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Arelia Nova State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.03 04:22:00 - [1] - Quote Hello every body, I am currently a merchant and I came here to advise with You. My goal, from this thread is to advise on which ship to train for, so that I can effectively rush/grind/blitz level 4 missions to gain faction standing in the fastest possible time. The ship must be fully T2 fitted, that includes drones. -Ishtar -t3 battle-cruiser -Eagle -Tech3 Cruiser -Ashimmu -Gila -Phantasm -Rattler (T2 Sentry drones to make up for lack of DPS) Which one, if ANY of the above choices should I go with to expend the least amount of SP training for to blitz/rush level 4's as fast as possible?
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 259	Posted - 2011.12.03 04:44:00 - [2] - Quote Arelia Nova wrote: Hello every body, I am currently a merchant and I came here to advise with You. My goal, from this thread is to advise on which ship to train for, so that I can effectively rush/grind/blitz level 4 missions to gain faction standing in the fastest possible time. The ship must be fully T2 fitted, that includes drones. -Ishtar -t3 battle-cruiser -Eagle -Tech3 Cruiser -Ashimmu -Gila -Phantasm -Rattler (T2 Sentry drones to make up for lack of DPS) Which one, if ANY of the above choices should I go with to expend the least amount of SP training for to blitz/rush level 4's as fast as possible? Drake/Raven. Missile boats are forgiving to low sp, and missiles cost less sp than guns/drones. Drones, in particular, cost a lot of SP to be effective, not to mention needs memory/intelligence remap. The above list is either sp intensive droneboats, or random cruisers that can't run lvl4s.
Kaanchana Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 41	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:02:00 - [3] - Quote What the above poster said. Drake/raven is the best if u want to do it less sp way, but i would advise against it. Your dps wil be pathetic and so your isk/hr will e low. Now if u can spend an extra month to get to a tengu, then thats worth it. Train the cal cruiser 5 first, u can train t2 launchers after that. But if u have the skills for an ishtar and t2 sentries then its the best. if u don't have the skills for a t2 sentry i'd advise against training them. It takes longer than a tengu for those.
Arelia Nova State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:13:00 - [4] - Quote Goose99 wrote: Arelia Nova wrote: Hello every body, I am currently a merchant and I came here to advise with You. My goal, from this thread is to advise on which ship to train for, so that I can effectively rush/grind/blitz level 4 missions to gain faction standing in the fastest possible time. The ship must be fully T2 fitted, that includes drones. -Ishtar -t3 battle-cruiser -Eagle -Tech3 Cruiser -Ashimmu -Gila -Phantasm -Rattler (T2 Sentry drones to make up for lack of DPS) Which one, if ANY of the above choices should I go with to expend the least amount of SP training for to blitz/rush level 4's as fast as possible? Drake/Raven. Missile boats are forgiving to low sp, and missiles cost less sp than guns/drones. Drones, in particular, cost a lot of SP to be effective, not to mention needs memory/intelligence remap. The above list is either sp intensive droneboats, or random cruisers that can't run lvl4s. That makes allot of sense, but T2 drones are unavoidable, so Im only really looking at the difference of SP between T2 sentry drones and T2 Medium scout drones. The Drake is training wheels and the Raven just sucks especially for a low skill character.
Arelia Nova State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:18:00 - [5] - Quote Kaanchana wrote: What the above poster said. Drake/raven is the best if u want to do it less sp way, but i would advise against it. Your dps wil be pathetic and so your isk/hr will e low. Now if u can spend an extra month to get to a tengu, then thats worth it. Train the cal cruiser 5 first, u can train t2 launchers after that. But if u have the skills for an ishtar and t2 sentries then its the best. if u don't have the skills for a t2 sentry i'd advise against training them. It takes longer than a tengu for those. So, a Tengu would end up running less SP then a Rattler? Will a tengu run level 4's faster then a t2 sentry rattler?
