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I want some action! (concerning lack of pvp)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:26:00 - [1] High sec is full of miners, low sec is empty aside from the occasional hauler and gate campers. Why do people gate camp? Because that's the only way they can get a kill. Please ccp I'm getting bored here. I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. I know this has been brought up in the past but I'm just trying to bring more attention to this issue. Low sec is EMPTY! And I'm getting bored.
Plaetean Mortis Manus	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:33:00 - [2] Quote: Why do people gate camp? Because that's the only way they can get a kill. So wrong... Nice short sighted view btw.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:36:00 - [3] You're in the wrong low sec. You could also try 0.0 RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Plaetean Quote: Why do people gate camp? Because that's the only way they can get a kill. So wrong... Nice short sighted view btw. WTS exaggeration comprehension. Sure they can get kills other ways, but not nearly as many. I'm talking about belt piracy here. The sad fact is that I've gotten more PvP in empire by theiving ore and having miners & their corp members attack me. Oh, and 0.0 fleet blobbing doesn't count.
Rex Deus Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:42:00 - [5] I do agree with the OP to a large extent, at least in the sense that low-sec is very sparsely populated because the reward level is not comparable with it's risk factor.
Rowan Mayfair	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:51:00 - [6] Quit being a whining ganker, form a corp, declare war on someone you don't like.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Rex Deus I do agree with the OP to a large extent, at least in the sense that low-sec is very sparsely populated because the reward level is not comparable with it's risk factor. Yeah, it does suck. Too much ISK in high sec, not enough in low sec, fine in 0.0. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Tarazed Aquilae	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:59:00 - [8] Welcome to the food chain. When the predators drive off or kill all the prey, the predators get to starve, or eat each other. People donÆt want to lose months of work to some low sec pirate, so they stay out. What do you want CCP to do about it? Maybe allow piracy in high sec? They already do in that you can kill mining barges or fully loaded industrials in high sec empire. You lose your ship if you do, but a cheap cruiser isnÆt much of a loss with insurance and the rewards can be incredible with a little luck. ItÆs even easier than 0.0 piracy because there is no defense. If someone comes after a barge in 0.0 he has to fight his way through the guards first. In empire heÆs untouchable until he opens fire and by then itÆs too late. But maybe this isnÆt enough for you and you want to just fly around killing miners and haulers all over empire. Except that then the miners wouldnÆt mine. They would get fighting ships too and hunt for kills. So youÆre back to the predators eating each other due to a lack of prey. Or maybe you want to increase the ôrewardsö of low sec? Sure, add a bunch of rare ore and people will flock there. The game already has that, itÆs called deep 0.0 space. Empire miners have chosen to make money in a low risk manner. Most of them probably arenÆt intensely playing the game when they mine, they are watching TV or listening to music. No realistic amount of reward would make the risk of mining in low sec worthwhile for most people. Besides, the value of rare ores is that they are rare. If those ores arenÆt rare anymore then they lose their value. The only realistic way to get more people into low sec is to make piracy harder. Drastically increase the security hit for piracy and make it much harder to ever increase your security status. Put an automatic bounty on everyone with a status of below -2 (collectable only if you have a positive status.) of half the ISK value of the ship they are flying. (Someone suggested something like this the other day.) Make their pod worth half their clone costs for good measure. This will separate the real hard core pirates from the wannabes. People will move to low sec because there just wonÆt be many pirates. Then the remaining pirates will have more targets to hit. IÆm NOT saying that I want to see this done, IÆm just pointing out that itÆs the only way you are ever going to see more people in low sec. (Personally I think low sec is a bad idea. You should either be in a PvP zone or not.)
Caliwyrm O'Libr	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Kruel I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. and Originally by: Kruel I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. 1+1=? You want to shoot at anything and everything and then can't figure out why no one comes near 'your' system? You're not interested in PvP. If you are then go to 0.0 and raid some alliance space. All these posts crying over how there is no one to GANK in low sec while calling it PvP makes me chuckle (this part isn't directly pointed at the OP but some still fits). For such a negative outlook on 'carebears' I can't help but think of such posts/rants/whines as 'carebear pirates' not getting their way. They brag about how they kill anything and everything and then lament how few PVP kitted BS/Cruiser vs miner ships fights they encounter. There is such a huge difference between FIGHTS (risky since either side may win or lose) and GANKS (carebear/risk adverse--one person is assured to win with relative ease) and the vast majority of posts I read here are wanting more ganks. Trying to move the PvE players into lowsec is just one example of this. PvP setups suck in PvE and PvE setups suck in PvP but tht doesn't matter to the carebear pirates since PvP kits (theirs) >> the PvE kits. Don't get me wrong. Ganks have their place (declared wars, someone escorting a highly lucrative BPO, etc) but gank enough people indescrimanately simply 'because you can' suddenly people stop playing in 'your' system.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Pestillence on 16/10/2006 17:19:24 Originally by: Tarazed Aquilae .. Actually, screw it. Your post isnt worthy of a sensible comment.
