Everyone currently making the effort required to build pirate ships would be very angry. Then again, I'm sure everyone else would like cheaper pirate ships. But that in turn would probably murder the already hurting T2 ship market.

didnt actually think about the market and industry around it tbh

So done a search but couldnt really find much info on this, is there a reason why pirate factions have not been added to faction warfare?

Are you referring to pirate vs pirate, or pirate vs empire? I think the latter makes far more sense.

Blood Raiders could invade Aridia. Allying with them would make you KOS to Amarr.
Serpentis could invade Verge Vendor or Placid. Allying with them would make you KOS to Gallente.
Guristas could invade Lonetrek. Allying with them would make you KOS to Caldari.
Angel Cartel could invade Derelik. Allying with them would make you KOS to Minmatar.

Set up certain constellations as FW zones just like existing ones in empire, and keep all other mechanics the same. EDIT: In light of the industry/market posts above, it may be prudent to reduce the number of LPs earned in these zones.

I specifically left out Sansha's Nation as they're busy with Excursions and all. I also left out the Thukker tribe because they're more nomadic than piratical, plus it maintains the balance of one pirate FW zone per empire faction.

Thoughts?

One issue is on average most caldari would swap to pirate factions for the better rewards (assumed) like snakes etc.

FTFY

Are you referring to pirate vs pirate, or pirate vs empire? I think the latter makes far more sense.

Blood Raiders could invade Aridia. Allying with them would make you KOS to Amarr.
Serpentis could invade Verge Vendor or Placid. Allying with them would make you KOS to Gallente.
Guristas could invade Lonetrek. Allying with them would make you KOS to Caldari.
Angel Cartel could invade Derelik. Allying with them would make you KOS to Minmatar.

Set up certain constellations as FW zones just like existing ones in empire, and keep all other mechanics the same. EDIT: In light of the industry/market posts above, it may be prudent to reduce the number of LPs earned in these zones.

I specifically left out Sansha's Nation as they're busy with Excursions and all. I also left out the Thukker tribe because they're more nomadic than piratical, plus it maintains the balance of one pirate FW zone per empire faction.

Thoughts?

You would be there in a second if you could get pirate warp core stabilizers.

So bitter.

Nah - Just honest.

You would be there in a second if you could get pirate warp core stabilizers.

I need a new cup of coffee and most likely a new keyboard and monitor now you tard.

Looks like a pirate faction damage control :)

I am impressed that you even know about damage controls because would have to remove a warp stab to even try one.

Calm down fella, sorry your unopposed AU TZ wasnt enough to hold rakapas. No need to get hysterical.

Im sure one day you will achieve a meaningful goal in this computer game.

We had steady pew pew in Au TZ in Rakapas and knocked the contested level down each night.

The problem was when we went to sleep.


As for your last comment:
If anyone really believes their accomplishments in game are meaningful - They need to get a life.

It the out of game stuff that is meaningful.

I have nothing positive in my life - so I'll be mad as always and rant

Such bitterness. Most computer games adhere to the realities of success and failure. just because you failed in a computer game doesnt detract from your real world value. Try to see the bright side, you massively failed at eve, but im sure you are awesome at real life (the 2 hours of the day you arnt working, sleeping or playing eve).

I will project my insecurities on the forum as always.

Psychological project much Crosi ?? You do know that internet spaceships is NOT REALLY serious stuff right?

Shhh - Don't tell him. This is too much fun.

WHOA

A Gallente Rakapas circlejerk thread, AND it's hijacking another thread!!!

So unexpected.

Next up: Gallente tinfoil-hat wizards elaborating how this was maybe, just maybe, all part of the plan. From 6 years ago.

Standings should play more if a role in docking rights. i.e. - A player shoots at an Amarr militia member. Their standing to 24th crusade goes down. After a certain point they lose docking rights in systems owned by 24th Crusade. It would enhance low sec politics by adding stakes to third party support.

I disagree, docking rights are there to promote fights, not prevent them.

I have two issues with pirate factions joining.

1) Pirate faction ships are significantly better than the faction ships of the empires. This is offset by their relative rarity due to the grind required for the LP (although someone has gotten rich off all the Worms I see in low sec!). If the LP becomes easier to obtain (orbiting buttons) then there would need to be a rebalance as the pirate faction stuff plummets in price and everyone has them. It would probably kill off the markets for empire faction ships.

2) the same problems that plague the current FW scene would still exist. The majority of existing militia pilots are LP farmers playing the game simply to make LP and convert into ISK. The pilots who are actually fighting in their militias are trying to engage in sovereignty warfare (and gain LP for their efforts) despite the farmer hordes. If Pirates were introduced this situation would be duplicated. The ability to farm should be nerfed before expanding the flawed system elsewhere.

