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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mr M
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Posted - 2006.10.16 09:57:00 -
[1]
Another monday and another issue of Eve tribune is out for your reading enjoyment. This week we keep the coverage of the war in the south between BoB and ASCN, we get another part of our production guide, and we wonder, what should and shouldn't a GM do?
EVEgeek | EVE Tribune |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.16 10:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/10/2006 10:12:07
I liked the story of the GM's, but I think they have their own versions of what really happened. I can understand the frustrations though...:)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.16 10:19:00 -
[3]
differing versions are a issue always
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D2O HeavyWater
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.16 11:28:00 -
[4]
Top read as always.
Keep up the good work.
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Rab
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Posted - 2006.10.16 12:54:00 -
[5]
Knowing little of the politics of that site,it does seem clear there is a very specific pro BOB - anti ASCN bias in that report.
Is this intended or is the site apparently neutral?
I know noone on either side of this battle, merely wondering if its deliberate propaganda and part of the 'role play'?
- In an infinite universe, everything is definite. - |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.10.16 13:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/10/2006 13:33:07 The article on GM mismanagement just added more worry to a situation that already bothers me. It seems that the GMs are not currently spending sufficient time taking stock of the situation before handing down judgements. I've heard a number of horror stories, including one extreme case where a poor bastard kamikaze'd macrominer, then got banned. Basically, the macrominer got ****ed, sent the dude a bunch of ISK, then just waited for the poor guy's report of macromining petition to be investigated. When it was found out that the macroer had sent the poor bastard ISK, the macro-killer got hit with the banstick.
It's incidents like this that bother me, especially since I have a unique arrangement regarding my tech II BPO. Basically, I escrow a batch of siege launchers to a broker, who then transports and sells them for me. I set the escrow to zero cost, and my broker checks the market and then later sends me ISK based off the average going rate at the time, minus a fee for taking care of all of the dirty little details.
So what does this have to do with the GMs?
Simple: I'm being sent 500-700 million every couple weeks as a player donation, not directly as part of an escrow transaction. If someone gets ****ed because I blew them up and spuriously petitions me, a GM might see the wallet journal entries and jump to conclusions. With the current knee-jerk reactions of the GMs, I wouldn't be surprised to get hit with an unjustified ban.
Paranoid?
Probably. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.16 13:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rab Knowing little of the politics of that site,it does seem clear there is a very specific pro BOB - anti ASCN bias in that report.
Not realy. Afaik BoB has no relation to the author. And in all honesty, the things stated there are largely true, except that matters ar in reality a bit worse for ASCN then one might think upon reading that article. I figure it's a nice middle ground position that the tribune took there.
Old blog |
DrakeStone
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.16 14:49:00 -
[8]
This is really very close to professiona level output.
It absolutely deserves a sticky based on the consistency of issues.
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Tuang Pao
The-Wrath
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Posted - 2006.10.16 16:14:00 -
[9]
Agreed. This is the source for news in EVE as far as I'm concerned.
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Jonathan Fisher
Galactic Security
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Posted - 2006.10.16 19:31:00 -
[10]
I would just like to state that the war coverage articles are based on verifiable facts and reasonable conjectures.
I was so far unable to get official statements from either alliance, somthing I hope would change in the future. I would like both alliances to consider this as another formal invitation to contact me via their representatives and to refute what they feel was wrong about my articles, as well as issue statements on their achievements that they feel should be known and might not be known to me.
I am sorry if it appears that there is pro-BoB bias, but the facts are that, at this time, the war seems to be going rather well for BoB and quite bad for ASCN. After two weeks of what was basically a war of attrition, the only tactical achievement of the sieges of TPAR and TCAG was to accelerate the loss of ASCN battleships, which ASCN surprisingly seems not to be able to replace. Two weeks into the war, they have trouble fielding fleets to match BoB numbers and have resorted to guerrila tactics and harassment without much effect for now.
I am aware that ASCN claims they are the richest alliance in the game and can churn out BSs like frigates, but current facts do not support that. They seem to be fielding smaller and smaller fleets all the time. Their latest tactic of fighter spamming with carriers in BoB space protected by small POS towers is at this time both not effective enough and a clear indication that their carrier reserves are much less drained than their BS reserves at this time.
If and when ASCN organises better and starts winning this war, which is still quite possible, will the tribune be accused of pro-ASCN bias?