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Antitrust Securities	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:27:00 - [11] Isnt that what the war dec's all about? Just get in a large alliance corp and i bet there is a bunch of pvp'in oppurtunity. Or join a merc corp Lucius Ventrue Pleasure ship - Thats how I roll
Leikeze Mrotserif Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:28:00 - [12] What is this lack of pvp you speak of? I never log on and find a lack of people to shoot at. -------------------------------------
Ikvar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 17:39:00 - [13] There should be more incentive for people to use lowsec belts though.
Swindy AirHawk Alliance Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Kruel Please ccp I'm getting bored here. I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. Go to Pure Blind. Alliance standings are a complete mess, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together ... mass hysteria. Erm ... anyway, go to Pure Blind.
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.10.16 22:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr Originally by: Kruel I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. and Originally by: Kruel I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. 1+1=? You want to shoot at anything and everything and then can't figure out why no one comes near 'your' system? You're not interested in PvP. If you are then go to 0.0 and raid some alliance space. All these posts crying over how there is no one to GANK in low sec while calling it PvP makes me chuckle (this part isn't directly pointed at the OP but some still fits). For such a negative outlook on 'carebears' I can't help but think of such posts/rants/whines as 'carebear pirates' not getting their way. They brag about how they kill anything and everything and then lament how few PVP kitted BS/Cruiser vs miner ships fights they encounter. There is such a huge difference between FIGHTS (risky since either side may win or lose) and GANKS (carebear/risk adverse--one person is assured to win with relative ease) and the vast majority of posts I read here are wanting more ganks. Trying to move the PvE players into lowsec is just one example of this. PvP setups suck in PvE and PvE setups suck in PvP but tht doesn't matter to the carebear pirates since PvP kits (theirs) >> the PvE kits. Don't get me wrong. Ganks have their place (declared wars, someone escorting a highly lucrative BPO, etc) but gank enough people indescrimanately simply 'because you can' suddenly people stop playing in 'your' system. QFT
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.10.16 23:39:00 - [16] Amamake -> belt 1 -> hf ---------------------------------- Real Gangsta
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.17 00:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Kruel High sec is full of miners, low sec is empty aside from the occasional hauler and gate campers. Why do people gate camp? Because that's the only way they can get a kill. Please ccp I'm getting bored here. I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. I know this has been brought up in the past but I'm just trying to bring more attention to this issue. Low sec is EMPTY! And I'm getting bored. um, you answered your own question -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:11:00 - [18] With the apparent total invincibility that one can enjoy in eve if he has the slightest clue, gatecamps are the only way to catch people that don't feel suicidal. Local, safespots and their imbalanced counter via probing, ,logging off, stabs, aligned people. All those things force people to gatecamp. The only place where none of those come into play and you can finally get a kill or two. Please note that logging off still works in gatecamps but to a less extent. Try this for a change: Go on a rampage, let's say 5 people. Go visit 0.0. Start your timer when you undock, stop timer when you dock back in empire space (NOT log off in random hostile space). Count your real damage inflicted. Make a real estimate, insurance payout - insurance cost + mods cost + clone cost (if applies) of the stuff you ganked. Then, optionally, subtract your losses. Bear in mind, you are not allowed to pause timer if you log off after being ubercamped by a blob for an hour or two. Right, you did this? Ok, divide damage dealt / hours spent. That's your isk/hour damage ratio. Now divide it with the people involved to get isk per hour per person. Now compare that number to the low-skilled 30m/hour/person mining crappy stuff in 0.0. What? you are highly-skilled pvp combat pilot? ok, then use the 60m/hour/person number which is the lowest end what a skilled miner can make. Compare the two numbers now. Do you see the apparent problem? Yes, I know it's silly. Causing damage is infinently less "productive" than actually sucking roids. And roids don't even shoot back! (if you ever lost a ship while mining, you suck) Eve in it's current status makes any kill attempt vs anything with 1 brain cell a total waste of time. The current engagements are only happening because some people "like the pretty explosions". Other than that, there is not a single other economical or political reason to roam around and kill stuff. The single and only effect a roaming squad has is one: bore the crap out of people. Make them blob you, then dissapear, then when they go back to bearing re-appear. Keep repeating without doing anything actuall till one of the two parties drops dead from boredom. That's it. The best thing we can do today is bore the crap out of each other. This is the current state of warfare in eve. I hide, you hide, we all hide and wait each other out.
