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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:00:00 -
[1]
Reading verious threads on suicide ganking led me to thinking about really secure means of transport for ultra valuable items. What is the ultimate form of secure transport ?
Imagine the following scenario - extreme I admit. You are in possession of one or more small items, say HAC BPOs worth multiple billions. These must be moved 10 jumps thro empire immediately and you have no instas. A hostile force is aware of the transport but you are not wardecced, however suicide ganks by forces upto multiple battleship strength are likely.
What would you fly - any t1 or t2 non-capital, non faction ship. Any t1 or t2 fitting but no officer or faction. From a purely defnsive point of view what works best - an ultra heavy tank ?. ECM ? Incredible speed?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/10/2006 12:09:00
Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/10/2006 12:07:50
Covert ops/recon ships are about as secure as you can get. Just not on autopilot :). A falcon will get up to about 600m3. The pilgrim can do even better, 1056m3.
It's hard enough catching one in 0.0 when you've got bubbles and interdictors available, but through empire it may as well be impossible.
Even if you don't need the size, you can fit a few stabs and a shield tank (passive, it won't be online when if you're abruptly decloaked) which'll give you a chance to warp off.
Of course, you have much better odds if your route isn't predictable - lots of ceptors orbiting a particular gate can make moving a covert through challenging. In that situation, you might be better off with a 'ceptor, since your gate exposure is that much lower. Or maybe a MWD covops, so you can 'finish' the run if you get decloaked.
If of course, you have lots of pilots on hand, a tanked up ship, e.g. vulture with lots of resists covered by a pack of basilisks I reckon would end up pretty near invulnerable to a suicide gank.
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Enotz
Amarr
Terminus Est Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:29:00 -
[3]
I'd have the corp fly a bunch of the same type of ship, same name, and place the BPO(s) randomly.
Lots harder to suicide gank when there's 20 targets, all of whom could have the goods ^^
If trusting someone else isn't an option, then probably covops; or something with a great tank. You could also use the gang approach, and have them remote armor rep you. Just have them warp a second before you, then start locking as soon as you show up. If anyone fires, use the reps; hopefully it would last long enough for CONCORD to kill them.
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JustBlaze
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:32:00 -
[4]
HE HAS AN EXPENSIVE BPO! KILL HIM!!!!11
^^
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Diehard Si
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:46:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Enotz
I'd have the corp fly a bunch of the same type of ship, same name, and place the BPO(s) randomly.
Lots harder to suicide gank when there's 20 targets, all of whom could have the goods ^^
If trusting someone else isn't an option, then probably covops; or something with a great tank. You could also use the gang approach, and have them remote armor rep you. Just have them warp a second before you, then start locking as soon as you show up. If anyone fires, use the reps; hopefully it would last long enough for CONCORD to kill them.
maybe also some small secure containers in the hold as well so they won't know who has what.
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Lets face it, people that use the word 'noob' are blatantly either 12 or with more friends on the internet than in real life! |
Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: JustBlaze
HE HAS AN EXPENSIVE BPO! KILL HIM!!!!11
^^
Much as I would like to be the proud owner of a nice shiny T2 BPO this is all pure fantasy. One quick look at my characters age would let you know that I dont have anything valuable :)
The discussions on suicide ganking made me wonder just how hard to kill you could make a ship if short term survival was your only priority. My first thought was a Raven:
MWD
1 XL Booster
1 Larger extender
active, em, themal and kinetic hardeners
1 Invulnerabilty field
2 1600mm 2EANM DCU
all T2 or named
Switch on the hardeners and booster and charge for the gate
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:50:00 -
[7]
Cloakers are great, transport ships with a mean tank should work too.
Other than that, I know you said non-capital, but a freighter is a very good option too since no attacking force could destroy one before getting their ships blown up by our friends at CONCORD.
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High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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Fenderson
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.17 12:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Diehard Si
maybe also some small secure containers in the hold as well so they won't know who has what.
Unfortunately this no longer works. Ship scanners will show the contents of a container.