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 260	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:21:00 - [6] - Quote Arelia Nova wrote: Goose99 wrote: Arelia Nova wrote: Hello every body, I am currently a merchant and I came here to advise with You. My goal, from this thread is to advise on which ship to train for, so that I can effectively rush/grind/blitz level 4 missions to gain faction standing in the fastest possible time. The ship must be fully T2 fitted, that includes drones. -Ishtar -t3 battle-cruiser -Eagle -Tech3 Cruiser -Ashimmu -Gila -Phantasm -Rattler (T2 Sentry drones to make up for lack of DPS) Which one, if ANY of the above choices should I go with to expend the least amount of SP training for to blitz/rush level 4's as fast as possible? Drake/Raven. Missile boats are forgiving to low sp, and missiles cost less sp than guns/drones. Drones, in particular, cost a lot of SP to be effective, not to mention needs memory/intelligence remap. The above list is either sp intensive droneboats, or random cruisers that can't run lvl4s. That makes allot of sense, but T2 drones are unavoidable, so Im only really looking at the difference of SP between T2 sentry drones and T2 Medium scout drones. The Drake is training wheels and the Raven just sucks especially for a low skill character. T2 light/med drones aren't sp intensive. T2 sentries are very sp intensive. Tengu takes a bit of time to get in due to racial cruiser 5, but is relatively fast to max out after that, due to subsystem skills being 1x, and t2 hml having low prerequisites. There are pimp BS like Mach and NM, which is easy to get in SP wise, but much harder to max out due to BS 5 and t2 large gun sp sink. Low sp Drake/Raven will do better than low sp gunboat/drone boat, but the ceiling in effectiveness is also lower.
Kaanchana Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 42	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:21:00 - [7] - Quote yep. now u can't compare t2 sentries with tengu. there is a lot of difference between the both in dps. And sentries are not practical when u need to move around. so you have to sit still till everything is dead and then move to pick objective/ warp gate etc which will cut down your isk/hr greatly. train up to t2 mediums. and aim for t2 hml tengu. best. ever.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 260	Posted - 2011.12.03 05:23:00 - [8] - Quote Kaanchana wrote: yep. now u can't compare t2 sentries with tengu. there is a lot of difference between the both in dps. And sentries are not practical when u need to move around. so you have to sit still till everything is dead and then move to pick objective/ warp gate etc which will cut down your isk/hr greatly. train up to t2 mediums. and aim for t2 hml tengu. best. ever. Tengu has no drone bay. You will need good missile support skills for exp velocity and radius for tengu to be effective, since you'll be hitting frigs with hmls.
Kaanchana Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 43	Posted - 2011.12.03 06:00:00 - [9] - Quote tengu doesn't need drones. What i meant was t2 medium drones are sufficient for most mission ships, so instead of wasting time with training t2 sentries, he should go for tengu. And lvl4 all missile skills are good enough. CN missiles easily pop the frigs fyi.
Mavnas The Scope Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2011.12.03 06:26:00 - [10] - Quote The raven is never the answer. Least amount of SP required to do 4s: Imperial Navy Slicer, and choose them carefully. Of course... when you have to go afk orbiting a BS shooting it for minutes at a time, it loses its appeal. If you want 4s as fast as possible with low SP go Drake -> Tengu or NH. Anything that requires drones to do full damage isn't low SP. Drone Interfacing V is like a full month. And that's before you can use T1 sentries. If you want low SP you need a BC/T3 cruiser so you can avoid the whole Large weapon systems to T2 grind. (Med weaps are much faster to grind.)

Rip Minner ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries 32	Posted - 2011.12.03 06:30:00 - [11] - Quote A Bestower with the proper Social skills is the lowest SP required to do level 4 missions when grinding for Standing. If standing is your main goal.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 317	Posted - 2011.12.03 07:28:00 - [12] - Quote Why is Raven never the answer? CNR is the best damage dealer you can get for the required SP to fly it effectively: you don't even need T2 fittings if you can spend a little ISK on faction modules. Drake -> Tengu -> CNR -> Golem Of course if you want to run L4s with the absolute minimum skill set, jump into a Jaguar or Enyo.