Zimroel	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:11:00 - [19] You're hunting in the wrong place. I take a break from mission running occasionally and kill local pirates - but few of them are interested in fighting 1v1 unless they're much older in game. I'll happily fire first vs pirates up to about 1 year older than me at gates as I know most of them have cheap fittings and and aren't used to fighting vs ppl who can actually moujnt guns/missiles rather than mining lasers. Maybe you're in the wrong area - or maybe your idea of a "challenge" is a 1 month old character in a mining ship. I avoid characters year older than me but have no problems taking on ones a bit older 1v1. It breaks up the monotony of mission running tbh. The "pirates" I've fought had cheap crap equipment on their ships - maybe if you guys actually bought some decent kit so we got decent loot when we killed you we'd fight you a bit more often.
Tuang Pao The-Wrath	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:35:00 - [20] If anyone sounded like they need a break it's you, Dahin. If you're so jaded and disappointed why do stay?
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:41:00 - [21] hope
Jan Mierre	Posted - 2006.10.17 07:29:00 - [22] Let me get this straight, because I'm having trouble believing this is what you mean. You sit as far away as possible from anything that might possibly shoot at you so that you can occasionally fire your guns and see a big, pretty explosion? This is more entertaining than shooting npc rats because ...? You know that big splotch of red that shows up EVERYWHERE when you filter the map by sec status? Guess what! There's people there. They know how to fight. Right there is all the "action" you'll ever want. Or is there something on the other side of that 0.1 gate that scares you?
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.17 07:49:00 - [23] See, I find this amusing. Dahin is crying because he finds roaming boring, and gatecamps are his answer. I find gatecamps boring, and roam for fun Interesting, isn't it? RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Logi3 SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:42:00 - [24] You must be lazy, theres plenty of people to kill in low sec. Just move around and dont stay in the same area too long or go where theres other pirates -----------------------------------------------
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:34:00 - [25] Some people are misreading me or are genuinely trying to make me flame them. No, I am not trying to justify my camping nor lowsec sniping. And the simple reason for that is: I do not do that kind of stuff. I'm mainly into roaming. Even in the rare static situations (like gatecamps), I'm usually the only person in the squad to be running around. I am not passing judgement on snipers gatecamps and pirates. I couldn't care less how someone gets his kills.
Black Torment Caldari White Wolves Defence league The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:46:00 - [26] Too many people are under the impression that 0.0 PvP consists entirely of 100 man fleet setups. This couldn't be farther from the truth. EVERYONE hates blobbing, especially in the current state of the TQ cluster where you have to wait 2 minutes to activate a module. It is a necessary evil, much like pos warfare, that comes with territorial conquest. There's plenty of people simply going out in much smaller roaming gangs looking for equal sized fights. It is, in my opinion, the best fun you can have in eve when your 25 man gang meets another 25 (or more) man gang and a lot of people go kaboom :). That's why we do it every night. There are plenty of NPC owned 0.0 areas where you aren't gonna encounter much (if any) fleet fighting. Get some friends and head to Curse, you'll have a blast.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.10.17 11:57:00 - [27] The problem with discussing low sec is that the morons who make it hell and think it is the natural PvP ground, aren't the people on here saying "If you were as uber and smart as me, you'd survive in low sec". There's no point to this, just accept low sec as a bit of a waste, let the morons blow each other up on an endless supply of Ebay ships. Wait till you've got some skills trained then sell up and head for 0.0 with a jump clone and don't stop till you get there. When I finally get there, it had better suck less than low sec and high sec. Can't see it being worse than low sec. Washing dishes is better than low sec. I do look forward to decent PvP some day. Just not today. Seriously, if you manage to flip a tractored JetCan with your shuttle and you started 34Km away, it's a Macro in the hauler, make no mistake.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:46:00 - [28] As someone who sits well and truly at the top of the food chain, I can assure you that there is money to be made from PVP. Infact if you do it right, you should get rich quite quickly. There are two basic ways to kill people when looking to profit. 1) Kill people who are travelling. This means you sit still and wait for them to come to you. 2) Kill people who are mining/npcing etc. This means you roam around and look for targets. Both have the advantages and disadvantages. In low-sec the quality of targets is much less. In 0.0, a much higher proportion of targets have good loot. Now, there is a problem with 1 and 2. As carebears become smarter, they start to adapt. They will use scouts to make sure their travel routes are clear. They will watch local closely and if any hostiles come in they will safe/log. If you can figure out how to go beyond these then you should get yourself a lot of kills. Of course, there is the standard fights but you really have to be top of your game to make good money from these too! Good thing is, most people fit t2 loot as they believe in safety in numbers. My main point, go to 0.0. Join a 0.0 pirate corp and find out what this game really has to offer. Without having to worry about sentry guns its a much happier place.