- EVE Tribune - |
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Rab
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Posted - 2006.10.16 23:31:00 -
[11]
The facts are as stated, and do clearly show BOB had the better week and is certainly winning the war, that I think is shown clearly enough in the body of the story.
It was more the parts after the facts, such as:
'TS recording of ASCN commander ordering a mass Quit' - no information on who the commander was, or who made the recording, just taken pretty much as fact.
'M claims Bob used lag tactics and petitioned it' - writer states twice they consider this 'unlikely' and 'even more unlikely'.
'BOB forum offensive funny and highlighting FACT that ASCN use logoff tactics' - Small but positive pieces akin to propaganda reports during wartime to keep home morale high.
'Sources in ASCN claim the alliance have low morale. They have hired mercenaries. Indications are they only hired these mercenaries because they are rich but powerless and resorting to buying help they cant raise elsewhere' - fact of hiring mercenaries coupled to small tidbits to paint a clear negative picture, possibly secret information from 'sources' to justfy this, but very much a most negative conclusion without much real fact given to justify such negativity.
I appreciate that reports from both sides are going to be vague, and official lines from leaders will always be biased to their side of things. I really was curious mostly to know if this was an independant report or deliberate, but im happy if it really is a case that the writers are speaking much of what they simply cannot reveal, such as sources giving more information than they can publish, and the insider scoop to give the emotion behind the facts, good or ill.
I did find the other articles on there very good, and to say things that perhaps these forums don't and can't say, and im all for a broader picture.
- In an infinite universe, everything is definite. - |
Blacklight
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.16 23:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jonathan Fisher I was so far unable to get official statements from either alliance, somthing I hope would change in the future. I would like both alliances to consider this as another formal invitation to contact me via their representatives and to refute what they feel was wrong about my articles, as well as issue statements on their achievements that they feel should be known and might not be known to me.
We officially have no problem with the content of the articles, there are some inaccuracies but nothing major.
If you do miss anything newsworthy one of the CEOs will drop you a mail.
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Teta Sekretarica
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Posted - 2006.10.17 09:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Teta Sekretarica on 17/10/2006 09:04:06 removed
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Waut
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.17 10:06:00 -
[14]
Good job on the GM article
Outbreak! F*** Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf***ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
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Sharkbait
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Posted - 2006.10.17 10:58:00 -
[15]
i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved.
also sometimes they decide stuff based on server stability. if they think it will lag up the server or even crash it, they will get involved. you peeps basically have no idea what happens in the office regarding involving themselves in ingame affairs.
Spank You later |
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sharkbait i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved.
also sometimes they decide stuff based on server stability. if they think it will lag up the server or even crash it, they will get involved. you peeps basically have no idea what happens in the office regarding involving themselves in ingame affairs.
Yeah, thought so. Nice to hear the other side of the story as well.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Miss Overlord
Gallente EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:03:00 -
[17]
i liked the death lotus pt 5 article been a pretty good read so far.
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TheNecromancer
Caldari The Royal Order The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:16:00 -
[18]
nicely written.
looking forward to #20
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Verus Potestas
Caldari Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sharkbait i read the 1st 3 lines for the GM artical and got bored. it's written based on rumors and complete crap spread by others. the stuff the GM's do is for a reason, not just something they decide to do to lighten up there lives. there is much talk between the senior GM's about getting involved with ingame stuff before they get involved.
also sometimes they decide stuff based on server stability. if they think it will lag up the server or even crash it, they will get involved. you peeps basically have no idea what happens in the office regarding involving themselves in ingame affairs.
Sharkbait 4tw. I like seeing the devs being opionated and plain disrespectful to some members of the player base. They totally deserve it
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Verus Potestas
Caldari Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:24:00 -
[20]
Having said that, I know of a lot of the incidents involved, and some fairly poor GM conduct in cases, as well as an alarming lack of consistency in GM action. Oh well.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
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Jonathan Fisher
Galactic Security
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rab
'Sources in ASCN claim the alliance have low morale. They have hired mercenaries. Indications are they only hired these mercenaries because they are rich but powerless and resorting to buying help they cant raise elsewhere' - fact of hiring mercenaries coupled to small tidbits to paint a clear negative picture, possibly secret information from 'sources' to justfy this, but very much a most negative conclusion without much real fact given to justify such negativity.