Mavnas The Scope Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.12.03 07:33:00 - [13] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Why is Raven never the answer? CNR is the best damage dealer you can get for the required SP to fly it effectively: you don't even need T2 fittings if you can spend a little ISK on faction modules. Drake -> Tengu -> CNR -> Golem Of course if you want to run L4s with the absolute minimum skill set, jump into a Jaguar or Enyo. A Raven isn't a CNR now is it? CNR is good, raven is garbage. Raven doesn't give you enough to compensate for how much slower/less tanky it is than a drake or how much bigger cruise explosion radius is. (Plus all the SP you have to sink into large missile skills to catch up to where you were on your Drake/NH/Tengu.)
Rip Minner ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries 33	Posted - 2011.12.03 08:01:00 - [14] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Why is Raven never the answer? CNR is the best damage dealer you can get for the required SP to fly it effectively: you don't even need T2 fittings if you can spend a little ISK on faction modules. Drake -> Tengu -> CNR -> Golem Of course if you want to run L4s with the absolute minimum skill set, jump into a Jaguar or Enyo. There's realy no effective dps inc for Golem over CNR do to the fact that most level 4 missions shoot down at least one missile per volley. Effectively taking the Golem from 8x missiles to 6x missiles witch is the same for CNR going from 7x missiles to 6x missiles per effective volly. CNR is cheaper then the Golem and you dont need to train Maraurder skill at all for it. Edit: Moral of story is that whats great for Gunnery weapon systems is not so hot for Missiles.
Alaric Faelen Huge Midget Gynocology Research Bureau 13	Posted - 2011.12.03 08:34:00 - [15] - Quote I agree....Drake= win button for level 3 missions. I was able to run a ridiculous tank even with T1 modules and skills. With improved skills now after grinding lvl 3's for some time -- they're a joke. I was lazy too, omni-tanked and never once fitted specifically for each NPC type. Just slap on a bunch of shield and looted T1 launchers and ammo. If you bother to fit for each NPC, you'll be nigh immortal. I have just this one toon, and spread out skills to the four winds trying various things in Eve, so when I say mediocre skills carried me thru in that Drake, I ain't kidding. Now that I've gone back to bring up some critical skills, the Drake is just stupidly OP for level 3's. For SP point numbers, can't help ya. But the Drake can run a killer tank with a couple T1 low slot mods for PG and CPU, and be cap stable all day. Once you can fit T2 tank modules, you'll be bored with the Drake for PvE. It's why I am finally moving into BS hulls, because a level 3 in my still poorly fitted Drake is essentially an excersize in - Target, Orbit, Paint/Fire, next Target. Salvaging takes way longer than completing a mission. I still have poor drone skills and Warrior I's still stomp frigs in Lvl 3's without issue.
Caellach Marellus Nephtys Ventures inc 162	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:05:00 - [16] - Quote If you're looking at Ishtars you might as well just look at a Rail Dominix. The time spent training T2 large rails is saved not training Cruiser V and HAC (realistically, you'd only need Gal BS IV) You can rely on drone DPS first and take tjhe time to train your gunskills after and upship to Kronos or Vindicator.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 317	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:28:00 - [17] - Quote Rip Minner wrote: There's realy no effective dps inc for Golem over CNR do to the fact that most level 4 missions shoot down at least one missile per volley. Torpedoes have more hit points than cruise missiles, you don't lose an entire torpedo to defender missiles. For Golem users, it's better to fire torpedoes ungrouped: firing them grouped means the damage calculations will remove the amount of damage proportional to the amount of HP removed by the defender missile.
Esunisen Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous 15	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:33:00 - [18] - Quote I'm using Gila and have skills for Rattlesnake, but not money
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 41	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:50:00 - [19] - Quote I didnt really see anything about your current skills, so its hard to advise. This may be an abnormal answer, but what about courier missions? No they wouldn't be as fast as combat missions, but if your only goal is to gain standing, I would think during the month+ of training any of the above ships, you could be running courier missions and have your standing. Just a thought. -Edit- And yes, T2 Sentries/heavies are a lot of SP. The last skill alone for each is 17 days if you are mapped for it.