Malicious Wraith The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2006.10.17 13:31:00 - [29] As Shin Ra said, money can be made from pvp, my only source of income, and I mean only (No ratting, have alts, and no production etc etc), is PvP, and I have easily made over a billion isk in a short amount of time. Their are a few secrets that no safecarebear can guard himself against, but its just a trick of the trade, you will learn it in time. I could always go for more pvp though. More = Better ----------------------------------------
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:29:00 - [30] There is no question about pvp bringing in some serious isk when done correctly. What I am questioning is the apparent imbalance of isk killed/hour ratio compared to bear isk/hour ratio. One is to expect things are destroyed much easier than they are created. But this is not the case in eve (any more, used to be though when people didn't have 20 bs each). In extent, I also have to say that no matter how good one can be in pvp and making money with it, the bears always make more. Endlessly more. And no, "ooh, I once popped a BoB hauler with 1+b of t2 loot in it" doesn't count since it's once every christmas. But let's not take pvp as a money-making form. It's quite far-fetched, let's leave death and destruction to what it is: plain destruction (economic).
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:39:00 - [31] I find it more productive to ambush gate campers and steal their good guns (or ransom them) than it is to wait for someone to wander by. Ambushing gate campers is relativly easy IF you have someone in your gang with a cov ops ship. HEAVY on the short range warp scramblers as nearly all gatecampers have 4+ stabs.
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.10.18 00:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Dahin There is no question about pvp bringing in some serious isk when done correctly. What I am questioning is the apparent imbalance of isk killed/hour ratio compared to bear isk/hour ratio. One is to expect things are destroyed much easier than they are created. But this is not the case in eve (any more, used to be though when people didn't have 20 bs each). In extent, I also have to say that no matter how good one can be in pvp and making money with it, the bears always make more. Endlessly more. And no, "ooh, I once popped a BoB hauler with 1+b of t2 loot in it" doesn't count since it's once every christmas. But let's not take pvp as a money-making form. It's quite far-fetched, let's leave death and destruction to what it is: plain destruction (economic). Ok, so you are upset that the bears make more ISK than you take from them when you blow them up? If the bears didn't make enough ISK to cover their expenses and still show a proffit they would never, ever come to low sec. As it is the bears I keep an eye on are in low sec all the time. With plenty of escorts. I myself spend most of my time in low sec. I see folks all the time. But the ratio of Anti-pie to pie is pretty unfavorable for the Pies in my region. If you are having as much trouble as it looks like you are get out of the Forge and try some more interesting regions. (admitedly I don't know that you personally live in the Forge, but dang is that place lousy with Pies E-R included.) -Galan
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.18 02:41:00 - [33] guys, I am not referring to lowsec. I'm seeing the pvp thing from a 0.0 perspective. I haven't spent any reasonable time around there, we only visit it for recreational/vacation reasons. So I can't speak for that part of eve. Admittedly, killing stuff in lowsec is way easier since with the amount of local traffic some systems get; people loose their best defence: the empty/all-blue local.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Kruel High sec is full of miners, low sec is empty aside from the occasional hauler and gate campers. Why do people gate camp? Because that's the only way they can get a kill. Please ccp I'm getting bored here. I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. I know this has been brought up in the past but I'm just trying to bring more attention to this issue. Low sec is EMPTY! And I'm getting bored. So you arent after PvP at all. Youre after gank opportunities. PvP, at least to anyone with any skills, is when you fight a target that actually has a chance to fight back. Youre talking about your dream world of low sec belts filled with mining barges. Thats a gankfest. If its really PvP youre after, well there are populated areas of low sec, you just need to look harder. Or, as someone suggested, you could go to 0.0. My suggestion would be to set course for EC-P8R or FD-MLJ, as you are very likely to get a fight in those areas. If you want to just gank carebears, well theres always deklein region. This signature space for rent
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:12:00 - [35] Originally by: xenodia So you arent after PvP at all. Youre after gank opportunities. Give me a break. I just want to blow something up... ANYTHING! I don't care if it's a barge or a battleship. Fact is, nobody belt rats anymore, and I haven't seen lowsec mining ops in months. Effing carebear. Go away.