For example there is at least 1 rediculous system in our warzone where a Gallente group o-Plexes the system then the neighbouring Amarr group that no one ever see's in a fight d-Plex it down again taking turns and never fighting. It is very likely that these 2 corps are controlled by the same players or are at least colluding. All this does is makes them richer and the 'real' militias poorer for the increased completion for our LP redeemed goodies.

I would nerf farming in the following ways...

Dramatically reduce the LP rewards for D-Plexing regardless of Tier. Low risk = low reward

Dramatically boost the LP rewards for killing an I-HUB - it is the most risky activity in FW and requires a fleet so a large payout is needed to make sure each fleet member gets an adequate reward.

LP awards for kills against enemy militia relative to the value of the kill mail. This would reward PVP more and make it very costly for farmers to try and 'game' this system as it should cost them more money to fit the enemy ship and get it blown up then you are rewarded in LP.

No warp stabs permitted in Plexes, just like the cloak restriction, if you don't like a fight all you should need is D-scan and an align out!

We would see what effects that had before going further.

Maybe. Sprinkle the war zones with some FW-free systems off the beaten path? Gives 'shoot everyone' pirates someplace to live while reserving choice systems (Amamake) for peeps willing to risk something and pick a side. I'm just thinking more politics, proxy wars, depth to the game, etc...

You would be there in a second if you could get pirate warp core stabilizers.

Standings should play more if a role in docking rights. i.e. - A player shoots at an Amarr militia member. Their standing to 24th crusade goes down. After a certain point they lose docking rights in systems owned by 24th Crusade. It would enhance low sec politics by adding stakes to third party support.

I always wondered why a guy with -10 to Quafe was able to dock in their stations. That, and why shooting pirate rats in pirate systems lead to CONCORD rewards. Shouldn't you shout CONCORD or Empire faction rats in pirate space and receive isk from pirate factions?

I have two issues with pirate factions joining.

1) Pirate faction ships are significantly better than the faction ships of the empires. This is offset by their relative rarity due to the grind required for the LP (although someone has gotten rich off all the Worms I see in low sec!). If the LP becomes easier to obtain (orbiting buttons) then there would need to be a rebalance as the pirate faction stuff plummets in price and everyone has them. It would probably kill off the markets for empire faction ships.

2) the same problems that plague the current FW scene would still exist. The majority of existing militia pilots are LP farmers playing the game simply to make LP and convert into ISK. The pilots who are actually fighting in their militias are trying to engage in sovereignty warfare (and gain LP for their efforts) despite the farmer hordes. If Pirates were introduced this situation would be duplicated. The ability to farm should be nerfed before expanding the flawed system elsewhere.

For example there is at least 1 rediculous system in our warzone where a Gallente group o-Plexes the system then the neighbouring Amarr group that no one ever see's in a fight d-Plex it down again taking turns and never fighting. It is very likely that these 2 corps are controlled by the same players or are at least colluding. All this does is makes them richer and the 'real' militias poorer for the increased completion for our LP redeemed goodies.

I would nerf farming in the following ways...

Dramatically reduce the LP rewards for D-Plexing regardless of Tier. Low risk = low reward

Dramatically boost the LP rewards for killing an I-HUB - it is the most risky activity in FW and requires a fleet so a large payout is needed to make sure each fleet member gets an adequate reward.

LP awards for kills against enemy militia relative to the value of the kill mail. This would reward PVP more and make it very costly for farmers to try and 'game' this system as it should cost them more money to fit the enemy ship and get it blown up then you are rewarded in LP.

No warp stabs permitted in Plexes, just like the cloak restriction, if you don't like a fight all you should need is D-scan and an align out!

We would see what effects that had before going further.

One issue is on average most players would swap to pirate factions for the better rewards (assumed) like snakes etc.

I agree with you. The current FW system needs polishing. LP payouts for killing someone are far too low. Plexing/capturing a system needs changing. Its so boring.

Edit: and stabs warp core stabs need banning in plexes too!

CCP did say a few years ago at fanfest that the back end was already in place to put pirate factions into FW.

As for those saying it would cause too much trouble to the pirate ship/implant market, that is easily solved. Don't give them a FW store or have very limited items in it. RP: they are not one of the big empires, therefore they don't have the industrial infrastructure (at least in empire space) to do the same as NPC empire militias.

but would this then be different lp to the mission lp? if your restricting you would need to have a seperate lp currecy for missions and fw, tbh it wouldnt sound fair because why should a carebear earn more for less risk than a fw'er?

Current FW LP is only used in the NPC Militia corp LP store. Which you can also get by running missions for the NPC corp. So I don't get what you're picking at.

If you are in a pirate faction, you are a pirate. Make your ISK from your loot, not from orbiting a button in space and shooting NPCs. I.e. don't have a LP store for pirate factions would be my favourite idea.