First off, thank you for your constructive criticism.
I understand the suspicion and am sorry that it has to be like this for now. I have several sources within both alliances and access to some of their forums, none of which I can name - so I can choose either to publish the information I have without stating some sources, or not to publish anything but the killboard statistics, which would make for a rather dry article.
I hope that time will prove my sources right and my assessments correct, and that people will grant me more trust in matters of galactic security. Until then, just note whatever I said that I didn't source, and compare it to upcoming developments to see how wrong I was.
Also, to me, being objective is much more important than appearing objective. In some situations, I would have to lie or stretch the truth to appear more objective, and that is something I am not willing to do.
Originally by: Blacklight
We officially have no problem with the content of the articles, there are some inaccuracies but nothing major.
Thank you very much. Once again, I would like a statment or contact from ASCN representatives, as well, especially if they feel wronged in any way.
- EVE Tribune - |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:54:00 -
[22]
Ah well, I know what I won't be reading in the future. Much of the three articles I did bother reading was perceptual BS, a line that particularly upset me was where it stated that CCP had no plans of fixing escrow system and that a new system had been talked about for two years. First of all, not that long, second of all, is it the Tribune's stance that information should NOT be given to the players? After all, they've been feeding us tidbits of information on the go, from the planning stage through the development stages. That's the two years of CCP not doing anything about it, I guess. Heartening to know that it is the public opinion to not get info on what is being done until it's being implemented, because then the public opinion will ***** that it takes time to implement. Saddening.
And as stated by Sharkbait, the source criticism and objectivity can be questioned. It's more of blogs, where you can be however subjective you want, than news articles.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's that. - What am I listening to? |
Sean Dillon
Caldari Privateers
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Posted - 2006.10.17 11:57:00 -
[23]
GM's should stay out player affairs, like sending an mixed ascn&axe fleet back home. If its because servers will crash, then you better buy new hardware. Idealy tranquilty should be able to handle anything players throw at it with their mega fleets in 1 system. Just like it was in the early days.
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Tundaar
Minmatar Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:07:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Tundaar on 17/10/2006 12:09:47 Hmm - Some slightly misleading stats on ASCN vs BoB - Looking at only Capital ships and Battleships tells only part of a picture - yes heavy losses, yes sustainable, but try looking at other ship classes as well for a fairer view. For instance the same chart showing only T2 Frigate and cruiser losses would look like BoB was being slaughtered. Stats can say many things.
Also since whan has hiring Mercs been a sign that ASCN are in a bad spot - perhaps a more balanced view would be that it is an appropriate use of fiscal resources?
2c worth
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Lookata Marketa
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:39:00 -
[25]
Hi!
Just wanted to say I've been reading eve-tribune since 5th issue, and even though there are still some patchwork articles inside, I can safely say that all I see is constant improvement.
Keep up the good work!
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jonathan Fisher Also, to me, being objective is much more important than appearing objective. In some situations, I would have to lie or stretch the truth to appear more objective, and that is something I am not willing to do.
Don't waste your time trying to explain integrity to this community. Doing so only shows that you care about what you do... and they'll do everything they can to **** on it.
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Kyguard
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:14:00 -
[27]
The article is so full of crap and bias it's not funny. Won't be reading this again.. === It's great being Amarr, aint it? - Elve Sorrow
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Jonathan Fisher
Galactic Security
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:21:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Jonathan Fisher on 17/10/2006 13:22:00
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Don't waste your time trying to explain integrity to this community. Doing so only shows that you care about what you do... and they'll do everything they can to **** on it.
I think the previous poster proved your point.
- EVE Tribune - |
evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:23:00 -
[29]
I am happy that there is effort on players part to make things for the community. Eve-tribute gives me an interesting look at things, but also at times, not every article will be of the greatest quality.
I sometimes wonder if this community is worth all the effort some people put in to try and make it better, only to face hard words for our hard work and effort. But despite that, we continue, we press on.
Mistakes are made, we all make mistakes, but learn from them and move on. Mr. M could be a bit more careful about his selection process, but remember the contributors are the players themselves and its up to the players to make a difference.
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Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide |
Somatic Neuron
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Posted - 2006.10.17 14:12:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Somatic Neuron on 17/10/2006 14:13:54 nvm ---------- |
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