Osia Gallente Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2006.10.20 16:27:00 - [36] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: xenodia So you arent after PvP at all. Youre after gank opportunities. Give me a break. I just want to blow something up... ANYTHING! I don't care if it's a barge or a battleship. Fact is, nobody belt rats anymore, and I haven't seen lowsec mining ops in months. Effing carebear. Go away. Well you will most likely not convince anyone to enter low security space with that demeanor. One suggestion might be to turn your enthusiasm for destruction toward those who are there. I am sure there are others in the areas you frequent which share your pension for destruction. Perhaps one of them would serve as a viable target? The other side of the situation is that you've been so efficient in your bloodletting that its time to move into another low security pocket. As others have suggested there are still some target rich environments in low security space. As far as I know there are still people who hunt for NPC's in low security belts. --- Logistics XO, Astrum Contract Services Group
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 17:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Kruel Give me a break. I just want to blow something up... ANYTHING! I don't care if it's a barge or a battleship. Fact is, nobody belt rats anymore, and I haven't seen lowsec mining ops in months. Effing carebear. Go away. I can almost guarantee you that I was engaging in pvp (against stuff that could fight back even) back when your idea of multiplayer gaming was having some friends over to play playstation. The fact that youd call me a carebear just broadcast to anyone that knows me that you havent a clue what youre talking about. Its not my fault you come across as a no-skill low sec ganker who I wouldnt trust to fly a tackling frigate. Im not the one that wrote a whining post complaining about the lack of easy ganks .... err I mean "pvp" in low sec. If you want to "blow **** up", I could give you at least 10 system names where you could basically guarantee a fight. The problem is, most of the empire noobpirates avoid those areas like the plague precisely BECAUSE they might actually get a fight there, as opposed to an easy gank. So, if you want some respect from people who actually know how to pvp, grow a set and head out to where the big boys play. Or stay in the sandbox and continue to make assinine posts that show your complete lack of knowledge and skill. Either way, you will probably still never be anything more than inconsequential in the eve universe. This signature space for rent
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:00:00 - [38] You're reading more into my posts than what I'm posting. You're assuming that I want nothing but an "easy gank". When did I say that I was looking for only barges? I want any target, battleship or below, but I don't want to gate camp. Is that so difficult to understand?
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Kruel High sec is full of miners, low sec is empty aside from the occasional hauler and gate campers. Please ccp I'm getting bored here. I wanna blast me some fools without resorting to lame 150k+ Tempest gate camps. I want to see barges with escorts in asteroid belts. But no one mines in low sec because it's not worth the risk. Im sure it was those parts of your original post which confused me. But hey, if you'll engage a battleship (and im assuming youd engage a pvp fitted battleship, not just a mining/ratting one), then more power to you. Me personally, I like to gank noobpirates in their battleships when they are all flashy red and I dont have to take a sec hit. I hate having to NPC hunt to clean up sec status :). And some of them say the funniest things in local when they get ganked by an arazu. One guy in a megathron called me a "woosie girl" for killing him "without letting him target me". The funny part was when I engaged him he was flashing red from sniping a hauler at a gate. He shut up when I asked him if he waited for the hauler to close the 150km gap and target him before blasting it. This signature space for rent
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 18:39:00 - [40] The bigger the target, the better the prize. I fly an Ishkur, but would engage a single battleship given the chance. Don't think I won't warp out when things get bad though.