Kurogauna Silent Agony 2	Posted - 2011.12.03 13:55:00 - [20] - Quote The ships you listed aren't the best for rushing L4. My advice: Machariel. - direct damage. - 3 choose between EMP, THERM or EXPL (and some kin with T2 ammo) - great tracking (AC boat), can instapop frigs when they are afar - up to 60km range - over 1000 DPS (!!!) - can speed over 650ms with AB perma runing (!) - can perma tank 450 dps, enough to kill every thing before they hurt you

Ireland VonVicious Gurista Saints Assassin Confederacy 3	Posted - 2011.12.03 15:47:00 - [21] - Quote What you ask does not exist. You can't do L4's with as little sp as possible and still run them as fast as possible! Based on your list I would do the following: Train Gila since it will run with the cruiser skills both at 4. Get T2 heavy drones as Gila does not fuction well with sentries. This will be your low sp options that applies to your fastest ship. Train Rattlesnake as your fast as possible ship. (( This ship is very very sp intensive to fly well )) They use sentries well as they have mids for 2 drone omnis in the mids. They don't have to change hardners between missions and you can use it without evesurvival while still having 832 dps that goes long and short range. I have maxed mine and it out preforms maxed CNR and Golem on timed isk per hour sessions. Good luck in your ship pick!
OllieNorth Recidivists Incorporated 16	Posted - 2011.12.03 16:31:00 - [22] - Quote Mach takes a decent amount of SP to use effectively. I have to agree that Raven is probably the easiest low-SP runner. It's not the FASTEST, but you get to the point of being able to run pretty much every L4 with ease very quickly.
zatazon Z's Corp 3	Posted - 2011.12.03 16:44:00 - [23] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: What you ask does not exist. You can't do L4's with as little sp as possible and still run them as fast as possible! Based on your list I would do the following: Train Gila since it will run with the cruiser skills both at 4. Get T2 heavy drones as Gila does not fuction well with sentries. This will be your low sp options that applies to your fastest ship. Train Rattlesnake as your fast as possible ship. (( This ship is very very sp intensive to fly well )) They use sentries well as they have mids for 2 drone omnis in the mids. They don't have to change hardners between missions and you can use it without evesurvival while still having 832 dps that goes long and short range. I have maxed mine and it out preforms maxed CNR and Golem on timed isk per hour sessions. Good luck in your ship pick! As stated above, and based off your list the rattlesnake is by far the most SP intensive option. It is a great option once you have the skills trained for it but this is a long term ship. Again as stated above the Gila is a great option while you wait to get into a rattler if you decide to go this route since they both use most of the same skills.
Mavnas The Scope Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2011.12.03 17:40:00 - [24] - Quote Esunisen wrote: I'm using Gila and have skills for Rattlesnake, but not money I spent a month or two training for a Rattlesnake only to be horribly disappointed that without awesome skills it was hardly better than my NH, DPS-wise. Also my sentries kept getting targetted so I couldn't really AFK, I had to watch them.
ValentinaDLM Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria 410	Posted - 2011.12.03 19:19:00 - [25] - Quote If you just want the standing, and don't care about the LP or anything, then all you need is an executioner and 100k SP in ABs and stuff and do FW plexes. If you want to actually blitz L4s and reap the rewards then it would be hard to put a number on the SP needed, but I figure that in order to do it, you don't need much. Within 3 months my tengu alt was doing quite well. What I did before l4s was run an AML tengu fit, as I trained my skills up on that alt. Even in l3 missions there tends to be a fair amount of frigs, so I found t1 HML kinda bad, by the time I had standing to do l4 missions on my alt she had t2 HML, and the relevant skills up enough to kill most frigs in 1-4 volleys. That same alt also used a drake when away from the Tengu (I mission in low, high and null, but only have one tengu) and It really isn't all that slow to blitz missions with, and only now is my raven any real better than the drake at that, before I had t2 cruise missiles the drake was just hands down better. In any case you only have 3 Viable options IMO Sentry Gila, Tengu or Drake. The reason is very simple, those weapon systems aren't "linked". What I mean by this is that you can train t2 sentry drones, without having to train up every other type of drone. And many of the drone skills such as drone navigation aren't important with them. Likewise you can train t2 HML without training t2 rockets or t2 standard missles. This is probably one of the biggest drawbacks to turrets in order to t2 large guns, you have to train up the sizes before them,