And really the best defence is instas. I dont understand why your hypothetical would rule out instas. If you dont have them and your transporting something that valuable, get off your lazy duff and go make some.
As far as ships, go with a covops frig with MWD, stabs, and passive shield tank. Next best thing to covops would be a ceptor. If you have instas you just need to be able to warp away fast and the instas take care of all other potential risks since theres no bubbles or dictors in empire.
*real men structure tank* |
Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:04:00 -
[9]
I do agree - instas are the best method for transport and you would always use them in reality. However what I am trying to get to is how would you go about making as secure a transport vessel as is possible with current EVE technology - what is the single most "suicide gank proof" ship and fitting?
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Saundra Fayid
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:07:00 -
[10]
I prefer Interceptor simply because you have all kinds of wierdos with strange bubble placement theories which does indeed require you to hit the ol MWD every so often.
But you can never discount the benefit of a Covert Ops cloak capable ship.
what I really want is a jump capable freighter...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:14:00 -
[11]
In high-sec, without instas (*cough* why the heck no instas?), it's all about how many enemies you encounter. If the enemy is willing to risk, say 20 Ravens, I doubt you have a chance to "escape" regardless of what you might be flying.
So I guess it's more of a "survive as long as possible" thing, so Concord can wipe them out... ECM or any other things that are considered "fighting back"... it means you can't go through the gate, and have to stick around in the system.
I guess a passive shield-tanked Vulture in a two-man gang would be your best bet. The other in gang, just about any ship, preferably something fast, just in case you DO get destroyed. On the Vulture ? Two T2 large shield extenders, four active T2 hardners/invuls (two EM, one EXP, one invul sounds best) and DC+SPRs in lows. You'd have to pound this ship with well over 2k DPS for a couple of minutes to break it, about enough time for Concord to wipe out the "suicidegankfleet", I guess (or, I hope).
Other than that, a freighter will do fine. I mean, they won't STEAL anything (not with current rules anyway), so best case scenario is they inflict "financial" damage on you (by destroying the freighter AND its cargo).
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Always question everything. Including yourself. |
qrac
Caldari
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:29:00 -
[12]
There are ways to make your ship unscannable but since they already know what you carry your best bet is to maximize your hp.
Covert ops and interceptors will not cut it in empire because of the jump queues.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: qrac
There are ways to make your ship unscannable
Yeah, ABOUT that... I thought so myself, that it is possible.
Like, for instance, containers or courier mission plastic wrap or such.
Apparently, you always get the exact (detailed) cargo manifest of the scanned ship, regardless of what it carries.
The only way to be truly "unscannable" is to not get targetted in the first place, AFAIK.
Got any other ways ?
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Always question everything. Including yourself. |
D'Arkon Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:33:00 -
[14]
For the people that are mentioning big tanks on w/e ship is used: Suicide ganks are basically and alpha strike and maybe one more salvo. I would think the biggest priority would be an MWD and then as many hit points as possible to survive the alpha strike. Same concept as when fitting for fleet combat really.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:46:00 -
[15]
5 accounts, 5 freighters.
Fly them in convoy, change the freighter carrying the BPO every system with a station.
Freighters can't be scanned.
No-one can suicide 5 freighters.
Sorted.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:47:00 -
[16]
well, a freighter, a covert ops frig or a nano'ed prowler.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Taipan Gedscho
Taipan Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:48:00 -
[17]
how about a dominix?
2xt2 invul, 3xt2 large extenders
damage control, exp/kin/therm hardeners, 1xadaptive nano, 2x1600 RT plate
you could ditch one plate for a repper.
what would you need to kill THAT in highsec?
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qrac
Caldari
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.17 13:48:00 -
[18]
Edited by: qrac on 17/10/2006 13:48:53
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: qrac
There are ways to make your ship unscannable
Yeah, ABOUT that... I thought so myself, that it is possible.
Like, for instance, containers or courier mission plastic wrap or such.
Apparently, you always get the exact (detailed) cargo manifest of the scanned ship, regardless of what it carries.
The only way to be truly "unscannable" is to not get targetted in the first place, AFAIK.