anyname isfine	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:07:00 - [41] This is what is called the "Lotka-Volterra Model". It demonstrates the relation of predator to prey. Too many pirates ganking, and your easy targets move on. Thus Eve mirrors reality. Not enough easy targets? Well then there are too many pirates. Pirates go hungry, and order is restored to the universe.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:17:00 - [42] Lol, nice graph. Still though, the problem is slightly different in Eve. See, there ARE lots of miners (rabbits), but they never go below .5 space. Now I know I sound like I want to easy-gank barges in low sec, but what I'd rather see are barges with more hp and escort ships that I'd have to deal with as a pirate. I'd be more interested in the combat involved with the escorts as I would the barge. Problem is, it's not cost efficient to employ escorts for lowsec mining. You're better off with 3 barges in .5 than you are with 1 barge and 2 escorts in .2 space. My only hope for some pvp is finding someone who's belt ratting. But all I ever get are noobs who haven't learned how to check local or use the scanner. :( I posted an idea in the ideas forum about increasing barge HP by a lot. That change along with better ore in lowsec (or worse ore in highsec) could make the lowsec risk factor worth it. In fact maybe rat bounties should be increased too.
anyname isfine	Posted - 2006.10.20 19:48:00 - [43] Consider hi-sec to be the rabbit's burrow. The good food is in hi-sec, but he will never go there if there are too many foxes. He will take some risks to enjoy the vastly increased pay-off, but not if it means certain death. If no miners are venturing to the profitable areas, it is because risk/reward is out of balance. I'm not speaking of balance on an individual level, but a collective one. In other words if there were less pirates there would be many more miners and haulers. The pirates, although fewer in number, would also enjoy greater rewards without thinning the herd too much. The lack of targets you speak of, by definition, means there are too many pirates.
Caliwyrm O'Libr	Posted - 2006.10.20 20:40:00 - [44] Sorry, I still think most of the low sec pirates aren't in it for the "PvP" as much as they are for ganking and calling it PvP.. If there are so many hungry pirates in low sec why aren't they fighting each other? Could it be because their targets would shoot back and it may actually be a close fight? If it is for profit wouldn't hunting PvPers in 0.0 be just as lucrative or better than killing the occasional hauler/miner? Oh, but they'd shoot back too..
anyname isfine	Posted - 2006.10.20 21:02:00 - [45] Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr Sorry, I still think most of the low sec pirates aren't in it for the "PvP" as much as they are for ganking and calling it PvP.. If there are so many hungry pirates in low sec why aren't they fighting each other? Could it be because their targets would shoot back and it may actually be a close fight? If it is for profit wouldn't hunting PvPers in 0.0 be just as lucrative or better than killing the occasional hauler/miner? Oh, but they'd shoot back too.. QFT Not always true, but mostly so. I've had pirates complain about having a gang come after them in revenge for killing a solo hauler saying it wasn't fair. For some it's about easy kills for the killboard and they flip out when the tables are turned. I mean, why on earth would a pirate mess with a shuttle if there was no profit motive involved unless they intend to ransom your implants, which most do not? However there are a fair number that RP, and although you hate getting killed in any case when just trying to earn a bit of isk hailing minerals or loot, at least the RP pirates add to the flavor of the game, as opposed to the pure gankers that are really just pressing the killboard easy button IMHO.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.20 22:54:00 - [46] Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr Sorry, I still think most of the low sec pirates aren't in it for the "PvP" as much as they are for ganking and calling it PvP.. If there are so many hungry pirates in low sec why aren't they fighting each other? Could it be because their targets would shoot back and it may actually be a close fight? If it is for profit wouldn't hunting PvPers in 0.0 be just as lucrative or better than killing the occasional hauler/miner? Oh, but they'd shoot back too.. Thats pretty much what ive been saying throughout the whole thread. Ganking /= pvp. Most gankers are not good pvpers. If they were good, they would be out pvping against targets that could actually give them a fight. This signature space for rent
Tokar Lorell Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.21 00:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Kruel I'm a lame pirate who has to camp gates and ambush defenseless targets for kills. I want industrials to travel in big, defenseless groups so I can take them all on at once and feel badass instead of doing the lame sniping thing. Like it's been said already...you know where to go for excitement. But you're too scared to go there and would rather continue doing the same stupid ganking routine, apparently.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.21 01:51:00 - [48] Lol nice fake quote. Apparently you haven't read what I've been saying. I find people in belts, I don't camp gates. Have you ever tried gate camping in an Assault Frigate?
Rowan Mayfair	Posted - 2006.10.21 02:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Kruel Lol nice fake quote. Apparently you haven't read what I've been saying. I find people in belts weakened and preoccupied by the rats, I don't camp gates. Have you ever tried gate camping in an Assault Frigate? /fake quote

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