap issues. In Null this would be no problem, but the ship is very overtanked for most null sites that I recall. C3 sites can be easily run with a tengu. You just need an LSB with an SBA and cap rigs. add an invul or two and an EM ward and you're able to run anything in a C3 with ease. Bring a TP and precision heavy missiles to increase damage application to frigs, OR fit HAM's and an AB for greatly increased DPS, but that requires more positioning. I don't remember how much webbing there is in a C3 but I'm pretty sure it's enough to make HAM fits annoying. I prefer HML for this reason. I think that a passive shield stratios can get up around 800 DPS tank with all T2 SPR's in the lows and T2 purger rigs. Fit autocannons in the highs and one EM ward in the mids with large extenders. This could probably run at least some C3 sites, and almost any null anom. This has the bonus of being neut-proof, and not requiring much SP nor losing you any if you get lazy/jumped. The Gila makes an excellent C3 passive shield site runner as well, better than the stratios, but no cloak of course. My vote is this: If you're running within a jump or two of home, a tengu is great for a C3. If you're truly out exploring solo, I recommend a stratios. It's a versatile boat, plus it's cheaper and no SP loss.
tnank you :) Been away for a couple of years, so please refresh my mind. What are SPR's ? |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
203
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:16:30 -
[25] - Quote
Shield Power Relays
Yeah, well, it's just like my-áopinion, man.
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Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:46:18 -
[26] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Shield Power Relays
So the proposed with, but with your changes, would that be a good idea for low/null sec? And if I want to go pure pvp, would the first one be better? Sorry for all the questions :) |
Nycha
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2015.03.13 19:59:01 -
[27] - Quote
Dont think a strat can get a passive 800 dps tank. Maybe with implants or outer effects, but not without. |
Agent Known
Night Theifs
44
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:08:24 -
[28] - Quote
Nycha wrote:Dont think a strat can get a passive 800 dps tank. Maybe with implants or outer effects, but not without.
With T2 purgers, relays, and 3 large extenders, I could only get 589 DPS tank with implants...and only 30k EHP. Passive stratios definitely won't work. This is forgoing the relic scanner as well.
As with any ship, there will be difficulty with fitting for both PvP and PvE because they're two totally different things. Neuting the enemy in PvP is highly effective with the Stratios, but neuting sleepers will ruin your day in an active tanked fit. It doesn't have the bonuses to make a passive tank worthwhile like the Tengu/Drake does.
For exploration - especially C3s, use a Tengu. Ganks with a Stratios are fun, but they won't be able to handle the combat sites very well if neuting is present. |
Janey T'gahl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.03.13 20:08:24 -
[29] - Quote
I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?
Something like this one I found on reddit?
"[Stratios, WH Hunter]
Drone Damage Amplifier II Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Warp Scrambler II Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script Stasis Webifier II Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Core Probe Launcher II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Gecko x2" |
Agent Known
Night Theifs
44
|
Posted - 2015.03.13 20:10:23 -
[30] - Quote
Janey T'gahl wrote:I've kind of changed focus a bit reading about the Stratios :) I'd much rather have a wormhole pvp fit with the ability to run c1+c2 than the other way around. How would such a fit look like?
Something like this one I found on reddit?
"[Stratios, WH Hunter]
Drone Damage Amplifier II Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Warp Scrambler II Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script Stasis Webifier II Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Core Probe Launcher II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Gecko x2" It'll be really really slow (tops out at 510 m/s with all V skills), but effective ...especially in groups. |
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