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Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.03.15 20:10:29 -
[1] - Quote
Well, they are way too OP for 40kk. But for 100-120 kk they would be just the next tier ships comparing to assault frigates and destroyers. I think CCP should look into the problem. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1085
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Posted - 2015.03.15 20:12:55 -
[2] - Quote
pricing has nothing to do with CCP, if the ship itself is too overpowered (sentry ishtars) then they will rebalance.
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Odethia
Rondass
1
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Posted - 2015.03.15 20:18:36 -
[3] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:pricing has nothing to do with CCP, if the ship itself is too overpowered (sentry ishtars) then they will rebalance.
In a couple years. |
Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1482
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Posted - 2015.03.15 20:39:25 -
[4] - Quote
Pricing is not a valid balance method
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:09:54 -
[5] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:pricing has nothing to do with CCP, if the ship itself is too overpowered (sentry ishtars) then they will rebalance.
Why yu want to nerf Ishtar - it's under-used already. (a+ç -á-¦ -ƒ+ä-£ -í-¦)a+ç (a+ç -á-¦ -ƒ+ä-£ -í-¦)a+ç (a+ç -á-¦ -ƒ+ä-£ -í-¦)a+ç
Anny Jackson wrote:Well, they are way too OP for 40kk. But for 100-120 kk they would be just the next tier ships comparing to assault frigates and destroyers. I think CCP should look into the problem.
Confessor was 50 mil at one point, but then the Svipul diluted the supply.
if you go by this metric, all CCP can do is increase the materials needed for their production.
I SUSPECT THIS THREAD IS USED TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE ----ISHTAR--- PROBLEM. ( -í~ -£-û -í-¦) |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1294
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:12:18 -
[6] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method
A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:24:02 -
[7] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie.
The rise in the prices of battleships is not connected to their demand, nor the balance of powers currently in Eve.
An Armageddon now costs 180 mil ISK.
Welcome to Cruisers/Ishtars Online. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1295
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:39:37 -
[8] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie. The rise in the prices of battleships is not connected to their demand, nor the balance of powers currently in Eve. An Armageddon now costs 180 mil ISK. Welcome to Cruisers/Ishtars Online. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ
Missing the point, people choose their ships based on performance and cost. Given how powerful T3D are they are too cheap to use and lose. So either nerf them (this would be the preferred action) or change production cost so they're way more expensive. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:52:57 -
[9] - Quote
Fix sentry Ishtars first, ok. (a+ç -á-¦ -ƒ+ä-£ -í-¦)a+ç |
Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2015.03.15 22:26:20 -
[10] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie. The rise in the prices of battleships is not connected to their demand, nor the balance of powers currently in Eve. An Armageddon now costs 180 mil ISK. Welcome to Cruisers/Ishtars Online. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ Missing the point, people choose their ships based on performance and cost. Given how powerful T3D are they are too cheap to use and lose. So either nerf them (this would be the preferred action) or change production cost so they're way more expensive.
Exactly. And I don't wanna them being nerfed, so they will have to become more expensive. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
4068
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Posted - 2015.03.15 22:40:46 -
[11] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts.
The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Ezwal
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Orlacc
841
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Posted - 2015.03.16 00:02:38 -
[12] - Quote
Anny Jackson wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie. The rise in the prices of battleships is not connected to their demand, nor the balance of powers currently in Eve. An Armageddon now costs 180 mil ISK. Welcome to Cruisers/Ishtars Online. ßòª( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦)ßòñ Missing the point, people choose their ships based on performance and cost. Given how powerful T3D are they are too cheap to use and lose. So either nerf them (this would be the preferred action) or change production cost so they're way more expensive. Exactly. And I don't wanna them being nerfed, so they will have to become more expensive.
Meh I give up.
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4131
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Posted - 2015.03.16 00:29:59 -
[13] - Quote
Anny Jackson wrote:Well, they are way too OP for 40kk. But for 100-120 kk they would be just the next tier ships comparing to assault frigates and destroyers. I think CCP should look into the problem. Would it necessarily make any difference? No. The simplest (and quickest) solution would be to limit them to medium FW complexes. In any event, it's unlikely we'd see any rebalance until the Caldari and Gallante T3 Destroyers are released and they finish rebalancing the T3 Cruisers.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Valkin Mordirc
774
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Posted - 2015.03.16 01:05:15 -
[14] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie.
I've said this before, but If I sell an Ibis for 500bil that Ibis does not become better than a titan.
Maybe the new T3 dessies are OP
However saying that price is an indication of balance, is not true.
If price WAS an indication of balance and the new T3 Dessies are OP. You would the price of them skyrocketing as demand increases for newest OP ship.
I'm open to a counter statement but that's how I see it. May be wrong. *shrugs*
Also listing brand new ships that are getting a **** ton of kills also can not be used as evidence to the new ships being OP is because, well, they are new, people will want to use them even though they may not be as good as they are be perceived to be
Edit: But T3D's should NOT be let into small plexes.
#DeleteTheWeak
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2671
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Posted - 2015.03.16 16:12:15 -
[15] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie.
I have enough money to crap out faction/deadspace fit T3 destroyers for the rest of my life. I'm not even remotely unusual in this regard. |
God's Apples
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
576
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:27:15 -
[16] - Quote
Clearly ships are balanced based on price. A deimos is better than a thorax in every way except that the deimos has higher material requirements, thus making it cost more.
It was intentional that the t3 dessies cost roughly as much as dictors. CCP knew what sleeper loot went for, and made the material requirements such that they cost that much. I think they are much too strong given their price. It would be simple to double material requirements and make them cost twice as much, where they should cost.