Got any other ways ?
I thought courier mission plastic wraps couldn't be scanned? I'm pretty certain that they don't provoke customs at least if somebody set up a courier mission with drugs in it.
You can still make your ship unscannable but since it's possibly an exploit I'm not going to mention it here.
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Helenae
GandY Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.17 14:03:00 -
[19]
A complete bustard passive setup (but the damage control) can be :
Shield : 3600
EM: 68%
Them: 81%
Kin: 72%
Exp: 62%
Armor : 2500
EM: 78%
Them: 89%
Kin: 83%
Exp: 60%
Structure : 4400
EM: 58%
Them: 58%
Kin: 58%
Exp: 58%
And i dont have maxed skill for the passive amplifiers. But you can easily get more. If you have to move things in empire, suicide gank will have to be really, really, strong to break you before concord destroy them...
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Areconus
Caldari
Cereal Killerz
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.17 23:24:00 -
[20]
Wouldn't a cov ops be the absolute best choice? Once you go through a gate, you can cloak on the other side with *little to no sign on overview*, and warp cloaked, so if you got pulled into a bubble, you would still be cloaked and noone would know you were even in the bubble correct?
Gloria Stitz-
"Try not to bring reality in to these forums
Otherwise we might take the game seriously" |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.17 23:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Freighters can't be scanned.
Freighters don't dump cargo in space when destroyed for the time being.
But freighters CAN be scanned.
Originally by: qrac
I thought courier mission plastic wraps couldn't be scanned?
You can still make your ship unscannable but since it's possibly an exploit I'm not going to mention it here.
So I thought too. But feel free to test yourself, all you need is a friend (or a trial alt) to pick up the package.
If you know of a way to make yourself unscannable, please bug report it.
Originally by: Areconus
Wouldn't a cov ops be the absolute best choice? Once you go through a gate, you can cloak on the other side with *little to no sign on overview*, and warp cloaked, so if you got pulled into a bubble, you would still be cloaked and noone would know you were even in the bubble correct?
If you get pulled into a bubble, you land in the MIDDLE of the bubble, where the emitter lies, and you auto-decloak because there's an object closer than 2km (the bubble emitter). Of course, bubbles can not be placed in highsec, and this was a highsec secure (anti-suicider) transport question.
Also, even in highsec, if you're "stuck" at a gate waiting for the queue, you are NOT cloaked either (the 2km rule).
Kaboom you go, and even quite easily.
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All in all, either heavily armored T2 ships, or freighters. That's the best bet so far.
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Always question everything. Including yourself. |
Orvas Dren
Gallente
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.18 00:45:00 -
[22]
Quote:
If you get pulled into a bubble, you land in the MIDDLE of the bubble, where the emitter lies, and you auto-decloak because there's an object closer than 2km (the bubble emitter). Of course, bubbles can not be placed in highsec, and this was a highsec secure (anti-suicider) transport question.
I have never once been decloaked by being pulled into a bubble, it only ever gets me at the edge, you cannot however recloak in a bubble. The edge of a bubble does not decloak you unless the bubble placer was good and layed a can field to decloak you... Just don't do that around MC, they petition the cans on the basis of trying to create lag... 
EVE-Mail me for custom signature work. Price Negotiable |
Enotz
Amarr
Terminus Est Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.10.18 01:49:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Fly them in convoy, change the freighter carrying the BPO every system with a station.
Unless they already screwed up, changing the one with BPO in it won't really do anything but waste time.
Interceptors are good too, just MWD to the gate. With a good MWD, you can get to the gate in a few seconds, so if anyone DOES hit you, they don't get to do much damage. Just be sure to have some resisting crap fitted for safety
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Dahak2150
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Posted - 2006.10.18 01:49:00 -
[24]
Low volume, go for an inty or the cloaking recons. Cloak could be risky though, there tends to be a lot of traffic around empire gates.
High volume, a transport/blockade, or a freighter (the ultimate nyah-nyah, if they blow you up to get it, nobody gets it.)
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My sig is boring. |
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