Unfortunately that would probably mean the extinction of Pirate Faction Ships, as that is where they originate from by and large.

Pirate Faction ships originate from something that currently DOES NOT EXIST in the game? - a pirate NPC FW LP store.

The whole point of NOT having a pirate NPC FW LP store would be that bringing the pirate factions into FW would not change anything in the current way care bears bring pirate faction ships, mods, implants to market.

Ya, very few people are going to do FW just for the lolRP of fighting for the internet space honor of their favorite internet space faction. Honor aside, with no financial gain to be had from LP, signing up for a Militia would essentially be punishing yourself by incurring all of the downsides of FW without the upsides.

It would still be a free wardec, but "Pirates" don't care about that anyway right?

If implemented, Pirate FW should be something that's done as a major feature release. It would give many current players who are attracted to the different Pirate Factions already a cool new avenue of gameplay to explore, but the main advantage for CCP would be launching it as a draw for new players. Newbies need to be able to adorably derp failfit frigates all day every day until they learn to play, and to do that they need income to pay for all those frigate losses. Pirate FW would definitely need its own LP store, and it would need to be on par with Navy FW from a profit standpoint.

Why must bringing Pirate Militias into FW be about making ISK? CCP has said it needs more ISK sinks every year. Pirate Militias (with no FW LP store) would act as one.

And who cares about newbies being able to earn ISK to be in FW, that is what the empire militias are already for, so why do it again?

From CCP's RP spin they can make a video about disheartened capsuleers joining forces with the pirate factions to fight the empires.
You know any disheartened capsuleers? I sure do. They are the ones with already skilled accounts that are not subbed to Eve anymore. Give them a reason to come back that isn't shooting just NPCs all day making ISK they don't need or being an F1 0.0 monkey that prays they are not the one who is going to be the next primary and alpha'd by 100's of other F1 0.0 monkeys.

because people need to make isk to cover ships they lose pvping otherwise it just pointless being involved for anything else other than rp

Alts or PLEX?

...and a balance standpoint, as I've mentioned. Can you imagine everyone joining Sansha's faction to get Revenant Carrier BPC's, or who would want a Tempest Fleet Issue doctrine when you can have an Ashimmu Doctrine etc etc? It would run the risk of hurting the Empire Militias ability to support themselves.

Revenant BPCs only drop from Incursion boss fights, it isn't currently a Pirate LP item. Basically what you're doing is pointing out things that would only happen in CCP changed existing game mechanics to be intentionally game breaking. What doesn't fall into that category falls into "Already in the game, already not a problem." Ashimmu doctrine? Already totally doable, just expensive.

As I understood the problem that was brought up earlier, there is an established "Carebear" economy providing Pirate Faction items from Mission LP. FW LP stores would disrupt this, perhaps in a similar way to how Navy Faction ships and items being available on FW LP stores did when they were introduced. So far I haven't really seen a convincing case that such an outcome is actually bad.

So if you think that there would be no uptake to pirate militias that have no FW store and only thing they can gain is bragging rights over empire militias by capturing systems from them, well you don't know much about eve players.

Dramatically boost the LP rewards for killing an I-HUB - it is the most risky activity in FW and requires a fleet so a large payout is needed to make sure each fleet member gets an adequate reward.

No warp stabs permitted in Plexes, just like the cloak restriction, if you don't like a fight all you should need is D-scan and an align out!

I think having all the factions fight against each other is a step in the right direction. I don't really see the need/benefit from adding Pirate Factions to existing FW space, unless you want to farm pirate LP.

Nor do I think they should expand FW into non-FW lowsec, as non-FW lowsec has its own flavor that many people enjoy.

It would be a decent option for NPC Null Sec. That area of the game has been neglected for much longer than any other part.

We already have 4 FW factions that are far from balanced.

Why would we want more?

Rewards? Get rich in FW, buy pirate stuff. Farmers would ruin prices anyway

PVP? It's already there.

Coolness? You wanna be a filthy pirate? You can already go an be a filthy pirate. With security loss and all the other cool things that come with being a filthy pirate.

Any other reasons?

The matter of Pirate FW came up this fanfest in the lowsec roundtable (as it does every year), and the Devs are very open to it though I don't know what kind of timeframe we would be looking at in terms of implementation.

They're also considering strongly to reset the individual factions so there is no alliance between Amarr/Caldari and Gallente/Minmatar.

We already have 4 FW factions that are far from balanced.

Why would we want more?

Rewards? Get rich in FW, buy pirate stuff. Farmers would ruin prices anyway

PVP? It's already there.

Coolness? You wanna be a filthy pirate? You can already go an be a filthy pirate. With security loss and all the other cool things that come with being a filthy pirate.

Any other reasons?