MadMuppet Jarts 2	Posted - 2011.12.04 06:51:00 - [26] - Quote If you are grinding only for standing you might want to consider blitzing level 3 missions and then getting the storylines done with some investment in SP towards your social skills. Story line missions are were the real standing bonuses come from anyhow. Now, if you are looking for the whole package towards doing level 4 missions (isk, LP, salvage,etc) then I don't think you are going to have a 'low SP' answer. L4s do require good support skills. I fly mine mostly in a Machariel, but I've lost a couple to poor skills (expensive lesson) in the past. I know I'm over tanked with a cap stable Mach with 2x Invul IIs, an XL shield recharger II and an AB running all the time, but man, it is a wonderfully large frigate now (around 600m/s). I did do some missions in a Maelstrom with lower skills, but the top speed of the ship (what 110m/s?) made for LONG missions. I would recommend that your drone skills be at least high enough to use 5x T2 racial light drones as they are what are going to save your assets should the aggro get too high. You need them to drop the webs and scrams from the mission frigates so if it all goes to hell you can run away. Work up support skills for a good tank, no matter what you fly. Overtanking when learning is not bad in my opinion. I usually active shield tank with my mission ships and the ability to use the T2 modules is worth the training time (yes, you can use meta items but you should consider T2 as a minimum skill goal for support skills in my opinion) My Loki can tank a L4 with no problem (about 600m/s and 3 perm running Invul IIs or mission specifics), but the overall DPS sucks, so they take a while, especially with the shorter ranged weapons (you have to run the targets down). However in L3s I can blitz in the Loki and get done pretty quick which brings me back to the beginning of this article. Don't do what I did though, rush to level 4s without skills and get beat to a pulp. I threw a lot of money at a problem that really only required training time. (Tech 2 large guns took forever). -Mad Never trust a soldier wearing velcroed insignia While not perfect, I find the font at 13 pt and scaling at 90% to be pretty good, and overall better than the old font.-á
GreenSeed 6	Posted - 2011.12.04 07:21:00 - [27] - Quote Esunisen wrote: I'm using Gila and have skills for Rattlesnake, but not money the gila can already do as much as the rattler can do, but it has way smaller tank. that said, if youre not dying on a gila, why upgrade to a rattler? going from a t2 fitted gila to a faction/deadspace Gila will feel WAY nicer than going from a t2 fitted gila to a t2 fitted rattler. just saying. :p the sigradious jump is hueg
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 26	Posted - 2011.12.04 07:40:00 - [28] - Quote MadMuppet wrote: If you are grinding only for standing you might want to consider blitzing level 3 missions and then getting the storylines done with some investment in SP towards your social skills. Story line missions are were the real standing bonuses come from anyhow. with low skills I'd suggest you go that route, I'd get a drake while training for a tengu and blitz lv 3s, some stations with a bunch of lv3 agents in them, take a mission from each and go do it should get loads of storylines!
Arctur Vallfar Knights Adamant 3	Posted - 2011.12.04 20:12:00 - [29] - Quote Let's not forget a secondary option to maximize isk per hour with as little skill points as possible. Fleeting up with one or two people enhances survivability as well as profit in certain lights. All you really need is a pilot who has complementary skills. A player with little offensive skills/high defensive skills can tank a blob of npc enemies while another who focuses on offensive over defensive skills can chew them up or serve as a logistic vessel. There are plenty of variations. At any rate, It's a place to start if you have relatively low skill points and a friend or two. Sure makes salvaging a lot faster. Though I'd expect most people are only interested in flying solo or can't be fleeted up with a friend all day. Just remember that communication is key. I cant remember how many times my buddy warped ahead of my punching bag Dominix in his poorly fit Drake only to be nearly annihilated by npcs.
Caellach Marellus Nephtys Ventures inc 164	Posted - 2011.12.04 23:21:00 - [30] - Quote Should note if you really want to blitz missions properly, you'll fly Gunships not Drone ships.



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