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1487
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:08:40 -
[17] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Clearly ships are balanced based on price. A deimos is better than a thorax in every way except that the deimos has higher material requirements, thus making it cost more.
It was intentional that the t3 dessies cost roughly as much as dictors. CCP knew what sleeper loot went for, and made the material requirements such that they cost that much. I think they are much too strong given their price. It would be simple to double material requirements and make them cost twice as much, where they should cost. Please biomass and stop trying to make me poor
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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God's Apples
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
576
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Posted - 2015.03.17 03:26:23 -
[18] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:God's Apples wrote:Clearly ships are balanced based on price. A deimos is better than a thorax in every way except that the deimos has higher material requirements, thus making it cost more.
It was intentional that the t3 dessies cost roughly as much as dictors. CCP knew what sleeper loot went for, and made the material requirements such that they cost that much. I think they are much too strong given their price. It would be simple to double material requirements and make them cost twice as much, where they should cost. Please biomass and stop trying to make me poor
No now we make the jihad against the t3 dessy
"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1295
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Posted - 2015.03.17 07:56:38 -
[19] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Liam Inkuras wrote:Pricing is not a valid balance method A nice meme people keep spouting but its a lie. I have enough money to crap out faction/deadspace fit T3 destroyers for the rest of my life. I'm not even remotely unusual in this regard.
Your anecdotal "evidence" does not invalidate the basic logic that price is a factor. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1295
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:02:19 -
[20] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:No now we make the jihad against the t3 dessy
I'm starting to question's Fozzie's capability and/or willingness to create a balanced playing field. The Mordu's shipline, bubble immunity for Inties, super soft nerf for the Ishtar (clearly not enough), and now the T3D.
How could any sane person create these T3D and go "yup, looks balanced to me, that's not at all going to completely ruin the landscape". It makes no sense. These T3D need to be made AND more expensive AND need to be nerfed. |
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Valkin Mordirc
789
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Posted - 2015.03.17 08:16:12 -
[21] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:God's Apples wrote:No now we make the jihad against the t3 dessy I'm starting to question's Fozzie's capability and/or willingness to create a balanced playing field. The Mordu's shipline, bubble immunity for Inties, super soft nerf for the Ishtar (clearly not enough), and now the T3D. How could any sane person create these T3D and go "yup, looks balanced to me, that's not at all going to completely ruin the landscape". It makes no sense. These T3D need to be made AND more expensive AND need to be nerfed.
Job Security? =P
#DeleteTheWeak
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Dave Stark
7453
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Posted - 2015.03.17 09:54:53 -
[22] - Quote
price should only be a factor in balancing if you want to turn eve in to pay to win, which is the very reason why price isn't nor ever should be a factor in ship balance. |
Tung Yoggi
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
71
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:31:15 -
[23] - Quote
Material cost should rise by a bit, the gap between AF and D3s is a bit too narrow. Pricing is an issue, not really because it's quite cheap, but because AFs seem to suffer from it.
Powergrid should probably be shrunk a little, I don't see many reasons why oversized prop should almost be the default loadout.
Price is clearly a deciding factor when buying and flying a ship, as God's pointed out. No one cares if you are spacerich or poor, it's a matter of where your ship stands on the price scale, compared to other. And no, it doesn't make Eve pay to win, unless they implement a kiting autopilot that kills you while keeping range and then post automated #rekt messages in local (100 AURUM for 24h). Expensive ships die everyday against much cheaper opponents.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1296
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:35:52 -
[24] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:price should only be a factor in balancing if you want to turn eve in to pay to win, which is the very reason why price isn't nor ever should be a factor in ship balance.
There's a difference between the utopian "more expensive shouldn't necessarily be overall better" and the reality that people are willing to pay for performance. No one would fly a DD if it were as good as a normal T1 frig while retaining its cost, and not many people would fly it if it would cost 400 mil.
So yes: cost (through production cost or scarcity) IS a factor, it always has been, and stating otherwise is just meme spouting nonsense. |
Tarko Auduin
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.03.17 17:09:28 -
[25] - Quote
You actually want a ship to cost more?
Gtfo. Now.
Reading between the lines, I'm seeing "I can't fly a t3 dessie, please make it so I don't have to fight them as often" |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1298
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Posted - 2015.03.17 17:33:44 -
[26] - Quote
Tarko Auduin wrote:You actually want a ship to cost more?
Gtfo. Now.
Reading between the lines, I'm seeing "I can't fly a t3 dessie, please make it so I don't have to fight them as often"
Given your.... logic I doubt you have the IQ to read in the first place. |
Tarko Auduin
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.03.17 17:41:24 -
[27] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Tarko Auduin wrote:You actually want a ship to cost more?
Gtfo. Now.
Reading between the lines, I'm seeing "I can't fly a t3 dessie, please make it so I don't have to fight them as often" Given your.... logic I doubt you have the IQ to read in the first place.
How so? I don't think I've EVER seen someone complain a ship is too cheap, mostly because the immediate response is "then why the **** aren't you in one?"
So please, enlighten me as to where my comment went wrong |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1298
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Posted - 2015.03.17 18:02:12 -
[28] - Quote
QED |
Tarko Auduin
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.03.17 19:48:25 -
[29] - Quote
oh boy, you sure showed me I was wrong... |
Arthur Aihaken
Narada
4131
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:19:18 -
[30] - Quote
The price of T3 Destroyers is fine; it's the price of anything larger that needs to start coming down.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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